I will not Bow!

[ForeverYoung436]

You can of course prove that Palestine became a member of the UN at the 1967 borders that were never mutually agreed, thus breaching the UN charter ?

The 67 borders are very nebulous, indeed. They are, in fact, the 1949 UN armistice lines. This is the definition of these lines:

2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

It is curious then that the UN recognizes Israel using the armistice lines to designate its location.

It is important to note that the armistice lines do not merely separate Israel from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip but also separate Israel from Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. In many cases the armistice lines are drawn on top of Palestine's international borders with its neighbors.

The UN's own map of Israel has a disclaimer in the lower, left.

Yeah, so what? North and South Korea are also separated by armistice lines. Does that mean they don't exist?

Notice how the map says "Former Palestine Mandate".

 

[toastman]

That is obviously not a current map of Israel, as it does not show the international boundaries between Israel & Egypt and Israel & Jordan

 

[P F Tinmore]

The 67 borders are very nebulous, indeed. They are, in fact, the 1949 UN armistice lines. This is the definition of these lines:



It is curious then that the UN recognizes Israel using the armistice lines to designate its location.

It is important to note that the armistice lines do not merely separate Israel from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip but also separate Israel from Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. In many cases the armistice lines are drawn on top of Palestine's international borders with its neighbors.

The UN's own map of Israel has a disclaimer in the lower, left.

Yeah, so what? North and South Korea are also separated by armistice lines. Does that mean they don't exist?

Notice how the map says "Former Palestine Mandate".

It is interesting that the UN would use that term when the UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Yeah, so what? North and South Korea are also separated by armistice lines. Does that mean they don't exist?

Notice how the map says "Former Palestine Mandate".

It is interesting that the UN would use that term when the UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine.

South Sudan became independent only last year. So it's not too late for Palestine on the West Bank, if they start acting normal. But they ARE Arabs, so that's too much to ask.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Notice how the map says "Former Palestine Mandate".

It is interesting that the UN would use that term when the UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine.

South Sudan became independent only last year. So it's not too late for Palestine on the West Bank, if they start acting normal. But they ARE Arabs, so that's too much to ask.

Palestine does not need anyone's permission to be a state.

 

[toastman]

It is interesting that the UN would use that term when the UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine.

South Sudan became independent only last year. So it's not too late for Palestine on the West Bank, if they start acting normal. But they ARE Arabs, so that's too much to ask.

Palestine does not need anyone's permission to be a state.

Ah yes, the great state of Palestine can do whatever they want

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

That's right.

Palestine does not need anyone's permission to be a state.

(COMMENT)

Just so long as it doesn't interfere with the rights, sovereignty and territorial integrity of any adjacent country; to include Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

Yeah, so what? North and South Korea are also separated by armistice lines. Does that mean they don't exist?

Notice how the map says "Former Palestine Mandate".

It is interesting that the UN would use that term when the UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine.

I'm also positive that if I ask you for a link to this claim, you will provide me a link to something else. But, I'll bite.

Link ?

 

[Phoenall]

By the way, Switzerland is a non-member observer State...the same status as the present Palestinian State to the 67 borders.

You can of course prove that Palestine became a member of the UN at the 1967 borders that were never mutually agreed, thus breaching the UN charter ?

The 67 borders are very nebulous, indeed. They are, in fact, the 1949 UN armistice lines. This is the definition of these lines:

2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

It is curious then that the UN recognizes Israel using the armistice lines to designate its location.

It is important to note that the armistice lines do not merely separate Israel from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip but also separate Israel from Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. In many cases the armistice lines are drawn on top of Palestine's international borders with its neighbors.

The UN's own map of Israel has a disclaimer in the lower, left.

Take a look at your map again as it does not convey what you claim it does. It shows the international borders of Israel inside which is the west bank and gaza. Once again you produce evidence that does not support your fantasy world one iota

 

[Phoenall]

Yeah, so what? North and South Korea are also separated by armistice lines. Does that mean they don't exist?

Notice how the map says "Former Palestine Mandate".

It is interesting that the UN would use that term when the UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine.

Try again as it states boundary not borders, setting in stone once again that it was an area and not a nation.

 

[Phoenall]

It is interesting that the UN would use that term when the UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine.

South Sudan became independent only last year. So it's not too late for Palestine on the West Bank, if they start acting normal. But they ARE Arabs, so that's too much to ask.

Palestine does not need anyone's permission to be a state.

Just the land owners of the land they are claiming as theirs, I wonder if they will pay for this land or just steal it ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Notice how the map says "Former Palestine Mandate".

It is interesting that the UN would use that term when the UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine.

I'm also positive that if I ask you for a link to this claim, you will provide me a link to something else. But, I'll bite.

Link ?

I have many times. Would you like the opportunity to ignore them again?

 

[toastman]

It is interesting that the UN would use that term when the UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine.

I'm also positive that if I ask you for a link to this claim, you will provide me a link to something else. But, I'll bite.

Link ?

I have many times. Would you like the opportunity to ignore them again?

