I have been Called to the Principal's Office

[Ravi]

Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts. Explain, please.

I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.

For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.

Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.

It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.

Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.

There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.

 

[Foxfyre]

Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts. Explain, please.

I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.

For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.

Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.

It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.

Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.

So true. We worked like the dickens to beg, bribe, coerce, persuade, and if necessary shame parents to get involved in the PTA, take their turn doing Home Room duty, show up for parent/teacher conferences and attend the orientation sessions. And once we had all that going, the parents found out they could do that, it was rewarding and fun, and all the kids benefitted. We had booster clubs for the choir, the band, sports, the arts, debate club, etc. etc.etc. But that was decades ago when both teachers and parents took responsibility for the education of the kids.

Now it seems the less parental involvement there is in the schools here, the better they like it. It certainly is not encouraged and too freqently is resented or even rebuffed.

 

[Samson]

I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.

For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.

Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.

It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.

Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.

There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.

By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.

Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ...asking for graded papers!!!

Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.

 

[Annie]

I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.

For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.

Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.

It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.

Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.

So true. We worked like the dickens to beg, bribe, coerce, persuade, and if necessary shame parents to get involved in the PTA, take their turn doing Home Room duty, show up for parent/teacher conferences and attend the orientation sessions. And once we had all that going, the parents found out they could do that, it was rewarding and fun, and all the kids benefitted. We had booster clubs for the choir, the band, sports, the arts, debate club, etc. etc.etc. But that was decades ago when both teachers and parents took responsibility for the education of the kids.

Now it seems the less parental involvement there is in the schools here, the better they like it. It certainly is not encouraged and too freqently is resented or even rebuffed.

I don't know where you guys are at, but there's no shortage of booster clubs for all you put above and more in our high schools. I wrote last week on Veteran's Day of the project the school did for Soldiers' Angels. Parents donated all the materials to make over 4k luminarias put around the school. Bags, sand, electric lights, markers, and flags.

Now I will say that in high schools, parents in homerooms, lunch rooms, etc., are not wanted, by students or staff. They do come in for conferences with teachers, etc. That is the norm, as it was back when I was in school, when Chicago was a prairie. They certainly have their work cut out on getting the non-drivers from one thing to another, making sure homework is done, schlepping them around to college visits, hosting dinners before the next meets, games, concerts, debates, etc. They are instrumental in raising funds and helping with rallies, special events, and other ways to show support for the schools, teams, and clubs.

In truth, though I've never had the problem, since I've only worked secondary, parents generally are disruptive in schools if they are interacting with the kids. Honestly, I was a parent before being a teacher and volunteered for reading helper, clean up person, room mother, etc. I'm sure most parents are fine, but heh, you all know the one that will hear a child read or see their writing or notice a graded paper and tell others how 'smart' or 'behind' that child is. It causes no limits of pain for kids, parents, and the teachers. Worse case are very bad teachers that will let parents grade papers for them, they should be fired!

 

[Ravi]

Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.

There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.

By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.

Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ...asking for graded papers!!!

Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.

IMO, control freak means dictating how teachers should teach YOUR child at the expense of others.

 

[Samson]

There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.

By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.

Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ...asking for graded papers!!!

Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.

IMO, control freak means dictating how teachers should teach YOUR child at the expense of others.

"expense of others?"

Could you be less vaugly moronic, and explain how grading papers costs anyone anything?

 

[saveliberty]

The union asked substitute teachers to stop grading papers, holding parent teacher conferences, while they negoiate with the Detroit school district over pay increases for the long term subs. Sort of says it all, in my opinion.

 

[syrenn]

I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.

For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.

Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.

It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.

Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.

There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.

Asking for graded work back is not being a control freak. Its asking to see teacher involvement and that is what i am very sure they are bitching and pissed off about.

 

[Annie]

The union asked substitute teachers to stop grading papers, holding parent teacher conferences, while they negoiate with the Detroit school district over pay increases for the long term subs. Sort of says it all, in my opinion.

