ForeverYoung436
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Besides which, the 1988 Declaration is much better known (and even recognized).
I will not Bow!
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Besides which, the 1988 Declaration is much better known (and even recognized).
Besides which, it was the Arabs themselves that shut down the first so-called All-Palestine Government, as I recall.
Months too late, and shut down by your own side, no less.
Duh.
It's obvious to even the most devoted partisans that the Arabs were simply out-maneuvered and out-smarted and out-classed, in all important respects, in 1948, and that there are no Do-Over squares on that game-board.
Better luck in the next lifetime...
P F Tinmore
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Palestine's declaration did none of that.
In simpler terms; The Jews had their shit together. The Arabs didn't
Exactly.
The September 1948 Arab Declaration did exactly that; claiming lands that had been claimed months before by somebody else.
There is no substitute for timely filing.
The Arabs learned that lesson the hard way.
And the silly bastards are still playing whiny-***** over it, 65 years later.
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P F Tinmore
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And your point is?
You are the one who is misleading. The mandate was assigned to Palestine. It had no land or borders of it own.
Palestine's 1948 declaration of independence in 1948 did not include any Israeli land.
Israel did not accept resolution 181.
There was a war inside Palestine at the time but how did that negate their right to declare their state?
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
I have to chuckle.
Where did you get this notion? You keep saying that, but I don't quite understand your basis for this contention. The State of Israel accepted it in 1948, and participated in the implementation process.
Most Respectfully,
R
I have to chuckle.
(COMMENT)
Where did you get this notion? You keep saying that, but I don't quite understand your basis for this contention. The State of Israel accepted it in 1948, and participated in the implementation process.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
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By the time Israel declared independence it had already violated the proposed borders, the international city of Jerusalem, and the rights of the non Jewish population.
What part of resolution 181 did it accept?
ForeverYoung436
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Israel acquired more land as a result of the 1948-1949 War, not before. As for Jerusalem, there has never been an "international" city in the history of the world. Mecca and the Vatican are not international cities.
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
Oh come now.
The State of Israel did not come into effect until midnight 14/15 May. I could not have possibly violated any border prior to that because Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State, did not come into effect until then. On the other hand, the Arab Legion, with the direct protection of the Mandatory (UK) was partially pre-positioned by then across the Jordan River.
The Jewish State in Resolution 181(II) as defined in the Resolution was accepted.
It should be noted, since you mentioned the Internationalization of Jerusalem, that it was the Arab Legion that destroyed the Jewish Quarter.
Most Respectfully,
R
Oh come now.
(COMMENT)
The State of Israel did not come into effect until midnight 14/15 May. I could not have possibly violated any border prior to that because Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State, did not come into effect until then. On the other hand, the Arab Legion, with the direct protection of the Mandatory (UK) was partially pre-positioned by then across the Jordan River.
The Jewish State in Resolution 181(II) as defined in the Resolution was accepted.
It should be noted, since you mentioned the Internationalization of Jerusalem, that it was the Arab Legion that destroyed the Jewish Quarter.
Most Respectfully,
R
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It all hinges on what you define as Palestine in regards to the mandate, do you include the land of trans Jordan that did not exist when the mandate was begun. The land of Syria and Iraq which was also part of Palestine and part of Lebanon which was also in Palestine. Or do you define Palestine as that parcel of land dedicated by the UN in the partition plan and UN res 181. If you consider all of Palestine as being the gowl then the HoAP received 90% of that land area with Israel getting a scant 10%. The Jews accepted the partition plan and went ahead with the terms of declaring independence.
This part of 181 spells out why the HoAP are not in possession of a nation, and it is all down to their greed.
If by 1 April 1948 a Provisional Council of Government cannot be selected for either of the States, or, if selected, cannot carry out its functions, the Commission shall communicate that fact to the Security Council for such action with respect to that State as the Security Council may deem proper, and to the Secretary-General for communication to the Members of the United Nations.
