I will not Bow!

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You get this wrong consistently. One more time.

Yeah, what kind of question is this?


(COMMENT)

It was a legal entity under civil administration (originally under the title of Occupied Enemy Territory Administration) of the UK assigned by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Remo.

A Mandate!

Most Respectfully,
R

The mandate was not Palestine. The mandate was assigned to Palestine. Palestine exists separate from the mandate.

(COMMENT)

Remembering that:

PRELIMINARY.
Title ---

1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​

SOURCE: The Palestine Order in Council

To say "Palestine" is exactly equal to saying "Mandate for Palestine." It describes both a protocol and a place.

Palestine was defined at the leisure of the Mandate. It was not a defined territory previously under under some sovereignty by a people known as Palestinians.

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;
SOURCE: Convention

It had no boundaries until the Allied Powers fixed them.

You are quibbling with words to fit your agenda. You conveniently forget that the:

"Mandate for Palestine" = "Palestine"​

It was not a territory that belonged to "Palestinians" --- nor does the word imply that. It is a territory arbitrarily defined by the Allied Powers for political purposes. It does not describe a territory with a defined population or boundary, except as the Allied Powers found convenient.

Do you understand?

Most Respectfully,
R

Then why was Palestine still there after the mandate left?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Wow!

You get this wrong consistently. One more time.

The mandate was not Palestine. The mandate was assigned to Palestine. Palestine exists separate from the mandate.

(COMMENT)

Remembering that:



To say "Palestine" is exactly equal to saying "Mandate for Palestine." It describes both a protocol and a place.

Palestine was defined at the leisure of the Mandate. It was not a defined territory previously under under some sovereignty by a people known as Palestinians.

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;
SOURCE: Convention

It had no boundaries until the Allied Powers fixed them.

You are quibbling with words to fit your agenda. You conveniently forget that the:

"Mandate for Palestine" = "Palestine"​

It was not a territory that belonged to "Palestinians" --- nor does the word imply that. It is a territory arbitrarily defined by the Allied Powers for political purposes. It does not describe a territory with a defined population or boundary, except as the Allied Powers found convenient.

Do you understand?

Then why was Palestine still there after the mandate left?

(COMMENT)

It transitioned to the Successor Government in reduced size as the Former Mandate but still under the Administration of the UN Trusteeship (successor the the older Mandate System). It was a legal entity, but not sovereign or self-governing; except for the Jewish State - Israel. That is until November 1988.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

Palestinian sour grapes for not being as savvy and prepared and courageous and committed as the Jews in 1948... the Pals screwed-up and they know it, and they've been trying to cover that up, at-law, for the past 66 years - and failing.

 

[pbel]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Wow!

You get this wrong consistently. One more time.


(COMMENT)

Remembering that:



To say "Palestine" is exactly equal to saying "Mandate for Palestine." It describes both a protocol and a place.

Palestine was defined at the leisure of the Mandate. It was not a defined territory previously under under some sovereignty by a people known as Palestinians.



It had no boundaries until the Allied Powers fixed them.

You are quibbling with words to fit your agenda. You conveniently forget that the:

"Mandate for Palestine" = "Palestine"​

It was not a territory that belonged to "Palestinians" --- nor does the word imply that. It is a territory arbitrarily defined by the Allied Powers for political purposes. It does not describe a territory with a defined population or boundary, except as the Allied Powers found convenient.

Do you understand?

Then why was Palestine still there after the mandate left?

(COMMENT)

It transitioned to the Successor Government in reduced size as the Former Mandate but still under the Administration of the UN Trusteeship (successor the the older Mandate System). It was a legal entity, but not sovereign or self-governing; except for the Jewish State - Israel. That is until November 1988.

Most Respectfully,
R

I guess you just don't get it...No-one in the Islamic world gives any credence to your Western Colonial interpretations...

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Wow!

Then why was Palestine still there after the mandate left?

(COMMENT)

It transitioned to the Successor Government in reduced size as the Former Mandate but still under the Administration of the UN Trusteeship (successor the the older Mandate System). It was a legal entity, but not sovereign or self-governing; except for the Jewish State - Israel. That is until November 1988.

Most Respectfully,
R

I guess you just don't get it...No-one in the Islamic world gives any credence to your Western Colonial interpretations...

