I will not Bow!

[Kondor3]

What occupation?

"One of the most important problems that must be cleared up before a lasting peace can be established in Palestine is the question of the disposition of more than 700,000 Arab refugees who during the Palestine conflict fled from their homes in what is now Israeli occupied territory..."

FRUS: Foreign relations of the United States, 1949. The Near East, South Asia, and Africa

Mr. Tinmore, how many of these 700,000 people are still alive? Millions of people after World War II were displaced, and after a few years they certainly didn't think of themselves as refugees anymore and, of course, their children never thought of themselves as refugees. Those children of World War II refugees who were born in the U.S. just thought of themselves as Americans and not refugees of the country their parents had to leave. Do you consider yourself a refugee?

Good point.

Then again, we are talking about World Class Under-Performers, here...

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, but even the THE COMMITTEE ON THE EXERCISE OF THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND THE DIVISION FOR PALESTINIAN RIGHTS cannot point to a first affirmation.

Well, there is an answer, but Paul won't like it. The year 1983.

You are a little late. My question stemmed from resolution 3236 of 1974. This shows that the Palestinians already had the right to self determination then.

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

(COMMENT)

While I think it goes back to the arguments presented by the Emir and the Grand Mufti, Resolution 3236 (XXIX) points to no previous reference.

Second, there may be a case to argue concerning the previous existence of inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, but --- that doesn't mean that the Arab Palestinian actually had a realization of those rights. You will notice that the 2013 General Assembly Resolution makes the reference: "Having considered the report of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People." That report to the General Assembly says in part:

The Committee's recommendations were not adopted by the Security Council, due to the negative vote of a permanent member, and have not been implemented. They were, however, endorsed by an overwhelming majority in the General Assembly, to which the Committee reports annually. The Assembly reaffirmed that a just and lasting peace in the Middle East could not be established without the achievement of a just solution of the problem of Palestine based on the attainment of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people. The Assembly also requested the Committee to keep the situation relating to the question of Palestine under review and to report and make suggestions to the General Assembly or the Security Council, as appropriate, and to promote the greatest possible dissemination of information on its recommendations through non-governmental organizations and other appropriate means.

SOURCE: Report by the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People

This, in effect, makes the same argument I made in a previous posting. Without the KSAs to implement the rights, the rights are invisible. The Arab Palestinian never actualized a right to anything. They just used it as justification for the continuation of Jihadist and Fedayeen activities directed against Israel and its allies.

I agree that, as far as documentation goes, A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974 is a capstone reference. Having said that, it is no substitute for tangible evidence of attempts to actualize those objectives; and that dates back to a time before the Partition Plan. It must also be remembered that the first successful actualization of the right to self-determination was the Palestinian Declaration of Independence (A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988).

If you use the A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974 as the benchmark, then you are pointing back to my original answer, that the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people comes from a time influenced by the Emir and the Grand Mufti. However, if, as in modern times, you used the actualization as the benchmark, then your timeline begins (as the Division for Palestinian Rights notes) in 1983 for realization and 1988 for actualization.

You are free to make your own evaluation. But it is relatively clear to me that the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are, yet once again, in danger of being lost; just as they were from 1948-to-1967 during the forfeiture to the Arab League.

Just My Thought,
R

Perhaps this will help.

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE...

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, but even the THE COMMITTEE ON THE EXERCISE OF THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND THE DIVISION FOR PALESTINIAN RIGHTS cannot point to a first affirmation.

You are a little late. My question stemmed from resolution 3236 of 1974. This shows that the Palestinians already had the right to self determination then.

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

(COMMENT)

While I think it goes back to the arguments presented by the Emir and the Grand Mufti, Resolution 3236 (XXIX) points to no previous reference.

Second, there may be a case to argue concerning the previous existence of inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, but --- that doesn't mean that the Arab Palestinian actually had a realization of those rights. You will notice that the 2013 General Assembly Resolution makes the reference: "Having considered the report of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People." That report to the General Assembly says in part:



This, in effect, makes the same argument I made in a previous posting. Without the KSAs to implement the rights, the rights are invisible. The Arab Palestinian never actualized a right to anything. They just used it as justification for the continuation of Jihadist and Fedayeen activities directed against Israel and its allies.

I agree that, as far as documentation goes, A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974 is a capstone reference. Having said that, it is no substitute for tangible evidence of attempts to actualize those objectives; and that dates back to a time before the Partition Plan. It must also be remembered that the first successful actualization of the right to self-determination was the Palestinian Declaration of Independence (A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988).

If you use the A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974 as the benchmark, then you are pointing back to my original answer, that the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people comes from a time influenced by the Emir and the Grand Mufti. However, if, as in modern times, you used the actualization as the benchmark, then your timeline begins (as the Division for Palestinian Rights notes) in 1983 for realization and 1988 for actualization.

