Human(s) Chromosome 2 resulted from the Fusion of two Ape Chromosomes: Easily seen.

[Stryder50]

I am not your mommy. Go Google it.

See, you are already outing yourself. If you were honestly interested, you would have looked it up instead of childishly denying it exists without knowing either way.

But you are not honest. You just proved it. And I will not be doing your troll exercise. Sorry. Maybe someone else will.

You make the claim - you document the claim.
You claim there is "evidence", then show YOUR evidence.
Otherwise we just have your OPINION which hasn't carried much valid weight to date.

This is the same as the "claim" that homo habilis or home erectus also had the 46 instead of 48 chromosome sequence when no one has yet produce such a sequence~genome.

It's not a case of if you are my mommy or not, it's a case of if you are lying or not.

 

[Stryder50]

You don't get the first 4 posts of the thread?
It's explained quite well.
That Human Chromosone 2 is end-to-end a perfect match for the that of the great apes 2a and 2b?
Another in-denial godist that wants a video-tape but would convict someone to hang on a worse circumstantial case.
Endless demand-detail/Shift the Burden Fallacy/BS.

And this is just one piece of an even more extensive case with much more evidence. (fossils etc)
This (DNA)_ wasn't even known until well after Darwin's theory was accepted.
Like all the new relevant sciences since 1860 it has not only not been contradicted, but Helped confirm Evo.
`

I got the first four posts of this thread years ago. Been there and done that.
The issue you denseheads don't grasp is where are Denisovans and Neandertals, along with homo habilis and homo erectus in regards their basic DNA sequencing?
46 Chromosomes or 48?
For that matter, so far no one has established a proven timeline for when this fuse of chromos happened, or where and when we modern humans~homo sapiens sapiens branched off from the others whom branched off from the ape "tree".

FWIW, there is another DNA avenue to explore;
...
In 1987, A world wide survey of human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) was published by Cann, Stoneking, and Wilson in Nature magazine. Its main point was that "all mitochondrial DNAs stem from one woman" and that she probably lived around 200,000 years ago in Africa. When the media picked up from Wilson, one of the authors of the paper, that they had found the "Mitochondrial Eve" or "African Eve", the story became a sensation. Have scientists found "the mother of us all"?

Most people know about the nuclei of cells and that the genetic inheritance from both parents are found in the nucleus. Humans have 46 chromosomes which they inherit from both their parents. Parts of both the DNA from the mother and father are put together in a recombination process that allows the children to have traits from both their mother and their Father.

However, there is DNA located in other parts of the cell. In the cytoplasm, organelles called mitochondria, which provide energy for the cell in the form of ATP, also have DNA. This DNA, however, does not seem to come from both parents. Instead, it comes only from the mother and not from the Father (There seems to be some rare exceptions to the rule that only the mother contributes the mitochondrial DNA. See the mitochondrial Clock Update: Is maternal mitochondrial inheritance still thought to be true?).

Initially, it was thought that for humans, most of the sperm remained outside of the egg. Only the head with the nuclear DNA and the centrosome, were thought to enter the egg. But that view has changed. Now it has been determined that the whole sperm enters the egg. However, virtually all of the sperm is broken down by enzymes. Only the chromosomes found in the head of the sperm in crystalline form are preserved and used in the recombination process to produce the final version of the new egg cell DNA. The sperm mitochondria and its DNA are broken down by enzymes made for that purpose. See the mitochondrial Clock Update: for details. However, the end result is still the same. The mitochondria and its DNA from the sperm are not used. Only the mitochondria from the egg are used for the newly developing person.

So, our mitochondrial DNA is essentially identical to that of our mother. Mitochondrial DNA is transfered from mother to daughter, generation after generation. The mitochondrial DNA in the son, which he got from his mother, is a dead end street, since his mitochondrial DNA will not be used in his children.

Nuclear DNA changes a lot since it undergoes recombination in every generation. However, the mitochondrial DNA gets transfered from generation to generation without any recombination. Only the normal mutation rate that occurs when DNA is replicated allows the mitochondrial DNA to change. This is why the world wide survey was able to determine that all people are related via some original mother which they called the "mitochondrial Eve". They produced ancestral trees that depended on the slow mutation rate of mitochondrial DNA to estimate how the whole human population came from a single woman.

