I will not Bow!

[Roudy]

Israel is what causes bloodshed in the ME Pbel, is that what you just said??

Yes, as the vanguard to Western Imperialism that gives the Sheiks, kings and dictators their corrupt money and robs the average person a decent living...

That's why they revolt Toast...

And probably Israel is the reason Muslims have been slaughtering each other and others before 1948. Ha ha ha.

 

[pbel]

The mind of the pro Palestinian anti Zionist is a complex one

There is nothing complex, Toast...I'm neither Pro-Palestinian or anti-Zionist, but I do have a dislike for the extremists on both sides...

Go back to the 67 armistice lines gain recognition and the war will collapse before the Jihadists take over all countries.

This conflict has spread well beyond the borders of Palestine, and they are winning the hearts of their people.

Nothing stops the march of History.

Going back to the 67 borders, which BTW were never recognized in the first place, will stop the killing and all the other things I said as well as extremists recognizing the existence of Israel?? What are you talking about

Does it matter what was? A deal is on the table for peace...The UN has approved those borders by recognizing Palestine as a non-member observer state...If Peace fails the UN will recognize Palestine with full status and membership and Israel will be further boycotted and censured.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Does it matter what was?..."

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905

Israel has tried 'Land for Peace' deals before.

Those never work out very well.

I think they've learned their lesson.

No point in skedaddling back to the 1967 lines, when there will simply be more demands after a brief interlude.

Bottom line: the Arabs will not be content until they have it all.

Israel requires ownership and control of the entire region - River to Sea - the white area on the map, below...

...in order to have defensible borders that can be sustained for centuries and generations.

And they are going to get them.

They've heard the land-for-peace bullshit once too often.

Can't blame 'em for laughing at such, nowadays.

That window of opportunity closed quite some time ago.

Unlike their Palestinian counterparts, the Israelis are not fools.

 

[pbel]

"...Does it matter what was?..."

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905

Israel has tried 'Land for Peace' deals before.

Those never work out very well.

I think they've learned their lesson.

No point in skedaddling back to the 1967 lines, when there will simply be more demands after a brief interlude.

Bottom line: the Arabs will not be content until they have it all.

Israel requires ownership and control of the entire region - River to Sea - the white area on the map, below...

...in order to have defensible borders that can be sustained for centuries and generations.

And they are going to get them.

They've heard the land-for-peace bullshit once too often.

Can't blame 'em for laughing at such, nowadays.

That window of opportunity closed quite some time ago.

Unlike their Palestinian counterparts, the Israelis are not fools.

To be honest you're beginning to sound like Daffy Duck if you think the Israelis are going to shoot up the Palestinians out of the Occupied territories.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Does it matter what was?..."

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905

Israel has tried 'Land for Peace' deals before.

Those never work out very well.

I think they've learned their lesson.

No point in skedaddling back to the 1967 lines, when there will simply be more demands after a brief interlude.

Bottom line: the Arabs will not be content until they have it all.

Israel requires ownership and control of the entire region - River to Sea - the white area on the map, below...

...in order to have defensible borders that can be sustained for centuries and generations.

And they are going to get them.

They've heard the land-for-peace bullshit once too often.

Can't blame 'em for laughing at such, nowadays.

That window of opportunity closed quite some time ago.

Unlike their Palestinian counterparts, the Israelis are not fools.

To be honest you'er beginning to sound like Daffy Duck if you think the Israelis are going to shoot up the Palestinians out of the Occupied territories.

Nahhhhhhh...

Just a continuation and expansion of the present Evict-and-Expel process that has been underway now for many years...

A process which, according to the Palestinians own propaganda maps, is already fairly close to completion...

Wake me up when you've reversed that process...

Although that might prove a little tricky, considering that it's already the 4th Quarter, you're down 48-0, no time-outs left, and 50 seconds left to play on the game-clock...

Tick... tick... tick...

 

[toastman]

There is nothing complex, Toast...I'm neither Pro-Palestinian or anti-Zionist, but I do have a dislike for the extremists on both sides...

Go back to the 67 armistice lines gain recognition and the war will collapse before the Jihadists take over all countries.

This conflict has spread well beyond the borders of Palestine, and they are winning the hearts of their people.

Nothing stops the march of History.

