CDZ How Will the Robotics Revolution Impact the Democratic Party?

[JimBowie1958]

Advanced AI robots are just around the proverbial corner. Not only can computers analyze and solve problems independently, but it is being miniaturized enough that such systems can be put on desk tops and smaller devices. Put these AI computers on mobile robots and you have a whole new source of labor. Some mobile robots would look like dogs of various types and be used to carry supplies and tools and do some repairs and labor where it is easily accessible, but there will also be androids that can mimic human mobility and accessibility as well.







The mobility of such androids would remove about 99% of the advantage human beings will have over robots, most of whom today are stationary on factory assembly lines. The predicted price tag for these robots will be around $1500

But also they are being taught/programmed to learn social cues as well, and so, though they still have the creepy factor now, that wont be a large impediment for most labor tasks and will disappear in the coming decade.



Now the Democratic Party has long had a rough systematic form in our political system. The urban ward bosses, who were Democrat usually, would provide jobs and succor for immigrants, they would provide the urban businesses with cheap immigrant labor, and also supply the Democratic Party with huge numbers of voters. This system worked all the way through the black riots that basically impoverished most of our urban areas in the 1960s, as blacks from rural areas were the newest immigrant population, relative to Northern cityscapes anyway.

But the detrimental flaw to this system for the Democrats was that as immigrants assimilated into the Middle Class, they tended to go Republican, and the Dems lost voters. The solution had always been to simply link in a new set of ethnic minority immigrants, but there were fewer and fewer new ethnicities coming in from Europe by the 1960s that couldnt go directly into their own ethnic communities and bypass the big city ward bosses.

So Ted Kennedy pushed changes to our immigration system through Congress and we started taking in more immigrants from outside of Europe. The laws were also changed to make Hispanics a non white ethnicity in the census and in various federal programs. The intent was to create a permanent subclass of workers that would permanently vote Democrat and never assimilate into the American Middle Class. The logic of this approach is reaching its tolerable extremes today as the Democratic Presidential nominee has endorsed a Marxist organization that not only wants racial segregation, reparations for slavery and "community ownership of property" they also see the white establishment patrician oligarchs of the Democratic party as their enemy, though they are cutting political deals with them. With each passing year, the Democrats have alienated white voters, especially white male voters, and now the technological-economic Tsunami is about to hit them.

Robotics makes all these cheap labor jobs obsolete for human labor. *POOF* goes the need for black market labor. *POOF* goes the entry level jobs. *POOF* goes the growing demographic wedge the Democrats have been counting on for their political future - the wild growth of a Hispanic economic underclass. Robotics makes all that a bad dream and changes the Middle Class need to hire cheap labor into a Middle Class need for cheap robots, which the local whiz kid will be able to build in his own garage using online instructions, open source code and 3D printed components.

So what will the Democratic party do as its permanently poor Hispanic underclass migrates back out of the country? What will they do as urban unemployment rates hit 60%+?

Job mongering policies are the only answer for the Democratic Party to recapture its role as chief patronage-spoils system distributor to the working class voter. And that cannot work with their current hostility to Middle Class white America still in place.

While I seriously doubt that the Democratic Party will go back to Jim Crow, I do think that they will continue the neglect of Jewish and black communities interests, not attacking them, just ignoring them, as they develop strong bonds with White Nationalists who will have to learn how to be polite 'haters' much like Jackie Robinson had to learn how to be a quiet polite angry man when he joined the Dodgers. And White Nationalists will be able to do this about the time they stop using provocative terms that pointlessly alienate the rest of America.

Or maybe not. Maybe the Democrats will be so desperate that they will take in rude White Nationalists. Maybe they will reject all open White Nationalists and develop an in-house collection of such politicians who sell their White Nationalism encoded so as to not provoke their old black and Jewish allies?

But the one thing that is abundantly clear if one looks at the unstoppable trends and their probable impacts; the Democrats will lose elections by the butt load if they cannot compete once again for the lower class White worker. Since such a failure will destroy the patronage system of distribution of government spoils if the Dems are not in power to do so, and that means the end of the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party will make this shift.

And as the Democratic Party's magnetic poles realign, will the Republicans take advantage of it? If the GOP continues its opposition to all forms of socialism or bust, then it will prolong the process of change politically in the Democratic Party, but also stoke the flames that heat the growing explosion of Middle Class resentment that will one day soon bring us a new third party that will sweep one or both of the traditional parties aside if this angry movement fails to recapture the Democratic Party.

My bet is the latter will be the most likely if Trump loses the 2016 election, and the new third party will be a Nordic Socialist third party that will embrace polite White Nationalism that looks to Bernie Sanders as its founding father. And that Socialist Party will dominate American politics for another 60 years like FDRs Democrats did from 1932 to 1994.

But as Democrats begin to see the sea changes taking place beneath them in the 2020 decade, will they adjust and revive, or remain controlled by the Corporate Crony Network and die off?

My bet is that they will adapt to these changes if Trump wins, out of necessity, and become calcified and extinct if Trump loses due to lack of said necessity.

But one way or the other, change is coming, friends.

 

[2aguy]

If this wasn't the CDZ I would have made a joke about the democrats already being the Borg Collective.....hence, already on that level....but since this is the CDZ, I won't....

 

[JimBowie1958]

If this wasn't the CDZ I would have made a joke about the democrats already being the Borg Collective.....hence, already on that level....but since this is the CDZ, I won't....

You know, as you stated that you were not going to make that joke, you kinda went ahead and made it, right?

roflmao

I am hoping against hope that we can have a serious reflective discussion of the topic. The Robotics Revolution is going to have so many impacts on our lives ten years from now AND NO ONE IS DISCUSSING IT.

Maybe its an Aspergers thing, but I just dont get it.

We are heading toward the Mother of all Icebergs and still the band plays on.

