Hypothetical question for my fellow atheists

[Czernobog]

Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven

No one will reign in Hell. Even the Devil will be there against his will. He will not have any power in Hell. No one will. So I would gladly serve my Creator.

Good for you.

I for one won't bow to a bloodthirsty god like the one in the bible

Why do you think He's bloodthirsty? Can you point to one massacre where they didn't deserve it?

What did infants, and babies do to deserve death?

What did they do to deserve life?

Nope. Insufficient response. Your question was to point to a massacre where those massacred didn't deserve it. The implication being that every. Single. Person. ever massacred at the command of God deserved it.

So? What did those babies, and infants do to deserve to be massacred? If they did nothing, then there is your massacre where they didn't deserve it.

 

[Czernobog]

Except, following your line of thought, part of that moral code the Creator created is Do. Not. Murder. Pretty sure that genocide is a violation of that code. As for "most of us are wrong", I would ask, in what way? We got the code wrong? How? Do not murder seems pretty rational to me. Genocide? Not so much.

Unless it is moral for the Creator only

Then the Creaor is not moral. Why would you willingly look for, and worship a creator whose number one command is "Dos as I say, not as I do,"?

If the assumption that God is perfect it must follow

If God is not perfect then each individual gets to determine what morality is for his/herself

And that is the problem. How can a perfect creator create such an obviously flawed moral code, as one that starts , and ends with "Do as I say, not as I do,"?

Because God knows what is best for us. We are not equal to or with God. Think of it like a parent/child relationship

"Do as I say, not as I do" is not an indication of a person, or entity who "knows what is best for us". It is the last defence of a hypocrite barking out arbitrary rules that he knows are unreasonable, and even he himself does not follow.

 

[Czernobog]

So, I've a hypothetical for you guys that I am curious about. I maintain that my atheism is a premise, not a conclusion. When I say, "God does not exist", I am presenting a falsifiable premise that is only awaiting objective, verifiable evidence.

Now, with that in mind, let us say that evidence is discovered tomorrow. Now only do we have absolute proof of the existence of God, but we even have absolute evidence that the Christian version of God exists. Could you just "fall in line"? Could you just "become" a Christian.

See, I don't think I could. If we suddenly had the objective evidence necessary to prove that the Christian God exists, that would mean that we, also, have to accept that the Bible is not just a book of stories, and is, in fact, an accurate record of the nature of that God. And that record indicates that he drown the entire race, as far as man understood it to be at that time. This God demanded his favourites to commit genocide...twice. This God chose one person, and intentionally made his life miserable, just for sport (a wager with Lucifer). In short, the Bible portrays a God that is a sociopath.

I don't know that, even with irrefutable evidence that the Christian God exists, that I could become a follower of that God.

I have always said that, given evidence,. I would change my position from atheism to one of theism. However, if I learned that the Christian God was the "God of Creation", I don't think that theism would be a respectful one. I think my position would have to be, "Okay. God exists...and he's a dick," and would accept whatever consequences taking that position would engender.

So, what about you guys? If we suddenly had evidence that Christians had it right all along, could you just become "Good Little Christians"?

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

and that if you didn't, it's eternal hellfire.


you sir, are a complete idiot.

Maybe. But I will not bend a knee to a genocidal despot.

 

[Spare_change]

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

and that if you didn't, it's eternal hellfire.


you sir, are a complete idiot.

Is that how they teach you to proselytize at your church? If so, you need a new church

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

.

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

the two are not the same ... seriously, the teachings of - is found in that book.

Idc

this is about, if you got proof that the Christ god is real, would you worship him.


clearly only a complete dunce wouldn't fall in line

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

Again, you expose the thin veneer of your knowledge.

God doesn't require that we worship him ... he requires only thanksgiving. It ain't about Him - it's about a recognition and gratitude for the eternal life.

In Psalm 50, God corrected his people who thought he somehow needed the sacrifices he commanded:

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you;
your burnt offerings are continually before me.
I will not accept a bull from your house
or goats from your folds.
For every beast of the forest is mine,
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know all the birds of the hills,
and all that moves in the field is mine.
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats? (8-13)

God didn’t need their sacrifices. He doesn’t need our worship either. God has no needs. He is infinitely perfect and complete. For all eternity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship. God never gets hungry, lonely or unhappy. He is the fountain of all joy and gladness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and perform your vows to the Most High,
and call upon me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (14-15)

God says here is how to please me: offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, then perform your promises to thank me when I deliver you from trouble, then call on me the next time you’re in trouble. I’ll rescue you again and you will glorify me again by thanking me.

Our worship glorifies God. But he doesn’t need it. So why does God tell us to do these things? For our benefit!

He doesn’t need our obedience or our money. He is completely self-sufficient. When we thank and praise him it blesses us! It increases our joy and delight in him.