Going back to the 67 borders, which BTW were never recognized in the first place, will stop the killing and all the other things I said as well as extremists recognizing the existence of Israel?? What are you talking about

Does it matter what was? A deal is on the table for peace...The UN has approved those borders by recognizing Palestine as a non-member observer state...If Peace fails the UN will recognize Palestine with full status and membership and Israel will be further boycotted and censured.

A deal was on the Table in 1993 as well... And in 2000... And in 2008.. All of them were REJECTED Pbel.

Boycotts will do little harm to Israel and they certainly wont force Israel to shrink her territory for yet ANOTHER Muslim Arab state.

Also, the 67 borders is only some of what they are asking for. They want right of return which would DEFINITELY damage the Jewish State. Then there's release of prisoners post Oslo accords.

 

[Billo_Really]

Let's put it this way, Pbel. You have always been thought of by many as loco en la cabeza. So tell us, Pbel, when are you ever going to contribute anything about what is happening to the Middle East in general. People are being murdered there all the time just because of their religious beliefs. I guess all those dead people mean nothing to you as long as you have the chance to castigate Israel.

Why do you find it so hard to castigate Israel, on things Israel should be castigated about?

 

[pbel]

Going back to the 67 borders, which BTW were never recognized in the first place, will stop the killing and all the other things I said as well as extremists recognizing the existence of Israel?? What are you talking about

Does it matter what was? A deal is on the table for peace...The UN has approved those borders by recognizing Palestine as a non-member observer state...If Peace fails the UN will recognize Palestine with full status and membership and Israel will be further boycotted and censured.

A deal was on the Table in 1993 as well... And in 2000... And in 2008.. All of them were REJECTED Pbel.

Boycotts will do little harm to Israel and they certainly wont force Israel to shrink her territory for yet ANOTHER Muslim Arab state.

Also, the 67 borders is only some of what they are asking for. They want right of return which would DEFINITELY damage the Jewish State. Then there's release of prisoners post Oslo accords.

No massive right of return is proper especially since Sephardic Jews were expelled from Arabic countries. I thought Abbas moderated that claim/.

 

[Sally]

Let's put it this way, Pbel. You have always been thought of by many as loco en la cabeza. So tell us, Pbel, when are you ever going to contribute anything about what is happening to the Middle East in general. People are being murdered there all the time just because of their religious beliefs. I guess all those dead people mean nothing to you as long as you have the chance to castigate Israel.

Why do you find it so hard to castigate Israel, on things Israel should be castigated about?

Oh Billy, you must think that all the readers are so stupid that they can't see right through you. I have always said that no country in the world is perfect, including Israel. However, do you see the killing going on like you see in the other Middle East countries? Perhaps you feel it is best that you as a Catholic should just close your eyes to all the Catholics who have been and are still being killed there. If the Jews are not involved, you don't want to waste your time on dead Catholic bodies or wounded and refugee Catholics even though others care what is happening to them.

 

[toastman]

Does it matter what was? A deal is on the table for peace...The UN has approved those borders by recognizing Palestine as a non-member observer state...If Peace fails the UN will recognize Palestine with full status and membership and Israel will be further boycotted and censured.

A deal was on the Table in 1993 as well... And in 2000... And in 2008.. All of them were REJECTED Pbel.

Boycotts will do little harm to Israel and they certainly wont force Israel to shrink her territory for yet ANOTHER Muslim Arab state.

Also, the 67 borders is only some of what they are asking for. They want right of return which would DEFINITELY damage the Jewish State. Then there's release of prisoners post Oslo accords.

No massive right of return is proper especially since Sephardic Jews were expelled from Arabic countries. I thought Abbas moderated that claim/.

Did he? I must have missed it if so

 

[Roudy]

Does it matter what was? A deal is on the table for peace...The UN has approved those borders by recognizing Palestine as a non-member observer state...If Peace fails the UN will recognize Palestine with full status and membership and Israel will be further boycotted and censured.

A deal was on the Table in 1993 as well... And in 2000... And in 2008.. All of them were REJECTED Pbel.

Boycotts will do little harm to Israel and they certainly wont force Israel to shrink her territory for yet ANOTHER Muslim Arab state.

Also, the 67 borders is only some of what they are asking for. They want right of return which would DEFINITELY damage the Jewish State. Then there's release of prisoners post Oslo accords.

