I thought I knew, but now I'm not sure.

[JohnDB]

What everyone is upset over is what the medical profession calls "informed consent "
And people literally have not been given informed consent if they have not been informed.

I'd have a problem with it too.

also the big thing is that drug companies have been routinely hiding information concerning the risks of their medications, vaccines, and procedures. But even if they wanted to reveal them, they have been spinning off the various medicines into sub corporations....so if a medication causes debilitating side effects they dont have too much liability.

And that is the major issue with all of it. Zero accountability or informed consent.

The sheer volume increase in instances of autism and celiac disease is a clue that there is more to these medical treatments than is readily apparent. HPV vaccine is not necessary for grade school children. Nor is hep B vaccine needed. Those are something they should choose at a later date on an individual basis....using informed consent.

But.....disease doesn't ask for informed consent either. And with Corona class viruses the endocrine system is attacked.....causing birth defects, immune system problems, cognitive issues, and sterility.

 

[berg80]

A baby does not need a hepatitis B vaccine

Allow me to help fix your ignorance.

The CDC recommends that the Hepatitis B vaccine be administered to infants soon after birth and before hospital discharge. Parents, who are often uninformed regarding the risks of contracting this disease or the chronic long-term effects of liver failure, cirrhosis, and liver cancer that come from being infected, may question why their child needs a vaccination at such a young age.
During the recent airing of the PBS Frontline piece entitled, “The Vaccine War,” one parent defended her anti-vaccine views by questioning why her newborn child would need a vaccine against a sexually transmitted disease. This comment explains the need for public education regarding the risks of the hepatitis B virus (HBV). Once parents understand the ways in which their child may become infected and the unique risks that the virus poses to their infant child, they should realize that vaccinating at birth can prevent chronic effects later in life.
According to information provided by the Immunization Action Coalition and the CDC, an estimated 1.25 million people are chronically infected with the hepatitis B virus in the United States alone, resulting in an estimated 2,000-4,000 deaths each year. Surprisingly, 30%-40% of these chronic infections were acquired during childhood. This fact alone presents a compelling case for vaccinating infants – before they become infected.
Parents need to understand that the hepatitis B virus can be spread by infectious blood and body fluids, and not solely through sexual contact.

Why Infants Should Receive the Hepatitis B Vaccine at Birth - Vaccinate Your Family

The Hepatitis B vaccine isn't just protection for adults; receiving the vaccine at birth prevents infants from getting the disease.

vaccinateyourfamily.org

 

[berg80]

also the big thing is that drug companies have been routinely hiding information concerning the risks of their medications, vaccines, and procedures.

Have you seen an ad on TV for a drug lately? Drug companies are required to warn perspective patients about a drug's side effects right on the air. They also say to consult with your doctor.

 

[sparky]

Have you seen an ad on TV for a drug lately? Drug companies are required to warn perspective patients about a drug's side effects right on the air. They also say to consult with your doctor.

oh, you mean those 1000 words a minute auctioneer rants nobody can make sense of Berg?


mighty hard to miss...... ~S~

 

[JohnDB]

Allow me to help fix your ignorance.

The CDC recommends that the Hepatitis B vaccine be administered to infants soon after birth and before hospital discharge. Parents, who are often uninformed regarding the risks of contracting this disease or the chronic long-term effects of liver failure, cirrhosis, and liver cancer that come from being infected, may question why their child needs a vaccination at such a young age.
During the recent airing of the PBS Frontline piece entitled, “The Vaccine War,” one parent defended her anti-vaccine views by questioning why her newborn child would need a vaccine against a sexually transmitted disease. This comment explains the need for public education regarding the risks of the hepatitis B virus (HBV). Once parents understand the ways in which their child may become infected and the unique risks that the virus poses to their infant child, they should realize that vaccinating at birth can prevent chronic effects later in life.
According to information provided by the Immunization Action Coalition and the CDC, an estimated 1.25 million people are chronically infected with the hepatitis B virus in the United States alone, resulting in an estimated 2,000-4,000 deaths each year. Surprisingly, 30%-40% of these chronic infections were acquired during childhood. This fact alone presents a compelling case for vaccinating infants – before they become infected.
Parents need to understand that the hepatitis B virus can be spread by infectious blood and body fluids, and not solely through sexual contact.

