I will not Bow!

[pbel]

pbel, et al,

This, unfortunately, is an example and extension of the "It is All About ME, ME, ME!" attitude. It is extremely common in the Narcissistic Personality of the Palestinian and Pro-Palestinian persona (PpPp).

There are a number of reasons why America should back away from becoming involved in attempting to drive a political solution to the Middle East dilemma (the Israeli-Palestinian conflict); yet still, support the protection of the Jewish State. But the "It is all about Me" attitude is not one of the reasons.

Nor is pure nationalism (a single-minded focus, loyalty and devotion to a America) --- what's good for America is good for us, and forget about the rest --- the right posture to assume.


(COMMENT)

Whether or not Israel (or the Palestinian for that matter) is a good neighbor, friend, or ally to America is as unimportant to the issues at hand. Nor is it important that America receive an immediate, short-term, benefit from its involvement, of any consequence. What is important is the maintenance of the original ideals behind the promotion and establishment of the Jewish State. That is, the preservation of a society and culture of a people that has been oppressed down through the ages; the desire to achieve Jewish political independence, with a separate identity and culture but had no state of their own --- against --- a wave of incessant and excessive Arab Nationalism, and its fanatically devotion to Jihad and its self-interests, often associated with a grandiose sense of self-importance, and diametrically opposed to the preservation effort. The PpPp has a sense of entitlement --- unreasonable expectations --- of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with uniquely Arab expectations. The PpPp is totally lacking in any form of empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the aspirations and needs of other cultures; preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, and brilliance --- attributes they consistently fail to demonstrate or achieve in any meaningful way, shape or form.

• The PpPp is often heard to cry "genocide!" Yet little is it remembered that it was the PpPp that "made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition [GA/RES/181(II)]. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child."

• The PpPp is often heard to claim "apartheid!" Yet little is it remembered that the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) Ambassador to the United States (Maen Areikat) said "that any future Palestinian state it seeks with help from the United Nations and the United States should be free of Israelis."

• The PpPp is often heard to complain about "invasion!" Yet little is it remembered that the that on mid-night 14/15 May 1948, UK (Mandatory) relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. And, simultaneously, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. "Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities." The following day, regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the PpPp in defying Resolution 181(II) of the UN.

Even today, as HAMAS Ministry of Education (under Article 15 of the Covenant - "The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty"), where "Jihad" is expressed as an individual duty of every Moslem,



The PpPp is diametrically opposed the the principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered (A/RES/25/2625). Instead they suggest that there is some legitimacy in "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."

Yes, it is important for Americans not to get all tied-up in the bantering of the day and remember the basics of the struggle. The PpPp believe that the very documents that the Jewish People followed as a guide - The Partition of Palestine in 1947 [GA/RES/181(II)], and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void. And that the armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. And many of the outspoken PpPp see JIHAD! as the only true solution. "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement." (Article 13 - HAMAS Covenant)

Yes, it is important for Americans to understand the scope and nature of the PpPp and the morality for which they stand.

Yes, the Israelis are not perfect. But in saying that, there is a huge magnitude in the difference between the Israeli and the PpPp.

Most Respectfully,
R

Being a Psychology/Pol. Science major I too can see your persona falls under the inferiority complex...just look at your avatar, nice military setting trying to look like George Patton. But George was a straight shooter not the hypocrite with bells and whistles of who sells an invasion of a peaceful people just because the British decided to declared Belfour like the Pirates they have been throughout their history...

Its not for me Rocco, I call a spade a spade...Western Colonialism will never set amongst the Arabs, they will fight for their lands until they win...

That's what I see if Israel does not accept the UN Resolutions and the terms of the Arab League .

Obviously you could't handle the truth in his post and the reality of the conflict, so you start off your argument with insulting how the man looks in his avatar...
You should not have bothered to have responded to this post, it's obviously beyond what you are capable of processing.
Instead you gave us your usual shtick about how The Arabs will overwhelm Israel with demographics blah blah. Such a crock of drek.

