CDZ I want to know why it is acceptable to exclude homosexuals

[Mertex]

Why is it socially acceptable to regard the LGBT community as not worthy of civil rights?

Why has it become socially acceptable to regard Christians as bigots for standing up for their faith? Why can't the advocates, activists and backers of LGBT rights measure themselves by their own standards?

How are you standing up for your faith? What faith/religion advocates being discriminatory toward another human being. I know Christians are not supposed to....Jesus said, love your neighbor as yourself, and your neighbor is any other human being. Do you throw them out of your church?

The better question is: “why does one perceive his faith as being 'under attack,'” when in fact it's not.

There is no need to 'stand up for one's faith' when no one is advocating his faith be in any way 'disadvantaged.'

xxxxxxxxxx. Asking someone to do something that they find morally reprehensible is an attack. duh!

Asking someone to do what they do for their business is not an attack. If it is perceived as an attack, it is the "perceiver" that is wrong. The person is just requesting their service.

It used to be that businesses used to find it morally reprehensible to serve blacks. The country decided that was not acceptable.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The 'religious argument' is also devoid of merit.

No act or measure anywhere in the United States – currently on the books or proposed – seeks to violate the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment, including public accommodations laws that prohibit discrimination in the private marketplace.

And in the context of a free and democratic society, and that of the private sector, private citizens condemning the unwarranted hate exhibited toward gay Americans by some Christians does not manifest as 'denying' Christians their religious liberty, as First Amendment jurisprudence applies solely to government, not private individuals or organizations.

 

[Mertex]

Why is it socially acceptable to regard the LGBT community as not worthy of civil rights?

Why has it become socially acceptable to regard Christians as bigots for standing up for their faith? Why can't the advocates, activists and backers of LGBT rights measure themselves by their own standards?

As stated in the OP, this thread is not about wedding vendors or agendas. I just seek some honest answers.

I don't want to repress gays. I simply want nothing to do with them. And I'm called a hater for it. Go figure.

That certainly is your right, but why do you think you have the right to deny them their civil rights?

 

[Gracie]

They should have the same rights as everyone else. However, there are some lines some folks will draw. Mostly it is religious views. And everyone is entitled to follow whatever religious views and doctrines even if it means "excluding"...to a certain extent.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why is it socially acceptable to regard the LGBT community as not worthy of civil rights?

Why has it become socially acceptable to regard Christians as bigots for standing up for their faith? Why can't the advocates, activists and backers of LGBT rights measure themselves by their own standards?

How are you standing up for your faith? What faith/religion advocates being discriminatory toward another human being. I know Christians are not supposed to....Jesus said, love your neighbor as yourself, and your neighbor is any other human being. Do you throw them out of your church?

The better question is: “why does one perceive his faith as being 'under attack,'” when in fact it's not.

There is no need to 'stand up for one's faith' when no one is advocating his faith be in any way 'disadvantaged.'

If the faith claims that homosexuality is a sin, then not being homosexual is all that is required. Some Christians do not really understand Christianity and take it upon themselves to play God.

True.

And the fact that many Christians – one would hope the majority – do not consider homosexuality a 'sin,' along with the lack of consensus among Christians that homosexuality is in fact a 'sin,' further undermines the 'religious argument.'

Indeed, nowhere in sanctioned Christian doctrine or dogma will one find homosexuality condemned as a 'sin,' where Christians are 'compelled' by their faith to not associate with gay individuals, or such an association is perceived as 'condoning' homosexuality, or in any way jeopardizing the salvation of a Christian.

No, this is nothing but unwarranted fear and hate of those believed to be 'different,' when in fact they are not; the 'religious argument' is nothing but a facade behind which to hide the unwarranted fear and hate of homosexuals many Christians harbor.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It comes as no surprise, of course, that those hostile to gay Americans have failed to meet the OP's challenge – to provide objective, documented evidence that warrants their hostility toward gay Americans, and justifies seeking to discriminate against them.

Indeed, failing to meet the challenge, those hostile to gay Americans immediately fell back to the 'religious argument' redoubt – an 'argument' devoid of objective, documented evidence in support of being hostile to gay Americans, and wishing to disadvantage them.

 

[Gracie]

Nobody needs to "provide objective, documented evidence" about how they feel concerning their belief system any more than anyone can explain what love is with "objective, documented evidence". Human beings are not robots.

 

[Papageorgio]

The act of homosexuality is a sin, so is adultery, so is lying, so is divorcing, so is speeding and on and on. These are between the individual and their God.

I don't hate anyone, it's not worth my time, I hate the actions of individuals.

I have a difference of opinion. We are all allowed to have differing opinions, you don't need to accept my lifestyle and I don't need to accept yours. It doesn't mean I hate anyone or think less of anyone or am judging anyone. It means I have an opinion, like you and it is different than yours. It means we can get along just fine.