After the initial discovery of the "mitochondrial Eve", Wilson felt uneasy about using the term "Eve" because it caused many to think that she was the only woman living at that time, much like what is written in Genesis of the Bible concerning Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Also, the usual evolutionary time-scale for man did not allow such a short time as 200,000 years. Rather, it is believed that man has been around for a much longer period of time. Java man is thought to be 800,000 years old. Homo erectus specimens are found all throughout the world. Over forty specimens of Asian Homo erectus which have been found in China, have been dated 220,000 to 500,000 years of age. Lucy, and the earliest remains of specimens that are thought to be of the first to stand upright, are thought to be at least 1 to 4 million years of age.
...

The Mitochondrial Eve: Have Scientists Found the Mother of Us All? MHRC ​

Introduction of the mitochondrial Eve story. Is the Mitochondrial Clock speed faster than we thought? Don't expect the present mitochondrial clock rate to match an evolutionary rate based on the common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans.

www.mhrc.net




....
As presented in this thread which relates here some;
The Geminga Scenario

 

[abu afak]

I got the first four posts of this thread years ago. Been there and done that.
The issue you denseheads don't grasp is where are Denisovans and Neandertals, along with homo habilis and homo erectus in regards their basic DNA sequencing?
46 Chromosomes or 48?
For that matter, so far no one has established a proven timeline for when this fuse of chromos happened, or where and when we modern humans~homo sapiens sapiens branched off from the others whom branched off from the ape "tree".

FWIW, there is another DNA avenue to explore;
...
In 1987, A world wide survey of human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) was published by Cann, Stoneking, and Wilson in Nature magazine. Its main point was that "all mitochondrial DNAs stem from one woman" and that she probably lived around 200,000 years ago in Africa. When the media picked up from Wilson, one of the authors of the paper, that they had found the "Mitochondrial Eve" or "African Eve", the story became a sensation. Have scientists found "the mother of us all"?

Most people know about the nuclei of cells and that the genetic inheritance from both parents are found in the nucleus. Humans have 46 chromosomes which they inherit from both their parents. Parts of both the DNA from the mother and father are put together in a recombination process that allows the children to have traits from both their mother and their Father.

However, there is DNA located in other parts of the cell. In the cytoplasm, organelles called mitochondria, which provide energy for the cell in the form of ATP, also have DNA. This DNA, however, does not seem to come from both parents. Instead, it comes only from the mother and not from the Father (There seems to be some rare exceptions to the rule that only the mother contributes the mitochondrial DNA. See the mitochondrial Clock Update: Is maternal mitochondrial inheritance still thought to be true?).

Initially, it was thought that for humans, most of the sperm remained outside of the egg. Only the head with the nuclear DNA and the centrosome, were thought to enter the egg. But that view has changed. Now it has been determined that the whole sperm enters the egg. However, virtually all of the sperm is broken down by enzymes. Only the chromosomes found in the head of the sperm in crystalline form are preserved and used in the recombination process to produce the final version of the new egg cell DNA. The sperm mitochondria and its DNA are broken down by enzymes made for that purpose. See the mitochondrial Clock Update: for details. However, the end result is still the same. The mitochondria and its DNA from the sperm are not used. Only the mitochondria from the egg are used for the newly developing person.

So, our mitochondrial DNA is essentially identical to that of our mother. Mitochondrial DNA is transfered from mother to daughter, generation after generation. The mitochondrial DNA in the son, which he got from his mother, is a dead end street, since his mitochondrial DNA will not be used in his children.

Nuclear DNA changes a lot since it undergoes recombination in every generation. However, the mitochondrial DNA gets transfered from generation to generation without any recombination. Only the normal mutation rate that occurs when DNA is replicated allows the mitochondrial DNA to change. This is why the world wide survey was able to determine that all people are related via some original mother which they called the "mitochondrial Eve". They produced ancestral trees that depended on the slow mutation rate of mitochondrial DNA to estimate how the whole human population came from a single woman.

After the initial discovery of the "mitochondrial Eve", Wilson felt uneasy about using the term "Eve" because it caused many to think that she was the only woman living at that time, much like what is written in Genesis of the Bible concerning Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Also, the usual evolutionary time-scale for man did not allow such a short time as 200,000 years. Rather, it is believed that man has been around for a much longer period of time. Java man is thought to be 800,000 years old. Homo erectus specimens are found all throughout the world. Over forty specimens of Asian Homo erectus which have been found in China, have been dated 220,000 to 500,000 years of age. Lucy, and the earliest remains of specimens that are thought to be of the first to stand upright, are thought to be at least 1 to 4 million years of age.
...