That is a problem with hypocrisy...Rocco can call me narcissistic but replying in kind is wrong. Go sit in a corner...

As far as my long-term analysis: I think if you look at the history and the numbers, there is no other outcome unless Israel is truly accepted in the neighborhood.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The PpPp is often heard to complain about "invasion!" Yet little is it remembered that the that on mid-night 14/15 May 1948, UK (Mandatory) relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. And, simultaneously, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The Jewish Agency was a part of the mandate and served at the pleasure of the mandate. Without the mandate it had no function or legal status in Palestine.

There was never a formal acquisition of the land proposed for a Jewish state by Israel. That was part of the suggested, non binding partition plan that was not implemented.

 

[toastman]

The PpPp is often heard to complain about "invasion!" Yet little is it remembered that the that on mid-night 14/15 May 1948, UK (Mandatory) relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. And, simultaneously, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The Jewish Agency was a part of the mandate and served at the pleasure of the mandate. Without the mandate it had no function or legal status in Palestine.

There was never a formal acquisition of the land proposed for a Jewish state by Israel. That was part of the suggested, non binding partition plan that was not implemented.

Again, aqisition of land has nothing to do with this. You made that up.
Unless you can show me proof that land aqiisition was needed for the Jews to declare independence?
Its obvious that without your ' but but but the Jews never acquired the land' lie, your agenda would be severely diminished.

So I'll wait for that elusive link

 

[toastman]

Being a Psychology/Pol. Science major I too can see your persona falls under the inferiority complex...just look at your avatar, nice military setting trying to look like George Patton. But George was a straight shooter not the hypocrite with bells and whistles of who sells an invasion of a peaceful people just because the British decided to declared Belfour like the Pirates they have been throughout their history...

Its not for me Rocco, I call a spade a spade...Western Colonialism will never set amongst the Arabs, they will fight for their lands until they win...

That's what I see if Israel does not accept the UN Resolutions and the terms of the Arab League .

Obviously you could't handle the truth in his post and the reality of the conflict, so you start off your argument with insulting how the man looks in his avatar...
You should not have bothered to have responded to this post, it's obviously beyond what you are capable of processing.
Instead you gave us your usual shtick about how The Arabs will overwhelm Israel with demographics blah blah. Such a crock of drek.

That is a problem with hypocrisy...Rocco can call me narcissistic but replying in kind is wrong. Go sit in a corner...

As far as my long-term analysis: I think if you look at the history and the numbers, there is no other outcome unless Israel is truly accepted in the neighborhood.

Ahh so you made that comment out of revenge... Nice

Either way, you addressed nothing that he said

 

[Victory67]

A. The Mandate has expired.

B. The Mandate did not give Palestine exclusively to the Jews. It clearly stated that a Jewish homeland would be created but non-Jews would be present in said homeland.

 

[Victory67]

A. The Mandate has expired.

B. The Mandate did not give Palestine exclusively to the Jews. It clearly stated that a Jewish homeland would be created but non-Jews would be present in said homeland.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The PpPp is often heard to complain about "invasion!" Yet little is it remembered that the that on mid-night 14/15 May 1948, UK (Mandatory) relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. And, simultaneously, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The Jewish Agency was a part of the mandate and served at the pleasure of the mandate. Without the mandate it had no function or legal status in Palestine.

There was never a formal acquisition of the land proposed for a Jewish state by Israel. That was part of the suggested, non binding partition plan that was not implemented.

Again, aqisition of land has nothing to do with this. You made that up.
Unless you can show me proof that land aqiisition was needed for the Jews to declare independence?
Its obvious that without your ' but but but the Jews never acquired the land' lie, your agenda would be severely diminished.

So I'll wait for that elusive link

ARTICLE 1

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a ) a permanent population; b ) a defined territory; c ) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

A people need a defined territory to declare statehood.

