CDZ I want to present this in this forum hopefully to get some real dialogue

[Bush92]

Coronavirus deaths are not being inflated. There is no conspiracy involved here. People close to me are in serious condition as a result of this. We will win this thing, get back on our feet again, and still prevent the Socialist Democratic Party from enacting their agenda.

You might, just a suggestion, stick to the OT, which requires reading all that is written-
To begin with where did you read this is a conspiracy theory? I'm pretty sure, since it's my thread, I said it's about "intellectual honesty"- to be intellectually honest requires an open mind- an open mind easily absorbs knowledge- knowledge can manifest itself in ways unimaginable- no where did I say this is a conspiracy theory.
BTW, are you aware that ALL things began as a theory? Shallow minded people regurgitate with pejoratives pretending to be erudite- inquiring minds inquire - from everywhere possible before rendering a conclusion.
Closed minds regurgitate.

If you begin with the false premise that deaths are being inflated...you have a conspiracy theory.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#202 reply to #200

I'm pretty sure, since it's my thread, I said it's about "intellectual honesty"- to be intellectually honest requires an open mind- an open mind easily absorbs knowledge- knowledge can manifest itself in ways unimaginable- no where did I say this is a conspiracy theory.

You are still promoting Trump’s original conspiracy theory that the fake news media and the dastardly libs are needlessly hyping this common flu just to take him down,

Right here you and the LIMBAUGH side are spreading Trump’s great lie and imagined hoax, hype and hysteria.

Post #52

It is- as was h1n1 and all previous strains and there was no hysteria- this is all media bullshit because they don't like Trump and will sell their souls just to be able to hate him publicly

Your conspiracy theory is based on a completely dishonest false equivalency comparing H1N1 to COVID-19.


This too;

Post #201.

If you begin with the false premise that deaths are being inflated...you have a conspiracy theory.

And if you follow Trump’s many bloviations on the crisis, he has abandoned his original LIb hoax conspiracy theory for his new (I’m a hero) line @saying his actions to shut it all down will save 2 million lives.

It’s been a few weeks since Trump asked:

“What would have happened if we did nothing?”

He had the answer:

“Think of the number — potentially 2.2 million people if we did nothing, if we didn’t do the distancing, if we didn’t do all of the things that we’re doing,” Trump said Sunday.

Yes? shutting down the non-essential economy.

When will you get up to speed?

 

[Gdjjr]

You are still promoting Trump’s original conspiracy theory that the fake news media and the dastardly libs are needlessly hyping this common flu just to take him down,

That's what you want to see- then see it- it's pretty obvious to this not formally indoctrinated person that you trust known liars- the media and the gov't employees you approve of - I don't believe there would be near as much hype if one of your Saintly Democrats were POTUS- I KNOW that I've survived many years w/o the "recommended flu shots"- I KNOW that H1N1 had no hype- I KNOW that gov't emplyees on BOTH sides of the aisle are pretentious terrible actors- I KNOW that siding with either side promotes BOTH sides- I KNOW voters are, to the terrible actors in the District of Criminals, no more than tools to retain ill perceived power - I KNOW that if I die today it's because my time is up - I would bet that it would be hyped as "related to" the flu - yet, with all these known truths just listed you will still see what you want to see- you're very similar to Pavlov's dogs- and you mimick the proverbial leading a horse to water axiom- so, how does it *feel* to be no more a thinker than a 4 legged?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

That's what you want to see- then see it- it's pretty obvious to this not formally indoctrinated person that you trust known liars- the media and the gov't employees you approve of -

Why is Trump now aligned with Maddow bragging that Covid-19 could have killed 2 million Anericans if he, the Great Hero President, did not shut the economy down?

Why has Trump abandoned you and your conspiracy theory?

I lnow why, but I want you and rest of the CT!s on this thread to address the cruel reality that TrumpO bailed on your right wing latest round of nincompoopism?

why why why, a thousand times why?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I KNOW that I've survived many years w/o the "recommended flu shots"-

perhaps it’s the tinfoil on your head and windows that’s keeping you safe from the viruses too. You should do some studies.

 

[Gdjjr]

perhaps it’s the tinfoil on your head and windows that’s keeping you safe from the viruses too. You should do some studies.

Perhaps it is your willingness to succumb to known liars that prevents you from seeing clearly and thinking for yourself- or maybe it's just plain ignorance. Either way, cogent responses don't come from you - you are really well versed in political dogma though and BOTH sides appreciate your efforts.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Either way, cogent responses don't come from you -

Apparently the following cogent question is impossible for you to answer. But let’s ask you and your fellows again and see what we get.

Why has Trump abandoned you and your conspiracy theory?

why is Trump now taking credit for saving 2 million lives if COVID-19 is no worse than the common flu and 2009 H1N1?

