CDZ I want to present this in this forum hopefully to get some real dialogue

[Sun Devil 92]

14#300 reply to 24#299

I have yet to see any death counts that are trustworthy enough to use in any calculations. That data is not available.

Did you at some point in recent months, take in enough worldwide pandemic news that caused you personally to avoid contact with strangers, with other new habits to prevent yourself or anyone close to you from getting infected?

Did you read the OP ?

This is about Intellectual Honesty.

You and the others on this thread can't keep your ADD under control.

Maybe you should stay out of the CDZ.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

. The temptation for libs in hospitals to count deaths as Convid-19, to undermine the President is real.

If it’s not “bad” it will not make one bit of difference what “cause of death” libs in hospitals report.

Trump was operating in the real world and he announced he had it under control.

It makes all the difference. If there is not a standardized protocol for determining cause of death the numbers become meaningless other than saying it's a sad thing that they died. In which case the hysteria you're displaying over this issue becomes just as meaningless.

*****SMILE*****

 

[EvMetro]

14#300 reply to 24#299

I have yet to see any death counts that are trustworthy enough to use in any calculations. That data is not available.

Did you at some point in recent months, take in enough worldwide pandemic news that caused you personally to avoid contact with strangers, with other new habits to prevent yourself or anyone close to you from getting infected?

Nothing has changed in my world other than my stocks being worth less than before and of course I see some really weird behavior from people at stores. I do not act any different than before, other than washing my hand between work and home.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

picture says a thousand words;

14#300 reply to 24#299

I have yet to see any death counts that are trustworthy enough to use in any calculations. That data is not available.

Did you at some point in recent months, take in enough worldwide pandemic news that caused you personally to avoid contact with strangers, with other new habits to prevent yourself or anyone close to you from getting infected?

Nothing has changed in my world other than my stocks being worth less than before and of course I see some really weird behavior from people at stores. I do not act any different than before, other than washing my hand between work and home.

If you are over 65 or in close contact with someone who lives with a medical condition the “weird behavior” from informed people in stores may have saved you and your loved ones from infection and some serious complications including death.

If you are younger and in good health it may be no worse than a feeder and a dry cough until your immune system defeats it. But when you get it you could spread the infection to the clerk in the store as an asymptomatic spreader for five days before you get a fever and a cough. It spreads by talking within six feet of each other’s nose and by touching an infected surface then touching your face.

Maybe you live in an isolated rural areas where no outsiders come and go, but just one delivery persons can it in and start community spread. One outsider in a local motel can infect an entire village.

Good Luck.

 

[EvMetro]

picture says a thousand words;

View attachment 323431

14#300 reply to 24#299

I have yet to see any death counts that are trustworthy enough to use in any calculations. That data is not available.

Did you at some point in recent months, take in enough worldwide pandemic news that caused you personally to avoid contact with strangers, with other new habits to prevent yourself or anyone close to you from getting infected?

Nothing has changed in my world other than my stocks being worth less than before and of course I see some really weird behavior from people at stores. I do not act any different than before, other than washing my hand between work and home.

If you are over 65 or in close contact with someone who lives with a medical condition the “weird behavior” from informed people in stores may have saved you and your loved ones from infection and some serious complications including death.

If you are younger and in good health it may be no worse than a feeder and a dry cough until your immune system defeats it. But when you get it you could spread the infection to the clerk in the store as an asymptomatic spreader for five days before you get a fever and a cough. It spreads by talking within six feet of each other’s nose and by touching an infected surface then touching your face.

Maybe you live in an isolated rural areas where no outsiders come and go, but just one delivery persons can it in and start community spread. One outsider in a local motel can infect an entire village.

Good Luck.

Thanks. I have not found any reason to act any different for this year's flu, covid 19. From what I have seen so far, the covid 19 flu is no worse than the flu from any other year. I don't know why so many people are acting so weird about this year's flu.

 

[Correll]

14#296 reply to 14#291 reply to 14#270 re: when will Correll comprehend that it is bad.

So, you seem confused about the difference between an administrator with real world duties and a voter who will judge the results.

No, the personal making the decision has to operate on the fly with limited data.

You do understand that I am not part of NYC government, right? And if I was, I would not tell you.

Not confused at all.

14#267” reply to 14#261

When it is over and we have some time to not only crunch the numbers but to check the numbers and to compare them to the "control" nations that did not react strongly.

