Zone1 How Would You React if your Religion were Proven False?

[MarathonMike]

You don't understand what freedom is when you don't understand this. Your problem seems to be that you seem to think this has something to do with absurd male idiots and their ideas about sex and heroism. But the story is a totally other story. It's about to agree with life and not to fear death - for example - and it's a story about much more. But it's not the story that only idiots are able to understand god.

Let me guess. English is your second language am I right?

 

[frigidweirdo]

For several months now, I have been watching videos published by an Islamic scholar named Jay Smith. His credentials are both unique and impressive, and he has made a lifetime campaign of challenging Islamic history, beliefs, and theology, often in direct debates with Islamic scholars.



In recent years it has come to light that the Mecca of the Quran simply did not exist; it came along much later, long after Mo-hammed had assumed room temperature. Not only is there no archaeological evidence to support its existence in the relevant time period (the Saudi government prohibits non-approved archaeologists snooping around Mecca), but no contemporaneous documents or evidence even mention its existence at the time of Mo-hammed. Further, the first biography of Mo-hammed himself doesn't appear until about 200 years after his traditional date of death, so it is sourced from exactly nobody who ever knew that personage, assuming that he actually did exist. Also, none of the early Islamic mosques is "pointed at" Mecca, as all later mosques are required to be, indicating that the first Muslims had no particular reverence for that city or location.

And as Smith always says, Islam is founded on a person, place, and time, and if any one of them falls apart, the whole thing falls apart (theologically).

In the U.S. we have a similar situation with the people who are commonly called the "Mormons." Their founder, Joe Smith, has been proven to be a self-aggrandizing fraud, who made up the Book of Mormon, filling it with a history that is proven false by both archaeology and DNA evidence. Many books have been written documenting the false and often preposterous teachings of Smith and his immediate successor, Brigham Young.

Judaism and Christianity are both largely based on FAITH, which by definition is unprovable, but they both have a lot of archaeological support, contemporaneous mentions in third party literature, and are mostly based on eye-witness accounts. Christianity and the basics of Judaism will never be disproven by science, unlike Islam and Mormonism.

So what do you do when your religion - the religion that you were brought up to believe - is disproven by science?

Can one say that few educated and intelligent Muslims and Mormons actually believe the shit that they hear in their religious services? Or would that be too cynical?

A religion is a religion because none of it can be proven. They're sources of power, attempting to keep people in line.

 

[BothWings]

Self fulfilling prophecy....with a glaze of pure karma.

 

[zaangalewa]

Let me guess. English is your second language am I right?

English is a language? H'mn. ... What do you like to know, language amputee?



The jackdaws dance and drift above the ground.
In barren rocks, my song is alone,
only the misty veils drift with it through the stone.

Huts, abandoned, crumbling by the way.
I would like to sit by the fire, the pan on the stove,
a bottle of juniper, we would have emptied it.

Up on the saddle, the rain wind blows.
And by the cross, we sit together,
where the jackdaws dance and cry above the ridge.

 

[lennypartiv]

The OP picked the wrong religion.

Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Irrefutable Proof that Joseph Smith Was a Fraud: Why Mormonism is Not Christian

The cult of Mormonism stands precariously like a house of cards, easily toppled by two simple and unarguable facts: Smith's immoral character and his many false prophecies.

christinprophecy.org

 

[zaangalewa]

A religion is a religion because none of it can be proven. ...

"I believe in god."
Disprove it.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

What concept of "evolution" - ¿instead of god? - do you speak about?

I appreciate the honesty you used in allowing that evolution is a concept [one I happen to ascribe] and I was referring to evolution in the generic sense where something grows and changes...this should not have needed explaining but as so often happens social education strikesagain.

The tranformation of created energy which is not able to be made nor able to be destroyed?

I cannot tell if you are describing god or the evolutionary process.

By the way. You said something about evolution totally out of any context. If I remember well then your message had been: "Because of evolution all Christians are idiots so I am right not to believe in god". Was this your message?

I didn't call anyone an idiot, I don't speak like that, I called them white liberals.

 

[BULLDOG]

Do you have faith in science?

I believe science offers the best answers we have with the information we have to work with. Of course those answers can and will change with better/more complete information.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

A religion is a religion because none of it can be proven. They're sources of power, attempting to keep people in line.

Ditto socialism/communism with climate change the Armageddon and taxes the collection plate. I look at those things and see the same thing you see in religion.

 

[Hafar1014]

I think they all have been disproven.

When a conflict arises between your faith and science……just fall back on your faith

Religion cant be proven false. Science can be and it doesnt matter because these are apples and oranges

 

[Frankeneinstein]

I believe science offers the best answers we have with the information we have to work with.

You believe? a tenet of faith

Of course those answers can and will change with better/more complete information.

which means they are wrong right now.

 

[Hafar1014]

I believe science offers the best answers we have with the information we have to work with. Of course those answers can and will change with better/more complete information.

40% or more of all scientific research is invalid.

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False - PMC

There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same question, and, importantly, the ratio of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Science cant address moral answers religion does. Lets not confuse these two different ways of thinking since they serve different purposes. Dont make the mistake of making science a religion.

 

[Hafar1014]

Ditto socialism/communism with climate change the Armageddon and taxes the collection plate. I look at those things and see the same thing you see in religion.

Socialism/Communism were atheist and slaughtered over 100 million people

 

[BULLDOG]

You believe? a tenet of faith

which means they are wrong right now.

To believe something is not the same as faith. To believe something while disregarding opposing evidence is

Of course science is probably wrong about some things right now. That's why it constantly strives for better information.

 

[Hafar1014]

To believe something is not the same as faith. To believe something while disregarding opposing evidence is

Of course science is probably wrong about some things right now. That's why it constantly strives for better information.

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False - PMC

There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same question, and, importantly, the ratio of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Much of research is a fraud by intent

 

[BULLDOG]

40% or more of all scientific research is invalid.

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False - PMC

There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same question, and, importantly, the ratio of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Science cant address moral answers religion does. Lets not confuse these two different ways of thinking since they serve different purposes. Dont make the mistake of making science a religion.

Science doesn't try to make moral judgements. That is up to people to do.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Socialism/Communism were atheist and slaughtered over 100 million people

While the faithful turn a blind eye.

 

[ding]

Not really
You just are

There doesn’t have to be a reason

Yes, really. Religion is a convenient excuse for you.

 

[Hafar1014]

No Reagan and the Pope caused the collapse of the USSR.

While the faithful turn a blind eye

 

[rightwinger]

Religion cant be proven false. Science can be and it doesnt matter because these are apples and oranges

Nothing ca n be proven false if you are unwilling to accept evidence to the contrary