Now Israel complied and showed it had a Provisional Council of Government, but the HoAP decided to rely on force to steal all the land. This led to a massive defeat of the Hoap and the shame of being humiliated by their former slaves.
To declare independence Israel had to fully accept the terms of 181 under this clause
C. DECLARATION
A declaration shall be made to the United Nations by the Provisional Government of each proposed State before independence. It shall contain, inter alia, the following clauses:
General Provision
The stipulations contained in the Declaration are recognized as fundamental laws of the State and no law, regulation or official action shall conflict or interfere with these stipulations, nor shall any law, regulation or official action prevail over them.
Chapter 1: Holy Places, Religious Buildings and Sites
Existing rights in respect of Holy Places and religious buildings or sites shall not be denied or impaired.
In so far as Holy Places are concerned, the liberty of access, visit, and transit shall be guaranteed, in conformity with existing rights, to all residents and citizen of the other State and of the City of Jerusalem, as well as to aliens, without distinction as to nationality, subject to requirements of national security, public order and decorum.
Similarly, freedom of worship shall be guaranteed in conformity with existing rights, subject to the maintenance of public order and decorum.
Holy Places and religious buildings or sites shall be preserved. No act shall be permitted which may in an way impair their sacred character. If at any time it appears to the Government that any particular Holy Place, religious, building or site is in need of urgent repair, the Government may call upon the community or communities concerned to carry out such repair. The Government may carry it out itself at the expense of the community or community concerned if no action is taken within a reasonable time.
No taxation shall be levied in respect of any Holy Place, religious building or site which was exempt from taxation on the date of the creation of the State.
No change in the incidence of such taxation shall be made which would either discriminate between the owners or occupiers of Holy Places, religious buildings or sites, or would place such owners or occupiers in a position less favourable in relation to the general incidence of taxation than existed at the time of the adoption of the Assembly's recommendations.
The Governor of the City of Jerusalem shall have the right to determine whether the provisions of the Constitution of the State in relation to Holy Places, religious buildings and sites within the borders of the State and the religious rights appertaining thereto, are being properly applied and respected, and to make decisions on the basis of existing rights in cases of disputes which may arise between the different religious communities or the rites of a religious community with respect to such places, buildings and sites. He shall receive full co-operation and such privileges and immunities as are necessary for the exercise of his functions in the State.
Chapter 2: Religious and Minority Rights
Freedom of conscience and the free exercise of all forms of worship, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, shall be ensured to all.
No discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants on the ground of race, religion, language or sex.
All persons within the jurisdiction of the State shall be entitled to equal protection of the laws.
The family law and personal status of the various minorities and their religious interests, including endowments, shall be respected.
Except as may be required for the maintenance of public order and good government, no measure shall be taken to obstruct or interfere with the enterprise of religious or charitable bodies of all faiths or to discriminate against any representative or member of these bodies on the ground of his religion or nationality.
The State shall ensure adequate primary and secondary education for the Arab and Jewish minority, respectively, in its own language and its cultural traditions.
The right of each community to maintain its own schools for the education of its own members in its own language, while conforming to such educational requirements of a general nature as the State may impose, shall not be denied or impaired. Foreign educational establishments shall continue their activity on the basis of their existing rights.
No restriction shall be imposed on the free use by any citizen of the State of any language in private intercourse, in commerce, in religion, in the Press or in publications of any kind, or at public meetings.(3)
No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish State (by a Jew in the Arab State)(4) shall be allowed except for public purposes. In all cases of expropriation full compensation as fixed by the Supreme Court shall be said previous to dispossession.
Chapter 3: Citizenship, International Conventions and Financial Obligations
1. Citizenship Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights. Persons over the age of eighteen years may opt, within one year from the date of recognition of independence of the State in which they reside, for citizenship of the other State, providing that no Arab residing in the area of the proposed Arab State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Jewish State and no Jew residing in the proposed Jewish State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Arab State. The exercise of this right of option will be taken to include the wives and children under eighteen years of age of persons so opting.