No massive right of return is proper especially since Sephardic Jews were expelled from Arabic countries. I thought Abbas moderated that claim/.

Hah? How so? Abbas didn't do JACK, nor can he do. He's not in any leadership position in those countries nor can he influence their decisions. The Jews who were expelled have moved on a long time ago, and now lead successful lives mostly. They wouldn't go back to those shitholes if you paid them. No thanks.

Palestinians? 60 years and still whining and blaming Jews for a predicament only they and their Arab brethren are to blame for.

 

[Roudy]

Let's put it this way, Pbel. You have always been thought of by many as loco en la cabeza. So tell us, Pbel, when are you ever going to contribute anything about what is happening to the Middle East in general. People are being murdered there all the time just because of their religious beliefs. I guess all those dead people mean nothing to you as long as you have the chance to castigate Israel.

Why do you find it so hard to castigate Israel, on things Israel should be castigated about?

How about you start by castigating Palestinians for their savagery, terrorism, and barbarism, Mr. big mouth.

 

[Phoenall]

I have a sense of humor Sally, but sadly you're airhead numero uno.

Let's put it this way, Pbel. You have always been thought of by many as loco en la cabeza. So tell us, Pbel, when are you ever going to contribute anything about what is happening to the Middle East in general. People are being murdered there all the time just because of their religious beliefs. I guess all those dead people mean nothing to you as long as you have the chance to castigate Israel.

What is happening in the Arab awakening is that the people of the region want to kick out all the Dictators kings and sheiks whose corruptions have robbed these people of a decent life...The USA, Israel and the Sheiks have colluded together to keep them in line...

This is the core of the revolt and it will never be stopped by anyone....

When the dust clears in 20-30 years the Arab Masses will prosper...that prosperity of the future is a bad omen for Israel whom the people hate because she colluded to keep them down.

The people behind the revolt are even worse dictators than the ones they are trying to oust. The people see what they are and don't want them, so the new dictators just kill them out of hand. The whole of the M.E will soon turn into one big extremist Islamic shit hole and the world will do nothing when they start dying. When they have killed everyone and find that their supporters are against them in less than 5 years then the blood will start flowing again, only this time it will be that of the extremists and terrorist murderers. The problem is that islam is still living in the 7c, while many muslims have tasted the fruit of modern living and will not want to go back to a backward state of existence.
Nothing at all to do with Israel, it is all down to their disgusting violent religious beliefs.

 

[Phoenall]

What is happening in the Arab awakening is that the people of the region want to kick out all the Dictators kings and sheiks whose corruptions have robbed these people of a decent life...The USA, Israel and the Sheiks have colluded together to keep them in line...

This is the core of the revolt and it will never be stopped by anyone....

When the dust clears in 20-30 years the Arab Masses will prosper...that prosperity of the future is a bad omen for Israel whom the people hate because she colluded to keep them down.

Yes, Pbel, that is why the extremists have claimed that Syria is the stepping stone for the brand new Caiphate. This is also why you see these Jihadists coming into Syria from all parts of the world. Since you have had nothing to say about how some of those extremists are pushing the Christians into Dhimmitude in Syria, maybe you, too, are looking forward to becoming a Dhimmi. Have you ever thought that the Musslim masses in the Middle East as well as places like Southeast Asia might prosper if they would stop being so busy murdering those Muslims of different sects as well as those who are non Muslims? Wouldn't it be better for them to concentrate on education in the 21st century instead of them plotting to kill innocent others. Perhaps in time (hopefully with my fingers crossed) in the Muslim world, the people will wake up that if you have tolerance in religion and concentrate into pulling your people into the modern world instead of killing, they might be better off.

Such nice morality but say nothing about Israeli land thefts or Western Imperialism in the ME that causes this bloodshed...

Like the Revolutions of 1848 in Europe which threw out all the kings save England, the ME will too achieve this Political development soon...

At a cost the proposed caliphate can not afford, the deaths of many hundreds of millions of muslims at the hands of Islamic fundementalists trying to send the world of islam back to the 7c. So they are destined to fail when many muslims leave their homelands and give up islam.

 

[Phoenall]

Israel is what causes bloodshed in the ME Pbel, is that what you just said??