BTW, what did you think of the Atlas in the third video? That is like almost right out of "I Robot", isnt it? Notice too, no tether! No power cable needed!

 

[2aguy]

If this wasn't the CDZ I would have made a joke about the democrats already being the Borg Collective.....hence, already on that level....but since this is the CDZ, I won't....

You know, as you stated that you were not going to make that joke, you kinda went ahead and made it, right?

roflmao

I am hoping against hope that we can have a serious reflective discussion of the topic. The Robotics Revolution is going to have so many impacts on our lives ten years from now AND NO ONE IS DISCUSSING IT.

Maybe its an Aspergers thing, but I just dont get it.

We are heading toward the Mother of all Icebergs and still the band plays on.

BTW, what did you think of the Atlas in the third video? That is like almost right out of "I Robot", isnt it?

I apologize for implying democrats are no more than the Borg Collective...that was impolite.......sorry....

 

[JimBowie1958]

If this wasn't the CDZ I would have made a joke about the democrats already being the Borg Collective.....hence, already on that level....but since this is the CDZ, I won't....

You know, as you stated that you were not going to make that joke, you kinda went ahead and made it, right?

roflmao

I am hoping against hope that we can have a serious reflective discussion of the topic. The Robotics Revolution is going to have so many impacts on our lives ten years from now AND NO ONE IS DISCUSSING IT.

Maybe its an Aspergers thing, but I just dont get it.

We are heading toward the Mother of all Icebergs and still the band plays on.

BTW, what did you think of the Atlas in the third video? That is like almost right out of "I Robot", isnt it?

I apologize for implying democrats are no more than the Borg Collective...that was impolite.......sorry....

Lol, but did you look at the third video? Did you continue to read my response after that? What do you think of the second version of the ATLAS?

 

[2aguy]

If this wasn't the CDZ I would have made a joke about the democrats already being the Borg Collective.....hence, already on that level....but since this is the CDZ, I won't....

You know, as you stated that you were not going to make that joke, you kinda went ahead and made it, right?

roflmao

I am hoping against hope that we can have a serious reflective discussion of the topic. The Robotics Revolution is going to have so many impacts on our lives ten years from now AND NO ONE IS DISCUSSING IT.

Maybe its an Aspergers thing, but I just dont get it.

We are heading toward the Mother of all Icebergs and still the band plays on.

BTW, what did you think of the Atlas in the third video? That is like almost right out of "I Robot", isnt it?

I apologize for implying democrats are no more than the Borg Collective...that was impolite.......sorry....

Lol, but did you look at the third video? Did you continue to read my response after that? What do you think of the second version of the ATLAS?

It would have been hysterical if Atlas had stood up, ran over and knocked the guy on his behind for making his job harder.......

 

[320 Years of History]

Advanced AI robots are just around the proverbial corner.

The mobility of such androids would remove about 99% of the advantage human beings will have over robots, most of whom today are stationary on factory assembly lines. The predicted price tag for these robots will be around $1500

The all important question is "when" "Just around the corner" isn't a precise enough temporal measure for this topic. We don't need specificity on the order of a week or day, but within a lustrum, within a decade, within a score of years, give or take is essential to having one of important contextual bases in which one must consider the remarks in your post.

But the detrimental flaw to this system for the Democrats was that as immigrants assimilated into the Middle Class, they tended to go Republican, and the Dems lost voters. The solution had always been to simply link in a new set of ethnic minority immigrants, but there were fewer and fewer new ethnicities coming in from Europe by the 1960s that couldn't go directly into their own ethnic communities and bypass the big city ward bosses.....

So Ted Kennedy pushed changes to our immigration system through Congress and we started taking in more immigrants from outside of Europe. The laws were also changed to make Hispanics a non white ethnicity in the census and in various federal programs. The intent was to create a permanent subclass of workers that would permanently vote Democrat and never assimilate into the American Middle Class.

The remarks above assert a level of deliberacy with regard to means and ends that defies credulity. While the ends you've identified may have come about, the extent to which the Dems or Reps were more than circumstantial and/or serendipitous sires of them is preposterous.

Indeed, the very notions of what you've stated above echoes the tactics, themes and plot lines of modern white racism. Additionally, what you've described is precisely the childish tactic Donald Trump has adopted of late: take whatever recriminations one's opponent levies one's way and say the same thing of them. Who cannot recall the retort of the fat kid in school who defended him-/herself from attackers by uttering, "I'm not fat. You're fat," all the while being unwilling to get on a scale or share objective evidence of their corporeal composition? I think we all can remember something of that general nature.

With each passing year, the Democrats have alienated white voters, especially white male voters, and now the technological-economic Tsunami is about to hit them.

Hit whom? White voters or Democrats?

*POOF* goes the need for black market labor.....So what will the Democratic party do as its permanently poor Hispanic underclass migrates back out of the country?

Excuse me?

• What place has the black market in a legitimate discussion about much of anything other than the black market itself or crime?
• Why should one even be disconcerted about the disappearance of the black market or segments of it?

Red:
Frankly, if one's prospects -- social, economic or both -- are better elsewhere than one perceives them to be in the U.S., Latino or not, one should emigrate and go to that place. That's just exhibiting good economic sense and has nothing to with whether one is of Latino or any other ethnicity.

*POOF* goes the entry level jobs. *

I have news for you: whatever is the job at which a given career begins is the entry level job. Nobody will ever begin their career at the top. You and others may not like that Advanced AI may up the minimum requirements for one to obtain whatever be the entry level jobs of the future, but there will still be entry level jobs. The burden we each have is that of stepping up our skills. It's childishly absurd and pointless to, in the face of progress, decry the passing of a time when less was required of one in order to begin one's career.

Ostriches can apparently do that and achieve some form of satisfaction....

...but for humans, aping their behavior is to no avail. Thus, regardless of how many there be, only birdbrained humans will also do it.