Arabs residing in the area of the proposed Jewish State and Jews residing in the area of the proposed Arab State who have signed a notice of intention to opt for citizenship of the other State shall be eligible to vote in the elections to the Constituent Assembly of that State, but not in the elections to the Constituent Assembly of the State in which they reside.
2. International conventions
The State shall be bound by all the international agreements and conventions, both general and special, to which Palestine has become a party. Subject to any right of denunciation provided for therein, such agreements and conventions shall be respected by the State throughout the period for which they were concluded.
Any dispute about the applicability and continued validity of international conventions or treaties signed or adhered to by the mandatory Power on behalf of Palestine shall be referred to the International Court of Justice in accordance with the provisions of the Statute of the Court.
3. Financial obligations
The State shall respect and fulfil all financial obligations of whatever nature assumed on behalf of Palestine by the mandatory Power during the exercise of the Mandate and recognized by the State. This provision includes the right of public servants to pensions, compensation or gratuities.
These obligations shall be fulfilled through participation in the Joint Economic Board in respect of those obligations applicable to Palestine as a whole, and individually in respect of those applicable to, and fairly apportionable between, the States.
A Court of Claims, affiliated with the Joint Economic Board, and composed of one member appointed by the United Nations, one representative of the United Kingdom and one representative of the State concerned, should be established. Any dispute between the United Kingdom and the State respecting claims not recognized by the latter should be referred to that Court.
Commercial concessions granted in respect of any part of Palestine prior to the adoption of the resolution by the General Assembly shall continue to be valid according to their terms, unless modified by agreement between the concession-holders and the State.
Chapter 4: Miscellaneous Provisions
The provisions of chapters 1 and 2 of the declaration shall be under the guarantee of the United Nations, and no modifications shall be made in them without the assent of the General Assembly of the United Nations. Any Member of the United Nations shall have the right to bring to the attention of the General Assembly any infraction or danger of infraction of any of these stipulations, and the General Assembly may thereupon make such recommendations as it may deem proper in the circumstances.
Any dispute relating to the application or interpretation of this declaration shall be referred, at the request of either party, to the International Court of Justice, unless the parties agree to another mode of settlement.
YOU LOSE TO HISTORICAL FACT AND PROVEN TESTIMONY
The parts that mattered of course, and the UN accepted their right to be a sovereign nation.
Now unless you have verifiable evidence of your claims above I request you with draw them
In actual fact Israel lost land due to the 1948/1949 war and did not reclaim it until 1967.
ForeverYoung436
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Under the Partition Plan, Israel would've been even narrower than the Armistice Lines of 1949.
pbel
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General Assembly Votes Overwhelmingly to Accord Palestine 'Non ...
https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/.../ga11317.doc.ht...*
https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/ga11317.doc.htm
United Nations
The international community should use influence on Israel, he said, to compel it to immediately stop all its unilateral policies which resulted in the freezing of peace negotiations. The United Arab Emirates would continue its political support and development aid to the Palestinian Authority, led by President Abbas. Israel must immediately end all its aggressive policies against the Palestinian people, and fully withdraw from all Palestinian and Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, the Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied Lebanese territories.
Nov 29, 2012 - Non-Member Observer State' Status in United Nations ..... He went on to say that Palestine did not seek to delegitimize a State established .... an independent Palestine with East Jerusalem as its capital within its 1967 borders.
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ForeverYoung436
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Let's see...return the Golan Heights back to Syria, while it's in the midst of a civil war with the Butcher of Baghdad slaughtering thousands of people. Very practical.
Lebanon...no troops there since 2000.
Gaza...while it's ruled by Hamas, which denies Israel's existence. Wait a minute, Israel withdrew in 2005.
West Bank...still in negotiations.
East Jerusalem...no way. Remembered by a broken glass at every Jewish wedding.
P F Tinmore
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Come on yourself, Rocco. Could you have possibly come up with a more stupid excuse than that?
Huh??? What excuse are you talking about? He's stating a fact.
I notice you always ignore Israels declaration of independence. You never mention it, and when someone else does, you change the subject or say something not related to it. Why is that?
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