And I guess you don't get it..... No one in the west gives a shit about what the illiterate arabs say, the land is Israel and will stay so for the next millenia

 

[Kondor3]

"...Irrelevant. The right to return does not depend on the reason for leaving."

True.

The Right of Return depends upon whether or not the Israelis say it's OK for you to return.

The Israelis have said "No".

"No" means "No".

You can take whatever 'law' you care to cite and try to twist to your advantage, and use it to supplement your supply of toilet paper.

'Cause Return just ain't gonna happen.

Not unless you're hiding a Superior Military up your sleeve that you haven't brought to the poker table yet.

Time to wake-up and smell the coffee... time to rejoin the Real World... time to move on, to some other place that'll take you... so that you and yours can get on with life.

Sixty-six years of living in a world of Make-Believe and childish, petulant squealing over something that's never gonna happen... bore, bore, bore.

 

[SAYIT]

"...Irrelevant. The right to return does not depend on the reason for leaving."

True.

The Right of Return depends upon whether or not the Israelis say it's OK for you to return.

The Israelis have said "No".

"No" means "No".

You can take whatever 'law' you care to cite and try to twist to your advantage, and use it to supplement your supply of toilet paper.

'Cause Return just ain't gonna happen.

Not unless you're hiding a Superior Military up your sleeve that you haven't brought to the poker table yet.

Time to wake-up and smell the coffee... time to rejoin the Real World... time to move on, to some other place that'll take you... so that you and yours can get on with life.

Sixty-six years of living in a world of Make-Believe and childish, petulant squealing over something that's never gonna happen... bore, bore, bore.

Keyboard warriors like Tinhorn and GP don't care about the plight of those hapless Palestinian "refugees." They would rather another 666 wasted years than a peaceful solution.

 

[RoccoR]

pbel, et al,

And of course, you are more right then you might think.

I guess you just don't get it...No-one in the Islamic world gives any credence to your Western Colonial interpretations...

(COMMENT)

None of the Mandates represented any form of Western Colonization.

As for the interpretation, nearly all the references you used, are authored by one or more of the original WWI Allied Powers. What interpretation should be used?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[pbel]

pbel, et al,

And of course, you are more right then you might think.

I guess you just don't get it...No-one in the Islamic world gives any credence to your Western Colonial interpretations...

(COMMENT)

None of the Mandates represented any form of Western Colonization.

As for the interpretation, nearly all the references you used, are authored by one or more of the original WWI Allied Powers. What interpretation should be used?Most Respectfully,
R

Oh, I see people from the European diaspora and later Russia are not Colonialist, I see, they are just land thieves.


The conquered peoples who were indigenous for 2,000 years, try too see their point of view....

 

[Sally]

Oh, I see people from the European diaspora and later Russia are not Colonialist, I see, they are just land thieves.


The conquered peoples who were indigenous for 2,000 years, try too see their point of view....

Get over it already, stupid.

The little maggot chimes in. Wipe your nose and then you will know why no one is over it!

Pbel, I would like to ask you a question. We all know that the original Christians were in many Middle East countries way before the Arabs left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded the surrounding countries where they forced these Christians into accepting Islam and killed many who refused. How is it that you are not concerned with the descendants of these people whose ancestors were lucky to survive this onslaught -- the Copts, the Assyrians, etc -- when they can't practice their religious beliefs in peace and so many of them have been murdered with their churches destroyed? Meanwhile, early travelers to the Holy Land had reported that they didn't see many Arabs, mainly bedouins, and Winston Churchill reported (probably with reports coming back from the officials in the area) that the Arabs were swarming into the areas from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them. I am sure you are aware of what is happening with regard for the poor people from Southeast Asia, Africa and the Middle East with their leaving in great numbers their countries and going to other countries for jobs in Europe and the Western Hemisphere, the same as you are aware of the millions of Hispanics who have crossed our own southern border for jobs.

 

[pbel]

Get over it already, stupid.

The little maggot chimes in. Wipe your nose and then you will know why no one is over it!

