I rest my case!

[Saigon]

Israel was eventually confirmed as a legal entity by the UN.

You claimed Israel "won" the war against Britain, thus conquering the land by force.

As you know, land conquered by force does not hold legitimacy under international law, as would land upon which independence had been conferred by the UN.

So did Israel first "win" the land by force - or was independence conferred by the UN?

 

[editec]

Reading this contents of thread could cause servere brain damage.

 

[Artevelde]

One website will say more Palestinians in Jordan and one will say less. Majority of Jordanians are so called Palestinians that's the point. So how come the Palestinians aren't whining about being occupied by the evil Hashemite Jordanians who stole their land? .

Gibberish, lies and nonsense.

Your claim that 80% of Jordanians are Palestinian is simply inane nonsense.

Admit that you are wrong about that, and we can move on.

Jordan is the country of the Hashemite people who live east of the Jordan; Palestine is the country of the Palestinian people, who live west of the Jordan.

I'm sorry but this is extremely ignorant. Of course the population of Jordan is largely Palestinian (with obviously several other smaller groups as well). As for the "Hashemite people", I didn't know you were so ignorant of history. This refers to the ruling dynasty and its clan which moved from the Hejaz to Transjordan in the 1920's to conquer a kingdom after they had been kicked out of the Hejaz by the Saudi's.

 

[Artevelde]

Israel was eventually confirmed as a legal entity by the UN.

You claimed Israel "won" the war against Britain, thus conquering the land by force.

As you know, land conquered by force does not hold legitimacy under international law, as would land upon which independence had been conferred by the UN.

So did Israel first "win" the land by force - or was independence conferred by the UN?

So mosdt countries are illegitemate then?

 

[docmauser1]

One website will say more Palestinians in Jordan and one will say less. Majority of Jordanians are so called Palestinians that's the point. So how come the Palestinians aren't whining about being occupied by the evil Hashemite Jordanians who stole their land?

Gibberish, lies and nonsense.

That's what arabs, naturally, do.

Your claim that 80% of Jordanians are Palestinian is simply inane nonsense.

When palistanians want to stress the settling roots of the ruling royal family - they boost the percentage; when faced with the contention that Jordan is, indeed, palistan - they lower the percentage. But, although there're no accurate figures to date, it is estimated that up to 75% of the jardonian pop are our dear palistanians, of course.

Admit that you are wrong about that, and we can move on.

We're right about that and we can move on.

Jordan is the country of the Hashemite people who live east of the Jordan; Palestine is the country of the Palestinian people, who live west of the Jordan.

Hilarious drivel, indeed!

 

[Saigon]

Of course the population of Jordan is largely Palestinian (with obviously several other smaller groups as well). As for the "Hashemite people", I didn't know you were so ignorant of history. This refers to the ruling dynasty and its clan which moved from the Hejaz to Transjordan in the 1920's to conquer a kingdom after they had been kicked out of the Hejaz by the Saudi's.

Obviously the term Hashemite refers to the dynasty - but in the interests of simplicity it makes sense to use the term for the people of Jordan who are neither Palestinian nor Bedouin.

I am very aware when dealing with posters like Roudby that he could not place Jordan on a map - the simpler things are, the more chance there is that even he can understand them.

Your own history of the Hashemites here is wildly simplistic, given you don't even mention the role played by the British in ushering the dynasty into Jordan, but I'd prefer to stick to the topic - I am not interested in you just preening your ego.

 

[Saigon]

So mosdt countries are illegitemate then?

Conquest does not denote legitimacy, nor sovereignty.

This does not mean legitimacy and soveriegnty can not be acquired over conquered land.

 

[Artevelde]

Of course the population of Jordan is largely Palestinian (with obviously several other smaller groups as well). As for the "Hashemite people", I didn't know you were so ignorant of history. This refers to the ruling dynasty and its clan which moved from the Hejaz to Transjordan in the 1920's to conquer a kingdom after they had been kicked out of the Hejaz by the Saudi's.