You have issues, take it up with your God or therapist.

 

[Gracie]

The act of homosexuality is a sin, so is adultery, so is lying, so is divorcing, so is speeding and on and on. These are between the individual and their God.

I don't hate anyone, it's not worth my time, I hate the actions of individuals.

I have a difference of opinion. We are all allowed to have differing opinions, you don't need to accept my lifestyle and I don't need to accept yours. It doesn't mean I hate anyone or think less of anyone or am judging anyone. It means I have an opinion, like you and it is different than yours. It means we can get along just fine.

You have issues, take it up with your God or therapist.

Well said.

 

[Politico]

Why is it socially acceptable to regard the LGBT community as not worthy of civil rights?

Why has it become socially acceptable to regard Christians as bigots for standing up for their faith? Why can't the advocates, activists and backers of LGBT rights measure themselves by their own standards?

Haven't you heard? Agreeing everyone should have equal rights is not enough. Anyone who refuses to say butt sex is normal is a bigot.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why is it socially acceptable to regard the LGBT community as not worthy of civil rights?

Why has it become socially acceptable to regard Christians as bigots for standing up for their faith? Why can't the advocates, activists and backers of LGBT rights measure themselves by their own standards?

Haven't you heard? Agreeing everyone should have equal rights is not enough. Anyone who refuses to say butt sex is normal is a bigot.

Oh I've heard. But luckily for me, I don't care if people think I'm a bigot. Those are my beliefs and I'm sticking to them.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why is it socially acceptable to regard the LGBT community as not worthy of civil rights?

Why has it become socially acceptable to regard Christians as bigots for standing up for their faith? Why can't the advocates, activists and backers of LGBT rights measure themselves by their own standards?

Haven't you heard? Agreeing everyone should have equal rights is not enough. Anyone who refuses to say butt sex is normal is a bigot.

Wrong.

Anyone who seeks to disadvantage someone based solely on his sexual orientation is a bigot.

Those who perceive homosexuality to be 'abnormal' are ignorant.

And still no one on the right has succeeded to provide objective, documented evidence justifying gay Americans be denied their civil rights, or otherwise discriminated against.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Why do some people still believe that homosexuals should still be repressed. Would some have homosexuals return to closeted lives? Would they have them lose their jobs, their reputations, their credit worthiness? Would some people want a return of sodomy laws and criminalize homosexuals?

To what purpose?

Homosexuals are tax payers, property owners, business men and women, they serve our nation proudly. What makes them so worthy of scorn?

I don't want to discuss wedding vendors. I don't want to talk about 'agendas'. I want to talk about the rational behind the thoughts of exclusion, of disrespect, of denial of basic rights.

Why are the Gays so vilified by some folks?

Gays have always been in our community, our workplace, our schools, government, civic organizations, churches and yes, in our families. What makes your neighbors, your fellow citizens unworthy of the exact same rights other Americans enjoy?

Homosexuals are not committing crimes by simply being homosexual. For every bit of what is perceived as homosexual perversion, heterosexuals produce three more.

The question is: Why is it socially acceptable to regard the LGBT community as not worthy of civil rights?

I am not religious, so I am not speaking from my own perspective.
Having said that, in every religion homosexuality is not your "everyday" sin. It is a "high sin" if you will.
In the Protestant/Catholic/Jewish religions it is specifically written in the Bible as an "abomination", wicked.
So as a member of any of those religions it would still be wrong to refuse to serve in a restaurant, or to single out, ridicule or harm in any way as this is also a part of these religions. HOWEVER, they cannot be apart of something that goes against that religion. And gay marriage does. So it would be a sin against their beliefs to assist in a gay marriage.
You are either tolerant of that or intolerant.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

TEMPLARKORMAC SAID:

“Why has it become socially acceptable to regard Christians as bigots for standing up for their faith?”

It hasn't, because no such thing has occurred.

It is correctly understood in both the public sector with regard to government policy and the private sector with regard to public accommodations laws that to seek to disadvantage a class of persons due to sexual orientation is indeed bigotry – having nothing to do with religion.

Indeed, millions of Christians practice their faith pursuing no desire to discriminate against gay Americans, where nowhere in Christian doctrine and dogma does the faith endorse discrimination against gays as a 'tenet of the faith.

It's also correctly understood that laws and measures enacted in good faith and in compliance with the Constitution cannot be violated or ignored with 'religious belief' as justification as doing so, where such laws in no way 'force' Christians to do anything 'against their will.

 

[Mr.Right]

TEMPLARKORMAC SAID:

“Why has it become socially acceptable to regard Christians as bigots for standing up for their faith?”

It hasn't, because no such thing has occurred.

It is correctly understood in both the public sector with regard to government policy and the private sector with regard to public accommodations laws that to seek to disadvantage a class of persons due to sexual orientation is indeed bigotry – having nothing to do with religion.