God has designed us to enjoy beauty and excellence and to express that enjoyment. We enjoy the of glory of nature, amazing athletic feats, delicious food, great movies, and a thousand other blessings, and we increase our enjoyment when we express it. When we see a sunset or the Grand Canyon we can’t help but say, “Wow that is so beautiful.” When we watch an athlete make a fantastic play we have to cheer. And when we express our admiration of a Van Gogh or Hanz Zimmer soundtrack or say how delicious a steak is, it adds nothing to the painting or soundtrack or steak but increases our enjoyment of it.

 

[Czernobog]

I must admit that I have followed this thread with great amusement.

"If there was absolute proof of God, I still wouldn't follow Him". "If God DID exist, **** him - he'd end up in jail."

Which, my friends, is exactly the proof that God DOES exist. Even with confronted with immutable evidence, man is so consumed by his ego that he can't recognize a superior power, can't admit his failings, and clings to the ridiculous notion that he has a say in eternity. He, somehow, believes that he is the ultimate arbiter of truth and justice, despite his penchant for cheating, lying, and equivocation.

I want to thank each and every one of you atheists for, once again, providing me proof that God DOES exist. You can be sure I will be "eternally grateful".

I, at no point, suggested that I am the "ultimate arbiter" of truth and Justice. If the Christian God were proven, without question, to exist, then The Bible would be the "ultimate arbiter" of truth and Justice. After all, the rules for morality are found ther3e. So, when the Christian God acts in direct contradiction to the very rules he set up, he convicts himself in accordance to his own commandments.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So, I've a hypothetical for you guys that I am curious about. I maintain that my atheism is a premise, not a conclusion. When I say, "God does not exist", I am presenting a falsifiable premise that is only awaiting objective, verifiable evidence.

Now, with that in mind, let us say that evidence is discovered tomorrow. Now only do we have absolute proof of the existence of God, but we even have absolute evidence that the Christian version of God exists. Could you just "fall in line"? Could you just "become" a Christian.

See, I don't think I could. If we suddenly had the objective evidence necessary to prove that the Christian God exists, that would mean that we, also, have to accept that the Bible is not just a book of stories, and is, in fact, an accurate record of the nature of that God. And that record indicates that he drown the entire race, as far as man understood it to be at that time. This God demanded his favourites to commit genocide...twice. This God chose one person, and intentionally made his life miserable, just for sport (a wager with Lucifer). In short, the Bible portrays a God that is a sociopath.

I don't know that, even with irrefutable evidence that the Christian God exists, that I could become a follower of that God.

I have always said that, given evidence,. I would change my position from atheism to one of theism. However, if I learned that the Christian God was the "God of Creation", I don't think that theism would be a respectful one. I think my position would have to be, "Okay. God exists...and he's a dick," and would accept whatever consequences taking that position would engender.

So, what about you guys? If we suddenly had evidence that Christians had it right all along, could you just become "Good Little Christians"?

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

and that if you didn't, it's eternal hellfire.


you sir, are a complete idiot.

Maybe. But I will not bend a knee to a genocidal despot.

you are misusing the word genocide.


set your arm on fire

now imagine what that's going to feel like, all over, forever.

 

[Czernobog]

Is that how they teach you to proselytize at your church? If so, you need a new church

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

.

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

the two are not the same ... seriously, the teachings of - is found in that book.

Idc

this is about, if you got proof that the Christ god is real, would you worship him.


clearly only a complete dunce wouldn't fall in line

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

then you will burn in hell for all eternity.

get it?

This is a hypothetical that god does exist, not if, the bible is true, not edited.

worship or hell


the choice is incredibly simple

So, your moral compass directs you to be a sycophant, in the hopes that God would be stupid enough to mistake it for sincerity, in the hopes of avoiding Hell. Yeah...I'd prefer to just be honest, and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Is that how they teach you to proselytize at your church? If so, you need a new church

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

.

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

the two are not the same ... seriously, the teachings of - is found in that book.

Idc

this is about, if you got proof that the Christ god is real, would you worship him.


clearly only a complete dunce wouldn't fall in line

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

Again, you expose the thin veneer of your knowledge.

God doesn't require that we worship him ... he requires only thanksgiving. It ain't about Him - it's about a recognition and gratitude for the eternal life.

In Psalm 50, God corrected his people who thought he somehow needed the sacrifices he commanded:

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you;
your burnt offerings are continually before me.
I will not accept a bull from your house
or goats from your folds.
For every beast of the forest is mine,
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know all the birds of the hills,
and all that moves in the field is mine.
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats? (8-13)

God didn’t need their sacrifices. He doesn’t need our worship either. God has no needs. He is infinitely perfect and complete. For all eternity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship. God never gets hungry, lonely or unhappy. He is the fountain of all joy and gladness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and perform your vows to the Most High,
and call upon me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (14-15)

God says here is how to please me: offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, then perform your promises to thank me when I deliver you from trouble, then call on me the next time you’re in trouble. I’ll rescue you again and you will glorify me again by thanking me.

Our worship glorifies God. But he doesn’t need it. So why does God tell us to do these things? For our benefit!

He doesn’t need our obedience or our money. He is completely self-sufficient. When we thank and praise him it blesses us! It increases our joy and delight in him.