You are free to make your own evaluation. But it is relatively clear to me that the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are, yet once again, in danger of being lost; just as they were from 1948-to-1967 during the forfeiture to the Arab League.

Just My Thought,
R

Perhaps this will help.

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE...

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

Define the Boundaries. Show us that precise map.

 

[Kondor3]

...Perhaps this will help.

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE...

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

They should have declared on May 14, 1948, alongside the Israelis.

Several months late and a dollar short.

Typical incompetent Palestinian fumbling.

You snooze... you lose.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, but even the THE COMMITTEE ON THE EXERCISE OF THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND THE DIVISION FOR PALESTINIAN RIGHTS cannot point to a first affirmation.


(COMMENT)

While I think it goes back to the arguments presented by the Emir and the Grand Mufti, Resolution 3236 (XXIX) points to no previous reference.

Second, there may be a case to argue concerning the previous existence of inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, but --- that doesn't mean that the Arab Palestinian actually had a realization of those rights. You will notice that the 2013 General Assembly Resolution makes the reference: "Having considered the report of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People." That report to the General Assembly says in part:



This, in effect, makes the same argument I made in a previous posting. Without the KSAs to implement the rights, the rights are invisible. The Arab Palestinian never actualized a right to anything. They just used it as justification for the continuation of Jihadist and Fedayeen activities directed against Israel and its allies.

I agree that, as far as documentation goes, A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974 is a capstone reference. Having said that, it is no substitute for tangible evidence of attempts to actualize those objectives; and that dates back to a time before the Partition Plan. It must also be remembered that the first successful actualization of the right to self-determination was the Palestinian Declaration of Independence (A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988).

If you use the A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974 as the benchmark, then you are pointing back to my original answer, that the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people comes from a time influenced by the Emir and the Grand Mufti. However, if, as in modern times, you used the actualization as the benchmark, then your timeline begins (as the Division for Palestinian Rights notes) in 1983 for realization and 1988 for actualization.

You are free to make your own evaluation. But it is relatively clear to me that the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are, yet once again, in danger of being lost; just as they were from 1948-to-1967 during the forfeiture to the Arab League.

Just My Thought,
R

Perhaps this will help.

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE...

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

Define the Boundaries. Show us that precise map.

 

[P F Tinmore]

...Perhaps this will help.

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE...

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

They should have declared on May 14, 1948, alongside the Israelis.

Several months late and a dollar short.

Typical incompetent Palestinian fumbling.

You snooze... you lose.

Palestine declared independence inside its own borders.

Israel declared independence inside Palestine's borders.

OOOPS!

 

[aris2chat]

Perhaps this will help.

Define the Boundaries. Show us that precise map.

six wars, the map will change.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Define the Boundaries. Show us that precise map.

six wars, the map will change.

Not yet.

Changing Palestine's borders is a final status issue in the current peace talks.

 

[aris2chat]

six wars, the map will change.

Not yet.

Changing Palestine's borders is a final status issue in the current peace talks.

since there was no state, palestine had no set borders. Arabs annexed, occupied and last land and gave up during six wars against Israel. If palestine wants borders, they need to compromise with Israel, not make demands.

 

[toastman]

...Perhaps this will help.

They should have declared on May 14, 1948, alongside the Israelis.

Several months late and a dollar short.

Typical incompetent Palestinian fumbling.

You snooze... you lose.

Palestine declared independence inside its own borders.

Israel declared independence inside Palestine's borders.

OOOPS!

Palestine declared independence 40 years AFTER Israel declared independence.
OOPS !!

Oh, and your post is a lie and I'm certain you have zero proof of this.

 

[toastman]

OK, but what about the 1948 occupation?

What occupation?

"One of the most important problems that must be cleared up before a lasting peace can be established in Palestine is the question of the disposition of more than 700,000 Arab refugees who during the Palestine conflict fled from their homes in what is now Israeli occupied territory..."

FRUS: Foreign relations of the United States, 1949. The Near East, South Asia, and Africa

They are talking about the West Bank genius LOL !!!

Keep it up with your lies Tinmore!

 

[toastman]

That's what I thought.

You don't have squat.

Lol stop pretending like you don't know what I'm talking about. You're more mature than that.
Remember that list I made of your claims that you were wrong about?
All of those are examples. Even after Rocco or I or someone else would give you indisputable evidence that contradicts you claims, the next day you would still be making them.
A perfect example of that would be Israels borders. Or about how Palestine=mandate.
You know EXACTLY what I'm talking about so don't tell me I don't have squat.

I have already proved that Palestine exists after the end of the mandate.

Next?

Palestine the what??

 

[P F Tinmore]

six wars, the map will change.

Not yet.

