I reluctantly admit I think my wife is right.

Mac1958 said:
Trump fired her because (a) he was embarrassed, and (b) his profound self esteem issues cracked and he couldn't handle it.

And the people around him continue to enable him. I blame them more than I blame him. He's just a child. And his flock will take any excuse, no matter how transparent.
Click to expand...
They were chosen because they don't have the integrity it takes to tell him when he's wrong.
 
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...
She was fired for changing the job number results to make Trump look bad.

They fired her for good cause, because falsifying government documents is a felony.
 
Independent thinker said:
You could clear it all up by telling us yourself when you have changed your mind as a result of someone on the right providing you with facts.
Click to expand...
Good idea! Let's all do it.

I'll start:

Back in the days of Bush the Younger, I was debating a BDS* poster about Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina. I said that it is not FEMA's role to be first reponders, it is FEMA's role to bring help in the aftermath of a disaster, often by writing checks. The poster linked me to FEMA's website, and sure enough, Bush's FEMA had stated on their website that part of their mission was coordination of early responders.

I said, "you're right, I was not aware of that." He was happy and surprised. Didn't hurt me a bit to admit it, and I'd do it again. But I'm not going to agree that "Tumpers SUCK," because someone links me to an article by a political hack who uses pop psychology to claim that being Republican is some kind of mental defect.

How about a Democrat or "not Democrat" goes next, hm?
 
Seymour Flops said:
Good idea! Let's all do it.

I'll start:

Back in the days of Bush the Younger, I was debating a BDS* poster about Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina. I said that it is not FEMA's role to be first reponders, it is FEMA's role to bring help in the aftermath of a disaster, often by writing checks. The poster linked me to FEMA's website, and sure enough, Bush's FEMA had stated on their website that part of their mission was coordination of early responders.

I said, "you're right, I was not aware of that." He was happy and surprised. Didn't hurt me a bit to admit it, and I'd do it again. But I'm not going to agree that "Tumpers SUCK," because someone links me to an article by a political hack who uses pop psychology to claim that being Republican is some kind of mental defect.

How about a Democrat or "not Democrat" goes next, hm?
Click to expand...
It's berg's turn. I doubt we'll hear anything from him.
 
mudwhistle said:
She was fired for changing the job number results to make Trump look bad.

They fired her for good cause, because falsifying government documents is a felony.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but no.

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

Trump’s ire was directed at the large revisions to the May and June jobs numbers, which went from a previously reported respectable average of 145,500 new jobs per month to a more concerning 16,500. The revisions were unusually large — the largest since 1979, not counting the pandemic, according to economist Ernie Tedeschi.

But revisions are a normal part of the statistical process and, in fact, one of its strengths in balancing timeliness and accuracy of data. About one-third of the sampled businesses do not return their survey responses on time, so the initial numbers have to make imputations for the missing data. As more survey responses arrive at the B.L.S., the numbers are revised. In addition, the B.L.S. is constantly using an algorithm to do updated seasonal adjustment of its data (e.g., the normal pattern of hiring a lot of retail workers in November and December and laying them off in January); this algorithm was a major factor in the latest revision.
 
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...
Funny. I know lots of liberals, and they're not right about anything. Granted there are plenty of conservatives that run with false information, but it's just not in contention with liberals who live on bad ideas and false information.

Incidentally, I realize liberals are supposed to be more intellectual and such, just ask them. But the reality is they have real trouble reading between the lines, and applying critical thought. Often "fact checks" aren't facts at all, they're tailored to arrive at a determination, and often the determinations are untrue, such as cases where things are mostly true, which they declare mostly false and vise versa.
 
Last edited:
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...

Well, are you suggesting that you would ever have YOUR mind changed? Posting here at USMB should be an indication that, no matter the amount of proof one shows to someone, nobody will ever have their mind changed here.

The two sides are too divided to ever change directions.
 
Mashmont said:
1). Snopes is a leftwing site masquerading as an unbiased source. It is financed by leftwing organizations.
2) "highly respected" is a leftwing buzzword that means "partisan leftwing". James Comey was presented as "highly respected". Merrick Garland was presented as "highly respected". Robert Mueller was presented as "highly respected". All turned out to be leftwing hacks.
Click to expand...
Most of those factors check sites are left leaning.
 
berg80 said:
Sorry, but no.

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

Trump’s ire was directed at the large revisions to the May and June jobs numbers, which went from a previously reported respectable average of 145,500 new jobs per month to a more concerning 16,500. The revisions were unusually large — the largest since 1979, not counting the pandemic, according to economist Ernie Tedeschi.

But revisions are a normal part of the statistical process and, in fact, one of its strengths in balancing timeliness and accuracy of data. About one-third of the sampled businesses do not return their survey responses on time, so the initial numbers have to make imputations for the missing data. As more survey responses arrive at the B.L.S., the numbers are revised. In addition, the B.L.S. is constantly using an algorithm to do updated seasonal adjustment of its data (e.g., the normal pattern of hiring a lot of retail workers in November and December and laying them off in January); this algorithm was a major factor in the latest revision.
Click to expand...
The revisions aren't a normal part of the federal government.
She was cooking the books and got caught red-handed.
 
Mac1958 said:
Trump fired her because (a) he was embarrassed, and (b) his profound self esteem issues cracked and he couldn't handle it.

And the people around him continue to enable him. I blame them more than I blame him. He's just a child. And his flock will take any excuse, no matter how transparent.
Click to expand...
I think you're confusing Trump with Sleepy Joe Biden....aka President Auto-Pen.
 
15th post
mudwhistle said:
She was fired for changing the job number results to make Trump look bad.

They fired her for good cause, because falsifying government documents is a felony.
Click to expand...
Yeah, except she didn’t **** with the stats
She reported them as they were.

Which Trump didn’t like
 
Lesh said:
Yeah, except she didn’t **** with the stats
She reported them as they were.

Which Trump didn’t like
Click to expand...
That's not how it was originally reported.

You may have run to one of your little liberal accuracy check sites set up to gaslight to you, but the original announcement was that she was caught red-handed changing the results of the jobs reports, and was fired for good cause.
 
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...
There is this conclusion, a belief that the vast majority of Dimz have that they will hold onto, no matter how much evidence is presented, by dismissing biological facts, etc.

I wish I could remember what that was.

Let me think. . .
 
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