God has designed us to enjoy beauty and excellence and to express that enjoyment. We enjoy the of glory of nature, amazing athletic feats, delicious food, great movies, and a thousand other blessings, and we increase our enjoyment when we express it. When we see a sunset or the Grand Canyon we can’t help but say, “Wow that is so beautiful.” When we watch an athlete make a fantastic play we have to cheer. And when we express our admiration of a Van Gogh or Hanz Zimmer soundtrack or say how delicious a steak is, it adds nothing to the painting or soundtrack or steak but increases our enjoyment of it.

I did not claim that god demands worship, I said I would not worship him . But thanks for the bronze age voodoo chant.

1 Chronicles 16:29: "...Worship the LORD..."

John 4:23: "...the true worshipers will worship the Father..."

The next time you feel like taking a jab at someone else's knowledge, you might want to first take stock of your own.

 

[Czernobog]

So, I've a hypothetical for you guys that I am curious about. I maintain that my atheism is a premise, not a conclusion. When I say, "God does not exist", I am presenting a falsifiable premise that is only awaiting objective, verifiable evidence.

Now, with that in mind, let us say that evidence is discovered tomorrow. Now only do we have absolute proof of the existence of God, but we even have absolute evidence that the Christian version of God exists. Could you just "fall in line"? Could you just "become" a Christian.

See, I don't think I could. If we suddenly had the objective evidence necessary to prove that the Christian God exists, that would mean that we, also, have to accept that the Bible is not just a book of stories, and is, in fact, an accurate record of the nature of that God. And that record indicates that he drown the entire race, as far as man understood it to be at that time. This God demanded his favourites to commit genocide...twice. This God chose one person, and intentionally made his life miserable, just for sport (a wager with Lucifer). In short, the Bible portrays a God that is a sociopath.

I don't know that, even with irrefutable evidence that the Christian God exists, that I could become a follower of that God.

I have always said that, given evidence,. I would change my position from atheism to one of theism. However, if I learned that the Christian God was the "God of Creation", I don't think that theism would be a respectful one. I think my position would have to be, "Okay. God exists...and he's a dick," and would accept whatever consequences taking that position would engender.

So, what about you guys? If we suddenly had evidence that Christians had it right all along, could you just become "Good Little Christians"?

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

and that if you didn't, it's eternal hellfire.


you sir, are a complete idiot.

Maybe. But I will not bend a knee to a genocidal despot.

you are misusing the word genocide.


set your arm on fire

now imagine what that's going to feel like, all over, forever.

No, I'm not. 1 Sam 15:3 - "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." Don't know about where you come from, but where I come from that is the very definition of genocide.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

.

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

the two are not the same ... seriously, the teachings of - is found in that book.

Idc

this is about, if you got proof that the Christ god is real, would you worship him.


clearly only a complete dunce wouldn't fall in line

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

then you will burn in hell for all eternity.

get it?

This is a hypothetical that god does exist, not if, the bible is true, not edited.

worship or hell


the choice is incredibly simple

So, your moral compass directs you to be a sycophant, in the hopes that God would be stupid enough to mistake it for sincerity, in the hopes of avoiding Hell. Yeah...I'd prefer to just be honest, and let the chips fall where they may.

there are no chips

you either follow and accept jesus as your savior, and get into heaven
or
burn forever


and really, god hasn't taken a direct roll in anything in over 2000 years.

 

[Spare_change]

I must admit that I have followed this thread with great amusement.

"If there was absolute proof of God, I still wouldn't follow Him". "If God DID exist, **** him - he'd end up in jail."

Which, my friends, is exactly the proof that God DOES exist. Even with confronted with immutable evidence, man is so consumed by his ego that he can't recognize a superior power, can't admit his failings, and clings to the ridiculous notion that he has a say in eternity. He, somehow, believes that he is the ultimate arbiter of truth and justice, despite his penchant for cheating, lying, and equivocation.

I want to thank each and every one of you atheists for, once again, providing me proof that God DOES exist. You can be sure I will be "eternally grateful".

I, at no point, suggested that I am the "ultimate arbiter" of truth and Justice. If the Christian God were proven, without question, to exist, then The Bible would be the "ultimate arbiter" of truth and Justice. After all, the rules for morality are found ther3e. So, when the Christian God acts in direct contradiction to the very rules he set up, he convicts himself in accordance to his own commandments.

You claim that you don't suggest that YOU are the "ultimate arbiter" of truth and Justice. Yet, you dispute, and reject, any higher being than the human. So, in fact, you have set yourself up as the "ultimate arbiter" - or rather, one of a plethora of "ultimate arbiters".

I think you would agree that IF God didn't exist, we would have to make him up, that He serves a valued purpose in our existence. Without God, man would be the ultimate authority, and given man's penchant for equivocation and dishonesty (to benefit himself). Without God, we would be without accountability and structure.