Changing Palestine's borders is a final status issue in the current peace talks.

since there was no state, palestine had no set borders. Arabs annexed, occupied and last land and gave up during six wars against Israel. If palestine wants borders, they need to compromise with Israel, not make demands.

That map's international boundaries are clear. Those same borders are referenced in the 1949 armistice agreements. There is no question about Palestine's borders.

 

[toastman]

Perhaps this will help.

Define the Boundaries. Show us that precise map.

Once again Tinmore can't even produce a map of Palestine inside its boundaries, so he pastes a map that shows PROPOSED boundaries haha

But, what can I expect from someone who didn't even know when Palestine became a sovereign state

 

[Hossfly]

Not yet.

Changing Palestine's borders is a final status issue in the current peace talks.

since there was no state, palestine had no set borders. Arabs annexed, occupied and last land and gave up during six wars against Israel. If palestine wants borders, they need to compromise with Israel, not make demands.

That map's international boundaries are clear. Those same borders are referenced in the 1949 armistice agreements. There is no question about Palestine's borders.

O.K. Do you want to go with that, Tinmore?

 

[toastman]

Not yet.

Changing Palestine's borders is a final status issue in the current peace talks.

since there was no state, palestine had no set borders. Arabs annexed, occupied and last land and gave up during six wars against Israel. If palestine wants borders, they need to compromise with Israel, not make demands.

That map's international boundaries are clear. Those same borders are referenced in the 1949 armistice agreements. There is no question about Palestine's borders.

Then why cant you post a map of Palestine with the marked borders ))
All you have is a map of proposed borders.
I have a map of Israel with the internationally recognized boundaries.

 

[Hossfly]

Not yet.

Changing Palestine's borders is a final status issue in the current peace talks.

since there was no state, palestine had no set borders. Arabs annexed, occupied and last land and gave up during six wars against Israel. If palestine wants borders, they need to compromise with Israel, not make demands.

That map's international boundaries are clear. Those same borders are referenced in the 1949 armistice agreements. There is no question about Palestine's borders.

What does "ad hoc" mean, Tinmore? Any idea? What's your definition?

 

[toastman]

'There is no question about Palestines borders'

That's because they don't exist....

 

[P F Tinmore]

since there was no state, palestine had no set borders. Arabs annexed, occupied and last land and gave up during six wars against Israel. If palestine wants borders, they need to compromise with Israel, not make demands.

That map's international boundaries are clear. Those same borders are referenced in the 1949 armistice agreements. There is no question about Palestine's borders.

Then why cant you post a map of Palestine with the marked borders ))
All you have is a map of proposed borders.
I have a map of Israel with the internationally recognized boundaries.

Look at the legend. The international boundaries are marked +-+-+-+-. The proposed, but never implemented, borders are solid lines.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I've seen this many times before...

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, but even the THE COMMITTEE ON THE EXERCISE OF THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND THE DIVISION FOR PALESTINIAN RIGHTS cannot point to a first affirmation.

You are a little late. My question stemmed from resolution 3236 of 1974. This shows that the Palestinians already had the right to self determination then.

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

(COMMENT)

While I think it goes back to the arguments presented by the Emir and the Grand Mufti, Resolution 3236 (XXIX) points to no previous reference.

Second, there may be a case to argue concerning the previous existence of inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, but --- that doesn't mean that the Arab Palestinian actually had a realization of those rights. You will notice that the 2013 General Assembly Resolution makes the reference: "Having considered the report of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People." That report to the General Assembly says in part:



This, in effect, makes the same argument I made in a previous posting. Without the KSAs to implement the rights, the rights are invisible. The Arab Palestinian never actualized a right to anything. They just used it as justification for the continuation of Jihadist and Fedayeen activities directed against Israel and its allies.

I agree that, as far as documentation goes, A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974 is a capstone reference. Having said that, it is no substitute for tangible evidence of attempts to actualize those objectives; and that dates back to a time before the Partition Plan. It must also be remembered that the first successful actualization of the right to self-determination was the Palestinian Declaration of Independence (A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988).

If you use the A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974 as the benchmark, then you are pointing back to my original answer, that the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people comes from a time influenced by the Emir and the Grand Mufti. However, if, as in modern times, you used the actualization as the benchmark, then your timeline begins (as the Division for Palestinian Rights notes) in 1983 for realization and 1988 for actualization.

You are free to make your own evaluation. But it is relatively clear to me that the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are, yet once again, in danger of being lost; just as they were from 1948-to-1967 during the forfeiture to the Arab League.

Just My Thought,
R

Perhaps this will help.

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE...

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

(COMMENT)

This was totally ignored.

It is a case of the All Palestine Government trying to mimic the Notification of Independence that the Jewish Agency send 5 month earlier in accordance with the Steps Preparatory to Independence.

So no, this doesn't count at all.

Most Respectfully,
R