 

[Gdjjr]

why is Trump now taking credit for saving 2 million lives if COVID-19 is no worse than the common flu and 2009 H1N1?

LOL- why are you asking me?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

LOL- why are you asking me?

I want to know what you think on a thread devoted to intellectual honesty.

And because you are expressing the belief that shutting down the US economy was not necessary to save lives, and shutting it down was all parts of liberals trying to take down Trump.

but now Trump is taking credit for saving 2 million lives and he will be a hero if after shutting down the economy, only 100,000 Americans will die from Trump’s 2020 pandemic.

please explain what is going on in your head.

there is a disconnect from reality on your part but Perhaps you can explain it.

Do you think Trump has drank the Kool/Aid from the Libs?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#210 reply to #2 On April 3, in Post #2 you declare that Rush Limbaugh is right about what the libs are doing with the 2020 Pandemic....

the evidence supports the fact that this has been deliberately blown out of proportion.

However. on March 30, the smartest President in American history told us that nothing was blown out of proportion. Two million Americans would be dead had he done nothing, had he not shut the economy down.

“Think of the number — 2.2 million people if we did nothing, if we didn’t do the distancing, if we didn’t do all of the things that we’re doing,”​

And on April 1 Trump told us:

​

“So that’s 2.2 million people would have died if we did nothing, if we just carried on our life.“​

Remarks by President Trump, Vice President Pence, and Members of the Coronavirus Task Force in Press Briefing

Issued on: April 1, 2020

THE PRESIDENT: It says 100- to 200,000. Anything — it’s a lot of people, right? It’s a lot of people.

Well, you didn’t ask the other question. What would have happened — because this is the question that I’ve been asking Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx for a long time, and they’ve been working on this for a long time.

The question is: What would have happened if we did nothing? Because there was a group that said, “Let’s just ride it out. Let’s ride it out.” What would have happened? And that number comes in at 1.5 to 1.6 million people, up to 2.2 and even beyond. So that’s 2.2 million people would have died if we did nothing, if we just carried on our life.

Now, I don’t think that would have been possible because you would have had people dying all over the place. This would not have been a normal life. How many people have even seen anybody die? You would have seen people dying on airplanes. You would have been seeing people dying in hotel lobbies. You would’ve seen death all over.

So I think, from a practical standpoint, that couldn’t have been carried out too far. But — but if you — if you did nothing, on the higher side, the number would be 2.2 and maybe even more, and on the lower side, 1.6 million people.

Remarks by President Trump, Vice President Pence, and Members of the Coronavirus Task Force in Press Briefing | The White House

On April 3, in Post #2 you declare the libs wanted the pandemic to apoear as large as it can:

There is no doubt now that they want this pandemic to appear as bad and as large as they can.

I assume you mean libs would be inflating death counts.

You've got it assbackwards. The worst case scenario in terms of deaths and economic devastation, we’ve been told by the smartest president in the world ever, is that the nightmare of “people dying on airplanes. ..... dying in hotel lobbies. ....death all over” would come with the do nothing ‘ride it out” policy. Trump chose mitigation as the scientists, experts and libs were calling for.

Your comnents are clueless. Can you explain that away somehow?

 

[toobfreak]

