Zone1 I believe in free will

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It does matter if God knows it in advanced; for, in that case, the “choice” is predetermined and thus not a product of free will at all.

I’m sorry you don’t get the it.

Not if the god character in question sees all time as one moment. Then it's not necessarily predestined.

 

[MarathonMike]

The linking of judgement to a person's life that was predetermined is the fundamental quandary, I believe. Whether God perceives time as one instant or not is secondary. God either granted true free will or he/she/it did not grant free will.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The linking of judgement to a person's life that was predetermined is the fundamental quandary, I believe. Whether God perceives time as one instant or not is secondary. God either granted true free will or he/she/it did not grant free will.

It matters if one says God knowing the outcomes means it's all predetermined.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Complete Or Incomplete Open Or Closed Not An Introduce Yourself Thread "

* Stochastic Bounds Within Infinite Probabilities *

A fate is a fatalism , which is an event that comes to pass given probabilities , not certainties , from an infinite set of possibilities .

A destiny is a most likely possibility for a fate that results from a sum of all probabilities , though choosing a different fate can change destiny .

A destiny can be highly probable and in a sense predictable , while destiny is open ended and can be modified through alternative options for events of fate .

Presuming a basis of existence is an infinite set of infinitesimals , as each infinitesimal lacks a sophisticated state necessary for introspection , free will is available through a basis with indifference .

* Zoo Us *

Apparently made in the image of goad for some means all things are masculine and women secretly have a phallus and testicles .

 

[MarathonMike]

It matters if one says God knowing the outcomes means it's all predetermined.

Being able to see the outcomes is different than controlling all of the events in the course of someone's life, which is how I define pre- determinism.

 

[BackAgain]

Not if the god character in question sees all time as one moment. Then it's not necessarily predestined.

Yes; even then.

 

[catatomic]

Logic is a significant part of using the brain.

Yes; I can and do. And I say that as a believer in God and in free will.

Then you agree with me already.

But logic then demands that it follows (unavoidably) that God cannot “know” how I will decide or what will come as a consequence of my free will.

There's a theory I just read that the Torah wasn't arranged and different things could happen and when an event happened the letters arranged themselves or there was a space bar. God might have free will too and so might His Universe.

 

[BackAgain]

Then you agree with me already.

Up to the point where you try to claim that “free will” s consistent with an Omniscient God. That’s where we fully disagree. .

There's a theory I just read that the Torah wasn't arranged and different things could happen and when an event happened the letters arranged themselves or there was a space bar. God might have free will too and so might His Universe.

If God knows what the future will be, then we don’t have actual free will. We have just an illusion of it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Being able to see the outcomes is different than controlling all of the events in the course of someone's life, which is how I define pre- determinism.

I would agree.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yes; even then.

No, not necessarily. Not if all time is one. Then before and after have no meaning.

 

[BackAgain]

No, not necessarily. Not if all time is one. Then before and after have no meaning.

Time is not one.

Your suggestion id a baseless and silly premise.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Time is not one.

To us.

I refer to a fictional god character outside of our timeline, observing it.

 

[catatomic]

Up to the point where you try to claim that “free will” s consistent with an Omniscient God. That’s where we fully disagree. .

If God knows what the future will be, then we don’t have actual free will. We have just an illusion of it.

the idea is that you can come up with new things

Since you don't seem to want to change your mind, can God create multiverses based on different choices?

 

[catatomic]

No, not necessarily. Not if all time is one. Then before and after have no meaning.

I still don't believe in time, but velocity. It can sometimes be observed instantaneously.

 

[BackAgain]

the idea is that you can come up with new things

We do come up with new things.

I’d attribute that to the ingenuity of humans.

Since you don't seem to want to change your mind,

And you do? ?? lol.

can God create multiverses based on different choices?

I have no idea whether there are (in reality) any multiverses. Do you?

And are you now contending that God creates another parallel inverse every time one of us has a new idea?

 

[catatomic]

We do come up with new things.

I’d attribute that to the ingenuity of humans.

Great-that's all it was.

And you do? ?? lol.

It was your belief that kept me thinking like you for most of my life. I just wanted to point out what I've already showed you. See start of this post.

