I was wrong on Pelosi. I side with Leon Panetta.

[WillowTree]

Why worry about Pelosi? Had she screamed to high heavon it would have changed nothing. The Bush admin was determined to torture people, and torture people it did. It also broke the law by trying to frame people, illegally arresting and detaining them without due process. Citizens, not terrorists.

The main players in the Bush admin should have to stand before the Hague.

You don't know that!

 

[Old Rocks]

Absolutely. Put all the documents and photos out in the public domain. Of course there is the little matter of reams of data that was deleted, but I am willing to bet that there are some "private" photos and details that can be had.

And when someone claims that something was prevented with information obtained by torture, make them reveal the specifics. Oh yes, Cheney saying so is hardly proof. We already know the man is serial liar.

 

[WillowTree]

Absolutely. Put all the documents and photos out in the public domain. Of course there is the little matter of reams of data that was deleted, but I am willing to bet that there are some "private" photos and details that can be had.

And when someone claims that something was prevented with information obtained by torture, make them reveal the specifics. Oh yes, Cheney saying so is hardly proof. We already know the man is serial liar.

all you know is what media matters tells you.. and so I can fill my teaspoon up with your knowledge.

 

[sealybobo]

Ah yes,, rathergate, rather printed a story as fact using doctored documents,,

let's move forward with an investigation.. that should eat up about four good years.. but I want no cherry picking,, I want to hear it all..

What about information that could jeopordize soliders and make us less safe?

Or was Cheney/Bush just lying when they said that?

And the document of Bush being MIA in the Reserve was true. The forgery was written/signed by Karl Rove. That's how they knew it was a forgery.

So the Bush team actually gave the forgery to Rather.

Pretty clever huh?

Now lets get back to whether Bush dodged the draft or not. **** Rather.

 

[Old Rocks]

Why worry about Pelosi? Had she screamed to high heavon it would have changed nothing. The Bush admin was determined to torture people, and torture people it did. It also broke the law by trying to frame people, illegally arresting and detaining them without due process. Citizens, not terrorists.

The main players in the Bush admin should have to stand before the Hague.

You don't know that!

All Things Considered, January 6, 2006 · An internal Justice Department report says FBI overconfidence led it to disregard warnings that it had wrongly identified a fingerprint in the Madrid bombing case. Spanish officials tried to tell the FBI that the fingerprint associated with the case didn't match that of Oregon attorney Brandon Mayfield.

The inspector general also found the FBI exhibited bias by clinging to Mayfield as a suspect because he is Muslim and had represented a terrorism suspect.All Things Considered, January 6, 2006 · An internal Justice Department report says FBI overconfidence led it to disregard warnings that it had wrongly identified a fingerprint in the Madrid bombing case. Spanish officials tried to tell the FBI that the fingerprint associated with the case didn't match that of Oregon attorney Brandon Mayfield.

The inspector general also found the FBI exhibited bias by clinging to Mayfield as a suspect because he is Muslim and had represented a terrorism suspect.
All Things Considered, January 6, 2006 · An internal Justice Department report says FBI overconfidence led it to disregard warnings that it had wrongly identified a fingerprint in the Madrid bombing case. Spanish officials tried to tell the FBI that the fingerprint associated with the case didn't match that of Oregon attorney Brandon Mayfield.

The inspector general also found the FBI exhibited bias by clinging to Mayfield as a suspect because he is Muslim and had represented a terrorism suspect.FBI Faulted in Madrid Bombing Fingerprint Error : NPR

 

[WillowTree]

Ah yes,, rathergate, rather printed a story as fact using doctored documents,,

let's move forward with an investigation.. that should eat up about four good years.. but I want no cherry picking,, I want to hear it all..

What about information that could jeopordize soliders and make us less safe?

Or was Cheney/Bush just lying when they said that?

And the document of Bush being MIA in the Reserve was true. The forgery was written/signed by Karl Rove. That's how they knew it was a forgery.

So the Bush team actually gave the forgery to Rather.

Pretty clever huh?

Now lets get back to whether Bush dodged the draft or not. **** Rather.

