hypocracy of Islam

[Trigg]

After reading about the absolute horror of the Koran "maybe" being flushed down a toilet I was just forced to bring to their attention a few things they did.

They don't seem to have a problem desecrating other peoples religions..can any one say hypocrite??????

1. Dececration of Josuas tomb

2. Destruction of the buddish statues in Afghanistan

this is a lovely article outlining their hypocrisy

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44303

 

[Arabian]

what do u think an\bou desroying a whole country and destroy
the futures,, dreams and the childhood in the eyes of children
every thing,,
what do u think is more violant,,,
destroying status,, that have no hearts no feels nothing,, just a shape,,
or destroying ur home or human from flesh and blood,,,

 

[Trigg]

what do u think an\bou desroying a whole country and destroy
the futures,, dreams and the childhood in the eyes of children
every thing,,
what do u think is more violant,,,
destroying status,, that have no hearts no feels nothing,, just a shape,,
or destroying ur home or human from flesh and blood,,,

I think you dont understand the topic of this thread. this thread was started to point out the fact that on numerous occasions the islamic people have distroyed others religious icons and material yet you condone that. How can you fain outrage over the desecretion of your materials and do the same to others.

The 2 items that I pulled out of the story such as Josephs tomb's distructions and the distruction of the Buddihst Staues happend "BEFORE" we went into Iraq. Where is your outrage at Sadam Husien?? Didnt he kill hundreds of thousands yet the islamic community is upset that a "ENGLISH" not US paper printed pictures of him in his underware.

I dont understand a group of people that are willing to kill and distroy in the name of thier religion and yet expect the rest of the world to stand by and let them do it. You expect to be treated with reverence and compassion yet you in no way have shown to be willing to do the same.

I am not talking about you inparticular but as a group if you dont condemn what they do than you condone it. In case you and the rest of the Arab world hasn't noticed the people of the US dont always agree with what our gov't does and when we dont we protest and dispay or diespleasur "WITHOUT KILLING OTHER PEOPLE OR DISTROYING OTHERS THINGS" Think about it and try to be the "tolerant" religion you say you are.......

 

[Annie]

what do u think an\bou desroying a whole country and destroy
the futures,, dreams and the childhood in the eyes of children
every thing,,
what do u think is more violant,,,
destroying status,, that have no hearts no feels nothing,, just a shape,,
or destroying ur home or human from flesh and blood,,,

Yet you are offended at the FALSE ACCUSATION that a book was mishandled, no problem that 17 or more died and scores injured.

 

[Gem]

Arabian,

As others here have stated well...you are comparing two different topics.


The Muslims who killed 17 people in Afganistan recently claimed that they were not angry about war, children being killed, lives being destroyed.

They claimed that their outrage and violence was justified because a news magazine had written a small article claiming that a Koran had been flushed down the toilet.

They killed 17 people people people someone completely unrelated to those people, thousands of miles away, had done something they didn't like.

THIS is what we are talking about....that Muslim extremists have been desecrating the sacred sites of other religions for years and those religions have not been sending people to kill Muslims....yet a small story leaks out and Muslim fanatics use it as an excuse to kill people and declare jihad.

And you come here and try to whitewash it by pointing in the opposite direction....

 

[Said1]

what do u think an\bou desroying a whole country and destroy
the futures,, dreams and the childhood in the eyes of children
every thing,,
what do u think is more violant,,,
destroying status,, that have no hearts no feels nothing,, just a shape,,
or destroying ur home or human from flesh and blood,,,

Like revisiting your own cultural past/present isn't it?

 

[mrsx]

Arabian,

As others here have stated well...you are comparing two different topics.


The Muslims who killed 17 people in Afganistan recently claimed that they were not angry about war, children being killed, lives being destroyed.

They claimed that their outrage and violence was justified because a news magazine had written a small article claiming that a Koran had been flushed down the toilet.

They killed 17 people people people someone completely unrelated to those people, thousands of miles away, had done something they didn't like.