#210 reply to #2 On April 3, in Post #2 you declare that Rush Limbaugh is right about what the libs are doing with the 2020 Pandemic....
~~~ Can you explain that away somehow?

TOO FUNNY. Actually PROVING my point, another knuckle-dragging mouth-breather wants to use a crisis, partly natural, partly man-made not to help anyone, not to seek solutions, but as just one more fucking clueless idiot excuse to vent his uncontrollable, irrational, mind-numbing TDS.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#212 reply to #211 Re: Trump shut down saving 2 million American lives is a good thing.

In your #211 reply to my #210 you declare your point was proven by my pointing out what Trump said on March 30 and April 1.

TOO FUNNY. Actually PROVING my point,

How can that be?

Your points in Post #2 were as follows;

the evidence supports the fact that this has been deliberately blown out of proportion.

QUOTE="toobfreak, post: 24378623, member: 63059"] There is no doubt now that they want this pandemic to appear as bad and as large as they can.[/QUOTE]

Can you explain how quoting Trump from the as White House Website is TDS and proves yourn posits thatn are blatan false. Made more false by what Trump said.

​

“How many people have even seen anybody die? You would have seen people dying on airplanes. You would have been seeing people dying in hotel lobbies. You would’ve seen death all over.” Trump April 1.​

I am glad Trump belatedly shut the economy down and saved at least 1.5 million lives and saved the economy from a much more severe Depression.

How is agreeing with Trump TDS?

i realize you are stuck and cannot answer questions, but just in case you get a burst of intellectual honesty, could you press tell us if you disagree with Trump for doing the Swedish policy of letting the virus spread in order to infect the entire population. It’s called the “herd immunity”

 

[NotfooledbyW]

11#213 reply to 06#102

i did not ask about this years's flu numbers. I asked about LAST years flu numbers, which would be normal.

An intellectually honest human being should have looked it up themselves.

Table 31a : Death Summary Information by Race/Ethnicity New York State - 2017

Vital Statistics, VS

www.health.ny.gov

Out of 155,191 total deaths in New York State the number of deaths from pneumonia is 4179 per year. That is 11 deaths per a NORMAL day in the state of New York.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo Announces New York's First Death from COVID-19

The person who died was an 82-years-old woman in New York City

www.google.com

First death in New York​

Andrew Cuomo​

✔@NYGovCuomo​

I am saddened to report the #COVID19-related death of an 82-year-old women in NYC who had a pre-existing respiratory disease (emphysema).
I extend my condolences to her family during this challenging time.

6,289. 10:54 AM - Mar 14, 2020​

Current update per this NEW York Covid deaths there have been 5280 C19 deaths in New York since the first case on March 14.

Normal pneumonia deaths in New York 4179.

C19 deaths in New York past 26 days 5280.
5389 divided by 26 days = 204 deaths per day on average.

Science and math will do you people in - the 3 year marathon of ignorance is coming to an end.

 

[Correll]

11#213 reply to 06#102

i did not ask about this years's flu numbers. I asked about LAST years flu numbers, which would be normal.

An intellectually honest human being should have looked it up themselves.

Table 31a : Death Summary Information by Race/Ethnicity New York State - 2017

Vital Statistics, VS

www.health.ny.gov

Out of 155,191 total deaths in New York State the number of deaths from pneumonia is 4179 per year. That is 11 deaths per a NORMAL day in the state of New York.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo Announces New York's First Death from COVID-19

The person who died was an 82-years-old woman in New York City

www.google.com

First death in New York​

Andrew Cuomo​

✔@NYGovCuomo​

I am saddened to report the #COVID19-related death of an 82-year-old women in NYC who had a pre-existing respiratory disease (emphysema).
I extend my condolences to her family during this challenging time.

6,289. 10:54 AM - Mar 14, 2020​

Current update per this NEW York Covid deaths there have been 5280 C19 deaths in New York since the first case on March 14.

Normal pneumonia deaths in New York 4179.

C19 deaths in New York past 26 days 5280.
5389 divided by 26 days = 204 deaths per day on average.

Science and math will do you people in - the 3 year marathon of ignorance is coming to an end.

1. Counting the days, as though the flu season is spread evenly over the whole year is dishonest. And funny in the context of your "3 year marathon of ignorance"

2. Wish I had more confidence in those c19 numbers. but I don't.

3. Looks like rough year, but hardly justifying this massive overreaction.

4. The real test will be comparing results with the control groups, or the few nations that did not react strongly.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

11#215 reply to 11#214 re: “ignorance vs reaction”

3. Looks like rough year, but hardly justifying this massive overreaction.

On April 10 I posted supported data showing 5,280 C19 deaths in New York since the first C19 death on March 14.

Are you aware of any period of time from all previous years since 2020 where the State of New York’s hospital system had to deal with 5,280 pneumonia deaths over a 26 day period.? And new daily deaths are still being reported.

Define “rough”.

Define a “not massive overreaction”

 

[Correll]

11#215 reply to 11#214 re: “ignorance vs reaction”

3. Looks like rough year, but hardly justifying this massive overreaction.

On April 10 I posted supported data showing 5,280 C19 deaths in New York since the first C19 death on March 14.

Are you aware of any period of time from all previous years since 2020 where the State of New York’s hospital system had to deal with 5,280 pneumonia deaths over a 26 day period.? And new daily deaths are still being reported.

Define “rough”.

Define a “not massive overreaction”

I'm not aware of any of the previous period of times, normal or abnormal ranges. You've given me some data, and I can see that it seems somewhat higher, (if the numbers are good), but without some context as to what is the normal amount of variation from year to year, I still don't see that this level of reaction is called for.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