While I seriously doubt that the Democratic Party will go back to Jim Crow, I do think that they will continue the neglect of Jewish and black communities interests, not attacking them, just ignoring them, as they develop strong bonds with White Nationalists

Maybe, but for now, White Nationalists seem to find contentment with the GOP far less so with the Democrat party. Moreover, I don't hear exhortations to nationalism coming from the Democrats whereas I hear it coming from multiple directions within the GOP, not the least of which is from the GOP's nominee.

Maybe the Democrats will be so desperate that they will take in rude White Nationalists. Maybe they will reject all open White Nationalists and develop an in-house collection of such politicians who sell their White Nationalism encoded so as to not provoke their old black and Jewish allies?

I may come to concur with you when I see that happening within the Democratic party. For now, the bulk of those types of folks appear content to be Republican and I have yet to hear the GOP nominee expressly tell them to withhold their support of the GOP because it's not wanted.

But the one thing that is abundantly clear if one looks at the unstoppable trends and their probable impacts; the Democrats will lose elections by the butt load if they cannot compete once again for the lower class White worker.

Given the shifting demographic trends in the U.S., it's hard to imagine how and why that can come to be.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The all important question is "when" "Just around the corner" isn't a precise enough temporal measure for this topic. We don't need specificity on the order of a week or day, but within a lustrum, within a decade, within a score of years, give or take is essential to having one of important contextual bases in which one must consider the remarks in your post.

AS I said elsewhere, within the next five to ten years.

So Ted Kennedy pushed changes to our immigration system through Congress and we started taking in more immigrants from outside of Europe. The laws were also changed to make Hispanics a non white ethnicity in the census and in various federal programs. The intent was to create a permanent subclass of workers that would permanently vote Democrat and never assimilate into the American Middle Class.

The remarks above assert a level of deliberacy with regard to means and ends that defies credulity. While the ends you've identified may have come about, the extent to which the Dems or Reps were more than circumstantial and/or serendipitous sires of them is preposterous.

The Ward Boss system and its exploitation of immigrant communities is not incredulous. It is historical fact.

Indeed, the very notions of what you've stated above echoes the tactics, themes and plot lines of modern white racism.

Oh, so now I am a racist because I 'echo, blah, blah,balh?'

What is your point?

Additionally, what you've described is precisely the childish tactic Donald Trump has adopted of late: take whatever recriminations one's opponent levies one's way and say the same thing of them.

And now I am childish. You Democrats have got to learn to take constructive criticism with a more positive attitude.

With each passing year, the Democrats have alienated white voters, especially white male voters, and now the technological-economic Tsunami is about to hit them.

Hit whom? White voters or Democrats?

Democrats, obviously as these statements are within the context of the DEMOCRATS political future.

*POOF* goes the need for black market labor.....So what will the Democratic party do as its permanently poor Hispanic underclass migrates back out of the country?

Excuse me?

• What place has the black market in a legitimate discussion about much of anything other than the black market itself or crime?
• Why should one even be disconcerted about the disappearance of the black market or segments of it?

Black market labor in the US is still predominately Hispanic, if you didnt know that. But the Dems have been pinning their hopes on the demographic growth of Hispanics in the USA, but moving into the Middle Class will reduce their birthrates much as it has everyone else around the globe that made the same transition.

*POOF* goes the entry level jobs. *

I have news for you: whatever is the job at which a given career begins is the entry level job. Nobody will ever begin their career at the top.

Lol, not hardly. An entry level job is one a person can take with virtually no experience and relying primarily on what they have learned in a classroom, and they will have mentors, in the better businesses that will coach the new hire over the learning curve. That is an entry level job.

You and others may not like that Advanced AI may up the minimum requirements for one to obtain whatever be the entry level jobs of the future, but there will still be entry level jobs. The burden we each have is that of stepping up our skills.

LOL, so it isnt enough that you expect American First World labor to compete with Thrid World serf labor, but now you think regular people should also just suck it up and copmpete with robotic labor too?

roflmao

While I seriously doubt that the Democratic Party will go back to Jim Crow, I do think that they will continue the neglect of Jewish and black communities interests, not attacking them, just ignoring them, as they develop strong bonds with White Nationalists

Maybe, but for now, White Nationalists seem to find contentment with the GOP far less so with the Democrat party. Moreover, I don't hear exhortations to nationalism coming from the Democrats whereas I hear it coming from multiple directions within the GOP, not the least of which is from the GOP's nominee.

While White Nationalists are ethnic nationalists, Trump and the GOP are civic nationalists.. I thought you would know the difference.

Maybe the Democrats will be so desperate that they will take in rude White Nationalists. Maybe they will reject all open White Nationalists and develop an in-house collection of such politicians who sell their White Nationalism encoded so as to not provoke their old black and Jewish allies?

I may come to concur with you when I see that happening within the Democratic party.

Yeah 20/20 hindsight is always spot on, doncha know? What good it is is another matter altogether.

But the one thing that is abundantly clear if one looks at the unstoppable trends and their probable impacts; the Democrats will lose elections by the butt load if they cannot compete once again for the lower class White worker.

Given the shifting demographic trends in the U.S., it's hard to imagine how and why that can come to be.

Why do you suppose that Hispanics wont slow their fertility rate as they move into the Middle Class like the Italians, Irish, etc did when they moved up?

You just think that Hispanics cant help themselves and have so many kids because its just in their DNA?

roflmao

 

[320 Years of History]

The Ward Boss system and its exploitation of immigrant communities is not incredulous. It is historical fact.

Historical fact. Yes. Present day reality? Not nearly so much so. That's not to say that some pols won't try to implement "machine" tactics. Consider the following anecdotal discussion of it by Jeffrey Brown, a former Missouri State Senator, from 2013 in which the writer notes that the practice, though not entirely dead wasn't among Obama's political tactics, but was and is increasingly among Republican candidates' tactics.