Why Infants Should Receive the Hepatitis B Vaccine at Birth - Vaccinate Your Family

The Hepatitis B vaccine isn't just protection for adults; receiving the vaccine at birth prevents infants from getting the disease.

vaccinateyourfamily.org

Ok....
Good example.
In this explanation the dangers of not vaccinating are thoroughly explained. (Except how the virus can remain viable for a week on contact surfaces) But the dangers of vaccinating are not mentioned at all.

And that is a great example of not giving informed consent. If I went solely by this explanation....I would not be informed at all about the risks of getting the vaccination.

Both sides of the choice need to be explained, how family genetics are indicators of possible outcomes. Then you will have informed consent...

 

[JohnDB]

Allow me to help fix your ignorance.

The CDC recommends that the Hepatitis B vaccine be administered to infants soon after birth and before hospital discharge. Parents, who are often uninformed regarding the risks of contracting this disease or the chronic long-term effects of liver failure, cirrhosis, and liver cancer that come from being infected, may question why their child needs a vaccination at such a young age.
During the recent airing of the PBS Frontline piece entitled, “The Vaccine War,” one parent defended her anti-vaccine views by questioning why her newborn child would need a vaccine against a sexually transmitted disease. This comment explains the need for public education regarding the risks of the hepatitis B virus (HBV). Once parents understand the ways in which their child may become infected and the unique risks that the virus poses to their infant child, they should realize that vaccinating at birth can prevent chronic effects later in life.
According to information provided by the Immunization Action Coalition and the CDC, an estimated 1.25 million people are chronically infected with the hepatitis B virus in the United States alone, resulting in an estimated 2,000-4,000 deaths each year. Surprisingly, 30%-40% of these chronic infections were acquired during childhood. This fact alone presents a compelling case for vaccinating infants – before they become infected.
Parents need to understand that the hepatitis B virus can be spread by infectious blood and body fluids, and not solely through sexual contact.

Why Infants Should Receive the Hepatitis B Vaccine at Birth - Vaccinate Your Family

The Hepatitis B vaccine isn't just protection for adults; receiving the vaccine at birth prevents infants from getting the disease.

vaccinateyourfamily.org

And the other part of a lack of informed consent is that in many instances the companies making these vaccines deliberately squash any and all possible research into studying the long term effects. "Cant claim it was me if we never investigate".

 

[berg80]

But the dangers of vaccinating are not mentioned at all.

Vaccines have been scientifically shown to be safe.

 

[berg80]

And the other part of a lack of informed consent is that in many instances the companies making these vaccines deliberately squash any and all possible research into studying the long term effects.

Horseshit.

Vaccine Development, Testing, and Regulation

Systems for developing and testing vaccines emerged after the 19th century, when many vaccines began to be used. The current system for developing, testing, and regulating vaccines developed during the 20th century as the groups involved standardized their procedures and regulations.

historyofvaccines.org

 

[pknopp]

Vaccines have been scientifically shown to be safe.

Its not unreasonable for a person to not want to get jabbed with something every few months.

 

[struth]

Until the era of trumpery, I thought I knew how people would react to the discovery of a vaccine that greatly decreases the chances you could die from a highly infectious virus. The vaccine also having the ability to minimize the most severe of the virus's symptoms. But I was wrong about that.

I would have said with confidence even trumples didn't want to roll the dice on a re-emergence of polio.

Like Mr. Kennedy, Mr. Siri insists he does not want to take vaccines away from anyone who wants them. “You want to get the vaccine — it’s America, a free country.” he told Arizona legislators last year after laying out his concerns about the vaccines for polio and other illnesses. He did not mention the petitions he has lodged on behalf of ICAN with the Food and Drug Administration, asking regulators to withdraw or suspend approval of vaccines not only for polio, but also for hepatitis B.