11#217 reply to 11#216 re: “ignorance vs reaction”

I'm not aware of any of the previous period of times, normal or abnormal ranges.

If you are not aware of any of the previous period of times, normal or abnormal ranges, how can you ....

see that it seems somewhat higher,

......know if the number of all patients in NY ICUs is somewhat higher or lower or unchanged?

Will you follow up by responding to the following requests?

. Define “rough”.
Define a “not massive overreaction”

Is this a massive overreaction?

FOX10tv.com › news › for-the-...​

For the first time since 9/11, NYC sets up makeshift morgues in anticipation of coronavirus deaths ...​

Mar 26, 2020 · The trucks are part of a city plan to prepare for the potential surge of bodies from the coronavirus pandemic, Worthy-Davis said.​

​

I need to understand your context:

 

[NotfooledbyW]

11#218

Just April 10 2020 2:00 pm saw Trump on MSNBC live reminding us all again that 2.5 million of us would be dead if he had not over-reacted in the way he did.

Praise god for putting TrumpO in charge when the virus planned to visit and kill us

 

[Correll]

11#217 reply to 11#216 re: “ignorance vs reaction”

I'm not aware of any of the previous period of times, normal or abnormal ranges.

If you are not aware of any of the previous period of times, normal or abnormal ranges, how can you ....

see that it seems somewhat higher,

......know if the number of all patients in NY ICUs is somewhat higher or lower or unchanged?

Will you follow up by responding to the following requests?

. Define “rough”.
Define a “not massive overreaction”

Is this a massive overreaction?

View attachment 321676FOX10tv.com › news › for-the-...​

For the first time since 9/11, NYC sets up makeshift morgues in anticipation of coronavirus deaths ...​

Mar 26, 2020 · The trucks are part of a city plan to prepare for the potential surge of bodies from the coronavirus pandemic, Worthy-Davis said.​

​

I need to understand your context:

1. Because you did, finally, provide some past numbers, though not a range of what constitutes normal fluctuations.

2. No, I rarely play when people ask me to define normal words.

3. If the makeshift morgue is not needed, then it will be shown to be an overreaction. IF it is needed, then it will be shown to have NOT been an overreaction.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

11#220 reply to 11#219 re: “ignorance vs reaction”

3. If the makeshift morgue is not needed, then it will be shown to be an overreaction. IF it is needed, then it will be shown to have NOT been an overreaction.

NEEDED? The makeshift morgues are overflowing with dead bodies?

Where have you been hiding?

Can you imagine the stack of bodies if the economy was not shut down in New York where Governor Cuomo and NJ and Conn Governors shut it down when they did.

No, guess you can’t.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

More than 1,500 people died in a 48-hour period in New York City this week, according to the city Health Department. That still fails to capture the full extent of the crisis, as city officials are still not releasing numbers of probable COVID-19 deaths where tests were not conducted.​

​

At one hospital in Queens, a physician who oversees an intensive care unit said the hospital was struggling to find places to put the dead. Before the pandemic, they’d see 10 to 15 deaths a week, he said. Now they’re seeing 20 to 25 a day.​

​

“That’s why people may not be getting ICU care in an expeditious fashion and are stuck on a ventilator on the floor,” said the doctor, who asked for his name and the name of his employer withheld because he didn't have permission to speak to the press. “There’s no place to put the body that died in the ICU three hours previously.”​

​

As of Wednesday afternoon, he said, the hospital had more than 500 COVID-19 patients, 83 of whom were on ventilators. Of those on ventilators, 23 were in regular hospital rooms waiting to be moved into​

intensive care units, he added.​

​

The refrigerated trucks the hospital is using as extra morgue space had filled up, forcing the hospital to use unrefrigerated space in storage rooms throughout the hospital, he described. He recently followed a “transporter,” whose job it is to move patients and bodies throughout the facility, to one of those makeshift locations.​

​

“Twelve to fourteen [bodies], in a 15’ by 15’ room, literally side by side on the stretchers. It’s horrible, horrible, it’s terrible,” the doctor said. “I’m not sure there are any good solutions about where to put them.”​

Erik Frampton, an out-of-work custom art framer, was recently hired by a funeral director to help handle the surge of corpses at a Bronx hospital. When he arrived at the location on Monday morning, he found a refrigeration truck filled with dozens of corpses stacked one on top of another, even though the official protocol from the city’s office of emergency management says “decedents should never be stacked.”​

​

Instead of 40 to 44 bodies in the trailer, there were close to a hundred, he said. He spent two days moving and stacking corpses and inserting shelving to create more space. Frampton also asked for the name of the hospital and his employer to be withheld because he doesn’t want them to be singled out for criticism.​

​

“It’s a very gruesome jigsaw puzzle that doesn’t make any sense for the living or the dead, but it got done,” said Framptom. “No one is doing anything wrong. Everyone is doing what they can and yet, it’s all wrong.”​

​

Framptom described wearing garbage bags on his feet and legs and an N95 mask, while standing in a mess of bodily fluids as they rearranged the corpses.​

“There’s too many corpses.”​

​

The backlog of the dead extends from hospital morgues and refrigeration trucks to funeral homes. At Sisto Funeral Home in the Throggs Neck section of the Bronx, funeral director Ralph Faiella has found cremations to be the biggest challenge, because the city’s four crematoria—two in Queens, one in Brooklyn, and another in the Bronx—are already booked for weeks.​

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

The makeshift tractor trailer morgues are overwhelmed so you should respond that there has NOT been an overreaction and you now agree shutting the economy down as TrumpO says, has saved over two million lives if the death toll does not exceed 200,000.
[/QUOTE]