I am very interested, however, in this logical dichotomy you have somehow created that God acts in direct contradiction to the very rules he set up. Please explain.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, I've a hypothetical for you guys that I am curious about. I maintain that my atheism is a premise, not a conclusion. When I say, "God does not exist", I am presenting a falsifiable premise that is only awaiting objective, verifiable evidence.

Now, with that in mind, let us say that evidence is discovered tomorrow. Now only do we have absolute proof of the existence of God, but we even have absolute evidence that the Christian version of God exists. Could you just "fall in line"? Could you just "become" a Christian.

See, I don't think I could. If we suddenly had the objective evidence necessary to prove that the Christian God exists, that would mean that we, also, have to accept that the Bible is not just a book of stories, and is, in fact, an accurate record of the nature of that God. And that record indicates that he drown the entire race, as far as man understood it to be at that time. This God demanded his favourites to commit genocide...twice. This God chose one person, and intentionally made his life miserable, just for sport (a wager with Lucifer). In short, the Bible portrays a God that is a sociopath.

I don't know that, even with irrefutable evidence that the Christian God exists, that I could become a follower of that God.

I have always said that, given evidence,. I would change my position from atheism to one of theism. However, if I learned that the Christian God was the "God of Creation", I don't think that theism would be a respectful one. I think my position would have to be, "Okay. God exists...and he's a dick," and would accept whatever consequences taking that position would engender.

So, what about you guys? If we suddenly had evidence that Christians had it right all along, could you just become "Good Little Christians"?

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

and that if you didn't, it's eternal hellfire.


you sir, are a complete idiot.

Maybe. But I will not bend a knee to a genocidal despot.

you are misusing the word genocide.


set your arm on fire

now imagine what that's going to feel like, all over, forever.

Then, imagine a mystical sky wizard is real, and a bronze age fairy tale is true. While you're at it, imagine 400 year old men, and healing touch, and zombie kings. Weeeeeee!

 

[Two Thumbs]

So, I've a hypothetical for you guys that I am curious about. I maintain that my atheism is a premise, not a conclusion. When I say, "God does not exist", I am presenting a falsifiable premise that is only awaiting objective, verifiable evidence.

Now, with that in mind, let us say that evidence is discovered tomorrow. Now only do we have absolute proof of the existence of God, but we even have absolute evidence that the Christian version of God exists. Could you just "fall in line"? Could you just "become" a Christian.

See, I don't think I could. If we suddenly had the objective evidence necessary to prove that the Christian God exists, that would mean that we, also, have to accept that the Bible is not just a book of stories, and is, in fact, an accurate record of the nature of that God. And that record indicates that he drown the entire race, as far as man understood it to be at that time. This God demanded his favourites to commit genocide...twice. This God chose one person, and intentionally made his life miserable, just for sport (a wager with Lucifer). In short, the Bible portrays a God that is a sociopath.

I don't know that, even with irrefutable evidence that the Christian God exists, that I could become a follower of that God.

I have always said that, given evidence,. I would change my position from atheism to one of theism. However, if I learned that the Christian God was the "God of Creation", I don't think that theism would be a respectful one. I think my position would have to be, "Okay. God exists...and he's a dick," and would accept whatever consequences taking that position would engender.

So, what about you guys? If we suddenly had evidence that Christians had it right all along, could you just become "Good Little Christians"?

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

and that if you didn't, it's eternal hellfire.


you sir, are a complete idiot.

Maybe. But I will not bend a knee to a genocidal despot.

you are misusing the word genocide.


set your arm on fire

now imagine what that's going to feel like, all over, forever.

No, I'm not. 1 Sam 15:3 - "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." Don't know about where you come from, but where I come from that is the very definition of genocide.

did they actually succeed?
and why did they go?

half quotes are no quotes at all, so if you are going to c-p the bible, bring the context as well.

 

[Spare_change]

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

.

I don't go to church, WAY to many hypocrites draped in the cloth

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

the two are not the same ... seriously, the teachings of - is found in that book.

Idc

this is about, if you got proof that the Christ god is real, would you worship him.


clearly only a complete dunce wouldn't fall in line

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

Again, you expose the thin veneer of your knowledge.

God doesn't require that we worship him ... he requires only thanksgiving. It ain't about Him - it's about a recognition and gratitude for the eternal life.

In Psalm 50, God corrected his people who thought he somehow needed the sacrifices he commanded:

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you;
your burnt offerings are continually before me.
I will not accept a bull from your house
or goats from your folds.
For every beast of the forest is mine,
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know all the birds of the hills,
and all that moves in the field is mine.
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats? (8-13)

God didn’t need their sacrifices. He doesn’t need our worship either. God has no needs. He is infinitely perfect and complete. For all eternity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship. God never gets hungry, lonely or unhappy. He is the fountain of all joy and gladness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and perform your vows to the Most High,
and call upon me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (14-15)

God says here is how to please me: offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, then perform your promises to thank me when I deliver you from trouble, then call on me the next time you’re in trouble. I’ll rescue you again and you will glorify me again by thanking me.

Our worship glorifies God. But he doesn’t need it. So why does God tell us to do these things? For our benefit!