THIS is what we are talking about....that Muslim extremists have been desecrating the sacred sites of other religions for years and those religions have not been sending people to kill Muslims....yet a small story leaks out and Muslim fanatics use it as an excuse to kill people and declare jihad.

And you come here and try to whitewash it by pointing in the opposite direction....

It is an oversimplification to say that the riots were caused by the Newseek story. In fact both Gen. Meyers CJCS and the American ambassador to Afghanistan stated clearly that the story was *not* the cause. The cause is much more likely to be the widespread instances of torture and degradation of Muslims in the hands of the U.S. government. Several hundred detainees from Guantanamo, for example, have been released and gone back to their own countries where they have appeared on TV describing their mis-treatment. Unfortunately, the mis-treatment is all too real and has been acknowleged by the U.S. government. The same is true of the desecration of the Koran. The administration does not deny that such incidents occured; it says policies were put in place to stop it and that desecration no longer happens. Not quite the same thing.

I do not personally support the destruction of the Buddahs in Afghanistan; in fairness, we Christians have a history of iconoclasm of our own. I am very, very sceptical about allegations of desecration of Biblical sites because such an act would be blasphemous for any Muslim. As an example: the main mosque in Damascus, Syria, is so old that it was originally a Roman temple. It was then a Christian church dedicated to John the Baptist, whose tomb is its main feature. The building was converted into a mosque centuries ago. The tomb is still the main feature and has been revered by Muslims for centuries. When Christians captured the great mosque in Cordoba, Spain, they destroyed all the copies of the Koran. Muslims do not destroy the holy book of the Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him!

 

[Bonnie]

mrsx...

When Christians captured the great mosque in Cordoba, Spain, they destroyed all the copies of the Koran. Muslims do not destroy the holy book of the Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him!

THE BELEAGUERED CHRISTIANS OF
THE PALESTINIAN-CONTROLLED AREAS
David Raab

A Second-Class People / Regional Repression of Christians / Official PA Domination of Christians / PA Disrespect for Christian Holy Sites / The PA Takeover of the Church of the Nativity / The PA and Jerusalem Christians / Reduction of Christian Political Power / Harassment of Palestinian Christians by Palestinian Muslims / The Palestinian Christian Response



The Christian community in the areas administered by the Palestinian Authority (PA) is a small but symbolically important one. About 35,000 Christians live in the West Bank and 3,000 in Gaza,1 representing about 1.3 percent of Palestinians. In addition, 12,500 Christians reside in eastern Jerusalem.

This population is rapidly dwindling, however, and not solely as a result of the difficult military and economic situation of the past two years. Rather, there are numerous indications that the Christian population is beleaguered due to its Christianity. Taken in context of the condition of Christians in other Middle Eastern countries, this picture is especially credible and troubling.



A Second-Class People
Under Islam, Christians are considered dhimmi, a tolerated but second class who are afforded protection by Islam. Dhimmitude is integral to Islam; it is a "protection pact" that suspends "the [Muslim] conqueror's initial right to kill or enslave [Jews and Christians], provided they submitted themselves to pay tribute."2

However, the reality of Christianity under Islam has often been difficult. "Over the centuries, political Islam has not been too kind to the native Christian communities living under its rule. Anecdotes of tolerance aside, the systematic treatment of Christians...is abusive and discriminatory by any standard....Under Islam, the targeted dhimmi community and each individual in it are made to live in a state of perpetual humiliation in the eyes of the ruling community."3 As described by a Christian Lebanese president, Bashir Gemayil: "a Christian...is not a full citizen and cannot exercise political rights in any of the countries which were once conquered byIslam."4

Palestinian Christians have suffered as dhimmis for centuries. An English traveler in the Holy Land in 1816, for example, remarked that Christians were not permitted to ride on horseback without express permission from the Muslim Pasha.5

Other European travelers to the Holy Land mentioned the practice whereby "a dhimmi must not come face to face with a Muslim in the street but pass him to the left, the impure side," and described how Christians were humiliated and insulted in the streets of Jerusalem until the mid-1800s. The British consul in Jerusalem wrote that in the Holy Land, particularly in Jerusalem until 1839, Christians were pushed into the gutter by any Muslim who would swear: "turn to my left, thou dog." They were forbidden to ride on a mount in town or to wear bright clothes.6