All of it.. Not just the facts that meet the libral agend to bring bush down.. all of it. and link us to proof positive it was provided by the bush team.. it's the first time i've heard this crazy notion of yours,, god that kool aid is strong this morning innit?

 

[Old Rocks]

Absolutely. Put all the documents and photos out in the public domain. Of course there is the little matter of reams of data that was deleted, but I am willing to bet that there are some "private" photos and details that can be had.

And when someone claims that something was prevented with information obtained by torture, make them reveal the specifics. Oh yes, Cheney saying so is hardly proof. We already know the man is serial liar.

all you know is what media matters tells you.. and so I can fill my teaspoon up with your knowledge.

Ah yes, a good Conservative. When confronted with the truth, resort to personal insults.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ah yes,, rathergate, rather printed a story as fact using doctored documents,,

let's move forward with an investigation.. that should eat up about four good years.. but I want no cherry picking,, I want to hear it all..

What about information that could jeopordize soliders and make us less safe?

Or was Cheney/Bush just lying when they said that?

And the document of Bush being MIA in the Reserve was true. The forgery was written/signed by Karl Rove. That's how they knew it was a forgery.

So the Bush team actually gave the forgery to Rather.

Pretty clever huh?

Now lets get back to whether Bush dodged the draft or not. **** Rather.

All of it.. Not just the facts that meet the libral agend to bring bush down.. all of it. and link us to proof positive it was provided by the bush team.. it's the first time i've heard this crazy notion of yours,, god that kool aid is strong this morning innit?

Bush brought Bush down. Incompetance, greed, lies, and an insatiable thirst for power over the citizens of this nation were what destroyed the Bush admin. Failure at home and abroad, all the while trumpeting it as success in an Orwellian manner, completely turned off all the sane citizens of this nation.

 

[WillowTree]

Absolutely. Put all the documents and photos out in the public domain. Of course there is the little matter of reams of data that was deleted, but I am willing to bet that there are some "private" photos and details that can be had.

And when someone claims that something was prevented with information obtained by torture, make them reveal the specifics. Oh yes, Cheney saying so is hardly proof. We already know the man is serial liar.

all you know is what media matters tells you.. and so I can fill my teaspoon up with your knowledge.

Ah yes, a good Conservative. When confronted with the truth, resort to personal insults.

well unless you are on the inside track in DC my statement is accurate and not intended as a personal insult.

 

[Care4all]

so. the administration DID TORTURE and Pelosi knew about the administration torturing a month or 6 months after the fact when her aid was told?

The question is, DID THE ADMINISTRATION commit a war crime by this water torture?

 

[WillowTree]

What about information that could jeopordize soliders and make us less safe?

Or was Cheney/Bush just lying when they said that?

And the document of Bush being MIA in the Reserve was true. The forgery was written/signed by Karl Rove. That's how they knew it was a forgery.

So the Bush team actually gave the forgery to Rather.

Pretty clever huh?

Now lets get back to whether Bush dodged the draft or not. **** Rather.

All of it.. Not just the facts that meet the libral agend to bring bush down.. all of it. and link us to proof positive it was provided by the bush team.. it's the first time i've heard this crazy notion of yours,, god that kool aid is strong this morning innit?

Bush brought Bush down. Incompetance, greed, lies, and an insatiable thirst for power over the citizens of this nation were what destroyed the Bush admin. Failure at home and abroad, all the while trumpeting it as success in an Orwellian manner, completely turned off all the sane citizens of this nation.

No! Bush is a resounding success. The country did not fail.. therefore Bush did not fail.

 

[midcan5]

The main players in the Bush admin should have to stand before the Hague.

And why would a liberal media work so hard for the GOP like this?

I agree and agree but I do not for one second think media is liberal. I have argued this point on this forum often. Media in this nation is spineless for the most part, they are afraid to be called biased, and because of that everything they write or investigate is lukewarm BS.

Ah yes,, rathergate, rather printed a story as fact using doctored documents,.

Nothing in Rather's commentary has ever been disproved nor will it ever be. Bush was a draft dodger as was Cheney, as were many more, maybe you had to be there but military service scared many people or was an inconvenience for some. This is just another example of Bush et al dishonesty. I know many men who tell me today how they avoided service, actually not many but a few who are honest.