Everittean physics. Yes every event can split the Universe in two. That is on the books.

 

[luiza]

Will you leave Christians like OhPleaseJustQuit Road Runner and me alone? We are not a cult. You are part of Satan's cult.

Unfortunately you are also what others see you to be, and not just what you imagine yourself to be .
And if you are brimming with Faith and Arrogance it should not matter what others think . You should brush off disagreement and seek solace with your saviour , Jesus the Essene monk .

I believe as strongly as you disagree that you represent a Cult and that unwittingly you are -- in the final analysis --- a force for Evil -- as all liars are .
Whether they are deliberate or unwitting deceivers .

This has little or even nothing to do with personal liking or animosity but is more of a personal comment / criticism about a general and collective narrative .

But imho .

 

[LibertyKid]

Being able to see the outcomes is different than controlling all of the events in the course of someone's life, which is how I define pre- determinism.

There is also the concept of open theology or open theism. Where God knows all things, but only to the moment of right now. The concept that God has predetermined all things is counter to a God of Love. Which many non-Christians, atheists, agnostics, struggle with. Classic Christianity that tries to harmonize images of the OT God verses the NT God, by accident, create theological conundrums. If God is all knowing, and has predetermined all things, then why evil. Great question and it's a tough one to answer and get around.

But, perhaps the answer is that God god is only omniscient of what we have done. The 'now' moment, is up to us. If god has predetermined all things, then evil is God's hand, and there are some sects of Christianity that proudly places that trophy in God's hand (looking at you worshipers of John Calvin) and all things serve to glorify god. But, if the day of Judgement comes, why should anyone be to blame for their sinful nature if God had made them that way? Man should never hold God accountable for their own actions, if God is a god of Love.

For man to be culpable, we must have the capacity to choose. Period.

So is the OT wrong when it talks of God's omniscience. Probably. Why? Because the Jews got God and his nature wrong, or because Christians have interpreted incorrectly what is contained in the Tanakh. Perhaps it's a mix of both. And how do I know the Jews may have misappropriated traits to God or didn't fully know how to express them, it's because they didn't recognize him when he was right in front of them.

 

[MarathonMike]

There is also the concept of open theology or open theism. Where God knows all things, but only to the moment of right now. The concept that God has predetermined all things is counter to a God of Love. Which many non-Christians, atheists, agnostics, struggle with. Classic Christianity that tries to harmonize images of the OT God verses the NT God, by accident, create theological conundrums. If God is all knowing, and has predetermined all things, then why evil. Great question and it's a tough one to answer and get around.

But, perhaps the answer is that God god is only omniscient of what we have done. The 'now' moment, is up to us. If god has predetermined all things, then evil is God's hand, and there are some sects of Christianity that proudly places that trophy in God's hand (looking at you worshipers of John Calvin) and all things serve to glorify god. But, if the day of Judgement comes, why should anyone be to blame for their sinful nature if God had made them that way? Man should never hold God accountable for their own actions, if God is a god of Love.

For man to be culpable, we must have the capacity to choose. Period.

So is the OT wrong when it talks of God's omniscience. Probably. Why? Because the Jews got God and his nature wrong, or because Christians have interpreted incorrectly what is contained in the Tanakh. Perhaps it's a mix of both. And how do I know the Jews may have misappropriated traits to God or didn't fully know how to express them, it's because they didn't recognize him when he was right in front of them.

One of my personal guiding philosophies is "TRUTH IS SIMPLE". If an explanation explodes into complication and multi-conditions, I'm out. I have believed since a teen-ager that the only logical explanation for God's role with humanity is that of a benevolent creator and observer of what he/she/it has created.

 

[0311]

I've been on this website since Bush but I wanted to introduce a new part of me.

I prayed that the President would do the right thing even if I didn't recognize it.


God did me one better.


There's a scripture in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that says men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause and do many things of their own free will..


I thought there was no scientific way there is free will but now I realize you can take risks and do things uninstructed.


I believe in free will, and I'm ready for it so I can live a better life.

NO, you're just brain dead MAGA MAGGOT lemming. Fuck god.