I don't disagree with you about the effect of unions on the schools or the incredibly idiotic people running some school districts. However, I don't see the relationship to any of that on this topic. Maybe I'm missing something? I thought this was more or less about parents and their involvement or not in schools and the schools reaction to such?

 

[syrenn]

The union asked substitute teachers to stop grading papers, holding parent teacher conferences, while they negoiate with the Detroit school district over pay increases for the long term subs. Sort of says it all, in my opinion.

The unions are what is wrong with schools now.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.

So true. We worked like the dickens to beg, bribe, coerce, persuade, and if necessary shame parents to get involved in the PTA, take their turn doing Home Room duty, show up for parent/teacher conferences and attend the orientation sessions. And once we had all that going, the parents found out they could do that, it was rewarding and fun, and all the kids benefitted. We had booster clubs for the choir, the band, sports, the arts, debate club, etc. etc.etc. But that was decades ago when both teachers and parents took responsibility for the education of the kids.

Now it seems the less parental involvement there is in the schools here, the better they like it. It certainly is not encouraged and too freqently is resented or even rebuffed.

I don't know where you guys are at, but there's no shortage of booster clubs for all you put above and more in our high schools. I wrote last week on Veteran's Day of the project the school did for Soldiers' Angels. Parents donated all the materials to make over 4k luminarias put around the school. Bags, sand, electric lights, markers, and flags.

Now I will say that in high schools, parents in homerooms, lunch rooms, etc., are not wanted, by students or staff. They do come in for conferences with teachers, etc. That is the norm, as it was back when I was in school, when Chicago was a prairie. They certainly have their work cut out on getting the non-drivers from one thing to another, making sure homework is done, schlepping them around to college visits, hosting dinners before the next meets, games, concerts, debates, etc. They are instrumental in raising funds and helping with rallies, special events, and other ways to show support for the schools, teams, and clubs.

In truth, though I've never had the problem, since I've only worked secondary, parents generally are disruptive in schools if they are interacting with the kids. Honestly, I was a parent before being a teacher and volunteered for reading helper, clean up person, room mother, etc. I'm sure most parents are fine, but heh, you all know the one that will hear a child read or see their writing or notice a graded paper and tell others how 'smart' or 'behind' that child is. It causes no limits of pain for kids, parents, and the teachers. Worse case are very bad teachers that will let parents grade papers for them, they should be fired!

Yes we tried to explain to parents that volunteering at the school or taking interest in their kids was not the same thing as being right there with them which we did not encourage. We had a good relationship with our kids, but other than occasionally tolerating us as chaperones at dances or school bus trips or showing up at awards banquets, etc., we knew we were to stay pretty well out of sight.

I am part of a group, however, who do volunteer in the elementary school--most especially two that have a high number of 'disadvantaged' kids. We work with the kids one on one to assist with mostly reading, reading comprehension, writing, and math. The teachers who welcome us in have been great. That sadly is not the case in every school however.

And agreed. Parents should not be grading papers or put in a position where their kids and other kids 'performance' is in their face in any way. I can't see anything positive coming from that.

 

[Annie]

So true. We worked like the dickens to beg, bribe, coerce, persuade, and if necessary shame parents to get involved in the PTA, take their turn doing Home Room duty, show up for parent/teacher conferences and attend the orientation sessions. And once we had all that going, the parents found out they could do that, it was rewarding and fun, and all the kids benefitted. We had booster clubs for the choir, the band, sports, the arts, debate club, etc. etc.etc. But that was decades ago when both teachers and parents took responsibility for the education of the kids.

Now it seems the less parental involvement there is in the schools here, the better they like it. It certainly is not encouraged and too freqently is resented or even rebuffed.

I don't know where you guys are at, but there's no shortage of booster clubs for all you put above and more in our high schools. I wrote last week on Veteran's Day of the project the school did for Soldiers' Angels. Parents donated all the materials to make over 4k luminarias put around the school. Bags, sand, electric lights, markers, and flags.