He doesn’t need our obedience or our money. He is completely self-sufficient. When we thank and praise him it blesses us! It increases our joy and delight in him.

God has designed us to enjoy beauty and excellence and to express that enjoyment. We enjoy the of glory of nature, amazing athletic feats, delicious food, great movies, and a thousand other blessings, and we increase our enjoyment when we express it. When we see a sunset or the Grand Canyon we can’t help but say, “Wow that is so beautiful.” When we watch an athlete make a fantastic play we have to cheer. And when we express our admiration of a Van Gogh or Hanz Zimmer soundtrack or say how delicious a steak is, it adds nothing to the painting or soundtrack or steak but increases our enjoyment of it.

I did not claim that god demands worship, I said I would not worship him . But thanks for the bronze age voodoo chant.

1 Chronicles 16:29: "...Worship the LORD..."

John 4:23: "...the true worshipers will worship the Father..."

The next time you feel like taking a jab at someone else's knowledge, you might want to first take stock of your own.

Ahhh --- the veneer cracks, as we knew it would. Those are the words of men ... not God. Nice try, rookie ...

 

[Two Thumbs]

So, I've a hypothetical for you guys that I am curious about. I maintain that my atheism is a premise, not a conclusion. When I say, "God does not exist", I am presenting a falsifiable premise that is only awaiting objective, verifiable evidence.

Now, with that in mind, let us say that evidence is discovered tomorrow. Now only do we have absolute proof of the existence of God, but we even have absolute evidence that the Christian version of God exists. Could you just "fall in line"? Could you just "become" a Christian.

See, I don't think I could. If we suddenly had the objective evidence necessary to prove that the Christian God exists, that would mean that we, also, have to accept that the Bible is not just a book of stories, and is, in fact, an accurate record of the nature of that God. And that record indicates that he drown the entire race, as far as man understood it to be at that time. This God demanded his favourites to commit genocide...twice. This God chose one person, and intentionally made his life miserable, just for sport (a wager with Lucifer). In short, the Bible portrays a God that is a sociopath.

I don't know that, even with irrefutable evidence that the Christian God exists, that I could become a follower of that God.

I have always said that, given evidence,. I would change my position from atheism to one of theism. However, if I learned that the Christian God was the "God of Creation", I don't think that theism would be a respectful one. I think my position would have to be, "Okay. God exists...and he's a dick," and would accept whatever consequences taking that position would engender.

So, what about you guys? If we suddenly had evidence that Christians had it right all along, could you just become "Good Little Christians"?

So if you had absolute proof, that if you followed the teachings of jesus, got baptized and accepted him as your savior, that you would reside in heaven, for all eternity after death.

and that if you didn't, it's eternal hellfire.


you sir, are a complete idiot.

Maybe. But I will not bend a knee to a genocidal despot.

you are misusing the word genocide.


set your arm on fire

now imagine what that's going to feel like, all over, forever.

Then, imagine a mystical sky wizard is real, and a bronze age fairy tale is true. While you're at it, imagine 400 year old men, and healing touch, and zombie kings. Weeeeeee!

I will repeat, once more.

The theme of the op is that the Christian god and jesus are real


even though he keeps quoting the old testament, in violation of his own op.

 

[Czernobog]

then you will burn in hell for all eternity.

get it?

This is a hypothetical that god does exist, not if, the bible is true, not edited.

worship or hell


the choice is incredibly simple

No, it's a question of if god and jesus EXIST, not whether the manmade instruction manual is accurate. And if Jesus said it was, I would tell him that he is either lying or he is evil, and he could go **** himself.

so you are choosing hell

ok, have fun with that.

Not at all. If Jesus laid out those conditions, I would believe he was lying. I simply would not believe that "the only true god" would be such an evil idiot.

the op made it clear that the bible is considered true.

you keep changing things so you can avoid hell.

like it or not, you have chosen eternal damnation.

That's the OPs opinion, not mine. I dont think the accuracy of the Bible follows from the truth of the existence of god and Jesus. Sorry. And if it IS true, then it is the evil, stupid Jesus who chose damnation for me. Get it straight.

It's not my opinion. It was one of the parameters I set up for the thought experience:

1 - God exists.
2 - The Christian version of God is accurate.
3 - The Bible is determined to be the accurate record of God's actions.

Given those three parameters, would you become a Christian, and bend a knee to God. Keep in mind that acknowledging God exists is not the same as bending the knee.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

.
the two are not the same ... seriously, the teachings of - is found in that book.

Idc

this is about, if you got proof that the Christ god is real, would you worship him.


clearly only a complete dunce wouldn't fall in line

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

Again, you expose the thin veneer of your knowledge.

God doesn't require that we worship him ... he requires only thanksgiving. It ain't about Him - it's about a recognition and gratitude for the eternal life.