Mr. Siri is also representing ICAN in petitioning the F.D.A. to “pause distribution” of 13 other vaccines, including combination products that cover tetanus, diphtheria, polio and hepatitis A, until their makers disclose details about aluminum, an ingredient researchers have associated with a small increase in asthma cases.

Kennedy’s Lawyer Has Asked the F.D.A. to Revoke Approval of the Polio Vaccine

Aaron Siri, who specializes in vaccine lawsuits, has been at Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s side reviewing candidates for top jobs at the Department of Health and Human Services.

www.nytimes.com

Now I'm not so sure. After all, trumples are all in on the guy nominated to lead HHS who said he doesn't believe any vaccine is safe and effective. Like the man who RFK wants to be lead counsel for HHS, Bob says he doesn't want to take vaccines away from people. But much of his life's work says otherwise. In light of the continued support for the orange enemy of the state after revelations of his plot to steal the 2020 election, I don't think I know what trumples will do next. I'm not sure I want to.

I thought I knew whether trumples liked the idea of having their bank deposits insured up to $250K. Especially given the insurance is paid for by the banks who make money from said deposits. But the idea of ending FDIC insurance is being floated by the guy who has won trumples' hearts. A truly "it ain't broke don't fix it" moment. I get the impression if Dear Leader is for it, trumples are too. Though I'm not sure they know why. I do know why the banks are for it.

Deregulation is upon us and folks on Wall St. are excited about the prospects. Just as they were before the Great Depression, the S&L crisis, and Shrub's Great Recession. Jeff Bezos is so excited he contributed $1M to trump's inauguration. Or maybe that was a payoff to keep the incoming trump admin from going after him and his businesses. As was the $1M contribution made by Mark Zuckerberg. I don't know.

Should we abandon the fight against climate change, "suspend approval for vaccines," abolish the FBI, withdraw from alliances, criminalize dissent, forsake allies, purify the populace, initiate trade wars, trivialize ethics, enrich the rich, give tacit approval to governmental intimidation, elevate the executive branch, and seek to marginalize half the population? Do these things strengthen the nation?

I don't think they do. I would not have thought other Americans did either. But I was wrong about that.

Wow a lawyer representing his clients

Shocking

 

[berg80]

Its not unreasonable for a person to not want to get jabbed with something every few months.

I wouldn't want to get jabbed with anything. But I don't mind getting a vaccine booster shot once a year in the fall.

 

[pknopp]

I wouldn't want to get jabbed with anything. But I don't mind getting a vaccine booster shot once a year in the fall.

That's not what we are talking about.

All the same, I don't want jabbed even every year.

 

[JohnDB]

Horseshit.

Vaccine Development, Testing, and Regulation

Systems for developing and testing vaccines emerged after the 19th century, when many vaccines began to be used. The current system for developing, testing, and regulating vaccines developed during the 20th century as the groups involved standardized their procedures and regulations.

historyofvaccines.org

I wish it was horseshit....
Unfortunately it's not. I'd like it if the vaccines were perfectly safe. Gillian Barre syndrome is a risk....there are others that are often unknown or not mentioned. Which is the reason we have a lack of informed consent.

That's what I'm advocating for. Informed consent.

Risks of disease are very real. The consequences are devastating. And the chances of getting a disease are high.

But vaccines also carry risks. They are low EXCEPT for a certain percentage of the population for some reason. There's no reason NOT to discover how and why this small percentage of the general population have adverse reactions to vaccines. What genetics do they have in common ? What causes the risk factors? 0.02% risk is still a risk. Not much of one, but why? The answers are likely going to cause more breakthroughs into health care.

That's a reason right there to study this phenomenon.

We can start with causes of celiac and autism. What are the correlations?
Can we find the causation?

 

[SeaMajor7]

I'm not scared. I rather like engaging with people who do not agree with me. But your question conflates holding opposing opinions with believing in alternative facts.