The Mitochondrial Eve: Have Scientists Found the Mother of Us All? MHRC ​

Introduction of the mitochondrial Eve story. Is the Mitochondrial Clock speed faster than we thought? Don't expect the present mitochondrial clock rate to match an evolutionary rate based on the common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans.

www.mhrc.net




....
As presented in this thread which relates here some;
The Geminga Scenario

What an OFF TOPIC Rant to the issue at hand.
The Fusion (a mutation) of Chromo 2.
A baffle em with BS post to cover the fact he can't deal with THE TOPIC at hand.

Look up the issue.
I learn from debating any topic.
Duh. I just did.
Denisovans had 46.

Denisovans, Humans and the Chromosome 2 Fusion - BioLogos

The Denisovans, an extinct hominid group that interbred with modern humans, made the news again with the publication of a more detailed study of their genome.

biologos.org

and

DENISOVANS, NEANDERTHALS AND LARGE APES: WHEN DID WE SEPARATE?​

Analyses being performed currently on genomes of extinct species that are directly related to us, such as Denisovans and Neanderthals, reveal that these species already presented the chromosome fusion that originated the long chromosome 2 that is characteristic of humans (3). Therefore, this rearrangement of chromosomes goes a long way back in time: estimates using various methods date this from 0.75 to 4.5 million years ago.

The fact that Denisovans and Neanderthals had the same chromosome number as we do may explain why the descendants from inter-species cross-breeding with our species were viable and possibly fertile. This would also explain why traces of their genetic characteristics remain in our genome, as shown by the comparative genomic analysis of the three species...."
[......]

The Origin of the Human Species: a Chromosome Fusion? | OpenMind

Perhaps a chromosome fusion is in the origin of the human species. Manuel Rejón poses this thesis explaining the process in his article.

www.bbvaopenmind.com

`

 

[Stryder50]

What an OFF TOPIC Rant to the issue at hand.
The Fusion (a mutation) of Chromo 2.
A baffle em with BS post to cover the fact he can't deal with THE TOPIC at hand.

Look up the issue.
I learn from debating any topic.
Duh. I just did.
Denisovans had 46.

Denisovans, Humans and the Chromosome 2 Fusion - BioLogos

The Denisovans, an extinct hominid group that interbred with modern humans, made the news again with the publication of a more detailed study of their genome.

biologos.org

and

DENISOVANS, NEANDERTHALS AND LARGE APES: WHEN DID WE SEPARATE?​

Analyses being performed currently on genomes of extinct species that are directly related to us, such as Denisovans and Neanderthals, reveal that these species already presented the chromosome fusion that originated the long chromosome 2 that is characteristic of humans (3). Therefore, this rearrangement of chromosomes goes a long way back in time: estimates using various methods date this from 0.75 to 4.5 million years ago.

The fact that Denisovans and Neanderthals had the same chromosome number as we do may explain why the descendants from inter-species cross-breeding with our species were viable and possibly fertile. This would also explain why traces of their genetic characteristics remain in our genome, as shown by the comparative genomic analysis of the three species...."
[......]

The Origin of the Human Species: a Chromosome Fusion? | OpenMind

Perhaps a chromosome fusion is in the origin of the human species. Manuel Rejón poses this thesis explaining the process in his article.

www.bbvaopenmind.com

`

Thanks.

I found those after my posts here when doing some search of my own. However I'm still waiting for an actual full illustration~diagram of the total genome of Denisovans and Neanderthal so we can compare against we modern humans to see how the gene content matches up. This excerpt from your second link;

"However, it has also been found that the fusion area that originated our chromosome 2 lacks some regions and sequences that correspond to subtelomeric areas present in the two chromosomes fused in our species. In other words, the fusion must have involved loss and rearrangement of part of the genetic material of the two originally separate chromosomes in the ancestors we have in common with the large apes."

I'm curious if such, the bold, was also the case with Denisovans and/or Neanderthals.

Also, if the low end of the timeline applies, that 0.75 million years ago is also expressed as @750,000 years ago and bumps up against the mtDNA of "Mitochondrial Eve", from @300-200,000 years ago and leaves one to wonder if we=homo sapiens sapiens are even more removed genetically from Denisovans and Neanderthals.

 

[Stryder50]

What an OFF TOPIC Rant to the issue at hand.
The Fusion (a mutation) of Chromo 2.
A baffle em with BS post to cover the fact he can't deal with THE TOPIC at hand.

Look up the issue.
I learn from debating any topic.
Duh. I just did.
Denisovans had 46.