Last month, Rep. Michele Bachmann announced her decision not to seek a fifth term amid an array of ethics charges, one of which is an allegation that she secretly paid Iowa state Sen. Kent Sorenson for his support during her abortive presidential bid. According to NBC, Bachmann's former chief of staff, Andy Parrish, swore in an affidavit to the Iowa Senate Ethics Committee that Bachmann "knew of and approved" a scheme to funnel $7,500 per month to Sorenson through an allied consulting firm in exchange for his backing, despite Iowa Senate ethics rules barring lawmakers from receiving presidential campaign payments. In his affidavit, Parrish called Bachmann an "outstanding public servant," suggesting he had no axe to grind. Sorenson flatly denies any violation of ethics rules, and says he received money only to cover expenses. While gleeful liberals and dismayed Tea Partiers have mostly overlooked the charge in the wake of her announcement, it may be an important harbinger of future election cycles.

The Obama campaigns -- with Obama's unique profile as the first black presidential nominee -- pushed to cleanse the Democratic Party of "walking-around money" in 2008 and 2012. The Obama braintrust believed that blacks, who historically vote at a lower rate than whites, would be sufficiently motivated to vote in 2008 by Obama's history-making campaign, and in 2012 by the desire to defend the president against right-wing attacks. Put simply, according to one former Obama field general, they didn't think black people should have to be paid to turn black people out to vote for the first black president. Moreover, the Obama ethos was all about metrics: Measure everything, test everything, and fine-tune methods for optimization. The street-money game's undisclosed payments, unverifiable operations, and unrecorded data completely violated that.

The approach led to friction with indignant ground-level operators. "It's our tradition. You don't come to someone's house and change the rules of someone's house. That's just respect," one Philadelphia ward leader told the Los Angeles Times. Another said she couldn't ask organizers to work as unpaid volunteers for the Obama campaign: "There are a lot of poor people here."

But despite the backlash, Obama upset Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary and generated then-record black turnout on the way to a rout of John McCain in the general election. (Obama would break his own record in 2012 when, for the first time in history, black turnout exceeded white turnout rates.) If Obama's strategists thought that his presence in the White House would have a similar impact in the 2010 midterm, as the president infamously promised then-Arkansas Rep. Marion Berry, they received a rude awakening when minority turnout plummeted and Republicans swept the U.S. House, flummoxing Obama for much of the following two years.

Given that experience, it's reasonable to expect Democrats to return to the street-money regime in 2014, as operatives grapple with the difficulty of replicating the Obama's turnout operation without additional funds for ground-level efforts. And 2016 may see presidential primary candidates of both parties using similar arrangements -- Democrats greasing urban minority turnout via street players, Republicans courting Tea Party and Christian conservative constituencies through consulting contracts with prominent leaders. A raft of white Democrats will vie for the black votes that helped push Obama to the nomination and ultimately the presidency, and may well resort to walking-around money distributed through preachers and local politicos.

Meanwhile, Republicans may see the blossoming of arrangements like what's alleged against Sorenson, glorified-street money arrangements, especially in early-voting states like Iowa where a state legislative endorsement can deliver an 100 extra votes and victory in a small county. In a Politico-soaked era of local officials who fancy themselves presidential-level operatives, a deluge of low-level politicians will likely hang out shingles as "consultants," a phenomenon national Democrats glimpsed during the 2008 South Carolina primary. Well-funded candidates from both parties will be sorely tempted to make these payments, which in an age of media saturation and fragmentation might just yield more votes per dollar than yet another television ad.
​

Oh, so now I am a racist because I 'echo, blah, blah,balh?'

What is your point?

And now I am childish. You Democrats have got to learn to take constructive criticism with a more positive attitude.

Whatever are my points, asserting and proving that you are a racist isn't among them, at least not presently nor when I wrote the comments that led you to infer that and childishness on your part were among the points I was making. Had they been among my points, I'd have stated so clearly and proceeded to support the assertions with specific points of fact and/or well developed inductive arguments. I don't know why you felt the need to internalize that remark, but clearly did feel obliged to do so.

Black market labor in the US is still predominately Hispanic, if you didnt know that. But the Dems have been pinning their hopes on the demographic growth of Hispanics in the USA, but moving into the Middle Class will reduce their birthrates much as it has everyone else around the globe that made the same transition.

Lol, not hardly. An entry level job is one a person can take with virtually no experience and relying primarily on what they have learned in a classroom, and they will have mentors, in the better businesses that will coach the new hire over the learning curve. That is an entry level job.

Okay, sure. That's another way of describing an entry level job; however, all that's happening is that the qualifications for getting one is increasing. That's what has gone on for years...it's merely the bar being raised. That doesn't disturb me; it means individuals must up their game to remain competitive or enter labor markets where the competition for entry level jobs is not as tough.

LOL, so it isnt enough that you expect American First World labor to compete with Thrid World serf labor, but now you think regular people should also just suck it up and copmpete with robotic labor too?

roflmao

If it comes to that, yes. I have never attested to not being something of a Social Darwinist. Obviously I can't be entirely Darwinist because unlike species, the "less fit" flavor of humans don't become extinct. Instead, they "bitch and moan" about what they can't do, presenting it as though someone else has prevented them from doing it, rather than getting off their duff and doing what they must do to improve their competitive position.

While White Nationalists are ethnic nationalists, Trump and the GOP are civic nationalists.. I thought you would know the difference.

I do know the difference. Unfortunately the differences aren't mutually exclusive. One can be both a civic and ethnic nationalist, which is what I see Trump and his cabal within the GOP as being.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The Ward Boss system and its exploitation of immigrant communities is not incredulous. It is historical fact.

Historical fact. Yes. Present day reality? Not nearly so much so. That's not to say that some pols won't try to implement "machine" tactics.

The old Ward Politics has been updated into the Identity Politics Movement. This IPM is merely Ward Politics expanded outside of the physical wards.