 

[natstew]

Israel, the Jewish State, was not created by the U.N. in 1947 or any other year. It was reclaimed by the Jews in 1947. The first 'Nation State' to ever exist in the area between Egypt and Syria, (Assyria), and the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea was the Kingdom of Israel. There have always been, "Children Of Israel" living in the above described Land. Before Israel, there were only tribes and city states in the land ran by tyrants and despots. 'Jews', 'Children Of Israel' (Abraham was renamed Israel by God) have had a constant presence in the Promised Land since they returned from their sojourn in Egypt and conquered the uncivilized tribes and city-states in the area. Even after the Roman Diaspora there was a sizable presence of Jews in The Holy Land. They never officially gave it up and are still the most historical owners of the before described Land.
History didn't start with the U.N. Words on paper are just that, 'words on paper'.
If not for the oil wealth, the Arabs would still be wiping their asses by dragging them on the ground like the dogs they are, so called, "Palestinians" included.

 

[Phoenall]

sykes-picot, balfour, mandate article IV, peel, UN 181

You have misread all of those agreemants, declarations, and resolutions.

None of them give all of Palestine to the Jews exclusively.

San Remo conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The San Remo conference was an international meeting of the post-World War I Allied Supreme Council, held at Villa Devachan in Sanremo, Italy, from 19 to 26 April 1920. It was attended by the four Principal Allied Powers of World War I who were represented by the prime ministers of Britain (David Lloyd George), France (Alexandre Millerand) and Italy (Francesco Nitti) and by Japan's Ambassador K. Matsui

Resolutions passed at this conference determined the allocation of Class "A" League of Nations mandates for administration of the former Ottoman-ruled lands of the Middle East.

The precise boundaries of all territories were left unspecified, to "be determined by the Principal Allied Powers," and were not finalized until four years later. The conference decisions were embodied in the Treaty of Sèvres (Section VII, Art 94-97). As Turkey rejected this treaty, the conference's decisions with regard to the Palestine mandate were finally confirmed by the Council of the League of Nations on 24 July 1922.

The decisions of the San Remo conference confirmed the mandate allocations of the First Conference of London (February 1920). The San Remo Resolution adopted on 25 April 1920 incorporated the Balfour Declaration of 1917. It and Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations were the basic documents upon which the British Mandate for Palestine was constructed. Under the Balfour Declaration, the British government had undertaken to favour the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine without prejudice to the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. Britain received the mandate for Palestine and Iraq; France gained control of Syria, including present-day Lebanon. Under the agreement, Great Britain granted France 25 percent of the oil production from Mosul and France undertook to deliver oil to the Mediterranean. The draft peace agreement with Turkey signed at the conference became the basis for the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres. Germany was called upon to carry out its military and reparation obligations under the Versailles Treaty, and a resolution was adopted in favor of restoring trade with Russia.[12]

Recognizing that not all parts of the Middle East were ready for full independence, mandates were established for the government of three territories: Syria and Lebanon, Mesopotamia (Iraq) and Palestine. In each case, one of the Allied Powers was assigned to implement the mandate until the territories in question could "stand alone."

 

[Phoenall]

The PpPp is often heard to complain about "invasion!" Yet little is it remembered that the that on mid-night 14/15 May 1948, UK (Mandatory) relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. And, simultaneously, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The Jewish Agency was a part of the mandate and served at the pleasure of the mandate. Without the mandate it had no function or legal status in Palestine.

There was never a formal acquisition of the land proposed for a Jewish state by Israel. That was part of the suggested, non binding partition plan that was not implemented.

The UN by prior arrangement, which means the UN then became the mandatory power. So the Jewish agency was still part of the mandate after Britain handed the reins to the UN. The land was officially mandated land under the power of Britain who gave it to the Jews. The partition plan was an either/or state of affairs so only needed one party to agree to the terms for it to be implemented. Because Israel did this on May 14 1948 the partition plan was accepted as being fulfilled under INTERNATIONAL LAW. They also showed the abilty to free determination so were accepted as a nation by the UN. The Palestinians showed no such ability so lost the chance to become a nation until 1988 on much less land than originally planned.