Pbel, I would like to ask you a question. We all know that the original Christians were in many Middle East countries way before the Arabs left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded the surrounding countries where they forced these Christians into accepting Islam and killed many who refused. How is it that you are not concerned with the descendants of these people whose ancestors were lucky to survive this onslaught -- the Copts, the Assyrians, etc -- when they can't practice their religious beliefs in peace and so many of them have been murdered with their churches destroyed? Meanwhile, early travelers to the Holy Land had reported that they didn't see many Arabs, mainly bedouins, and Winston Churchill reported (probably with reports coming back from the officials in the area) that the Arabs were swarming into the areas from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them. I am sure you are aware of what is happening with regard for the poor people from Southeast Asia, Africa and the Middle East with their leaving in great numbers their countries and going to other countries for jobs in Europe and the Western Hemisphere, the same as you are aware of the millions of Hispanics who have crossed our own southern border for jobs.

Sally, I like Jews a lot more than the ego-alien culture of Islam, but what can we do"? The last thing would be to create a Western outpost in the middle of their turf, it suicidal in the long run.

The injustices and invasions you speak of happened 1500 years ago and continue today by Israel and Muslims. But hey have no relevance to this conflict...Those people Christians and Jews converted to Islam by the sword don't want to changes their religions today, in fact they lived next to the Palestinians peacefully until Zionism invaded the land, only today forceful invasions are against International norms...

If the Arabs offer peace and recognition then half a loaf to the 67 borders is just.

 

[Sally]

The little maggot chimes in. Wipe your nose and then you will know why no one is over it!

Pbel, I would like to ask you a question. We all know that the original Christians were in many Middle East countries way before the Arabs left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded the surrounding countries where they forced these Christians into accepting Islam and killed many who refused. How is it that you are not concerned with the descendants of these people whose ancestors were lucky to survive this onslaught -- the Copts, the Assyrians, etc -- when they can't practice their religious beliefs in peace and so many of them have been murdered with their churches destroyed? Meanwhile, early travelers to the Holy Land had reported that they didn't see many Arabs, mainly bedouins, and Winston Churchill reported (probably with reports coming back from the officials in the area) that the Arabs were swarming into the areas from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them. I am sure you are aware of what is happening with regard for the poor people from Southeast Asia, Africa and the Middle East with their leaving in great numbers their countries and going to other countries for jobs in Europe and the Western Hemisphere, the same as you are aware of the millions of Hispanics who have crossed our own southern border for jobs.

Sally, I like Jews a lot more than the ego-alien culture of Islam, but what can we do"? The last thing would be to create a Western outpost in the middle of their turf, it suicidal in the long run.

The injustices and invasions you speak of happened 1500 years ago and continue today by Israel and Muslims. But hey have no relevance to this conflict...Those people Christians and Jews converted to Islam by the sword don't want to changes their religions today, in fact they lived next to the Palestinians peacefully until Zionism invaded the land, only today forceful invasions are against International norms...

If the Arabs offer peace and recognition then half a loaf to the 67 borders is just.

Well, Pbel, the invasion by Islam might have happened over 1500 years ago, but today, right now, in the Middle East the descendents of those early Christians who were lucky enough to survive are being harassed and murdered because of their religion. Naturally, the reports of the early travelers saying they there were very few Arabs in the Holy Land mean nothing to you. You would never accept the fact that most of these Arabs came from surrounding areas for jobs. Why do you think we see so many different people coming here for jobs? Do you really think they all are coming here for political asylum? Do you ever read about the poor Africans who try to get to Europe on vessels that are not seaworthy (and many drown) because they want jobs? Meanwhile, Pbel just doesn't want to see that the Arabs do not want to give up one tiny piece of land in the Middle East, but of course in Pbel's mind, it is all the Zionists fault. The charters of Fatah and Hamas say they will welcome being at peace with the Jews, don't they, Pbel? I certainly wish you can tell us why you are so obsessed with the "Zionists" when there is so much going on in the rest of the Middle East. Why are you so silent? People are being murdered all the time because of their religion or the sect they belong too; yet it has always been more important for you to talk about the "Zionists."

