Zone1 I believe in free will

[catatomic]

Speaking of 'GOD', if you believe:

God created all life.
All life wants to survive, thrive and propagate.
All life must consume other life in order to survive.
All life must kill other life to survive a therefore force that life to suffer.
All life will suffer and die.

Those are the basic rules your God created.

Perhaps you should rethink what is really good and what is really evil:

So be a Jainist!

 

[catatomic]

My reply was a denial of that claim. Again, we came up with our decisions inside our own heads but in order for omniscient God to know what it will ultimately be, our “choice” can only be an illusion. We didn’t really ever have that choice if the outcome is already a given.

Somebody chooses over someone else. I'm stating that the decision can sometimes be isolated to come from one human.

 

[catatomic]

So in biblical context I assume that "decides without instruction" means taking a risk by not following the bible.

Not not following the Bible.
Doing something the Bible doesn't dictate about.

 

[MarathonMike]

Not not following the Bible.
Doing something the Bible doesn't dictate about.

What doesn't the Bible dictate about? You are very evasive and seem to keep adding new conditions to the discussion.

 

[BackAgain]

Somebody chooses over someone else. I'm stating that the decision can sometimes be isolated to come from one human.

We seem to be talking past each other.

If God’s omniscient, He already knows what my “choice” will be.

If He knows it before I make my decision, then that decision was never a free “choice.” It was predestined.

EITHER Free Willl is actually an illusion OR God cannot “know” what it “will be,” in advance. But it can’t be both.

 

[Hum Dinger]

So be a Jainist!

I'm an atheist, but I do enjoy playing devil's advocate (literally) whenever I'm in a discussion with religious people!

 

[MarathonMike]

It’s all pre determined.

Why do you think psychics can see your future? It’s already laid out.

I've never had a psychic predict my future, so I can't speak to that. I don't believe in the concept of pre-determinism. To me, It would be pointless for the 'Creator' to meticulously layout the course of every single person's life. Where's the fun in that? It would be far more intriguing to grant free will, sit back and watch the show.

 

[Mister Iggy]

I've never had a psychic predict my future, so I can't speak to that. I don't believe in the concept of pre-determinism. To me, It would be pointless for the 'Creator' to meticulously layout the course of every single person's life. Where's the fun in that? It would be far more intriguing to grant free will, sit back and watch the show.

Essentially you are the creator.. dont limit yourself.

It’s a pretty strong force to break free from, the ego mind. Once you do, perspectives completely change. Most people only experience that on death. You will only see that through direct experience.. it’s pointless just taking my word or anyone’s word on anything really.

Have you ever wondered what dreams are?

Seems real.

What if when you wake up in the morning that’s just another dream? If you can break through that realization, your perspectives will change on everything.

 

[catatomic]

What doesn't the Bible dictate about? You are very evasive and seem to keep adding new conditions to the discussion.

I do social media like chess. I see where people are going and make my move.

The Torah has 304805 characters so it can't cover infinity. Unless the letters are special. However, I respect the opinion that it covers everything.

AI? Does it cover AI? I'm really not sure.

 

[catatomic]

We seem to be talking past each other.

If God’s omniscient, He already knows what my “choice” will be.

If He knows it before I make my decision, then that decision was never a free “choice.” It was predestined.

EITHER Free Willl is actually an illusion OR God cannot “know” what it “will be,” in advance. But it can’t be both.

I'm sorry I've tried to explain it.

 

[BackAgain]

I'm sorry I've tried to explain it.

I know. But it doesn’t make any sense.
It is inherently a contradiction.

 

[MarathonMike]

Essentially you are the creator.. dont limit yourself.

It’s a pretty strong force to break free from, the ego mind. Once you do, perspectives completely change. Most people only experience that on death. You will only see that through direct experience.. it’s pointless just taking my word or anyone’s word on anything really.

Have you ever wondered what dreams are?

Seems real.

What if when you wake up in the morning that’s just another dream? If you can break through that realization, your perspectives will change on everything.

That's an interesting perspective but I don't see how we are the creators of ourselves. I don't feel like I'm limiting myself, quite the opposite. For some crazy reason we are all walking around in these meat suits breathing air, eating, pooping and thinking about stuff. Cognito Ergo Sum.

 

[Mister Iggy]

That's an interesting perspective but I don't see how we are the creators of ourselves. I don't feel like I'm limiting myself, quite the opposite. For some crazy reason we are all walking around in these meat suits breathing air, eating, pooping and thinking about stuff. Cognito Ergo Sum.

It’s hard to see the real truth of everything. It’s designed that way.

We come for an experience.

Life is a consciousness expression within a dream landscape.

 

[MarathonMike]

We come for an experience.

Yes that's kind of what I have concluded. We get a few decades to experience biological life and then return to whatever or wherever we came from.

 

[catatomic]

I know. But it doesn’t make any sense.
It is inherently a contradiction.

I was able to make a long explanation on another site that might still help:

My friend is a neurosurgeon, a great one I suppose, and he believes in free will.

The idea is that when taking a risk with incomplete instructions, the brain can work with itself to actually come up with something new. The brain can say, OK I know this and this and this. Now lets piece together something original by myself. I will do something on my own that had not been done yet. And so the brain actually formulates something for which the credit can only be given to it.

Yes, God knew it would happen. Yes, the decision was based on previous determinism in the Universe. But the brain still decided something that only credit could be given to itself for.

AI can't generate truth, but a brain can.

 

[Zafira Cherry]

Will you leave Christians like OhPleaseJustQuit Road Runner and me alone? We are not a cult. You are part of Satan's cult.

Your behavior on this site is far from Christian

 

[Delldude]

Your behavior on this site is far from Christian

Judge not......

 

[The Duke]

I've been on this website since Bush but I wanted to introduce a new part of me.

I prayed that the President would do the right thing even if I didn't recognize it.


God did me one better.


There's a scripture in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that says men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause and do many things of their own free will..


I thought there was no scientific way there is free will but now I realize you can take risks and do things uninstructed.


I believe in free will, and I'm ready for it so I can live a better life.

Okay.

 

[BackAgain]

I was able to make a long explanation on another site that might still help:

My friend is a neurosurgeon, a great one I suppose, and he believes in free will.

The idea is that when taking a risk with incomplete instructions, the brain can work with itself to actually come up with something new. The brain can say, OK I know this and this and this. Now lets piece together something original by myself. I will do something on my own that had not been done yet. And so the brain actually formulates something for which the credit can only be given to it.

Yes, God knew it would happen. Yes, the decision was based on previous determinism in the Universe. But the brain still decided something that only credit could be given to itself for.

AI can't generate truth, but a brain can.

I respect your defense of the contradiction. I would like to believe in both free will and the omniscience of God.

But if I make a decision to do a thing, and even if I have weighed all the options and come to my conclusion as rationally as I can, it is only an illusion of free will IF it is so predetermined that God can already know it, in advance.

If it is truly free will, then there is no way it can be known in advance.

Therefore, if we do have free will, then God cannot be omniscient.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I respect your defense of the contradiction. I would like to believe in both free will and the omniscience of God.

But if I make a decision to do a thing, and even if I have weighed all the options and come to my conclusion as rationally as I can, it is only an illusion of free will IF it is so predetermined that God can already know it, in advance.

If it is truly free will, then there is no way it can be known in advance.

Therefore, if we do have free will, then God cannot be omniscient.

I just knew you'd say that