 

[Phoenall]

A. The Mandate has expired.

B. The Mandate did not give Palestine exclusively to the Jews. It clearly stated that a Jewish homeland would be created but non-Jews would be present in said homeland.

Yes the mandate expired, but not until Israel had been recognised by the UN as a Jewish state.

The mandate did give all of Palestine to the Jews as their homeland, and if they wanted non Jews could live there in peace as full citizens.

This is were the whole thing collapses as the non Jews decided to invade AND STEAL ALL THE LAND. This left them with a major defeat and nothing to show for it. Today there are non Jews living in the Jewish nation of Israel as Equals under the law, they have more rights than the Jews as they don't have to do national service and they are allowed to teach their children differently.

So were is the difficulty in the non Jews living in Israel ?

 

[Phoenall]

OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The Jewish Agency was a part of the mandate and served at the pleasure of the mandate. Without the mandate it had no function or legal status in Palestine.

There was never a formal acquisition of the land proposed for a Jewish state by Israel. That was part of the suggested, non binding partition plan that was not implemented.

Again, aqisition of land has nothing to do with this. You made that up.
Unless you can show me proof that land aqiisition was needed for the Jews to declare independence?
Its obvious that without your ' but but but the Jews never acquired the land' lie, your agenda would be severely diminished.

So I'll wait for that elusive link

ARTICLE 1

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a ) a permanent population; b ) a defined territory; c ) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

A people need a defined territory to declare statehood.

Yes it seems so, just like Israel had the defined territory under the partition plan so could declare independence. The Palestinians forgot about that when they tried in 1949, and failed.

 

[RoccoR]

Phoenall, P F Tinmore, et al,

Our friend "Phoenall" is essentially correct in the salient points.

The PpPp is often heard to complain about "invasion!" Yet little is it remembered that the that on mid-night 14/15 May 1948, UK (Mandatory) relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. And, simultaneously, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The Jewish Agency was a part of the mandate and served at the pleasure of the mandate. Without the mandate it had no function or legal status in Palestine.

There was never a formal acquisition of the land proposed for a Jewish state by Israel. That was part of the suggested, non binding partition plan that was not implemented.

The UN by prior arrangement, which means the UN then became the mandatory power. So the Jewish agency was still part of the mandate after Britain handed the reins to the UN. The land was officially mandated land under the power of Britain who gave it to the Jews. The partition plan was an either/or state of affairs so only needed one party to agree to the terms for it to be implemented. Because Israel did this on May 14 1948 the partition plan was accepted as being fulfilled under INTERNATIONAL LAW. They also showed the abilty to free determination so were accepted as a nation by the UN. The Palestinians showed no such ability so lost the chance to become a nation until 1988 on much less land than originally planned.

(COMMENT)

• OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The UK relinquished its Mandate to the Successor Government, the UN Palestine Commission, which then implemented the Jewish Agency acceptance of General Assembly Resolution 181(II) "guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue;" in the GA adopted "steps preparatory to independence."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The UK relinquished its Mandate to the Successor Government, the UN Palestine Commission, which then implemented the Jewish Agency acceptance of General Assembly Resolution 181(II) "guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue;" in the GA adopted "steps preparatory to independence."

When did the UNPC offer and Israel accept a defined territory?

You have a link to that agreement, no?

 

[aris2chat]

A. The Mandate has expired.

B. The Mandate did not give Palestine exclusively to the Jews. It clearly stated that a Jewish homeland would be created but non-Jews would be present in said homeland.

Israel is not exclusively jewish. All faith are free worship.