 

[pbel]

Pbel, I would like to ask you a question. We all know that the original Christians were in many Middle East countries way before the Arabs left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded the surrounding countries where they forced these Christians into accepting Islam and killed many who refused. How is it that you are not concerned with the descendants of these people whose ancestors were lucky to survive this onslaught -- the Copts, the Assyrians, etc -- when they can't practice their religious beliefs in peace and so many of them have been murdered with their churches destroyed? Meanwhile, early travelers to the Holy Land had reported that they didn't see many Arabs, mainly bedouins, and Winston Churchill reported (probably with reports coming back from the officials in the area) that the Arabs were swarming into the areas from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them. I am sure you are aware of what is happening with regard for the poor people from Southeast Asia, Africa and the Middle East with their leaving in great numbers their countries and going to other countries for jobs in Europe and the Western Hemisphere, the same as you are aware of the millions of Hispanics who have crossed our own southern border for jobs.

Sally, I like Jews a lot more than the ego-alien culture of Islam, but what can we do"? The last thing would be to create a Western outpost in the middle of their turf, it suicidal in the long run.

The injustices and invasions you speak of happened 1500 years ago and continue today by Israel and Muslims. But hey have no relevance to this conflict...Those people Christians and Jews converted to Islam by the sword don't want to changes their religions today, in fact they lived next to the Palestinians peacefully until Zionism invaded the land, only today forceful invasions are against International norms...

If the Arabs offer peace and recognition then half a loaf to the 67 borders is just.

Well, Pbel, the invasion by Islam might have happened over 1500 years ago, but today, right now, in the Middle East the descendents of those early Christians who were lucky enough to survive are being harassed and murdered because of their religion. Naturally, the reports of the early travelers saying they there were very few Arabs in the Holy Land mean nothing to you. You would never accept the fact that most of these Arabs came from surrounding areas for jobs. Why do you think we see so many different people coming here for jobs? Do you really think they all are coming here for political asylum? Do you ever read about the poor Africans who try to get to Europe on vessels that are not seaworthy (and many drown) because they want jobs? Meanwhile, Pbel just doesn't want to see that the Arabs do not want to give up one tiny piece of land in the Middle East, but of course in Pbel's mind, it is all the Zionists fault. The charters of Fatah and Hamas say they will welcome being at peace with the Jews, don't they, Pbel? I certainly wish you can tell us why you are so obsessed with the "Zionists" when there is so much going on in the rest of the Middle East. Why are you so silent? People are being murdered all the time because of their religion or the sect they belong too; yet it has always been more important for you to talk about the "Zionists."

God, I hope Israel is not paying you to post...Yakety yak, overboard redundancy, two sentences in and bored we go...The point being lost in a bag of hot air...

What is your point? Are you saying we should discuss Biafra or Sudan in the Palestinian Israeli board? Discuss obsessions and delusions?

What is your point in one sentence.

 

[Billo_Really]

Oh, and, by the way, your magic 700,000 number includes vast numbers of Arabs who left on their own without being driven out...

Bullshit!

Nobody leaves a place they've been living at for generations, just because someone asks them to.

 

[Billo_Really]

Learn to read I said there was no COUNTRY to take over. Taking over villages during a war where the Palestinians joined the the Arabs to destroy Israel and push the Jews to the sea is not taking over a mythical country. BOTH sides were trying to push eachother out, but the Jews won so get over it and stop whining.

You got time issues, dude.

It was the taking over of villages, that started the war.

 

[Hossfly]

Learn to read I said there was no COUNTRY to take over. Taking over villages during a war where the Palestinians joined the the Arabs to destroy Israel and push the Jews to the sea is not taking over a mythical country. BOTH sides were trying to push eachother out, but the Jews won so get over it and stop whining.

You got time issues, dude.

It was the taking over of villages, that started the war.

No, no, no,Billo. No, no, no.

 

[Sally]

Sally, I like Jews a lot more than the ego-alien culture of Islam, but what can we do"? The last thing would be to create a Western outpost in the middle of their turf, it suicidal in the long run.

The injustices and invasions you speak of happened 1500 years ago and continue today by Israel and Muslims. But hey have no relevance to this conflict...Those people Christians and Jews converted to Islam by the sword don't want to changes their religions today, in fact they lived next to the Palestinians peacefully until Zionism invaded the land, only today forceful invasions are against International norms...

If the Arabs offer peace and recognition then half a loaf to the 67 borders is just.