Denisovans, Humans and the Chromosome 2 Fusion - BioLogos

The Denisovans, an extinct hominid group that interbred with modern humans, made the news again with the publication of a more detailed study of their genome.

biologos.org

and

DENISOVANS, NEANDERTHALS AND LARGE APES: WHEN DID WE SEPARATE?​

Analyses being performed currently on genomes of extinct species that are directly related to us, such as Denisovans and Neanderthals, reveal that these species already presented the chromosome fusion that originated the long chromosome 2 that is characteristic of humans (3). Therefore, this rearrangement of chromosomes goes a long way back in time: estimates using various methods date this from 0.75 to 4.5 million years ago.

The fact that Denisovans and Neanderthals had the same chromosome number as we do may explain why the descendants from inter-species cross-breeding with our species were viable and possibly fertile. This would also explain why traces of their genetic characteristics remain in our genome, as shown by the comparative genomic analysis of the three species...."
[......]

The Origin of the Human Species: a Chromosome Fusion? | OpenMind

Perhaps a chromosome fusion is in the origin of the human species. Manuel Rejón poses this thesis explaining the process in his article.

www.bbvaopenmind.com

`

This from your first link is also helpful;
...
...A fusion does not precipitate a speciation event, but rather the individual with the fusion remains a part of his or her population, and able to interbreed, even if with reduced fertility. Also, there is no necessary biological effect or change that the fusion produces on the appearance of the organism. These misunderstandings aside, however,what this new evidence shows is that this fusion event took place long before modern humans arose at around 200,000 years ago. Indeed, the 800,000 years ago date for the last human – Denisovan common ancestor means that this is the most recent date possible for the fusion. While it is an interesting piece of our evolutionary history, it doesn’t seem to have much to do with how we came to acquire the traits that set us apart from, and ultimately outcompete, other similar species.
...

Denisovans, Humans and the Chromosome 2 Fusion - BioLogos

The Denisovans, an extinct hominid group that interbred with modern humans, made the news again with the publication of a more detailed study of their genome.

biologos.org

 

[Stryder50]

I don't see any place for this goofy religious numerology in the science section.

Considering that a certain religious faction of this planet = Islam = is using their "goofy religious numerology" doctrine~Koran; etc. to justify global war/Conflict to make all humanity "One" in Religion/Dogma it gains major consideration ~ if one is applying elements of strategic thinking and planning.

"Know your enemy; Know yourself; win your battles."

 

[Stryder50]

OKay - so maybe we've established some consensus on when modern humans acquired the joined chromosome to go from a pair equal to 48 to one of 46.

Next issue/questions is when (and how) modern humans lost their fur ???

Our "ape" ancestors retain a covering of hair/fur across their bodies, yet we "humans" have lost most of our skin layer coverage of hair/fur ~ yet somehow we got this trend for our head, top of scalp hair, to grow indefinitely in length.

How, when, and/or why did this happen ???

 

[abu afak]

OKay - so maybe we've established some consensus on when modern humans acquired the joined chromosome to go from a pair equal to 48 to one of 46.

Next issue/questions is when (and how) modern humans lost their fur ???

Our "ape" ancestors retain a covering of hair/fur across their bodies, yet we "humans" have lost most of our skin layer coverage of hair/fur ~ yet somehow we got this trend for our head, top of scalp hair, to grow indefinitely in length.

How, when, and/or why did this happen ???

I's really so easy these days -seconds- yet few do it.
When do you use google, only for local restaurants?

hair on humans evolution - Google Search

`

 

[ding]

Contrary to what you might read from some IDIOT KWEATIOIST Website...
(Like ICR/Institute for Creation Research recently posted here.)
this is a SIMPLE one and a BIGGIE.
Easy to understand/SEE.
We have 23 pairs of Chromos, ALL GREAT Apes 24.
Their 2 a/b fused into our #2 as can be easily seen when put next to one another.

​

Introduction​

​

All great apes apart from man have 24 pairs of chromosomes. There is therefore a hypothesis that the common ancestor of all great apes had 24 pairs of chromosomes and that the fusion of two of the ancestor's chromosomes created chromosome 2 in humans. The evidence for this hypothesis is very strong.​

​

The Evidence​

​

Evidence for fusing of two ancestral chromosomes to create human chromosome 2 and where there has been no fusion in other Great Apes is:​

​

1) The analogous chromosomes (2p and 2q) in the non-human great apes can be shown, when laid end to end, to create an identical banding structure to the human chromosome 2. (1)​

​

2) The remains of the sequence that the chromosome has on its ends (the telomere) is found in the middle of human chromosome 2 where the ancestral chromosomes fused. (2)​

​

3) the detail of this region (pre-telomeric sequence, telomeric sequence, reversed telomeric sequence, pre-telomeric sequence) is exactly what we would expect from a fusion. (3)[/B]​