 

[sealybobo]

The main players in the Bush admin should have to stand before the Hague.

And why would a liberal media work so hard for the GOP like this?

I agree and agree but I do not for one second think media is liberal. I have argued this point on this forum often. Media in this nation is spineless for the most part, they are afraid to be called biased, and because of that everything they write or investigate is lukewarm BS.

Ah yes,, rathergate, rather printed a story as fact using doctored documents,.

Nothing in Rather's commentary has ever been disproved nor will it ever be. Bush was a draft dodger as was Cheney, as were many more, maybe you had to be there but military service scared many people or was an inconvenience for some. This is just another example of Bush et al dishonesty. I know many men who tell me today how they avoided service, actually not many but a few who are honest.

The media wasn't lukewarm on Swiftboating John Kerry, Rathergate or Pelosigate, Monicagate or Madrasagate.

What they are doing is letting the GOP control the conversation.

 

[midcan5]

The media wasn't lukewarm on Swiftboating John Kerry, Rathergate or Pelosigate, Monicagate or Madrasagate.

What they are doing is letting the GOP control the conversation.

I agree in part but I think it more of a self filling prophesy news cycle caused by conservative/corporate think tanks, blogs, and media outlets. Witness the repeated nonsense concerning any topic corporate/conservative America doesn't like, UHC, corporate taxes, outsourcing, war spending cutbacks - then witness the tools on this site and many, many others who repeat and repeat till it becomes reality. You only have to ask even today how many still think Iraq was involved in 911 to realize truth is hard to locate. The info is constantly pushed out into the mediasphere where it acquires a life of its own and given 24by7 talk you talk about what is out there.


I wrote this long ago.

'Main stream media (msm) remains neutral or is owned by the right wing corporate powers. Media becomes, you see this already today, a partner of the corporate political structure. In an effort at fairness and balance all news is presented without criticism, while this gives the appearance of truth it allows a confusion of priorities so that partisan spokesmen define the issues. Constant repetition of policy statements or supporting doctrine becomes standard. Truth is a not an issue. Doubt becomes a norm of all comment. Terrorism becomes the background for all policy actions until a replacement foe is required.'

'Dissent is further diminished but should never be totally defeated. As an example consider the liberal media of today, it does not exist but it is essential that the myth be maintained. This creates a tension between what is reported and what should be reported. If the news is good it is accepted if the news is bad it is the liberal media. Bad news or truth can then be ignored. False information is spun out into the mediasphere and it is then referenced as true as it has now become written word. CTT supported radio and blogs further propagate this tension.'

http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/50779-end-of-democracy.html

 

[sealybobo]

The media wasn't lukewarm on Swiftboating John Kerry, Rathergate or Pelosigate, Monicagate or Madrasagate.

What they are doing is letting the GOP control the conversation.

I agree in part but I think it more of a self filling prophesy news cycle caused by conservative/corporate think tanks, blogs, and media outlets. Witness the repeated nonsense concerning any topic corporate/conservative America doesn't like, UHC, corporate taxes, outsourcing, war spending cutbacks - then witness the tools on this site and many, many others who repeat and repeat till it becomes reality. You only have to ask even today how many still think Iraq was involved in 911 to realize truth is hard to locate. The info is constantly pushed out into the mediasphere where it acquires a life of its own and given 24by7 talk you talk about what is out there.


I wrote this long ago.

'Main stream media (msm) remains neutral or is owned by the right wing corporate powers. Media becomes, you see this already today, a partner of the corporate political structure. In an effort at fairness and balance all news is presented without criticism, while this gives the appearance of truth it allows a confusion of priorities so that partisan spokesmen define the issues. Constant repetition of policy statements or supporting doctrine becomes standard. Truth is a not an issue. Doubt becomes a norm of all comment. Terrorism becomes the background for all policy actions until a replacement foe is required.'