Well, Pbel, the invasion by Islam might have happened over 1500 years ago, but today, right now, in the Middle East the descendents of those early Christians who were lucky enough to survive are being harassed and murdered because of their religion. Naturally, the reports of the early travelers saying they there were very few Arabs in the Holy Land mean nothing to you. You would never accept the fact that most of these Arabs came from surrounding areas for jobs. Why do you think we see so many different people coming here for jobs? Do you really think they all are coming here for political asylum? Do you ever read about the poor Africans who try to get to Europe on vessels that are not seaworthy (and many drown) because they want jobs? Meanwhile, Pbel just doesn't want to see that the Arabs do not want to give up one tiny piece of land in the Middle East, but of course in Pbel's mind, it is all the Zionists fault. The charters of Fatah and Hamas say they will welcome being at peace with the Jews, don't they, Pbel? I certainly wish you can tell us why you are so obsessed with the "Zionists" when there is so much going on in the rest of the Middle East. Why are you so silent? People are being murdered all the time because of their religion or the sect they belong too; yet it has always been more important for you to talk about the "Zionists."

God, I hope Israel is not paying you to post...Yakety yak, overboard redundancy, two sentences in and bored we go...The point being lost in a bag of hot air...

What is your point? Are you saying we should discuss Biafra or Sudan in the Palestinian Israeli board? Discuss obsessions and delusions?

What is your point in one sentence.

Well I certainly hope that you didn't take money for your silly poems when you became a Dhimmi. Let's face it, Pbel, anyone who knows your history during the years of you posting realizes that you are not interested in the Middle East as a whole, but are only interested in the "Zionists." Do you realize that just in this year alone, thousands and thousands of people have been killed in the Middle East? I know you can't involve the "Zionists" in this, but these people are still dead. Do you really think that those who did the killings actually want to see Jews governing a little piece of land in the Middle East?

 

[flacaltenn]

Moderation Message:

Second moderator intervention today for no-content flaming posts.
Please stay on topic..
If you have deleted posts on the past couple pages, be warned that
future infractions are possible.

flacaltenn

 

[Kondor3]

Oh, and, by the way, your magic 700,000 number includes vast numbers of Arabs who left on their own without being driven out...

Bullshit!

Nobody leaves a place they've been living at for generations, just because someone asks them to.

You're saying so doesn't make it true...

Some of the 700,000 were truly driven out by Jewish militias for the sake of driving them out, or for land-gain, or for tactical or strategic advantage, or just to get them the hell out of the Jews' hair during upcoming combat operations...

Some of the 700,000 were forced out by combat operations between the two sides, nearby to their homes...

Some of the 700,000 skeddaddled in fear rather than fight, long before the shooting started...

Some of the 700,000 left because their own Arab-Muslim religious-militia leaders and their neighbor Arab-States told them to leave, to await the day in the coming weeks when they would push the Jews into the Mediterranean and reclaim all of Old Palestine for the Arab-Muslims of the region...

Some of them were driven out...

Many left for other reasons...

No bullshit...

Truth...

And well-documented, as a number of our colleagues have served-up in recent months, including the video testimony of Arabs who heard such calls when they were made in the 1947-1949 timeframe...

But thank you for playing, Junior... do keep trying... Allah (the Merciful, the Compassionate) loves try-ers, too !

 

[toastman]

Learn to read I said there was no COUNTRY to take over. Taking over villages during a war where the Palestinians joined the the Arabs to destroy Israel and push the Jews to the sea is not taking over a mythical country. BOTH sides were trying to push eachother out, but the Jews won so get over it and stop whining.

You got time issues, dude.

It was the taking over of villages, that started the war.

Liar, there were two wars. The first war was called the Mandatory Palestine civil war which started the day of the partition plan up until the day of the cessation of the mandate. The Arab Israeli war is what followed. So I was saying, the destroying of villages happened during during the wars but a large majority during the Arab Israeli war of 1948 when 5 Arab Armies surrounded the region from all sides and attacked the newly founded state. And yes, the Palestinians took part in this war. And yes, the intention of the vicious Arabs during this war was to push the Jews to the Sea and destroy their newly founded country which was LEGALLY founded when the Jews declared independence.
And no, the war was not about helping the Palestinians. In fact, many Palestinians were asked to leave their homes but then could not return. Ya, some help those Arabs were
BTW, the myth is that the Arabs asked the Palestinians to leave the region, but really they were asked to leave to the border areas where the Arabs had set up 'ghettos' for the Palestinians.