You may like apple pie more than pumpkin pie. That's holding an opinion. You may think trump won the 2020 election. That's believing in an alternative fact. Got it?

BULLSHIT
You have half the forum on IGNORE.
You're a COWARD.

 

[theHawk]

Allow me to help fix your ignorance.

The CDC recommends that the Hepatitis B vaccine be administered to infants soon after birth and before hospital discharge. Parents, who are often uninformed regarding the risks of contracting this disease or the chronic long-term effects of liver failure, cirrhosis, and liver cancer that come from being infected, may question why their child needs a vaccination at such a young age.
During the recent airing of the PBS Frontline piece entitled, “The Vaccine War,” one parent defended her anti-vaccine views by questioning why her newborn child would need a vaccine against a sexually transmitted disease. This comment explains the need for public education regarding the risks of the hepatitis B virus (HBV). Once parents understand the ways in which their child may become infected and the unique risks that the virus poses to their infant child, they should realize that vaccinating at birth can prevent chronic effects later in life.
According to information provided by the Immunization Action Coalition and the CDC, an estimated 1.25 million people are chronically infected with the hepatitis B virus in the United States alone, resulting in an estimated 2,000-4,000 deaths each year. Surprisingly, 30%-40% of these chronic infections were acquired during childhood. This fact alone presents a compelling case for vaccinating infants – before they become infected.
Parents need to understand that the hepatitis B virus can be spread by infectious blood and body fluids, and not solely through sexual contact.

Why Infants Should Receive the Hepatitis B Vaccine at Birth - Vaccinate Your Family

The Hepatitis B vaccine isn't just protection for adults; receiving the vaccine at birth prevents infants from getting the disease.

vaccinateyourfamily.org

And um, how are children getting a sexually transmitted disease?

 

[j-mac]

I'm not scared. I rather like engaging with people who do not agree with me. But your question conflates holding opposing opinions with believing in alternative facts.

You may like apple pie more than pumpkin pie. That's holding an opinion. You may think trump won the 2020 election. That's believing in an alternative fact. Got it?

I get it. But, just because you think something is factual, doesn’t make it so. For instance, the 2020 election. To supporters of Trump, they will always believe something was fishy about the vote. However, at this point, it’s irrelevant…Biden was President and because of his poor performance he lost.

We have to understand that news today is not straight news anymore…it’s opinion based. So, when presenting it as fact is disingenuous to start with…

So, spare me the ‘mine are facts, yours are not’ bs…

 

[JohnDB]

And um, how are children getting a sexually transmitted disease?

Apparently if an infected child bites another child or an infected child leaves blood or other body fluid (urine, saliva, mucus) on a contact surface it's possible for disease transmission as the virus remains viable for 7 days after being left on a contact surface.

 

[hadit]

Because there haven't been any for the vast, vast majority who took the vaccine.

And the vast majority of the people who contracted COVID had mild to no symptoms and the vast majority of deaths were from those with comorbidities. That certainly earns people the right to decide for themselves if they want to take the vaccine or not.

 

[hadit]

I get it. But, just because you think something is factual, doesn’t make it so. For instance, the 2020 election. To supporters of Trump, they will always believe something was fishy about the vote. However, at this point, it’s irrelevant…Biden was President and because of his poor performance he lost.

We have to understand that news today is not straight news anymore…it’s opinion based. So, when presenting it as fact is disingenuous to start with…

So, spare me the ‘mine are facts, yours are not’ bs…

When media outlets push a narrative over factual truth, they are not trusted to give the unbiased truth.

 

[JohnDB]

And the vast majority of the people who contracted COVID had mild to no symptoms and the vast majority of deaths were from those with comorbidities. That certainly earns people the right to decide for themselves if they want to take the vaccine or not.

This is NOT true at all. This is a lie. Many died or maimed. 75% had no long term effects that we know currently. However 25% of infected people have had long term issues from the disease. Everything from sterility, endocrine disorders, and death.