>>Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Druzeism and the Bahá'í Faith. Furthermore, the law formally recognizes ten separate sects of Christianity: the Roman, Armenian, Maronite, Greek, Syriac, and Chaldean Catholic Churches; the Eastern Orthodox Greek Orthodox Church; the Oriental Orthodox Syriac Orthodox Church; the Armenian Apostolic Church; and Anglicanism.
Members of unrecognized religions are free to practice their religion. <<
http://www1.cbs.gov.il/shnaton57/st02_01.pdf

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The offer was not made by the UNPC, but by the Resolution. The UNPC was the implementing agency. The Israeli Declaration of Independence was the formal acceptance through the implemented protocols of the UNPC and the Resolution.

OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The UK relinquished its Mandate to the Successor Government, the UN Palestine Commission, which then implemented the Jewish Agency acceptance of General Assembly Resolution 181(II) "guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue;" in the GA adopted "steps preparatory to independence."

When did the UNPC offer and Israel accept a defined territory?

You have a link to that agreement, no?

(COMMENT)

The boundaries, as stipulated in the resolution became alter through the combat results of the invasion by seven Arab States including six Members of the United Nations.

The issue of territorial boundaries was debated in the UN prior to the adoption of General Assembly Resolution 273 (III) (Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations). You will note that Resolution 273(III) refers to "declarations and explanations" which refers to the Application of Israel for admission to membership in the United Nations [(A/818)(A/AC.24/SR.45 5 May 1949)] which discusses at length the General Assembly's deliberations on the matter of territorial boundaries and the reasons why the Assembly accepted the post-Conflict submission as presented in May 1949. Since then, two other major conflicts have erupted, further altering the landscape and ground truth over control.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

OK, the British relinquished its mandate to whom?

The Jewish Agency was a part of the mandate and served at the pleasure of the mandate. Without the mandate it had no function or legal status in Palestine.

There was never a formal acquisition of the land proposed for a Jewish state by Israel. That was part of the suggested, non binding partition plan that was not implemented.

Again, aqisition of land has nothing to do with this. You made that up.
Unless you can show me proof that land aqiisition was needed for the Jews to declare independence?
Its obvious that without your ' but but but the Jews never acquired the land' lie, your agenda would be severely diminished.

So I'll wait for that elusive link

ARTICLE 1

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a ) a permanent population; b ) a defined territory; c ) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

A people need a defined territory to declare statehood.

Those are rights and duties of states, not about declaring statehood. Also, all the land inside the green line is Israels defined territory.

 

[pbel]

Obviously you could't handle the truth in his post and the reality of the conflict, so you start off your argument with insulting how the man looks in his avatar...
You should not have bothered to have responded to this post, it's obviously beyond what you are capable of processing.
Instead you gave us your usual shtick about how The Arabs will overwhelm Israel with demographics blah blah. Such a crock of drek.

That is a problem with hypocrisy...Rocco can call me narcissistic but replying in kind is wrong. Go sit in a corner...

As far as my long-term analysis: I think if you look at the history and the numbers, there is no other outcome unless Israel is truly accepted in the neighborhood.

Ahh so you made that comment out of revenge... Nice

Either way, you addressed nothing that he said

Spara Spara, cara Spara...An old Sicilian adage...if being shot at shoot back!

I was surprised that our Rocco would get personal...

 

[toastman]

That is a problem with hypocrisy...Rocco can call me narcissistic but replying in kind is wrong. Go sit in a corner...

As far as my long-term analysis: I think if you look at the history and the numbers, there is no other outcome unless Israel is truly accepted in the neighborhood.

Ahh so you made that comment out of revenge... Nice

Either way, you addressed nothing that he said

Spara Spara, cara Spara...An old Sicilian adage...if being shot at shoot back!

I was surprised that our Rocco would get personal...

Guess what Im eating right now...

 

[pbel]

Ahh so you made that comment out of revenge... Nice

Either way, you addressed nothing that he said

Spara Spara, cara Spara...An old Sicilian adage...if being shot at shoot back!

I was surprised that our Rocco would get personal...

Guess what Im eating right now...

Pizza and Lox topping.