​

4) this telomeric region is Exactly where one would expect to find it if a fusion had occurred in the middle of human chromosome 2.​

​

5) the centromere of human chromosome 2 Lines up with the chimp chromosome 2p chromosomal centromere.​

​

6) At the place where we would expect it on the human chromosome we find the Remnants of the chimp 2q centromere (4).​

​

Not only is this Strong evidence for a fusion event, but it is also strong evidence for Common ancestry; in fact, it is hard to explain by any other mechanism.​

​

​

​

Explanations​

​

Telomere evidence​

​

The telomere is a sequence of DNA at the end of the chromosome. The function of the telomere is to protect the ends of the chromosomal DNA strands during replication. The ends of the strands are very vulnerable to mutations or deletions. Telomeres consist of, or contain long stretches of simple DNA sequences that are repeated many times. The telomeres tend to be shortened over time and are restored by an enzyme called telomerase which lengthens the sequence. If the telomere becomes too short in somatic cells, errors in duplication can occur leading to cancers.​

​

The telomere sequence is highly conserved in different groups of organisms. For example vertebrates have the sequence TTAGGG repeated many times. (In primates the sequence is repeated 500 to 3500 times). Adjacent to the telomere, are regions with other DNA repeats (known as Telomere Associated Repeats) but these regions, rather than being highly conserved, are highly polymorphic - that is they have many variations even within the same species. Nevertheless the pretelomeric region can be easily recognised in closely related species. Occasionally genes are found in the pretelomeric region.​

​

Now these telomeric and pretelomeric sequences are normally found only on chromosome ends. However, in human chromosome 2, there is strong evidence for chromosome fusing in that there is a pretelomeric sequence, a telomeric sequence, an inverted telomeric sequence and an inverted pretelomeric sequence in that order in the middle of the chromosome.​

​

​

Centromere evidence​

​

Turning now to the centromere. The process of somatic cell division (mitosis) is as follows (this is a very brief and simplified summary to explain the centromere):​

[.............]​

​

[.............]​

​

​

Chromosome fusion

Demonstration that human chromosome 2 is the fusion of two ancestral chromosomes

www.evolutionpages.com

Sounds like you are arguing for genetic mutation rather than natural selection.

 

[Stryder50]

I's really so easy these days -seconds- yet few do it.
When do you use google, only for local restaurants?

hair on humans evolution - Google Search

`

Would appear that rhetorical questions and comments are beyond your limited mental grasp.

>Thanks for the link though, it provides insight to part of the issue.<

The issue of modern pre-human and current human loss of fur ~ skin hair was addressed nearly 50 years ago in a rather disturbing hypothesis;*

The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis;
...
The aquatic ape hypothesis (AAH), also referred to as aquatic ape theory (AAT) or the waterside hypothesis of human evolution, postulates that the ancestors of modern humans took a divergent evolutionary pathway from the other great apes by becoming adapted to a more aquatic habitat.[1]

The hypothesis was initially proposed by the marine biologist Alister Hardy in 1960, who argued that a branch of apes was forced by competition over terrestrial habitats to hunt for food such as shellfish on the sea shore and sea bed, leading to adaptations that explained distinctive characteristics of modern humans such as functional hairlessness and bipedalism.[2] Elaine Morgan's 1990 book on the hypothesis, Scars of Evolution, received some favorable reviews but was subject to criticism from the anthropologist John Langdon in 1997, who characterized it as an "umbrella hypothesis" with inconsistencies that were unresolved and a claim to parsimony that was false.[3]

The hypothesis is highly controversial, and has been criticized by many as a pseudoscience.[4][5] The hypothesis is thought to be more popular with the lay public than with scientists; in the scientific literature, it is generally ignored by anthropologists.[6][4]
...

Aquatic ape hypothesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Controversial to some, but no more, or less, supportable than the hypothesis of 'getting down out of the trees to walk upright as a better hunter for our omnivore feeding habits'.

AAH/AAT at least explains better some quirks of human physiology that the "Descent of Man" biased theories can't do as good a job at.

There is also the more common snese position that since Nature and Evolution favors what is best to sustain and reproduce the species, that mutations~evolutions will favor the baby-making mother and her needs over those of the low investment father.

A couple other references to come in following posts.

*FWIW, we humans still have nearly as many hair follicles as our earlier ancestors and the near related mammals. Only the hair we grow is not as thick or dense since we no longer depend upon it for insulation, having developed a thicker layer of fat just under our outer skin.