Obviously the term Hashemite refers to the dynasty - but in the interests of simplicity it makes sense to use the term for the people of Jordan who are neither Palestinian nor Bedouin.

I am very aware when dealing with posters like Roudby that he could not place Jordan on a map - the simpler things are, the more chance there is that even he can understand them.

Your own history of the Hashemites here is wildly simplistic, given you don't even mention the role played by the British in ushering the dynasty into Jordan, but I'd prefer to stick to the topic - I am not interested in you just preening your ego.

So I guess according to you Great Britain is inhabited by a people called Saksen-Coburgs?

I don't see why you deny obvious facts: that the population of Jordan is largely Palestinian.

 

[docmauser1]

given you don't even mention the role played by the British in ushering the dynasty into Jordan,

Ah! Hashemite settlers of palistan!

 

[Artevelde]

So mosdt countries are illegitemate then?

Conquest does not denote legitimacy, nor sovereignty.

This does not mean legitimacy and soveriegnty can not be acquired over conquered land.

Conquest is the way most borders and states have been established.

 

[patrickcaturday]

The land belonged to the British, the Jews did not steal Arab land, they won it from the British. Case CLOSED:

Now run along, Jew hating douchebags!

Once again a Zionist deliberately distorts history in order to try to score points in some sort of silly game where they think that their pronouncements will be accepted as fact !!!

In 1917, during the First World War, Britain defeated the Ottoman Turkish forces and occupied and set up a military administration across the former Ottoman Syria. The land remained under British military administration for the remainder of the war, and beyond. The British sought to set up legitimacy for their continued control of the region and this was achieved by obtaining a mandate from the League of Nations in June 1922. The formal objective of the League of Nations Mandate system was to administer parts of the defunct Ottoman Empire, which had been in control of the Middle East since the 16th century, "until such time as they are able to stand alone."[2]

Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The whole idea of British ownership of the land is a false premise and therefor Roudy's initial post on this thread and all of his subsequent posts are completely inaccurate and should be given the short shrift that they deserve.



Also it is interesting that even though he rested his case, he continues to argue it !!! Oh well, what can you expect from a befuddled mind

 

[Saigon]

I don't see why you deny obvious facts: that the population of Jordan is largely Palestinian.

Yes, of course it is - I actually posted the stats earlier, after Roudy had claimed it was 80%!


Please drop the sniping and sarcasm - I'd rather stick to the topic.

 

[Saigon]

Conquest is the way most borders and states have been established.

True.

But there is a huge difference between Spain conquering half of South America in the 15th century, and Indonesia invading East Timor in 1976. Because the events of 1948, 1867 and 1974 are so recent, so also is our view of law and international recognition.

I hold Israels actions in regard to the OT to the same standard as I do Transnistria and Nagorno Karabakh, and I see no reason to do otherwise.

 

[Lipush]

The land belonged to the British, the Jews did not steal Arab land, they won it from the British. Case CLOSED:

Now run along, Jew hating douchebags!

I gotta admit, this post made me--->

 

[P F Tinmore]

No, I posted the two flags because the two identical flags were created almost at the same time out of the remains the ottoman empire. The Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians were supposed to be in Jordan, and some are. Whoop de doo. How many Palestine's should we have? Palestine Jordan...Palestine Lebanon...Palestine Syria..Palestine Egypt..Palestine Texas...Palestine Dearborn. Oh sorry there is no such thing as a Palestinian Arab it's a made up name.

Roudy -

The point about the flags is simply childish, as I think you now realise yourself.

NZ and Australia have similar flags; Germany and Belgium have similar flags; Russia and Holland have similar flags - this in no way means they are one state. In some cases it means the countries have strong historical ties (e.g. Czech Republic and Slovakia) or it may mean nothing at all.

To make matters worse - you were miles off (a full 25%!) in your estimation of the numbers of Palestinians in Jordan, and in estimating the numbers, proved to us that you also recoognise that there are two people here, and not one.