When did you set up a control nation? Which one has a New New New York City that had not locked down?

There is no “control group“ and there cannot be to the US.

​

(in an experiment) The group of test subjects left untreated or unexposed to some procedure and then compared with treated subjects in order to validate the results of the test.​

English Wiktionary. Available under CC-BY-SA license.​

So why wait to crunch final numbers to understand the amount of death above normal C19 can and will certainly bring?

Are you social distancing or going about life as normal exactly as you did before? Do you hope to get infected so you can be one of the herd with natural immunity or one who ends up dead on a ventilator if there are any ehen your time comes,

There is no control group with similarity to the US. If you think Sweden is your control group perhaps you should consider it being a control group for locked down Denmark. Both similar in climate, ethnicity and religiosity,
....

Yes, obviously, I would not compare Sweden to the US. Sweden to the Norway, or Findland would be more obvious. Then we could learn from that, how important or NOT, the various steps taken were.

I kind of thought that was obvious to any reasonable person.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Yes, obviously, I would not compare Sweden to the US. Sweden to the Norway, or Findland would be more obvious. Then we could learn from that, how important or NOT, the various steps taken were.

I kind of thought that was obvious to any reasonable person.

Where is the control nation you are waiting for before you can figure out that C19 is killing more people than normal?

 

[Correll]

Yes, obviously, I would not compare Sweden to the US. Sweden to the Norway, or Findland would be more obvious. Then we could learn from that, how important or NOT, the various steps taken were.

I kind of thought that was obvious to any reasonable person.

Where is the control nation you are waiting for before you can figure out that C19 is killing more people than normal?

We were discussing the idea of comparing nations that took strong measures, to those that did not, to see if the strong measures were called for or an overreaction.


Are you conceding that that is reasonable now, and wanting to move on to the next point?


or just changing the subject, to avoid the point we were discussing?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Yes, obviously, I would not compare Sweden to the US. Sweden to the Norway, or Findland would be more obvious. Then we could learn from that, how important or NOT, the various steps taken were.

I kind of thought that was obvious to any reasonable person.

Where is the control nation you are waiting for before you can figure out that C19 is killing more people than normal?

We were discussing the idea of comparing nations that took strong measures, to those that did not, to see if the strong measures were called for or an overreaction.


Are you conceding that that is reasonable now, and wanting to move on to the next point?

or just changing the subject, to avoid the point we were discussing?

NO, you mentioned a ‘control’ nation. There was no such nation set up as a control for comparison to the so called panicked, hysterical reaction here in the US that Trump called a hoax.

You can’t admit that Trump screwed up as a pandemic contrarian who was more concerned for over a month with the sickness of the stock market than with keeping Americans from getting sick and dying.

You still need the “hoax” to be correct which is why you can’t see the truth. People are during in excess of the norm all over the world.

Even when a buffoon like Trump knows he had to erase ‘hoax’ Trump from memory you still can’t admit C19 is bad.

Just listen to ‘panic’ Trump:

The projections are 2 million people. The actual projection was 2.2 million people and if you cut it in half, that would be 1.1 million people. That’s many more. That’s double the Civil War. And if you cut that in half, you’re talking five or 600,000 people. That’s what we lost in the Civil War.”​

Trump now says C19 could have killed more than during the American Civil War.

That’s bad, is it not?

 

[Correll]

Yes, obviously, I would not compare Sweden to the US. Sweden to the Norway, or Findland would be more obvious. Then we could learn from that, how important or NOT, the various steps taken were.

I kind of thought that was obvious to any reasonable person.

Where is the control nation you are waiting for before you can figure out that C19 is killing more people than normal?

We were discussing the idea of comparing nations that took strong measures, to those that did not, to see if the strong measures were called for or an overreaction.


Are you conceding that that is reasonable now, and wanting to move on to the next point?

or just changing the subject, to avoid the point we were discussing?

NO, you mentioned a ‘control’ nation. There was no such nation set up as a control for comparison to the so called panicked, hysterical reaction here in the US that Trump called a hoax.

....

But there are nations that are not reacting as we have, that could be compared to similar nations, near them to learn whether this response was the correct response.


That is what we were talking about, and then you just stopped and tried to change the subject.