I might be wrong, but I remember the link you posted several times was not consistent with the claim. I didn't ignore it

 

[P F Tinmore]

South Sudan became independent only last year. So it's not too late for Palestine on the West Bank, if they start acting normal. But they ARE Arabs, so that's too much to ask.

Palestine does not need anyone's permission to be a state.

Just the land owners of the land they are claiming as theirs, I wonder if they will pay for this land or just steal it ?

Palestine's declaration of independence in 1948 was on its own land inside its own international borders. It did not claim the land of others.

 

[toastman]

Palestine does not need anyone's permission to be a state.

Just the land owners of the land they are claiming as theirs, I wonder if they will pay for this land or just steal it ?

Palestine's declaration of independence in 1948 was on its own land inside its own international borders. It did not claim the land of others.

and here we go again.......

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm also positive that if I ask you for a link to this claim, you will provide me a link to something else. But, I'll bite.

Link ?

I have many times. Would you like the opportunity to ignore them again?

I might be wrong, but I remember the link you posted several times was not consistent with the claim. I didn't ignore it

2. This Agreement, having been negotiated and concluded in pursuance of the resolution of the Security Council of 16 November 1948 calling for the establishment of an armistice in order to eliminate the threat to the peace in Palestine and to facilitate the transition frown the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved, except as provided in paragraph 3 of this Article.

1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949

All four armistice agreements say the same thing.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Palestine does not need anyone's permission to be a state."

True.

What they need is a time-machine, to travel back to May 14, 1948, and to declare Statehood and Independence on the very day that the Mandate expired.

What they need is a time-machine, to travel back to 1947-1948, and to prevent their younger selves (and parents and grandparents) from abandoning their homes and lands, and to stand their ground rather than running away.

What they need is a time-machine, to travel back to 1967, and to prevent their Jordanian and Egyptian and Syrian brethren and co-religionists and masters from attacking Israel, and giving Israel the excuse to capture lands and to hold them as spoils of war.

What they need is a time-machine, to un-do multiple Bad Decisions, in choosing not to negotiate and compromise with the Israelis, while the Israelis were still in a mood to compromise.

What they need is a time-machine, to prevent themselves from conducting years-long campaigns of terror-bombing within Israel, and to prevent their miscreant sympathizers from conducting even more horrific terror acts in their name; in full or in part (Achille Lauro, Munich, Entebbe, 9-11, London Tube) - attaching to them forevermore the label: Terrorists.

What they need is a time-machine, to prevent themselves from gaining a reputation for saturating their childrens TV and radio programming and media with hatred and sugar-plum visions of godhead-rewarded martyrdom - repelling sane minds on the outside.

What they need are large tracts of arable, viable contiguous land, with access to water and waterways, trade routes, infrastructure, etc., rather than two disconnected and rapidly shrinking pockets of population; one of which (the West Bank) loses more ground every day, and which, itself, is already fragmented into scores of pockets within the older pocket.

What they need are leaders (and an electorate smart enough to put them into office) who accept the defeats of the past, who begin their work from that point moving forward, who swear-off the use of violence, who commit to peaceful co-existence, who concede Jerusalem, and who work towards dividing Old Palestine into two contiguous tracts of land; one for the Jews, one for the Muslims; both with access to water and resources and trade-routes and the like; like they should have done back in 1948.

What they need is the sanity to recognize the error of their ways (methods, etc.) and to commit to doing it differently, moving forward; convincing everyone (most importantly, the Israelis) that they mean what they say about a change-of-heart, and making it stick.

What the Palestinians need is a miracle.

Given their nature and their intransigence and political immaturity and foolishness, they will not get one.

 

[toastman]

Nothing here confirms what you said:

UN confirmed that Palestine and its international borders were still there after the mandate left Palestine

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is misleading.

Palestine does not need anyone's permission to be a state.

Just the land owners of the land they are claiming as theirs, I wonder if they will pay for this land or just steal it ?

Palestine's declaration of independence in 1948 was on its own land inside its own international borders. It did not claim the land of others.

(COMMENT)

The Arab September 1948 Claim comes several months after the May 1948 Declaration by the Jewish People.

The Arab claim tries to establish sovereignty over the whole of the remainder of the former Mandatory; to include that which was already declared independent under the right to self-determination by the Jewish people. The Jewish declaration was made earlier in time (first), in cooperation with and in accordance with the steps preparatory to independence by the General Assembly.

The Jewish declaration was achieved and coordinated by peaceful means and processes. The Arab declaration was made during the conflict in which 5 Arab Armies attempted to take by force that which was denied them by the United Nations.

There is a big difference between what you are trying to portray, and what actually happened.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

Palestine's declaration of independence in 1948 was on its own land inside its own international borders. It did not claim the land of others.

The Arab September 1948 Claim comes several months after the May 1948 Declaration by the Jewish People...

Indeed.

If the Muslims had had the presence of mind to Declare on the same day that the Jews did (May 14, 1948), they might actually have had a viable legal argument to anchor their claims upon.

Given that they Declared in September 1948 - months later - they could only Declare for that part of unincorpoated Old Palestine which remained unclaimed.

Standard fare for the Palestinians... a day late and a dinar short.

The early bird gets the worm, and all that.