What is Subcutaneous Fat?​

What is Subcutaneous Fat?

Subcutaneous fat plays some vital roles in the body, but too much can increase health risks.

www.verywellfit.com

 

[Stryder50]

First essential read/book on this subject of AAH/AAT;
...

The Descent of Woman​

Elaine Morgan

...
The Descent of Woman is a pioneering work, the first to argue for the equal role of women in human evolution. On its first publication in 1972 it sparked an international debate and became a rallying-point for feminism, changing the terminology of anthropologists forever. Starting with her demolition of the Biblical myth that woman was an afterthought to the creation of man, Elaine Morgan rewrites human history and evolution.

This lively, informative book sets out to solve the riddle of our origins; its answer is controversial. Elaine Morgan has made The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis a plausible alternative to conventional theories of evolution and The Descent of Woman first set out an understanding of who humans are and where they came from.

Elaine Morgan was best known as a writer for television until the publication of The Descent of Woman in 1972, which became an international bestseller. She then spent ten years researching human evolution before publishing The Aquatic Ape (published by Souvenir Press as a revised edition, The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis) in 1982. In the years since, The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis has gone on to win widespread support among scientists.
It is a measure of Elaine Morgan's enduring importance, provocative thought and international reputation that in January 2006, the first Chinese translation of The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis became a Number 1 bestseller in Taiwan.
...

The Descent of Woman

The Descent of Woman is a pioneering work, the first to argue for the equal role of women in human evolution. On its first publication in...

www.goodreads.com

 

[Stryder50]

Another essential read and examination of the real drivers of human DNA mutations and evolutions;
...

The Seven Daughters of Eve: The Science That Reveals Our Genetic Ancestry​

...
One of the most dramatic stories of genetic discovery since James Watson's The Double Helix—a work whose scientific and cultural reverberations will be discussed for years to come.

In 1994 Professor Bryan Sykes, a leading world authority on DNA and human evolution, was called in to examine the frozen remains of a man trapped in glacial ice in northern Italy. News of both the Ice Man's discovery and his age, which was put at over five thousand years, fascinated scientists and newspapers throughout the world. But what made Sykes's story particularly revelatory was his successful identification of a genetic descendant of the Ice Man, a woman living in Great Britain today. How was Sykes able to locate a living relative of a man who died thousands of years ago?

In The Seven Daughters of Eve, he gives us a firsthand account of his research into a remarkable gene, which passes undiluted from generation to generation through the maternal line. After plotting thousands of DNA sequences from all over the world, Sykes found that they clustered around a handful of distinct groups. Among Europeans and North American Caucasians, there are, in fact, only seven. This conclusion was staggering: almost everyone of native European descent, wherever they may live throughout the world, can trace their ancestry back to one of seven women, the Seven Daughters of Eve.

Naming them Ursula, Xenia, Helena, Velda, Tara, Katrine, and Jasmine, Sykes has created portraits of their disparate worlds by mapping the migratory patterns followed by millions of their ancestors. In reading the stories of these seven women, we learn exactly how our origins can be traced, how and where our ancient genetic ancestors lived, and how we are each living proof of the almost indestructible strands of DNA, which have survived over so many thousands of years. Indeed, The Seven Daughters of Eve is filled with dramatic stories: from Sykes's identification, using DNA samples from two living relatives, of the remains of Tsar Nicholas and Tsaress Alexandra, to the Caribbean woman whose family had been sold into slavery centuries before and whose ancestry Sykes was able to trace back to the Eastern coast of central Africa. Ultimately, Sykes's investigation reveals that, as a race, what humans have in common is more deeply embedded than what separates us.
...

The Seven Daughters of Eve: The Science That Reveals Ou…

One of the most dramatic stories of genetic discovery s…

www.goodreads.com

 

[Stryder50]

Also;
...

The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis: Most Credible Theory of Human Evolution Hardcover – Import, July 17, 1997​

by Elaine Morgan
...
Why do humans differ from other primates? What do those differences tell us about human evolution? Elaine Morgan gives a revolutionary hypothesis that explains our anatomic anomalies—why we walk on two legs, why we are covered in fat, why we can control our rate of breathing. The answers point to one conclusion: millions of years ago our ancestors were trapped in a semi-aquatic environment. In presenting her case Elaine Morgan forces scientists to question accepted theories of human evolution, while expressing complex ideas for the general reader in a clear and accessible style. A documentary by Sir David Attenborough, The Waterside Ape, is based on Morgan's Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
...
Amazon product

 

[Cougarbear]

Contrary to what you might read from some IDIOT KWEATIOIST Website...
(Like ICR/Institute for Creation Research recently posted here.)
this is a SIMPLE one and a BIGGIE.
Easy to understand/SEE.
We have 23 pairs of Chromos, ALL GREAT Apes 24.
Their 2 a/b fused into our #2 as can be easily seen when put next to one another.