I'm open to new subjects, but I just want to know, was that an admission that the comparison of strong reaction vs the "control" reaction will let us know which was the right reaction?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Yes, obviously, I would not compare Sweden to the US. Sweden to the Norway, or Findland would be more obvious. Then we could learn from that, how important or NOT, the various steps taken were.

I kind of thought that was obvious to any reasonable person.

Where is the control nation you are waiting for before you can figure out that C19 is killing more people than normal?

We were discussing the idea of comparing nations that took strong measures, to those that did not, to see if the strong measures were called for or an overreaction.


Are you conceding that that is reasonable now, and wanting to move on to the next point?

or just changing the subject, to avoid the point we were discussing?

NO, you mentioned a ‘control’ nation. There was no such nation set up as a control for comparison to the so called panicked, hysterical reaction here in the US that Trump called a hoax.

....

But there are nations that are not reacting as we have, that could be compared to similar nations, near them to learn whether this response was the correct response.


That is what we were talking about, and then you just stopped and tried to change the subject.


I'm open to new subjects, but I just want to know, was that an admission that the comparison of strong reaction vs the "control" reaction will let us know which was the right reaction?

At least admit that now you know there is no such thing as a “control nation” that you can compare to before you can decide that C19 is a real crisis instead of a manufactured hoax to take Trump down.

So what are you waiting for. This ain’t a hoax. Never was.

Even Trump admits 2.2 million Americans would be dying if the mitigating efforts taken were not in place.

Why do you still believe it is a hoax.

 

[Correll]

Yes, obviously, I would not compare Sweden to the US. Sweden to the Norway, or Findland would be more obvious. Then we could learn from that, how important or NOT, the various steps taken were.

I kind of thought that was obvious to any reasonable person.

Where is the control nation you are waiting for before you can figure out that C19 is killing more people than normal?

We were discussing the idea of comparing nations that took strong measures, to those that did not, to see if the strong measures were called for or an overreaction.


Are you conceding that that is reasonable now, and wanting to move on to the next point?

or just changing the subject, to avoid the point we were discussing?

NO, you mentioned a ‘control’ nation. There was no such nation set up as a control for comparison to the so called panicked, hysterical reaction here in the US that Trump called a hoax.

....

But there are nations that are not reacting as we have, that could be compared to similar nations, near them to learn whether this response was the correct response.


That is what we were talking about, and then you just stopped and tried to change the subject.


I'm open to new subjects, but I just want to know, was that an admission that the comparison of strong reaction vs the "control" reaction will let us know which was the right reaction?

At least admit that now you know there is no such thing as a “control nation” that you can compare to before you can decide that C19 is a real crisis instead of a manufactured hoax to take Trump down.

So what are you waiting for. This ain’t a hoax. Never was.

Even Trump admits 2.2 million Americans would be dying if the mitigating efforts taken were not in place.

Why do you still believe it is a hoax.

Errr, last we touched on it, you made the point that the nations of, say Sweden and Belorus, would not be good "control" nations to compare to the US, because they are so different, and that you would want to compare them to similar nations close to them, to learn anything.


I agreed, and went so far as to state that I thought that was so obvious that it went without saying, but you said it, so we should be on the same page now.

Then you went to change the subject, and when I asked for clarification that you were agreeing with me, that such comparisons could show which reaction to the outbreak was correct,


you now seem to... doing something else...


Why are you so resistant to the idea of checking the results of the policy you support? I would think that you would be confident that Sweden and Belorus are going to be paying a heavy price for their weak response, and that that would validate your position, completely.


Instead, you seem to be, increasingly evasive...


....

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Why are you so resistant to the idea of checking the results of the policy you support?

I’m not resistant to that. Why would I? I’m calling bullshit on your stated position that you don’t know if we are in an real crisis right now until you are able to crunch the numbers when the pandemic is over.

 

[Correll]

Why are you so resistant to the idea of checking the results of the policy you support?

I’m not resistant to that. Why would I? I’m calling bullshit on your stated position that you don’t know if we are in an real crisis right now until you are able to crunch the numbers when the pandemic is over.

So, to be clear, you are admitting that once this is over, if nations that did not react strongly, as we have, if those nations do not have seriously worse outcomes than similar nearby nations,


that your position on this outbreak was wrong? Yes or no.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

. So, to be clear, you are admitting that once this is over, if nations that did not react strongly, as we have, if those nations do not have seriously worse outcomes than similar nearby nations,

that your position on this outbreak was wrong? Yes or no.

