Zone1 I believe in free will

I respect your defense of the contradiction. I would like to believe in both free will and the omniscience of God.

But if I make a decision to do a thing, and even if I have weighed all the options and come to my conclusion as rationally as I can, it is only an illusion of free will IF it is so predetermined that God can already know it, in advance.

If it is truly free will, then there is no way it can be known in advance.

Therefore, if we do have free will, then God cannot be omniscient.
Maybe it's too heavy to accept. Try clearing your mind and being willing to do hard things and maybe you will see too. I had to be ready for it. God has timing you know!
 
Maybe it's too heavy to accept. Try clearing your mind and being willing to do hard things and maybe you will see too. I had to be ready for it. God has timing you know!
Or, maybe you simply need to accept that the two things are mutually exclusive.
 
Or, maybe you simply need to accept that the two things are mutually exclusive.
Well, nice to talk to you. You're always welcome back again.

We are talking about whether or not a man can decide something by himself. If he can, it doesn't matter if God knew it; he still can.
 
Well, nice to talk to you. You're always welcome back again.

We are talking about whether or not a man can decide something by himself. If he can, it doesn't matter if God knew it; he still can.
It does matter if God knows it in advanced; for, in that case, the “choice” is predetermined and thus not a product of free will at all.

I’m sorry you don’t get the it.
 
It does matter if God knows it in advanced; for, in that case, the “choice” is predetermined and thus not a product of free will at all.

I’m sorry you don’t get the it.
Please note that I do think things are predetermined. I do think there's a God.

Well, anyway I don't believe in time, but I do believe in velocity.

Sometimes when you look at something in an instance you can see that it has velocity or not, sometimes you can't tell.
 
Please note that I do think things are predetermined.
That’s fine. But it negates free will.
I do think there's a God.
That’s fine. Me too.
Well, anyway I don't believe in time, but I do believe in velocity.
The believe in time and velocity.
Sometimes when you look at something in an instance you can see that it has velocity or not, sometimes you can't tell.
Unclear.

If you can’t assess whether a body is in motion or not, that doesn’t mean that it’s still and it doesn’t mean it is in motion. It means only that YOU can’t tell.

But how that pertains to the discussion is a mystery.
 
That’s fine. But it negates free will.

That’s fine. Me too.

The believe in time and velocity.

Unclear.

If you can’t assess whether a body is in motion or not, that doesn’t mean that it’s still and it doesn’t mean it is in motion. It means only that YOU can’t tell.

But how that pertains to the discussion is a mystery.
Can a clock tell time?
Can a brain come up with new math?

That is all I'm saying. The brain can do what it's built for.
 
Can a clock tell time?
Can a brain come up with new math?

That is all I'm saying. The brain can do what it's built for.
The brain can make use of logic.

That which is predetermined is antithetical to being a product of free will. And vice versa.
 
The brain can make use of logic.

That which is predetermined is antithetical to being a product of free will. And vice versa.
Human language goes well beyond logic. And the idea is that you can come up with new things.
 
Don't forget that it's mathematically impossible for a human to know everything in any formal system, so they can genuinely get closer.
 
Ok. But they are nevertheless mutually exclusive.
Human language goes well beyond logic. And the idea is that you can come up with new things.

Don't forget that it's mathematically impossible for a human to know everything in any formal system, so they can genuinely get closer.
 
Human language goes well beyond logic.
Logic is a significant part of using the brain.
And the idea is that you can come up with new things.
Yes; I can and do. And I say that as a believer in God and in free will.

But logic then demands that it follows (unavoidably) that God cannot “know” how I will decide or what will come as a consequence of my free will.
 
If we don't have free will and our choices are pre-determined, how can we be held accountable for our transgressions?

Why would God need to even give instructions and laws to obey?
 
If we don't have free will and our choices are pre-determined, how can we be held accountable for our transgressions?

Why would God need to even give instructions and laws to obey?
I've been listening the Christians tie themselves in knots with these ridiculous assertions since I was a kid. They pretend they "know" something that flies in the face of common sense.
 
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