In the early 1900s, sporadic attacks on Christians by bands of Muslims occurred in many Palestinian towns.7 During the Palestinian Arab revolt in the late 1930s, which involved very few Christians, if Christian villagers refused to supply the terrorist bands with weapons and provisions, their vines were uprooted and their women raped. The rebels forced the Christian population to observe the weekly day of rest on Friday instead of Sunday and to replace the tarboosh with the kaffiyeh for men, whereas women were forced to wear the veil. In 1936, Muslims marched through the Christian village of Bir Zayt near Ramallah chanting: "We are going to kill the Christians."8

In the early 1900s, with the Jewish return to the area, Palestinian Christians began to band with the Muslims to oppose Jewish immigration, at least in part as a way to deflect Muslim hostility away from themselves. As Sir John Chancellor, British High Commissioner in Palestine, put it in 1931: "Christian Arab leaders, moreover, have admitted to me that in establishing close relations with the [Palestinian] Moslems the Christians have not been uninfluenced by fears of the treatment they might suffer at the hands of the Moslem majority in certain eventualities."9

From 1953 until 1967, Jordan undertook to Islamize the Christian quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem by laws forbidding Christians to buy land and houses....It ordered the compulsory closure of schools on Muslim holidays and authorized mosques to be built near churches, thus preventing any possibility of enlargement.10



Regional Repression of Christians
The current Christian reality in many Middle Eastern countries is also difficult. In Egypt, "Muslim, but not Christian, schools receive state funding....It is nearly impossible to restore or build new churches....Christians are frequently ostracized or insulted in public, and laws prohibit Muslim conversions to Christianity....Islamic radicals have frequently launched physical attacks on [Christian] Copts."11

Saudi Arabia "is one of the most oppressive countries for Christians. There are no churches in the whole country. Foreign workers make up one-third of the population, many of whom are Christians. For their entire stay, which may be years, they are forbidden to display any Christian symbols or Bibles, or even meet together publicly to worship and pray. Some have watched their personal Bibles put through a shredder when they entered the country."12

An official Saudi cleric, Sheik Saad Al-Buraik, pronounced in a Riyadh government mosque, "People should know that...the battle that we are going through is...also with those who believe that Allah is a third in a Trinity, and those who said that Jesus is the son of Allah, and Allah is Jesus, the son of Mary."13

In Iran, "the printing of Christian literature is illegal, converts from Islam are liable to be killed, and most evangelical churches must function underground."14 Christians are not allowed to testify in an Islamic court when a Muslim is involved and they are discriminated against in employment. A 1992 UN report cites cases of imprisonment and torture of Muslims who converted to Christianity and of Armenian and Assyrian pastors, the dissolution of the Iranian Bible Society, the closure of Christian libraries, and the confiscation of all Christian books, including 20,000 copies of the New Testament in Farsi.15

In Israel, too, Muslim fundamentalists seek to assert dominance over Christian Arabs. "Attacks against and condemnation of Christians are also often heard in mosques, in sermons and in publications of the Muslim Movement."16 In Nazareth, a significant clash developed in recent years when Muslims sought to build a grand mosque next to the Basilica of the Annunciation, the dominant Christian landmark in the town.17



Official PA Domination of Christians
Islam is the official religion of the Palestinian Authority.18 In addition, fundamentalist Hamas and Islamic Jihad have promoted Islamic influence on Palestinian society.

Officially, the PA claims to treat Palestinian Christians equally and pointedly seeks to display this publicly. Christmas is an official holiday. Arafat has stated as his mission "the protection of the Christian and Muslim holy places,"19 and several Christians have held prominent PA positions.