In Psalm 50, God corrected his people who thought he somehow needed the sacrifices he commanded:

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you;
your burnt offerings are continually before me.
I will not accept a bull from your house
or goats from your folds.
For every beast of the forest is mine,
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know all the birds of the hills,
and all that moves in the field is mine.
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats? (8-13)

God didn’t need their sacrifices. He doesn’t need our worship either. God has no needs. He is infinitely perfect and complete. For all eternity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship. God never gets hungry, lonely or unhappy. He is the fountain of all joy and gladness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and perform your vows to the Most High,
and call upon me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (14-15)

God says here is how to please me: offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, then perform your promises to thank me when I deliver you from trouble, then call on me the next time you’re in trouble. I’ll rescue you again and you will glorify me again by thanking me.

Our worship glorifies God. But he doesn’t need it. So why does God tell us to do these things? For our benefit!

He doesn’t need our obedience or our money. He is completely self-sufficient. When we thank and praise him it blesses us! It increases our joy and delight in him.

God has designed us to enjoy beauty and excellence and to express that enjoyment. We enjoy the of glory of nature, amazing athletic feats, delicious food, great movies, and a thousand other blessings, and we increase our enjoyment when we express it. When we see a sunset or the Grand Canyon we can’t help but say, “Wow that is so beautiful.” When we watch an athlete make a fantastic play we have to cheer. And when we express our admiration of a Van Gogh or Hanz Zimmer soundtrack or say how delicious a steak is, it adds nothing to the painting or soundtrack or steak but increases our enjoyment of it.

I did not claim that god demands worship, I said I would not worship him . But thanks for the bronze age voodoo chant.

1 Chronicles 16:29: "...Worship the LORD..."

John 4:23: "...the true worshipers will worship the Father..."

The next time you feel like taking a jab at someone else's knowledge, you might want to first take stock of your own.

Ahhh --- the veneer cracks, as we knew it would. Those are the words of men ... not God. Nice try, rookie ...

.
the two are not the same ... seriously, the teachings of - is found in that book.

Idc

this is about, if you got proof that the Christ god is real, would you worship him.


clearly only a complete dunce wouldn't fall in line

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

Again, you expose the thin veneer of your knowledge.

God doesn't require that we worship him ... he requires only thanksgiving. It ain't about Him - it's about a recognition and gratitude for the eternal life.

In Psalm 50, God corrected his people who thought he somehow needed the sacrifices he commanded:

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you;
your burnt offerings are continually before me.
I will not accept a bull from your house
or goats from your folds.
For every beast of the forest is mine,
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know all the birds of the hills,
and all that moves in the field is mine.
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats? (8-13)

God didn’t need their sacrifices. He doesn’t need our worship either. God has no needs. He is infinitely perfect and complete. For all eternity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship. God never gets hungry, lonely or unhappy. He is the fountain of all joy and gladness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and perform your vows to the Most High,
and call upon me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (14-15)

God says here is how to please me: offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, then perform your promises to thank me when I deliver you from trouble, then call on me the next time you’re in trouble. I’ll rescue you again and you will glorify me again by thanking me.

Our worship glorifies God. But he doesn’t need it. So why does God tell us to do these things? For our benefit!

He doesn’t need our obedience or our money. He is completely self-sufficient. When we thank and praise him it blesses us! It increases our joy and delight in him.

God has designed us to enjoy beauty and excellence and to express that enjoyment. We enjoy the of glory of nature, amazing athletic feats, delicious food, great movies, and a thousand other blessings, and we increase our enjoyment when we express it. When we see a sunset or the Grand Canyon we can’t help but say, “Wow that is so beautiful.” When we watch an athlete make a fantastic play we have to cheer. And when we express our admiration of a Van Gogh or Hanz Zimmer soundtrack or say how delicious a steak is, it adds nothing to the painting or soundtrack or steak but increases our enjoyment of it.

I did not claim that god demands worship, I said I would not worship him . But thanks for the bronze age voodoo chant.

1 Chronicles 16:29: "...Worship the LORD..."

John 4:23: "...the true worshipers will worship the Father..."

The next time you feel like taking a jab at someone else's knowledge, you might want to first take stock of your own.

Ahhh --- the veneer cracks, as we knew it would. Those are the words of men ... not God. Nice try, rookie ...

Of course they are, as is every single word in the Bible. Duh. Is water wet, too?

But your words....yessir...those are the words of God, right? Oh man...*cuckoo*

 

[Two Thumbs]

No, it's a question of if god and jesus EXIST, not whether the manmade instruction manual is accurate. And if Jesus said it was, I would tell him that he is either lying or he is evil, and he could go **** himself.

so you are choosing hell

ok, have fun with that.

Not at all. If Jesus laid out those conditions, I would believe he was lying. I simply would not believe that "the only true god" would be such an evil idiot.

the op made it clear that the bible is considered true.

you keep changing things so you can avoid hell.

like it or not, you have chosen eternal damnation.

That's the OPs opinion, not mine. I dont think the accuracy of the Bible follows from the truth of the existence of god and Jesus. Sorry. And if it IS true, then it is the evil, stupid Jesus who chose damnation for me. Get it straight.