Instead of physically moving ethnic minorities into a physical location, the Democrats, and to some extent Republicans as well, are advocating stringing ethnic groups into winning coalitions of voting blocks, with specialized advertising campaigns to link them all together, and then tethered with political favors, targeted pork allocations and promises to address issues that are particularly important to them. Ward Politics without the wards, and instead of greasy old Ward Bosses, you have Al Sharpton, MECHA and The Vagina Candidate.

The only ethnic group banned from this system of politics are white people, and in the guise of giving white people a seat at the political pork table we may see closet Jacki Robinsonized White Nationalists brought into the system to compete for white working class votes in the near future.

Trump is going the broader route and putting together a set of issues that appeals to all groups within the US, as we all want good schools for our kids, secure borders, terrorism and crime to be suppressed effectively, lower taxes, etc. This has a very good success rate in a scenario where the IPM groups have felt lied to and promises have not been kept and in which a large number feel that the entire nation might be destroyed if more group coalition politics continues on in times of crisis.

Lol, not hardly. An entry level job is one a person can take with virtually no experience and relying primarily on what they have learned in a classroom, and they will have mentors, in the better businesses that will coach the new hire over the learning curve. That is an entry level job.

Okay, sure. That's another way of describing an entry level job; however, all that's happening is that the qualifications for getting one is increasing.

That *is* an entry level job, and what you are talking about for people is not practical, at least not until we have tech that can modify us into Super Humans.

There are plenty of reasons that even the best and brightest coming out of college had to start with these entry level jobs and it wasnt just that these were the lowest rung jobs. It was because people can only learn so much through books and have to gain some basic EXPERIENCE first to handle more complex and challenging tasks later. This is what an entry level job provides the new employee, not merely a first rung.

LOL, so it isnt enough that you expect American First World labor to compete with Thrid World serf labor, but now you think regular people should also just suck it up and copmpete with robotic labor too?

roflmao

If it comes to that, yes.

It may come as a shock to you but First World workers will never be able to compete with migrant Third World labor that can take much lower pay and still live very comfortable lives in their home countries that have much lower costs of living. And expecting human beings to directly compete with Robotic labor that is tireless, works without sleep or any other kind of break and would cost around $1500 each is simply another way of saying 'Let them eat cake.'

How is it that people like yourself become so inured to the suffering of those lesser fortunate around you?

Could you really drive your car by a starving family standing on the side of a road, knowing that they need help or they will die?

If not, then why cant we help these people in the aggregate? And if you can just let them die, then what is the point of discussing the topic if you are fine with millions of people starving to death? Just know this, that an unhealthy population of starving people also means higher crime rates, the spread of disease via weakened immune systems of entire demographic groups and greater corruption in the society and legal system.

While White Nationalists are ethnic nationalists, Trump and the GOP are civic nationalists.. I thought you would know the difference.

I do know the difference. Unfortunately the differences aren't mutually exclusive. One can be both a civic and ethnic nationalist, which is what I see Trump and his cabal within the GOP as being.

A kabal requires a degree of secrecy and reticence that Trump is not capable of, so I do not regard you scenario as viable.

And Ethnic Nationalism is by definition contrary to Civic Nationalism as the prior bases the national vision of what makes one a citizen on ones ethnic heritage, while the latter bases it solely on ones circumstances at birth and naturalization, thus it is based on civic qualifications and not ethnicity. They are fairly exclusive from each other except by circumstantial practice that evaporates as soon as such a nation becomes cosmopolitan.

 

[320 Years of History]

Ethnic Nationalism is by definition contrary to Civic Nationalism

As a guiding set of ideas at the nation state level, conceivably and sometimes. As an assortment of attitudes an individual can hold/espouse, not necessarily or in some cases not at all.

• CHALLENGING THE CIVIC/ETHNIC AND WEST/EAST DICHOTOMIES IN THE STUDY OF NATIONALISM
  
• The Limits of Nationalism
• Self-Determining Peoples Against the Myth of the Civic Nation

Civic and ethnic nationalism are but ends of a spectrum. As such, there is overlap the instant one moves off the endpoints. The two just aren't binary choices and/or attitudes. Can one or many oversimplify the two to force them into a binary model? Well, of course, one could assert an apple tree is a pear tree too. But doing that would merely make one mistaken given the wealth of consideration on the matter that shows the two are not binarily opposed.

How is it that people like yourself become so inured to the suffering of those lesser fortunate around you?

1. You know I'm not going to answer the leading/loaded question you asked.
2. That's what you think I'm inured to. It's just going to have to be among the things about which you're mistaken.

There are plenty of reasons that even the best and brightest coming out of college had to start with these entry level jobs and it wasnt just that these were the lowest rung jobs.

Let's consider the general types of jobs held by people in a consulting office (keep in mind that my firm is a global consulting firm; our revenue-side staffing/HR needs are managed at the firm level, not the office level; an office can have as many junior personnel as there are senior personnel to groom/mentor them):