Occasionally, however, contrary messages slip through. In a Friday sermon on October 13, 2000, broadcast live on official Palestinian Authority television from a Gaza mosque, Dr. Ahmad Abu Halabiya proclaimed: "Allah the almighty has called upon us not to ally with the Jews or the Christians, not to like them, not to become their partners, not to support them, and not to sign agreements with them."20

In addition, no PA law protects religious freedom.21 While asserting that all Palestinians' "liberty and freedom to worship and to practice their religious beliefs are protected," a PA Information Ministry statement also stresses that: "The Palestinian people are also governed by [Islamic] Shari'a law...with regard to issues pertaining to religious matters. According to Shari'a Law, applicable throughout the Muslim world, any Muslim who [converts] or declares becoming an unbeliever is committing a major sin punishable by capital punishment...the [Palestinian Authority] cannot take a different position on this matter."22

In attempting to assuage Christians, the statement goes on to say that capital punishment for conversion "has never happened, nor is it likely to happen" in the Palestinian territories, but that "norms and tradition will take care of such situations should they occur."

The PA's judicial system also does not ensure equal protection to Christians. For example, an Israeli government report noted the failure of the judicial system in Bethlehem to provide protection to Christian land-owners.

The Comtsieh family (a Christian family) has a plot of land with a building that serves as a business center in the city. Several years ago a Moslem family from Hebron took possession of the building and started to use it without permission.
The Comtsieh family filed a claim with the judicial system and after long and arduous court hearings, the court ruled in the claimant's favor.
However, the verdict was never enforced by the police and representatives of the family from Hebron later appeared with a new court verdict (signed by the same judge who ruled in the claimants' favor previously), canceling the previous verdict and ratifying the Hebron family's ownership of the property.23

more...

http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp490.htm

ASt. Anne's Church:
(Mat 1:18 NIV) His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

This church, one of the oldest and prettiest in Jerusalem, dates back to the Crusader times of 12th century. It is named after the mother of Mary and is built over the traditional home of Mary with her parents, Anne and Joachim. A 4th century tradition states that the family lived in a small cave near this end of the Temple compound. By the 5th century a chapel was built here to remember the story. The Persian invasion of Judah and Jerusalem in AD 614 which destroyed or damaged so many Christian sites also destroyed this site. Another chapel had been built which was probably in ruins by the time the Crusaders arrived. In AD 1009 a Muslim Caliph in Cairo, Hakim, had allowed the destruction of Christian Holy Land sites which also included the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. The Crusaders then built St. Anne's, a beautiful structure, which suffered some abuse after they were forced to leave Jerusalem by the great Muslim leader Saladin. Christians were able to restore it when the Ottoman Turks turned St. Anne's over to France in 1856. The Church is 112' x 66', and if you take the steps below into the grotto, you come into the crypt of the church partly cut out of rock and believed to be where Mary lived with her parents; therefore, the lower level has various representations of her and family. The Pools of Bethesda are adjacent to the church (see also Model: Bethesda).

http://bond.hollandchristian.org/hle/jer/res/Text/StAnneCh.htm


And let us not forget, the Church of The Holy Nativity which was taken over by Palestinian terrorists in 2002 fleeing from capture by Israelies. They drank the holy wine, destroyed statues, crucifixes, bibles, the alter, and other holy artifacs .

 

[no1tovote4]

And let us not forget, the Church of The Holy Nativity which was taken over by Palestinian terroristsin 2002 fleeing from capture by Isralies. They drank the holy wine, destroyed statues, crucifixes, bibles, the alter, and other holy artifacs .

They used the Bible pages as Toilet Paper.

 

[Bonnie]

They used the Bible pages as Toilet Paper.

Yes they did and you can well imagine where their waste went!!

 

[Said1]

And let us not forget, the Church of The Holy Nativity which was taken over by Palestinian terrorists in 2002 fleeing from capture by Israelies. They drank the holy wine, destroyed statues, crucifixes, bibles, the alter, and other holy artifacs .

And let us not forget the Hindus. What do you suppose Tamerlain's orders were with resepect to Hindu shrines, icons and temples? Did they have bubble wrap back then? Probably one of the worst incidents of masacre and desecration of religious culture (that I can think of). But were talking Christians here, right MRSX?