​

Introduction​

​

All great apes apart from man have 24 pairs of chromosomes. There is therefore a hypothesis that the common ancestor of all great apes had 24 pairs of chromosomes and that the fusion of two of the ancestor's chromosomes created chromosome 2 in humans. The evidence for this hypothesis is very strong.​

​

The Evidence​

​

Evidence for fusing of two ancestral chromosomes to create human chromosome 2 and where there has been no fusion in other Great Apes is:​

​

1) The analogous chromosomes (2p and 2q) in the non-human great apes can be shown, when laid end to end, to create an identical banding structure to the human chromosome 2. (1)​

​

2) The remains of the sequence that the chromosome has on its ends (the telomere) is found in the middle of human chromosome 2 where the ancestral chromosomes fused. (2)​

​

3) the detail of this region (pre-telomeric sequence, telomeric sequence, reversed telomeric sequence, pre-telomeric sequence) is exactly what we would expect from a fusion. (3)[/B]​

​

4) this telomeric region is Exactly where one would expect to find it if a fusion had occurred in the middle of human chromosome 2.​

​

5) the centromere of human chromosome 2 Lines up with the chimp chromosome 2p chromosomal centromere.​

​

6) At the place where we would expect it on the human chromosome we find the Remnants of the chimp 2q centromere (4).​

​

Not only is this Strong evidence for a fusion event, but it is also strong evidence for Common ancestry; in fact, it is hard to explain by any other mechanism.​

​

​

​

Explanations​

​

Telomere evidence​

​

The telomere is a sequence of DNA at the end of the chromosome. The function of the telomere is to protect the ends of the chromosomal DNA strands during replication. The ends of the strands are very vulnerable to mutations or deletions. Telomeres consist of, or contain long stretches of simple DNA sequences that are repeated many times. The telomeres tend to be shortened over time and are restored by an enzyme called telomerase which lengthens the sequence. If the telomere becomes too short in somatic cells, errors in duplication can occur leading to cancers.​

​

The telomere sequence is highly conserved in different groups of organisms. For example vertebrates have the sequence TTAGGG repeated many times. (In primates the sequence is repeated 500 to 3500 times). Adjacent to the telomere, are regions with other DNA repeats (known as Telomere Associated Repeats) but these regions, rather than being highly conserved, are highly polymorphic - that is they have many variations even within the same species. Nevertheless the pretelomeric region can be easily recognised in closely related species. Occasionally genes are found in the pretelomeric region.​

​

Now these telomeric and pretelomeric sequences are normally found only on chromosome ends. However, in human chromosome 2, there is strong evidence for chromosome fusing in that there is a pretelomeric sequence, a telomeric sequence, an inverted telomeric sequence and an inverted pretelomeric sequence in that order in the middle of the chromosome.​

​

​

Centromere evidence​

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Turning now to the centromere. The process of somatic cell division (mitosis) is as follows (this is a very brief and simplified summary to explain the centromere):​

[.............]​

​

[.............]​

​

​

Chromosome fusion

Demonstration that human chromosome 2 is the fusion of two ancestral chromosomes

www.evolutionpages.com

Nope! Been refuted successfully before. Bringing this up again is old crap.

New Research Undermines Key Argument for Human Evolution

One of the leading arguments for human evolution from a shared common ancestor with apes is the "chromosome 2 fusion model." This hypothetical model proposes that the end-to-end fusion of two small ape-like chromosomes resulted in the human chromosome 2, which supposedly explains the difference...

www.icr.org

 

[abu afak]

Nope! Been refuted successfully before. Bringing this up again is old crap.

New Research Undermines Key Argument for Human Evolution

One of the leading arguments for human evolution from a shared common ancestor with apes is the "chromosome 2 fusion model." This hypothetical model proposes that the end-to-end fusion of two small ape-like chromosomes resulted in the human chromosome 2, which supposedly explains the difference...

www.icr.org

:^)

"ICR" is the InstiSTOOP for Creation Research.
Like Creation-con, Discovery, and AnswersInGenecYst.

Maybe that works for you on some boards.
`

 

[abu afak]

Would appear that rhetorical questions and comments are beyond your limited mental grasp.