Yes, as the vanguard to Western Imperialism that gives the Sheiks, kings and dictators their corrupt money and robs the average person a decent living...

That's why they revolt Toast...

So the bloodshed, murders, rapes and violence from 627C.E. till 1900 were all down to Israel. Or was it the commands of a false god and a mentally unstable prophet that caused the bloodshed, murders, rapes and violence from 627 C.E till the present day. The facts speak for themselves in the Islamic world were places with no contact with Israel are embroiled in violent civil wars for the sake of power over islam .

IT IS ISLAM AT FAULT AND TO BLAME FOR THE BLOODSHED, ISRAEL IS JUST THE EXCUSE. NOT THAT THE MUSLIMS NEED AN EXCUSE AFTER 1400 YEARS OF VILE PRACTISES.

 

[Phoenall]

Such nice morality but say nothing about Israeli land thefts or Western Imperialism in the ME that causes this bloodshed...

Like the Revolutions of 1848 in Europe which threw out all the kings save England, the ME will too achieve this Political development soon...

Pbel, you are not really fooling anyone, and that is why whatever you say is just fluffed off as being the same old, same old stuff you have been saying for years. If there were no Jews governing Israel, the Muslims would hate them all the same. They have hated them since the inception of Islam. Aris seems to be the one educated in all of this, being brough up in the Middle East. Ask her about this since she has studied this phenomena for a long time. I realize you are salivating over the possible fall of Israel, and it is quite obvious that you don't care about the thousands and thousands (even millions) killed in the name of Islam since you can't blame the Jews or America for this. Do you really think all those suicide and car bombings in Pakistan, for instance, have anything to do with Israel or the U.S. or have they to do with one sect hating the other sect?

Oh Sally, when you keep attacking the messenger rather than the message, or fly off on a tangent in Pakistan and dwell on hate rather than Justice by ignoring all UN resolutions and even USA pressure on the occupation, I repeat the illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, I can understand your frustration and motive.

Who is it that refuses to abide by treaties that are binding and do not allow any belligerence. The Oslo accords called on both side to do certain things, Israel complied with the first part and the muslims have refused to comply with their part.
The occupation of Palestine is not illegal and this has been proven to you and the other ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDISTS many times. The Geneva conventions state that Israel is legally allowed to occupy the land as a means of defence, and can treat the inhabitants as hostile if they are belligerent. Not a peep about the illegal occupation of the land of Lebanon by the Palestinian terrorists, now why is this

 

[Phoenall]

Oh Sally, when you keep attacking the messenger rather than the message, or fly off on a tangent in Pakistan and dwell on hate rather than Justice by ignoring all UN resolutions and even USA pressure on the occupation, I repeat the illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, I can understand your frustration and motive.

But you see, Pbel, many of us who have been reading you a long, long time know you and realize that you are only focused on Israel and never have really been interested in what is happening elsewhere no matter how many dead bodies are lying on the ground because of being murdered for their religious beliefs. You might think you are fooling everyone, but you really aren't.

Why does it matter what I'm focused on pray tell...would my focus change veracity in my posts?

It is more that just being focused it is being fixated to the point of uncontrollable hatred that has blinded you to the reality. The fault lies in Islam's 7c mindset and beliefs that allah gave the world to the muslims. The commands he made as if from the muslims false god to "KILL THE JEWS" because they refused to lay down in the dirt and worship him as god. That is were your fixation and hatred comes from, the false words of a false prophet. If you were not so hateful you would see that the problem is not Israel defending against Islamic terrorism and hate, but the Islamic terrorism and hate.

 

[Phoenall]

Why does it matter what I'm focused on pray tell...would my focus change veracity in my posts?

I would think that a person who is supposedly civilized would also focus on those unfortunate people who are being murdered for their religious beliefs in the Middle East. It appears that you do not care what happened to them and is still happening. Anyhow, since you are so hot about the Arab uprisings, why not give us your opinion as to what is going to happen in Morocco? Do you think that King Mohammed will be able to hold on to his throne or do you think the Islamists will eventually take over there? In addition, what do you think about the Russian Jihadists now in Syria excuting people? Don't you think they would have enough to do murdering innocent Russians than to run to Syria to kill people?