It would be really encouraging if you could start acknowledging these errors and actually start learning as you go. It might help you look less of a child in future threads.

You are missing the whole point as usual and in your desperate attempt looking for false comparisons. One website will say more Palestinians in Jordan and one will say less. Majority of Jordanians are so called Palestinians that's the point. So how come the Palestinians aren't whining about being occupied by the evil Hashemite Jordanians who stole their land? Eh forget it, they're Muslims too, and besides, they slaughtered 25,000 Palestinians and the world did t even blink an eye. Let's concentrate on those evil Joooos who play nice with the Muslim animals.

Out of the Ottoman empire many countires were carved out. All were Muslim except for one, a homeland for Jews in the land that their ancestors lived. It it seems that this one Joooooish country, that occupies less than 5% of Arab land is the one they keep objecting to. Yup, this ain't a religious issue. It's about land and occupation and blah blah blah.

Israel ain't going nowhere, and it ain't gonna give an inch to these mass murdering savage terrorists. Get used to it. Doesn't matter how much you Jew haters chew on your soiled underwear. Heh heh heh.

One website will say more Palestinians in Jordan and one will say less.

And it is irrelevant so why bring it up?

 

[Artevelde]

Conquest is the way most borders and states have been established.

True.

But there is a huge difference between Spain conquering half of South America in the 15th century, and Indonesia invading East Timor in 1976. Because the events of 1948, 1867 and 1974 are so recent, so also is our view of law and international recognition.

I hold Israels actions in regard to the OT to the same standard as I do Transnistria and Nagorno Karabakh, and I see no reason to do otherwise.

How about China and Tibet? How about the Polish-German borders? How about Kosovo (conquered by Nato from Serbia)? How about the Western Sahara and Morocco? How about India and Goa? ...

 

[jillian]

Conquest is the way most borders and states have been established.

True.

But there is a huge difference between Spain conquering half of South America in the 15th century, and Indonesia invading East Timor in 1976. Because the events of 1948, 1867 and 1974 are so recent, so also is our view of law and international recognition.

I hold Israels actions in regard to the OT to the same standard as I do Transnistria and Nagorno Karabakh, and I see no reason to do otherwise.

those are false standards.

the better analogy is our possession of the land in California and Texas given that the land was won during defensive battle.

carry on.

 

[Artevelde]

I don't see why you deny obvious facts: that the population of Jordan is largely Palestinian.

Yes, of course it is - I actually posted the stats earlier, after Roudy had claimed it was 80%!


Please drop the sniping and sarcasm - I'd rather stick to the topic.

It's probably around 75%, depending of course on who you count in (many Palestinians had their Jordanian citizenship taken away).

 

[Artevelde]

Conquest is the way most borders and states have been established.

True.

But there is a huge difference between Spain conquering half of South America in the 15th century, and Indonesia invading East Timor in 1976. Because the events of 1948, 1867 and 1974 are so recent, so also is our view of law and international recognition.

I hold Israels actions in regard to the OT to the same standard as I do Transnistria and Nagorno Karabakh, and I see no reason to do otherwise.

those are false standards.

the better analogy is our possession of the land in California and Texas given that the land was won during defensive battle.

carry on.

You consider the conquest of California and Texas by the US "defensive battle"? Talk about historical revisionism.

 

[jillian]

I don't see why you deny obvious facts: that the population of Jordan is largely Palestinian.

Yes, of course it is - I actually posted the stats earlier, after Roudy had claimed it was 80%!


Please drop the sniping and sarcasm - I'd rather stick to the topic.

he didn't snipe at you. and i don't see any 'sarcasm'.

palestinians ARE jordanian... the entire AREA was TRANSJORDAN until after WWII.

Do you complain that the United Arab Emirates exists? That was created after WWII, as well.

See why people think those who think like you are masking anti-semitism?

your standards aren't applied equally to the myriad of Arab countries in the region.