• Cost-side jobs -- no "up or out" requirement; there are advancement paths that lead to firm-level roles that transcend a specific office level:
  • Receptionist (1) -- entry level or experienced
  • Storeroom clerk/mail clerk (1) -- entry level or experienced
  • Graphic artist (4) -- entry level or experienced
  • IT support (3) -- entry level or experienced
  • Office manager (1) -- experienced hires/promotes
  • Administrative assistant (8) -- entry level or experienced
  • Hiring coordinator/manager (2) -- experienced hires/promotes
• Revenue-side jobs -- nearly universal "up or out" requirements below the Director level:
  • Consultant -- almost exclusively undergraduate recruits
  • Senior Consultant -- experienced hires or graduate recruits
  • Managing Consultant -- experienced hires and internal promotes
  • Senior Managing Consultant -- experienced hires and internal promotes
  • Partners -- experienced hires and internal promotes (some aspects of the relationship among partners are "report to" in nature and some are not)
    • Line partners -- sell/deliver services (non-office specific) and manage junior personnel (usually office specific, but doesn't have to be)
    • Office Managing partner -- manage the profitability of an office, sell/deliver services (non-office specific) and manage junior personnel (usually office specific, but doesn't have to be)
    • Senior partners who happen to be attached to the office but who manage various non-office-specific aspects of the business, groom other partners for senior leadership roles, and occasionally sell and manage service delivery, thus their roles are only obliquely specific to the office to which they are attached.
    • Executive partners -- for these partners, an office is just where they are assigned administratively and where their administrative assistant(s) sits.
  • Directors -- experienced hires and internal promotes (cannot bind the firm outside of special situations, but otherwise pretty much the same as partners in terms of skills and abilities; as non-owners, they are strictly subordinate to partners, but they aren't viewed/treated that way other than in matters that pertain to binding the firm, e.g., they can't officially hire folks, but their input about potential hires carries equal weight with that of partners, sometimes more if the hire in question falls into their "wheelhouse;" they cannot initiate or terminate an engagement contract)

Now is the administrative assistant role a "lower rung" job than is consultant? No. It's a different role. Indeed, the consultant has no authority over any of the cost-side employees, even though those employees are there to facilitate the consultant's (and other revenue-side workers') job performance.

Of the jobs noted above, the emboldened ones all have entry level opportunities. The requirements for entry level consultants tends to increase gradually in terms of the breadth of skills/knowledge areas and collegiate performance level we demand from undergrads. Can we replace them with robots? Not at all because the firm needs partners and I can't "groom" a robot into a partner who will innovate ways to expand the business, who will deliver the right message the right way to grow the skills of junior consultant.

Now of the cost-side entry level jobs, I frankly don't see any of them, except perhaps the storeroom/mail clerk job, being replaced by robots, but even that role is very difficult to replace with a robot. The reason is that even the mail clerk performs tasks that are unspecified in nature. Sure, their main job is to order supplies and deliver the mail, but they also fill in on the receptionist's desk and assist with various other administrative tasks. The same is so for all the other administrative personnel. How is a robot going to "get" the artistic traits that work for "this" task, but that are suboptimal for "that" one?

There are plenty of reasons that even the best and brightest coming out of college had to start with these entry level jobs and it wasnt just that these were the lowest rung jobs. It was because people can only learn so much through books and have to gain some basic EXPERIENCE first to handle more complex and challenging tasks later. This is what an entry level job provides the new employee, not merely a first rung.

Agreed, but we can't program robots to handle every single vagary of human nature, which is what all human workers must, at one point or another, do and do well. I find it hard to imagine that a robot can ever anticipate what a given individual or situation is going to require/want "most of the time, but not this time" which again is what everyone must at one point or many points must do. Robots are very good at doing the same thing over and over, but they are lousy at doing something entirely new.

That the scope of "same things" has been expanding is, I think, the driver to your concerns about advanced AI, but even there, there is a limit, at least for now. I mean really...Even "Mr. Data" has limits to what he can do well in a human world. And we are nowhere near having even just one "Mr. Data" android doing the work of anyone, let alone ubiquitous instance of "Mr. Data" doing the work formerly done by millions of folks.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Hah, great post, but it is my wifes birthday today, so I wont be able to get back to you probably till manyana.

Ethnic Nationalism is by definition contrary to Civic Nationalism

As a guiding set of ideas at the nation state level, conceivably and sometimes. As an assortment of attitudes an individual can hold/espouse, not necessarily or in some cases not at all.

• CHALLENGING THE CIVIC/ETHNIC AND WEST/EAST DICHOTOMIES IN THE STUDY OF NATIONALISM
  
• The Limits of Nationalism
• Self-Determining Peoples Against the Myth of the Civic Nation

Civic and ethnic nationalism are but ends of a spectrum. As such, there is overlap the instant one moves off the endpoints. The two just aren't binary choices and/or attitudes. Can one or many oversimplify the two to force them into a binary model? Well, of course, one could assert an apple tree is a pear tree too. But doing that would merely make one mistaken given the wealth of consideration on the matter that shows the two are not binarily opposed.

How is it that people like yourself become so inured to the suffering of those lesser fortunate around you?

1. You know I'm not going to answer the leading/loaded question you asked.
2. That's what you think I'm inured to. It's just going to have to be among the things about which you're mistaken.

There are plenty of reasons that even the best and brightest coming out of college had to start with these entry level jobs and it wasnt just that these were the lowest rung jobs.

Let's consider the general types of jobs held by people in a consulting office (keep in mind that my firm is a global consulting firm; our revenue-side staffing/HR needs are managed at the firm level, not the office level; an office can have as many junior personnel as there are senior personnel to groom/mentor them):

• Cost-side jobs -- no "up or out" requirement; there are advancement paths that lead to firm-level roles that transcend a specific office level:
  • Receptionist (1) -- entry level or experienced
  • Storeroom clerk/mail clerk (1) -- entry level or experienced
  • Graphic artist (4) -- entry level or experienced
  • IT support (3) -- entry level or experienced
  • Office manager (1) -- experienced hires/promotes
  • Administrative assistant (8) -- entry level or experienced
  • Hiring coordinator/manager (2) -- experienced hires/promotes
• Revenue-side jobs -- nearly universal "up or out" requirements below the Director level:
  • Consultant -- almost exclusively undergraduate recruits
  • Senior Consultant -- experienced hires or graduate recruits
  • Managing Consultant -- experienced hires and internal promotes
  • Senior Managing Consultant -- experienced hires and internal promotes
  • Partners -- experienced hires and internal promotes (some aspects of the relationship among partners are "report to" in nature and some are not)
    • Line partners -- sell/deliver services (non-office specific) and manage junior personnel (usually office specific, but doesn't have to be)
    • Office Managing partner -- manage the profitability of an office, sell/deliver services (non-office specific) and manage junior personnel (usually office specific, but doesn't have to be)
    • Senior partners who happen to be attached to the office but who manage various non-office-specific aspects of the business, groom other partners for senior leadership roles, and occasionally sell and manage service delivery, thus their roles are only obliquely specific to the office to which they are attached.
    • Executive partners -- for these partners, an office is just where they are assigned administratively and where their administrative assistant(s) sits.
  • Directors -- experienced hires and internal promotes (cannot bind the firm outside of special situations, but otherwise pretty much the same as partners in terms of skills and abilities; as non-owners, they are strictly subordinate to partners, but they aren't viewed/treated that way other than in matters that pertain to binding the firm, e.g., they can't officially hire folks, but their input about potential hires carries equal weight with that of partners, sometimes more if the hire in question falls into their "wheelhouse;" they cannot initiate or terminate an engagement contract)