>Thanks for the link though, it provides insight to part of the issue.<

The issue of modern pre-human and current human loss of fur ~ skin hair was addressed nearly 50 years ago in a rather disturbing hypothesis;*

The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis;
...
The aquatic ape hypothesis (AAH), also referred to as aquatic ape theory (AAT) or the waterside hypothesis of human evolution, postulates that the ancestors of modern humans took a divergent evolutionary pathway from the other great apes by becoming adapted to a more aquatic habitat.[1]

The hypothesis was initially proposed by the marine biologist Alister Hardy in 1960, who argued that a branch of apes was forced by competition over terrestrial habitats to hunt for food such as shellfish on the sea shore and sea bed, leading to adaptations that explained distinctive characteristics of modern humans such as functional hairlessness and bipedalism.[2] Elaine Morgan's 1990 book on the hypothesis, Scars of Evolution, received some favorable reviews but was subject to criticism from the anthropologist John Langdon in 1997, who characterized it as an "umbrella hypothesis" with inconsistencies that were unresolved and a claim to parsimony that was false.[3]

The hypothesis is highly controversial, and has been criticized by many as a pseudoscience.[4][5] The hypothesis is thought to be more popular with the lay public than with scientists; in the scientific literature, it is generally ignored by anthropologists.[6][4]
...

Aquatic ape hypothesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Controversial to some, but no more, or less, supportable than the hypothesis of 'getting down out of the trees to walk upright as a better hunter for our omnivore feeding habits'.

AAH/AAT at least explains better some quirks of human physiology that the "Descent of Man" biased theories can't do as good a job at.

There is also the more common snese position that since Nature and Evolution favors what is best to sustain and reproduce the species, that mutations~evolutions will favor the baby-making mother and her needs over those of the low investment father.

A couple other references to come in following posts.

*FWIW, we humans still have nearly as many hair follicles as our earlier ancestors and the near related mammals. Only the hair we grow is not as thick or dense since we no longer depend upon it for insulation, having developed a thicker layer of fat just under our outer skin.

What is Subcutaneous Fat?​

What is Subcutaneous Fat?

Subcutaneous fat plays some vital roles in the body, but too much can increase health risks.

www.verywellfit.com

You said
""How, when, and/or why did this happen ???""

That (with 3 question marks, no less) is Not rhetorical and begs for an answer.

This board is full of beauties of all sort.

`

 

[Stryder50]

You said
""How, when, and/or why did this happen ???""

That (with 3 question marks, no less) is Not rhetorical and begs for an answer.

This board is full of beauties of all sort.

`

Yet, also known as "baiting" ~ "Otherwise Known As" ~OKA ~~~

AKA (Also Known As ) a "trap" to see if you would "bite" ~~~

Which you did !

This board is full of many "beauties", many of which you fail to grasp or know how to respond to correctly . . . ~ ~ ~

Nothing New and "To Be Expected" ~ TBE.

 

[Likkmee]

Female humans have 23 and male humans have 23
Jesus had 24.
23 from a human female and one from a non human male

 

[ClaireH]

What about Neanderthal, Denisovan, Australopithecus......, I am skeptical because from just one pairing is a truckload of differences, not likely to be that many from original pair.


View attachment 443084

LINK

Indeed, and there is stronger evidence now in 2022 regarding the various histories of and the intermingling of our human first ancestor and mixing with Neanderthals separate lineage. According to recent archaeological studies based upon bone findings, the difference in the success of our human ancestry as opposed to the Neanderthals’ demise is Neanderthals likely failed to master fire- to figure out how to create it on their own without use of initial heat source-lightening and some keeping it going for generations even. Amazing studies….I would love to be an archaeologist had I lived another life. Relatedly, man’s “thirst for blood” once discovered, was another reason why our direct ancestors gained brain and body mass/power more so than the Neanderthals. Until tools are developed to dig deeper back in time, it is thought that Neanderthals did not eat enough meat to develop better brains for long-term survival. Although it’s interesting Neanderthals are often depicted as have been the strongest ever, seems brains is where it really counts.

Anecdotally, my genetic line (according to 23 and me anyway- might be later confirmed that it’s a total scam company but right now it’s still floating as legit) bit of Neanderthal DNA! That seriously blows me away but would explain a lot lol

 

[Cougarbear]

:^)

"ICR" is the InstiSTOOP for Creation Research.
Like Creation-con, Discovery, and AnswersInGenecYst.

Maybe that works for you on some boards.
`

Did you read the article? It was quoting some evolution scientists that now realize their error on this. It just doesn't work. The studies you read were incorrectly evaluated. They don't fit.