Now I will say that in high schools, parents in homerooms, lunch rooms, etc., are not wanted, by students or staff. They do come in for conferences with teachers, etc. That is the norm, as it was back when I was in school, when Chicago was a prairie. They certainly have their work cut out on getting the non-drivers from one thing to another, making sure homework is done, schlepping them around to college visits, hosting dinners before the next meets, games, concerts, debates, etc. They are instrumental in raising funds and helping with rallies, special events, and other ways to show support for the schools, teams, and clubs.

In truth, though I've never had the problem, since I've only worked secondary, parents generally are disruptive in schools if they are interacting with the kids. Honestly, I was a parent before being a teacher and volunteered for reading helper, clean up person, room mother, etc. I'm sure most parents are fine, but heh, you all know the one that will hear a child read or see their writing or notice a graded paper and tell others how 'smart' or 'behind' that child is. It causes no limits of pain for kids, parents, and the teachers. Worse case are very bad teachers that will let parents grade papers for them, they should be fired!

Yes we tried to explain to parents that volunteering at the school or taking interest in their kids was not the same thing as being right there with them which we did not encourage. We had a good relationship with our kids, but other than occasionally tolerating us as chaperones at dances or school bus trips or showing up at awards banquets, etc., we knew we were to stay pretty well out of sight.

I am part of a group, however, who do volunteer in the elementary school--most especially two that have a high number of 'disadvantaged' kids. We work with the kids one on one to assist with mostly reading, reading comprehension, writing, and math. The teachers who welcome us in have been great. That sadly is not the case in every school however.

And agreed. Parents should not be grading papers or put in a position where their kids and other kids 'performance' is in their face in any way. I can't see anything positive coming from that.

Well you seem like a good parent. Yep, when chaperons needed, parents are great. Again this doesn't happen as often at the secondary level in most cases. The kids really love it when parents come to games, meets, competitions of any sort. Same with concerts, recitals, plays, debates, etc.

Lower grades it would depend on the school. If they are using parents in classrooms or activities outside of their child's room I can see that as a better alternative. Still there's likely neighborhood kids involved. It's not the 'good' parents that are the problem, it's those that are nasty to begin with. They look for things, it can be something like messy hair or talking/laughing too loud. For some reason they just need to say something to other people.

In general the best help a teacher can get in any grades are parents that start their toddlers off right with solid schedules on sleeping and eating. Learning to care for themselves about brushing teeth and hair, regular bathing. Give them small 'chores' as 2 and 3 year olds, keep increasing as they are able. Make them do them. Reward them from time-to-time. Talk to them, encourage responses. Ask questions, let them answer. Ask again for more detail or explanations. Read to them. Read to them. Let them tell you stories. Encourage them to be observant and make predictions. (Oh! Look at the sky, what do you think we can do today? Outside or inside? Warm jacket or shorts?)

Take them shopping, help them learn colors and shades of colors. Let them see you looking at labels, tell them why you do.

Ask them about preschool and friends. What do they like? What don't they like? Why?

When the start K or 1st and begin homework, keep up schedules. Set time to do homework-that works for your family. When mine were small I was at home. So I'd walk to the school and we'd walk home. The kids changed clothes, had a snack and then it was homework. They could go outside or watch tv until time to make dinner. If parents are working, probably going to be different-but don't expect the after school program to actually make sure that the homework is done correctly! You need to check it and talk to your child about it.

A thing about 'homework.' If you look at a paper and it's just 'all wrong,' ask your child what the lesson was. It doesn't matter what grade, kindergarten or high school. If the response is that it was just assigned and new material, I wouldn't make the child redo it, but I would send an attached note to the teacher asking when it was taught. I'd ask them to sign and return the note. If it's 'new material', not covered in class, it shouldn't be assigned as homework. Homework is for reinforcing, not learning.

On the other hand, reading assignments and 'study for the test' are assignments. The first is unlikely until 4th grade and up, but is to build some base of knowledge before the lesson. Often it is also to jog memories of the topic from a year or so ago.