My position has never been wrong nor will it ever be.My wife is an epidemiologist, she is not working on viral infections and panoramically but she could see what was coming long before We were in New York City on Super Bowl weekend and we were social distancing as much as much possible and hand sanitizing after touching anything touched by others. After she learned more about how easily this killer virus is transmitted she said it was stupid to go to the Broadway Show and watch the Super Bowl in a Sports Bar near Times Square,

It was a great and fun trip but I don’t think it wrong to take precaution to stay alive and keep from putting others at risk.

There are over 30,000 dead Americans that would not be dead right now except they were infected in a Pandemic.

That number has being kept lower due to mitigation and shutting the live entertainment, sports, restaurants and education facilities, and some manufacturing down. What’s been done here in the USA has been proven right already by the mere fact that the exponential growing case and death curves have been flattened and death rate is heading down.

You apparently are not convinced that mitigation efforts have an effect on reducing community spread during a pandemic.

That is absurd. That is my point. You are clinging to an absurd unscientific and unintelligent opinion on C19. Your only out is to pretend you need more data.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

16#316 reply to 13#260

I know that libs in government positions have a motive to inflate the numbers, and have demonstrated that they put partisan advantage over their jobs in plenty of other examples.

You don’t know if COVID19 is bad until you can crunch the numbers when it’s all over.

But you do know that “libs in government positions have a motive to inflate the numbers”

Do you “know“ if our entire nation of medical professionals in America are in cahoots with those LIBS in government to inflate the numbers of all thousands of extra deaths that just coincidently are occurring during a Pandemic?

Did they bring in an extra 33,000 people and kill them just help LIBS in government to bring down Trump?

Or are they printing fake death certificates and all the hospital scenes being filmed in Hollywood and distributed to the fake news media?

read this...

Not Like the Flu, Not Like Car Crashes, Not Like

It’s about the spike.

www.thenewatlantis.com

And tell me again that COVID19 is not bad.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

16# reply to 13#242 It’s really really bad isn’t it?

13#242

When you take steps like that, it looks like you are actively working to make the situation look as bad as possible, and that lulls me into thinking that might not be that far out of normal.

After seeing the NYC graph above are you still thinking that illnesses derived from the LIB hoax pandemic might not be that far out of normal illnesses year after year?

 

[Correll]

. So, to be clear, you are admitting that once this is over, if nations that did not react strongly, as we have, if those nations do not have seriously worse outcomes than similar nearby nations,

that your position on this outbreak was wrong? Yes or no.

My position has never been wrong nor will it ever be......

If your position cannot be proven wrong by any amount of new data, then it is not based on science or reason.

It is a matter of blind faith.


Indeed, ALL you talk of reports and policy, is a form of a lie, because talking about them implies that your position is based on their information, when it is not.

 

[Correll]

16#316 reply to 13#260
View attachment 324709

I know that libs in government positions have a motive to inflate the numbers, and have demonstrated that they put partisan advantage over their jobs in plenty of other examples.

You don’t know if COVID19 is bad until you can crunch the numbers when it’s all over.

But you do know that “libs in government positions have a motive to inflate the numbers”

Do you “know“ if our entire nation of medical professionals in America are in cahoots with those LIBS in government to inflate the numbers of all thousands of extra deaths that just coincidently are occurring during a Pandemic?

Did they bring in an extra 33,000 people and kill them just help LIBS in government to bring down Trump?

Or are they printing fake death certificates and all the hospital scenes being filmed in Hollywood and distributed to the fake news media?

read this...

Not Like the Flu, Not Like Car Crashes, Not Like

It’s about the spike.

www.thenewatlantis.com

And tell me again that COVID19 is not bad.

No, they are just lumping anyone who dies with the virus, or who might have possibly had the virus, in with actual virus caused deaths.

To support the Orange Man Bad meme.

 

[Correll]

16# reply to 13#242 It’s really really bad isn’t it?

View attachment 324745

13#242

When you take steps like that, it looks like you are actively working to make the situation look as bad as possible, and that lulls me into thinking that might not be that far out of normal.

After seeing the NYC graph above are you still thinking that illnesses derived from the LIB hoax pandemic might not be that far out of normal illnesses year after year?

I thinking I don't trust number compiled during a politics tainted panic. Hence my point about looking at this, once it is over.