'Dissent is further diminished but should never be totally defeated. As an example consider the liberal media of today, it does not exist but it is essential that the myth be maintained. This creates a tension between what is reported and what should be reported. If the news is good it is accepted if the news is bad it is the liberal media. Bad news or truth can then be ignored. False information is spun out into the mediasphere and it is then referenced as true as it has now become written word. CTT supported radio and blogs further propagate this tension.'

http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/50779-end-of-democracy.html

I am looking at an op ed from 2006.

Some exerpts:

But the real issue is whether Republicans in Congress will trade the principles of democracy and the rule of law to keep George W. Bush and several of his colleagues out of jail, or whether they'll uphold the rule of law and American democracy while abandoning him to face the consequences of his illegal acts.

On June 29, 2006, in the Hamdan Case, the US Supreme Court ruled that Donald Rumsfeld and the Bush Administration had violated the Geneva Convention and other international treaties with regard to the treatment and prosecution of detainees in the so-called "war on terror."

The logic of the decision could subject Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, and Rumsfeld - along with those down the chain of command who followed their orders - to prosecution as war criminals both in the United States and internationally. If they violated Common Article 3 and others of the Geneva Conventions, they could be subject to lengthy imprisonment in the US for violating US laws, as well as being brought before the United Nation's International Court of Justice at The Hague, the same as Slobodan Milosevic.

A plain English translation would be close to: "The Supreme Court said we've broken US law, we've broken the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and we've broken the Geneva Conventions' Common Article 3."

Many of these same Republicans, remember, were pushing hard for jail time for Bill Clinton for lying to a Grand Jury about having sex in the Oval Office - and were quite vocal about how a president could be both impeached and prosecuted for crimes.

Will they keep him out of federal custody the way his daddy did when Dubya left the Texas Air National Guard to desert the military and go on a year-long drinking binge in Alabama?

About six weeks later, on August 17, 2006, Federal Judge Anna Diggs Taylor ruled in Detroit that George W. Bush and his administration had committed numerous felonies with regard to wiretapping American citizens without a legal warrant, including violating the FISA act (which carries a 5-year prison term as the penalty for each violation) and violating the Constitution (which carries impeachment as its penalty). Later in the day, the Department of Homeland Security facilitated the arrest in Thailand of John Mark Karr for killing JonBenet Ramsey, sweeping the story off the front page and out of the weekend news analysis shows, but the ruling is still there.

Thus the spin. And the compromises. And the debates within the Republican Party. And the corporate media's efforts to limit the discussion to the "wiretapping debate" and the "prisoner interrogation/torture debate."

Scratch the veneer off, though, and you quickly see that this is really about keeping George out of jail.

Reclaiming The Issues: "Keep George Out Of Jail"

 

[sealybobo]

The media wasn't lukewarm on Swiftboating John Kerry, Rathergate or Pelosigate, Monicagate or Madrasagate.

What they are doing is letting the GOP control the conversation.

I agree in part but I think it more of a self filling prophesy news cycle caused by conservative/corporate think tanks, blogs, and media outlets. Witness the repeated nonsense concerning any topic corporate/conservative America doesn't like, UHC, corporate taxes, outsourcing, war spending cutbacks - then witness the tools on this site and many, many others who repeat and repeat till it becomes reality. You only have to ask even today how many still think Iraq was involved in 911 to realize truth is hard to locate. The info is constantly pushed out into the mediasphere where it acquires a life of its own and given 24by7 talk you talk about what is out there.


I wrote this long ago.

'Main stream media (msm) remains neutral or is owned by the right wing corporate powers. Media becomes, you see this already today, a partner of the corporate political structure. In an effort at fairness and balance all news is presented without criticism, while this gives the appearance of truth it allows a confusion of priorities so that partisan spokesmen define the issues. Constant repetition of policy statements or supporting doctrine becomes standard. Truth is a not an issue. Doubt becomes a norm of all comment. Terrorism becomes the background for all policy actions until a replacement foe is required.'

'Dissent is further diminished but should never be totally defeated. As an example consider the liberal media of today, it does not exist but it is essential that the myth be maintained. This creates a tension between what is reported and what should be reported. If the news is good it is accepted if the news is bad it is the liberal media. Bad news or truth can then be ignored. False information is spun out into the mediasphere and it is then referenced as true as it has now become written word. CTT supported radio and blogs further propagate this tension.'

http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/50779-end-of-democracy.html

These op ed's are suggesting that the media distracted us when the courts ruled that Bush did break the laws.