Indeed, millions of Christians practice their faith pursuing no desire to discriminate against gay Americans, where nowhere in Christian doctrine and dogma does the faith endorse discrimination against gays as a 'tenet of the faith.

It's also correctly understood that laws and measures enacted in good faith and in compliance with the Constitution cannot be violated or ignored with 'religious belief' as justification as doing so, where such laws in no way 'force' Christians to do anything 'against their will.

Going by your reasoning, there is no reason why a black person shouldn't cater a kkk rally.

 

[Votto]

Why do some people still believe that homosexuals should still be repressed. Would some have homosexuals return to closeted lives? Would they have them lose their jobs, their reputations, their credit worthiness? Would some people want a return of sodomy laws and criminalize homosexuals?

To what purpose?

Homosexuals are tax payers, property owners, business men and women, they serve our nation proudly. What makes them so worthy of scorn?

I don't want to discuss wedding vendors. I don't want to talk about 'agendas'. I want to talk about the rational behind the thoughts of exclusion, of disrespect, of denial of basic rights.

Why are the Gays so vilified by some folks?

Gays have always been in our community, our workplace, our schools, government, civic organizations, churches and yes, in our families. What makes your neighbors, your fellow citizens unworthy of the exact same rights other Americans enjoy?

Homosexuals are not committing crimes by simply being homosexual. For every bit of what is perceived as homosexual perversion, heterosexuals produce three more.

The question is: Why is it socially acceptable to regard the LGBT community as not worthy of civil rights?

Aside from the religious objection to the gay lifestyle, there are other objections.

The CDC says that over half of new AIDS and STD cases come from gay and bisexual males, even though they only account for under 5% of the population. This is easily explained since males have a much higher sex drive than females. Essentially you have removed the concern regarding reproduction and removed the party that usually complains of a headache to avoid sex 24/7.

So you may then ask, why not let them marry so they don't screw around like that? I got news for ya, marriage will not fix this problem. The real goal if for society to accept the lifestyle, so that the 2% of gay males who are wreaking havoc on the health care system with their epidemic STD rates will become 50% of the population.

So you think that men are born straight or gay? Tell that to the ancient Spartans who incorporated the gay lifestyle into their culture. This proves that being gay can be culturally mediated, unless you believe that they all had the gay gene.

 

[Mertex]

Going by your reasoning, there is no reason why a black person shouldn't cater a kkk rally.

That's true, but KKK's don't like blacks, so I doubt they would even approach blacks to cater to them. Your comparisons are lame.

 

[Syriusly]

It's for the most part the consequence of fear and ignorance – fear of change, diversity, and dissent.

Indeed, many perceive gay Americans expressing their individual liberty as some sort of a 'threat,' a 'threat' to society, to religion, to 'social order'; where if the dissent of gay Americans is allowed and condoned, all other manner of dissent will follow, causing society to 'fall apart,' the consequence of 'moral decay.'

And unfortunately this fear and ignorance soon manifest as hate against gay Americans.

acceptance of the gay lifestyle is a form of moral decay. history teaches that moral decay has destroyed more nations than anything else.

History has shown us that every bigot making that claim hasn't been able to back it up.

 

[Nosmo King]

It's for the most part the consequence of fear and ignorance – fear of change, diversity, and dissent.

Indeed, many perceive gay Americans expressing their individual liberty as some sort of a 'threat,' a 'threat' to society, to religion, to 'social order'; where if the dissent of gay Americans is allowed and condoned, all other manner of dissent will follow, causing society to 'fall apart,' the consequence of 'moral decay.'

And unfortunately this fear and ignorance soon manifest as hate against gay Americans.

acceptance of the gay lifestyle is a form of moral decay. history teaches that moral decay has destroyed more nations than anything else.

Would you disown a Gay son or daughter? Would you snub a friend who comes out of the closet? Would you turn away a fellow worker if you found she was homosexual? Do you think that homosexuals should live closeted lives? Should the reputations and credit worthiness of homosexuals be ruined because of who they are? Would you reinstate sodomy laws and make homosexuality a criminal offense?

To what purpose?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I am not religious, so I am not speaking from my own perspective.
Having said that, in every religion homosexuality is not your "everyday" sin. It is a "high sin" if you will.
In the Protestant/Catholic/Jewish religions it is specifically written in the Bible as an "abomination", wicked.
So as a member of any of those religions it would still be wrong to refuse to serve in a restaurant, or to single out, ridicule or harm in any way as this is also a part of these religions. HOWEVER, they cannot be apart of something that goes against that religion. And gay marriage does. So it would be a sin against their beliefs to assist in a gay marriage.
You are either tolerant of that or intolerant.

In several of these threads I have given the above point...and in all of those thread, not one time has any of the gay rights supporters replied.