Now is the administrative assistant role a "lower rung" job than is consultant? No. It's a different role. Indeed, the consultant has no authority over any of the cost-side employees, even though those employees are there to facilitate the consultant's (and other revenue-side workers') job performance.

Of the jobs noted above, the emboldened ones all have entry level opportunities. The requirements for entry level consultants tends to increase gradually in terms of the breadth of skills/knowledge areas and collegiate performance level we demand from undergrads. Can we replace them with robots? Not at all because the firm needs partners and I can't "groom" a robot into a partner who will innovate ways to expand the business, who will deliver the right message the right way to grow the skills of junior consultant.

Now of the cost-side entry level jobs, I frankly don't see any of them, except perhaps the storeroom/mail clerk job, being replaced by robots, but even that role is very difficult to replace with a robot. The reason is that even the mail clerk performs tasks that are unspecified in nature. Sure, their main job is to order supplies and deliver the mail, but they also fill in on the receptionist's desk and assist with various other administrative tasks. The same is so for all the other administrative personnel. How is a robot going to "get" the artistic traits that work for "this" task, but that are suboptimal for "that" one?

There are plenty of reasons that even the best and brightest coming out of college had to start with these entry level jobs and it wasnt just that these were the lowest rung jobs. It was because people can only learn so much through books and have to gain some basic EXPERIENCE first to handle more complex and challenging tasks later. This is what an entry level job provides the new employee, not merely a first rung.

Agreed, but we can't program robots to handle every single vagary of human nature, which is what all human workers must, at one point or another, do and do well. I find it hard to imagine that a robot can ever anticipate what a given individual or situation is going to require/want "most of the time, but not this time" which again is what everyone must at one point or many points must do. Robots are very good at doing the same thing over and over, but they are lousy at doing something entirely new.

That the scope of "same things" has been expanding is, I think, the driver to your concerns about advanced AI, but even there, there is a limit, at least for now. I mean really...Even "Mr. Data" has limits to what he can do well in a human world. And we are nowhere near having even just one "Mr. Data" android doing the work of anyone, let alone ubiquitous instance of "Mr. Data" doing the work formerly done by millions of folks.

 

[320 Years of History]

Hah, great post, but it is my wifes birthday today, so I wont be able to get back to you probably till manyana.

Ethnic Nationalism is by definition contrary to Civic Nationalism

As a guiding set of ideas at the nation state level, conceivably and sometimes. As an assortment of attitudes an individual can hold/espouse, not necessarily or in some cases not at all.

• CHALLENGING THE CIVIC/ETHNIC AND WEST/EAST DICHOTOMIES IN THE STUDY OF NATIONALISM
  
• The Limits of Nationalism
• Self-Determining Peoples Against the Myth of the Civic Nation

Civic and ethnic nationalism are but ends of a spectrum. As such, there is overlap the instant one moves off the endpoints. The two just aren't binary choices and/or attitudes. Can one or many oversimplify the two to force them into a binary model? Well, of course, one could assert an apple tree is a pear tree too. But doing that would merely make one mistaken given the wealth of consideration on the matter that shows the two are not binarily opposed.

How is it that people like yourself become so inured to the suffering of those lesser fortunate around you?

1. You know I'm not going to answer the leading/loaded question you asked.
2. That's what you think I'm inured to. It's just going to have to be among the things about which you're mistaken.

There are plenty of reasons that even the best and brightest coming out of college had to start with these entry level jobs and it wasnt just that these were the lowest rung jobs.

Let's consider the general types of jobs held by people in a consulting office (keep in mind that my firm is a global consulting firm; our revenue-side staffing/HR needs are managed at the firm level, not the office level; an office can have as many junior personnel as there are senior personnel to groom/mentor them):

• Cost-side jobs -- no "up or out" requirement; there are advancement paths that lead to firm-level roles that transcend a specific office level:
  • Receptionist (1) -- entry level or experienced
  • Storeroom clerk/mail clerk (1) -- entry level or experienced
  • Graphic artist (4) -- entry level or experienced
  • IT support (3) -- entry level or experienced
  • Office manager (1) -- experienced hires/promotes
  • Administrative assistant (8) -- entry level or experienced
  • Hiring coordinator/manager (2) -- experienced hires/promotes
• Revenue-side jobs -- nearly universal "up or out" requirements below the Director level:
  • Consultant -- almost exclusively undergraduate recruits
  • Senior Consultant -- experienced hires or graduate recruits
  • Managing Consultant -- experienced hires and internal promotes
  • Senior Managing Consultant -- experienced hires and internal promotes
  • Partners -- experienced hires and internal promotes (some aspects of the relationship among partners are "report to" in nature and some are not)
    • Line partners -- sell/deliver services (non-office specific) and manage junior personnel (usually office specific, but doesn't have to be)
    • Office Managing partner -- manage the profitability of an office, sell/deliver services (non-office specific) and manage junior personnel (usually office specific, but doesn't have to be)
    • Senior partners who happen to be attached to the office but who manage various non-office-specific aspects of the business, groom other partners for senior leadership roles, and occasionally sell and manage service delivery, thus their roles are only obliquely specific to the office to which they are attached.
    • Executive partners -- for these partners, an office is just where they are assigned administratively and where their administrative assistant(s) sits.
  • Directors -- experienced hires and internal promotes (cannot bind the firm outside of special situations, but otherwise pretty much the same as partners in terms of skills and abilities; as non-owners, they are strictly subordinate to partners, but they aren't viewed/treated that way other than in matters that pertain to binding the firm, e.g., they can't officially hire folks, but their input about potential hires carries equal weight with that of partners, sometimes more if the hire in question falls into their "wheelhouse;" they cannot initiate or terminate an engagement contract)