That same morning - just hours after the JonBenét information hit the press and just after I got off the air - it was revealed that US District Court Judge Anna Diggs Taylor had ruled that George W. Bush and now-CIA Director Michael Hayden had committed multiple High Crimes, Misdemeanors, and felonies, both criminal and constitutional. If her ruling stands, Bush and Hayden could go to prison.

As Judge Taylor said in her "ACLU v. NSA" decision (available here): "In this case, the President has acted, undisputedly, as FISA [the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] forbids."

JonBenét Died - And Bush Lied?

And instead of talking about it, the media shifted its focus on that creep who lied about killing Jon Benet Ramsey.

 

[DiveCon]

Ah yes,, rathergate, rather printed a story as fact using doctored documents,,

let's move forward with an investigation.. that should eat up about four good years.. but I want no cherry picking,, I want to hear it all..

What about information that could jeopordize soliders and make us less safe?

Or was Cheney/Bush just lying when they said that?

And the document of Bush being MIA in the Reserve was true. The forgery was written/signed by Karl Rove. That's how they knew it was a forgery.

So the Bush team actually gave the forgery to Rather.

Pretty clever huh?

Now lets get back to whether Bush dodged the draft or not. **** Rather.

bobo the moron also believes Bush caused 9/11
so not much credibility for you


also as i explained to you before, Bush was NEVER in action so he could not ever be MIA

 

[sealybobo]

Ah yes,, rathergate, rather printed a story as fact using doctored documents,,

let's move forward with an investigation.. that should eat up about four good years.. but I want no cherry picking,, I want to hear it all..

What about information that could jeopordize soliders and make us less safe?

Or was Cheney/Bush just lying when they said that?

And the document of Bush being MIA in the Reserve was true. The forgery was written/signed by Karl Rove. That's how they knew it was a forgery.

So the Bush team actually gave the forgery to Rather.

Pretty clever huh?

Now lets get back to whether Bush dodged the draft or not. **** Rather.

bobo the moron also believes Bush caused 9/11
so not much credibility for you


also as i explained to you before, Bush was NEVER in action so he could not ever be MIA

Caused or allowed it to happen?

I also love how you guys give Bush the moron a pass for getting hit on 9-11.

**** believing if he "caused it". Your such a partisan ***** you give him a pass for being hit on 9-11.

And BOY OH BOY will you bash Obama if the same thing happens on his watch.

Remember, Obama gets a pass on the first terrorist attack, just like you gave Bush.

And we can say, "hey, he hasn't been hit again". Like you cock suckers did.

Just like Kerry couldn't flip flop but you voted for the KING of flip flops McCain.

Hypocrite.

 

[WillowTree]

we mock you bobo.. you seem to be in yer manic phase!

 

[DiveCon]

What about information that could jeopordize soliders and make us less safe?

Or was Cheney/Bush just lying when they said that?

And the document of Bush being MIA in the Reserve was true. The forgery was written/signed by Karl Rove. That's how they knew it was a forgery.

So the Bush team actually gave the forgery to Rather.

Pretty clever huh?

Now lets get back to whether Bush dodged the draft or not. **** Rather.

bobo the moron also believes Bush caused 9/11
so not much credibility for you


also as i explained to you before, Bush was NEVER in action so he could not ever be MIA

Caused or allowed it to happen?

I also love how you guys give Bush the moron a pass for getting hit on 9-11.

**** believing if he "caused it". Your such a partisan ***** you give him a pass for being hit on 9-11.

And BOY OH BOY will you bash Obama if the same thing happens on his watch.

Remember, Obama gets a pass on the first terrorist attack, just like you gave Bush.

And we can say, "hey, he hasn't been hit again". Like you cock suckers did.

Just like Kerry couldn't flip flop but you voted for the KING of flip flops McCain.

Hypocrite.

uh, no, its you thats the hypocrite
Obama has flopped more than kerry
LOL