It's not my opinion. It was one of the parameters I set up for the thought experience:

1 - God exists.
2 - The Christian version of God is accurate.
3 - The Bible is determined to be the accurate record of God's actions.

Given those three parameters, would you become a Christian, and bend a knee to God. Keep in mind that acknowledging God exists is not the same as bending the knee.

then stop quoting the old testement

 

[Spare_change]

Idc

this is about, if you got proof that the Christ god is real, would you worship him.


clearly only a complete dunce wouldn't fall in line

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

Again, you expose the thin veneer of your knowledge.

God doesn't require that we worship him ... he requires only thanksgiving. It ain't about Him - it's about a recognition and gratitude for the eternal life.

In Psalm 50, God corrected his people who thought he somehow needed the sacrifices he commanded:

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you;
your burnt offerings are continually before me.
I will not accept a bull from your house
or goats from your folds.
For every beast of the forest is mine,
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know all the birds of the hills,
and all that moves in the field is mine.
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats? (8-13)

God didn’t need their sacrifices. He doesn’t need our worship either. God has no needs. He is infinitely perfect and complete. For all eternity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship. God never gets hungry, lonely or unhappy. He is the fountain of all joy and gladness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and perform your vows to the Most High,
and call upon me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (14-15)

God says here is how to please me: offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, then perform your promises to thank me when I deliver you from trouble, then call on me the next time you’re in trouble. I’ll rescue you again and you will glorify me again by thanking me.

Our worship glorifies God. But he doesn’t need it. So why does God tell us to do these things? For our benefit!

He doesn’t need our obedience or our money. He is completely self-sufficient. When we thank and praise him it blesses us! It increases our joy and delight in him.

God has designed us to enjoy beauty and excellence and to express that enjoyment. We enjoy the of glory of nature, amazing athletic feats, delicious food, great movies, and a thousand other blessings, and we increase our enjoyment when we express it. When we see a sunset or the Grand Canyon we can’t help but say, “Wow that is so beautiful.” When we watch an athlete make a fantastic play we have to cheer. And when we express our admiration of a Van Gogh or Hanz Zimmer soundtrack or say how delicious a steak is, it adds nothing to the painting or soundtrack or steak but increases our enjoyment of it.

I did not claim that god demands worship, I said I would not worship him . But thanks for the bronze age voodoo chant.

1 Chronicles 16:29: "...Worship the LORD..."

John 4:23: "...the true worshipers will worship the Father..."

The next time you feel like taking a jab at someone else's knowledge, you might want to first take stock of your own.

Ahhh --- the veneer cracks, as we knew it would. Those are the words of men ... not God. Nice try, rookie ...

Idc

this is about, if you got proof that the Christ god is real, would you worship him.


clearly only a complete dunce wouldn't fall in line

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

Again, you expose the thin veneer of your knowledge.

God doesn't require that we worship him ... he requires only thanksgiving. It ain't about Him - it's about a recognition and gratitude for the eternal life.

In Psalm 50, God corrected his people who thought he somehow needed the sacrifices he commanded:

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you;
your burnt offerings are continually before me.
I will not accept a bull from your house
or goats from your folds.
For every beast of the forest is mine,
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know all the birds of the hills,
and all that moves in the field is mine.
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats? (8-13)

God didn’t need their sacrifices. He doesn’t need our worship either. God has no needs. He is infinitely perfect and complete. For all eternity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship. God never gets hungry, lonely or unhappy. He is the fountain of all joy and gladness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and perform your vows to the Most High,
and call upon me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (14-15)

God says here is how to please me: offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, then perform your promises to thank me when I deliver you from trouble, then call on me the next time you’re in trouble. I’ll rescue you again and you will glorify me again by thanking me.

Our worship glorifies God. But he doesn’t need it. So why does God tell us to do these things? For our benefit!

He doesn’t need our obedience or our money. He is completely self-sufficient. When we thank and praise him it blesses us! It increases our joy and delight in him.

God has designed us to enjoy beauty and excellence and to express that enjoyment. We enjoy the of glory of nature, amazing athletic feats, delicious food, great movies, and a thousand other blessings, and we increase our enjoyment when we express it. When we see a sunset or the Grand Canyon we can’t help but say, “Wow that is so beautiful.” When we watch an athlete make a fantastic play we have to cheer. And when we express our admiration of a Van Gogh or Hanz Zimmer soundtrack or say how delicious a steak is, it adds nothing to the painting or soundtrack or steak but increases our enjoyment of it.

I did not claim that god demands worship, I said I would not worship him . But thanks for the bronze age voodoo chant.

1 Chronicles 16:29: "...Worship the LORD..."

John 4:23: "...the true worshipers will worship the Father..."

The next time you feel like taking a jab at someone else's knowledge, you might want to first take stock of your own.

Ahhh --- the veneer cracks, as we knew it would. Those are the words of men ... not God. Nice try, rookie ...

Of course they are, as is every single word in the Bible. Duh. Is water wet, too?