 

[kwc57]

There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.

By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.

Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ...asking for graded papers!!!

Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.

IMO, control freak means dictating how teachers should teach YOUR child at the expense of others.

And had you actually read this thread, you'd know that has nothing to do with what Samson asked.

 

[sangha]

All teachers complied with my policy this week.

Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.

Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?

I taught him to advocate for himself in the face of unmoving bureaucracy, and how to win against unyielding bullshit.

King George III may be your hero, but he's not mine. You go ahead and teach your kids to be pussies, and how to bend over every time they're told to reach for the soap.

I'm sure you'll be a great example.

In wingnut world, doing something for their child is how wingnuts teach their children to do things for themselves.

Hey Samson, wasn't this all precipitated by your childs' failure to bring the graded work home for you to see? How about you teach the child to bring the graded work for you to see??

 

[sangha]

I think a tenth grader should be self directed to some extent and not need mommy or daddy reviewing his work at every turn.

If this had been a problem with a particular teacher...fine. But squidboi decided at the beginning of the year that all teachers were evil and stupid and acted accordingly.

Yes, and money should grow on trees in the backyard and we shouldn't have to go to work either. There is fantasy and there is real life. Should a tenth grader be self directed? Yes, hopefully and a few are. But many are not. Parents have a responsibility to raise their children and turn them into decent, educated, self sufficient adults. The school is where we are forced by law to send them for their book learning. Keeping track of the progress and the quality of that education is what any intelligent and responsible parent would do. Obviously, you have never raised a child. If so and you were the type that dropped them at the door to be babysat and never gave another thought to their education beyond that......well, you probably got what you deserved.

Maybe in your world, but not mine.

As for the rest of your post...piss off.

You want to raise namby pambies that can't think for themselves and need a hovercraft to guide them, be my guest. Don't whine to me when they still live in your basement at 30.

Take it easy on the wingnuts, ravi. They're just indoctrinating their spawn to believe they are entitled to a govt that will nanny their children for them. That's what happens when welfare queen wingnuts develop a dependency on the govt to raise their children, This way, when their children grow up to be failures, their children can blame the govt, just like mommy and daddy does.

 

[sangha]

If tenth graders should be able to fend for themselves without any adult supervision, why don't we just declare them legal adults at that age? And then idiots like Ravi can start bitching about how EIGHTH graders should be totally independent. I don't personally think 18-year-olds are all that capable of running their lives without any guidance, and while a tenth grader should certainly have more self-discipline than a kid in elementary school, they ARE still children and their parents ARE still - hopefully - teaching them the ropes of being adults.

Some people are just Bitchy.

It sure in hell would be nice to just have kids fend for themselves at 16, but then they'd be taking the jobs away from the Ravinoids: those who were abandoned by their parents at an early age because they were clearly going to be idiots as adults, no matter how much effort their parents tried to change them.

In wingnut world, getting your child to bring his graded class work home is so difficult, it can be compared to abandoning your child.

 

[sangha]

By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.

Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ...asking for graded papers!!!

Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.

IMO, control freak means dictating how teachers should teach YOUR child at the expense of others.

"expense of others?"

Could you be less vaugly moronic, and explain how grading papers costs anyone anything?

Samson is so dishonest, he can't even be honest about what he's asking for

He's already admitted that the teachers are grading the papers. What samson is asking for is that every teacher send samson a graded paper every week. I wonder why samson can't be honest about something so simple

 

[Samson]

In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to FURTHER express my concerns.

This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:

1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.

The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.

It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!

Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!

 

[xotoxi]

In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to FURTHER express my concerns.

This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:

1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.

The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.

It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!

Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!

As a parent, you are not going to go to a meeting to discuss your child's school progress and the means by which you would like to assess said progress...because you have better things to do???

RICH!

 

[kwc57]

In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to FURTHER express my concerns.

This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:

1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.

The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.

It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!

Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!

Now isn't the time to throw in the towel.