Now is the administrative assistant role a "lower rung" job than is consultant? No. It's a different role. Indeed, the consultant has no authority over any of the cost-side employees, even though those employees are there to facilitate the consultant's (and other revenue-side workers') job performance.

Of the jobs noted above, the emboldened ones all have entry level opportunities. The requirements for entry level consultants tends to increase gradually in terms of the breadth of skills/knowledge areas and collegiate performance level we demand from undergrads. Can we replace them with robots? Not at all because the firm needs partners and I can't "groom" a robot into a partner who will innovate ways to expand the business, who will deliver the right message the right way to grow the skills of junior consultant.

Now of the cost-side entry level jobs, I frankly don't see any of them, except perhaps the storeroom/mail clerk job, being replaced by robots, but even that role is very difficult to replace with a robot. The reason is that even the mail clerk performs tasks that are unspecified in nature. Sure, their main job is to order supplies and deliver the mail, but they also fill in on the receptionist's desk and assist with various other administrative tasks. The same is so for all the other administrative personnel. How is a robot going to "get" the artistic traits that work for "this" task, but that are suboptimal for "that" one?

There are plenty of reasons that even the best and brightest coming out of college had to start with these entry level jobs and it wasnt just that these were the lowest rung jobs. It was because people can only learn so much through books and have to gain some basic EXPERIENCE first to handle more complex and challenging tasks later. This is what an entry level job provides the new employee, not merely a first rung.

Agreed, but we can't program robots to handle every single vagary of human nature, which is what all human workers must, at one point or another, do and do well. I find it hard to imagine that a robot can ever anticipate what a given individual or situation is going to require/want "most of the time, but not this time" which again is what everyone must at one point or many points must do. Robots are very good at doing the same thing over and over, but they are lousy at doing something entirely new.

That the scope of "same things" has been expanding is, I think, the driver to your concerns about advanced AI, but even there, there is a limit, at least for now. I mean really...Even "Mr. Data" has limits to what he can do well in a human world. And we are nowhere near having even just one "Mr. Data" android doing the work of anyone, let alone ubiquitous instance of "Mr. Data" doing the work formerly done by millions of folks.

NP. Have a good time.

 

[JimBowie1958]

NP. Have a good time.

Thanks, still waiting on her and the kids.....the story of my life, lol.

 

[alang1216]

I am hoping against hope that we can have a serious reflective discussion of the topic. The Robotics Revolution is going to have so many impacts on our lives ten years from now AND NO ONE IS DISCUSSING IT.

I don't doubt that the Robotics Revolution will have a major impact but plenty of other technologies have had their impacts and the world hasn't ended. Neither has the Dems. Sounds like your wishful thinking to me.

What you say certainly could happen but the opposite could also happen. As the Robotics Revolution and AI in general advances many jobs will disappear but new ones will take their place and the wealth of society will continue to grow. Currently there is a huge disparity between the poorest and the wealthiest, encouraged by the GOP. There might be a tipping point where society collectively decides that wealth should be more equitably distributed. A Bernie/Dem platform and it has shown it's popularity. The GOP may continue to be party of wealthy whites but that is a shrinking demographic and may spell the end of the GOP. Should that happen the Dems might split into a centrist and more leftist party.

 

[HUGGY]

How Will the Robotics Revolution Impact the Democratic Party?

When robots learn how to vote, we are all screwed!

 

[JimBowie1958]

I am hoping against hope that we can have a serious reflective discussion of the topic. The Robotics Revolution is going to have so many impacts on our lives ten years from now AND NO ONE IS DISCUSSING IT.

I don't doubt that the Robotics Revolution will have a major impact but plenty of other technologies have had their impacts and the world hasn't ended. Neither has the Dems. Sounds like your wishful thinking to me.

What you say certainly could happen but the opposite could also happen. As the Robotics Revolution and AI in general advances many jobs will disappear but new ones will take their place and the wealth of society will continue to grow. Currently there is a huge disparity between the poorest and the wealthiest, encouraged by the GOP. There might be a tipping point where society collectively decides that wealth should be more equitably distributed. A Bernie/Dem platform and it has shown it's popularity. The GOP may continue to be party of wealthy whites but that is a shrinking demographic and may spell the end of the GOP. Should that happen the Dems might split into a centrist and more leftist party.

Since the robots will be able to build themselves, program themselves, enhance themselves, repair themselves, install themselves and replace themselves, where is the new job creation in all that?

We have never had a new technology that could be HUMAN LIKE INTELLIGENT, and that is the critical difference.

 

[alang1216]

How Will the Robotics Revolution Impact the Democratic Party?

When robots learn how to vote, we are all screwed!

or saved

 

[JimBowie1958]

How Will the Robotics Revolution Impact the Democratic Party?

When robots learn how to vote, we are all screwed!

Yes, quite literally, and here I am, a Republican leaning independent trying to give you dudes a heads up, but shame on me I guess.

 

[JimBowie1958]

How Will the Robotics Revolution Impact the Democratic Party?

When robots learn how to vote, we are all screwed!

or saved

Lol, if losing your job, your career, you ability to pay your mortgage, put your kids through school, pay off other debts and retire are a form of being 'saved', then I would hate to see a running start kick to the balls.