Try to look at this mess like a Political Scientist, Sally...Christian Society had many religious wars in the middle ages...almost all societies have stupid religious wars...

Islam has not developed into democracies mainly because the ruling Sheiks exploited the wealth of their nations with corruption...All these revolts are about them and secondly Israel because she has colluded with the Dictators to keep them in line and poor.

Political evolutionary pressure has caused the Arab Awakening...

So if Isreal is destroyed in the next decade who will you then blame for the problems in islam. Will it be the Christians, or the Hindus, Sikhs, Janes, Buddists and Shinto that are the cause of the problems. The problem is the extremist muslims want ultimate power over all of islam, and they know that democracy is not the way to achieve this. Look at iran that is allegedly a democratic Islamic nation, the elections are for the ayotollahs chosen people and not for the peoples choice. That is Islamic extremist democracy in action and what the arab spring is really all about.

 

[Phoenall]

Try to look at this mess like a Political Scientist, Sally...Christian Society had many religious wars in the middle ages...almost all societies have stupid religious wars...

Islam has not developed into democracies mainly because the ruling Sheiks exploited the wealth of their nations with corruption...All these revolts are about them and secondly Israel because she has colluded with the Dictators to keep them in line and poor.

Political evolutionary pressure has caused the Arab wakening...

This is the 21st century, Pbel. I don't think we see Christians killing each other because of their differing religious beliefs. If you see Catholics killing Protestants or Greek Orthodox, will you let ue know? Haven't you kept up with what many of the Muslim religious leaders are saying -- that Islam is not compatible with Democracy -- and the people listen to these leaders. Perhaps you can be the one to convince them to change their minds. I wonder if Pbel can prove to us from some legitimate site where it is reported that Israel has "colluded" with the dictators to keep the people in line and poor. Do you have some source for what you are claiming, Pbel?

Many activists like myself can read between the lines...

Beacon Broadside: Middle EastBrokers of Deceit: How the U.S. Has Undermined Peace in the Middle East

KHALIDI-BrokersOfDeceitAn examination of the failure of the United States as a broker in the Palestinian-Israeli peace process, through three key historical moments

For more than seven decades the conflict between Israel and the Palestinian people has raged on with no end in sight, and for much of that time, the United States has been involved as a mediator in the conflict. In this book, acclaimed historian Rashid Khalidi zeroes in on the United States's role as the purported impartial broker in this failed peace process.

Khalidi closely analyzes three historical moments that illuminate how the United States' involvement has, in fact, thwarted progress toward peace between Israel and Palestine. The first moment he investigates is the "Reagan Plan" of 1982, when Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin refused to accept the Reagan administration's proposal to reframe the Camp David Accords more impartially. The second moment covers the period after the Madrid Peace Conference, from 1991 to 1993, during which negotiations between Israel and Palestine were brokered by the United States until the signing of the secretly negotiated Oslo accords. Finally, Khalidi takes on President Barack Obama's retreat from plans to insist on halting the settlements in the West Bank.

And you hit the nail on the head when you said activists and then linked to an extremist Islamic author of subversive literature. It is you and the likes of this author that are deceitful and do not want peace. Peace serves no part in your plans of genocidal conquest of the world in the name of allah and Mohamed, you just want to see blood running in the gutters so you can lap it up.

 

[Phoenall]

there is nothing complex, toast...i'm neither pro-palestinian or anti-zionist, but i do have a dislike for the extremists on both sides...

Go back to the 67 armistice lines gain recognition and the war will collapse before the jihadists take over all countries.

This conflict has spread well beyond the borders of palestine, and they are winning the hearts of their people.

Nothing stops the march of history.

going back to the 67 borders, which btw were never recognized in the first place, will stop the killing and all the other things i said as well as extremists recognizing the existence of israel?? What are you talking about

does it matter what was? A deal is on the table for peace...the un has approved those borders by recognizing palestine as a non-member observer state...if peace fails the un will recognize palestine with full status and membership and israel will be further boycotted and censured.

how many more times will it take before you stop lying, the un has not approved any borders for palestine because they know they must be negotiated by israel and the plo. The un will never recognise a terrorist entity like palestine, if it did then the un would fold in on itself and be destroyed. If the palestinians cant agree terms then they will fail to exist in the next 10 years, this is the last chance of peace for the terrorist entity.