 

[no1tovote4]

And let us not forget the Hindus. What do you suppose Tamerlain's orders were with resepect to Hindu shrines, icons and temples? Did they have bubble wrap back then? Probably one of the worst incidents of masacre and desecration of religious culture (that I can think of). But were talking Christians here, right MRSX?

Many, many Buddhists live among the Hindus. They did not escape this.

 

[Bonnie]

And let us not forget the Hindus. What do you suppose Tamerlain's orders were with resepect to Hindu shrines, icons and temples? Did they have bubble wrap back then? Probably one of the worst incidents of masacre and desecration of religious culture (that I can think of). But were talking Christians here, right MRSX?

Absolutely Said!! We could also mention the destruction of Constantinople at the hands of the Ottoman Turks who sacked everything in their paths

 

[Annie]

I do not personally support the destruction of the Buddahs in Afghanistan; in fairness, we Christians have a history of iconoclasm of our own. I am very, very sceptical about allegations of desecration of Biblical sites because such an act would be blasphemous for any Muslim.

Right, just give the muslims what they are demanding and they will leave us alone. Of course, what Christians had to do with Buddhism or Islam is besides the point.

 

[Said1]

Many, many Buddhists live among the Hindus. They did not escape this.

You're right, sorry.

 

[Annie]

And let us not forget the Hindus. What do you suppose Tamerlain's orders were with resepect to Hindu shrines, icons and temples? Did they have bubble wrap back then? Probably one of the worst incidents of masacre and desecration of religious culture (that I can think of). But were talking Christians here, right MRSX?

For some reason, I cannot rep you. Would if I could!

 

[mrsx]

They used the Bible pages as Toilet Paper.

I remain sceptical about this allegation for the reasons I mentioned. Do you have a source I could check? It is also worth noting that much of the PLO is comprised of secular Marxists. The people who seized the church may not have been devout Muslims, but then I don't know.

It is often difficult to separate theology from politics. This is especially true when the local religion becomes a rallying point for people struggling against a foreign occupier of a different pursuasion (for example the Catholic Church as focal point for Irish struggles against the British Protestants or the Polish struggle against atheistic Soviets). War makes even good people do bad things. I am not in a position to defend the actions of a billion Muslims; I am interested in Muslim theology. I'm not going to blame the Prophet Jesus, peace be upon Him, for the actions of Jim Jones, Slobodan Milosovic, or George Bush -- all loudly spouting Christians.

 

[no1tovote4]

There are several.

Here is one:
http://www.acage.org/news/?day=05192005&id=0013

The Priests themselves are the source of information.

 

[Annie]

I remain sceptical about this allegation for the reasons I mentioned. Do you have a source I could check? It is also worth noting that much of the PLO is comprised of secular Marxists. The people who seized the church may not have been devout Muslims, but then I don't know.

It is often difficult to separate theology from politics. This is especially true when the local religion becomes a rallying point for people struggling against a foreign occupier of a different pursuasion (for example the Catholic Church as focal point for Irish struggles against the British Protestants or the Polish struggle against atheistic Soviets). War makes even good people do bad things. I am not in a position to defend the actions of a billion Muslims; I am interested in Muslim theology. I'm not going to blame the Prophet Jesus, peace be upon Him, for the actions of Jim Jones, Slobodan Milosovic, or George Bush -- all loudly spouting Christians.

For the same reasons it's most difficult in the accusations about the Gitmo and Koran problem, yet that isn't stopping Amnesty International or ACLU, so go for it!

We don't give a flying F if it is released prisoners making complaints, from one side or the other. Treat them all the same, right?

 

[mrsx]

Always whining yet you missed the point as usual! Now back to your cave, pull that diaper over your head and suffocate yourself!

I can understand your frustration as a Christian over getting your ass whipped for the first time in over 300 years in Iraq. It can't hurt to try and hear what ARABIAN is trying to say. It might even save some lives, American lives.