But your words....yessir...those are the words of God, right? Oh man...*cuckoo*

Man, you make absolutely zero sense .... want to try again??? I'll wait ...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

Again, you expose the thin veneer of your knowledge.

God doesn't require that we worship him ... he requires only thanksgiving. It ain't about Him - it's about a recognition and gratitude for the eternal life.

In Psalm 50, God corrected his people who thought he somehow needed the sacrifices he commanded:

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you;
your burnt offerings are continually before me.
I will not accept a bull from your house
or goats from your folds.
For every beast of the forest is mine,
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know all the birds of the hills,
and all that moves in the field is mine.
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats? (8-13)

God didn’t need their sacrifices. He doesn’t need our worship either. God has no needs. He is infinitely perfect and complete. For all eternity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship. God never gets hungry, lonely or unhappy. He is the fountain of all joy and gladness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and perform your vows to the Most High,
and call upon me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (14-15)

God says here is how to please me: offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, then perform your promises to thank me when I deliver you from trouble, then call on me the next time you’re in trouble. I’ll rescue you again and you will glorify me again by thanking me.

Our worship glorifies God. But he doesn’t need it. So why does God tell us to do these things? For our benefit!

He doesn’t need our obedience or our money. He is completely self-sufficient. When we thank and praise him it blesses us! It increases our joy and delight in him.

God has designed us to enjoy beauty and excellence and to express that enjoyment. We enjoy the of glory of nature, amazing athletic feats, delicious food, great movies, and a thousand other blessings, and we increase our enjoyment when we express it. When we see a sunset or the Grand Canyon we can’t help but say, “Wow that is so beautiful.” When we watch an athlete make a fantastic play we have to cheer. And when we express our admiration of a Van Gogh or Hanz Zimmer soundtrack or say how delicious a steak is, it adds nothing to the painting or soundtrack or steak but increases our enjoyment of it.

I did not claim that god demands worship, I said I would not worship him . But thanks for the bronze age voodoo chant.

1 Chronicles 16:29: "...Worship the LORD..."

John 4:23: "...the true worshipers will worship the Father..."

The next time you feel like taking a jab at someone else's knowledge, you might want to first take stock of your own.

Ahhh --- the veneer cracks, as we knew it would. Those are the words of men ... not God. Nice try, rookie ...

I would not worship him. Why should I? And why would a god be so insecure as to demand he be worshipped? The entire concept is absurd.

Again, you expose the thin veneer of your knowledge.

God doesn't require that we worship him ... he requires only thanksgiving. It ain't about Him - it's about a recognition and gratitude for the eternal life.

In Psalm 50, God corrected his people who thought he somehow needed the sacrifices he commanded:

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you;
your burnt offerings are continually before me.
I will not accept a bull from your house
or goats from your folds.
For every beast of the forest is mine,
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know all the birds of the hills,
and all that moves in the field is mine.
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats? (8-13)

God didn’t need their sacrifices. He doesn’t need our worship either. God has no needs. He is infinitely perfect and complete. For all eternity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have enjoyed perfect love and fellowship. God never gets hungry, lonely or unhappy. He is the fountain of all joy and gladness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving,
and perform your vows to the Most High,
and call upon me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (14-15)

God says here is how to please me: offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, then perform your promises to thank me when I deliver you from trouble, then call on me the next time you’re in trouble. I’ll rescue you again and you will glorify me again by thanking me.

Our worship glorifies God. But he doesn’t need it. So why does God tell us to do these things? For our benefit!

He doesn’t need our obedience or our money. He is completely self-sufficient. When we thank and praise him it blesses us! It increases our joy and delight in him.

God has designed us to enjoy beauty and excellence and to express that enjoyment. We enjoy the of glory of nature, amazing athletic feats, delicious food, great movies, and a thousand other blessings, and we increase our enjoyment when we express it. When we see a sunset or the Grand Canyon we can’t help but say, “Wow that is so beautiful.” When we watch an athlete make a fantastic play we have to cheer. And when we express our admiration of a Van Gogh or Hanz Zimmer soundtrack or say how delicious a steak is, it adds nothing to the painting or soundtrack or steak but increases our enjoyment of it.

I did not claim that god demands worship, I said I would not worship him . But thanks for the bronze age voodoo chant.

1 Chronicles 16:29: "...Worship the LORD..."

John 4:23: "...the true worshipers will worship the Father..."

The next time you feel like taking a jab at someone else's knowledge, you might want to first take stock of your own.

Ahhh --- the veneer cracks, as we knew it would. Those are the words of men ... not God. Nice try, rookie ...

Of course they are, as is every single word in the Bible. Duh. Is water wet, too?

But your words....yessir...those are the words of God, right? Oh man...*cuckoo*

Man, you make absolutely zero sense .... want to try again??? I'll wait ...

You are the one who makes o sense... you quote Bible verses as the authoritative word of God... then you call the verses I quote (which purport to be direct quote from Jesus, as you clearly did not know) as the word of man... then you claim your own opinion as the authoritative thought of God? Okay, Shaman. Have another flesh wafer, i'm going to slowly back away, now...