CDZ How to go on from here.

[TemplarKormac]

What isn’t good is how politicized this has become...to the point where we believe pundits and politicians over infectious disease experts.

At some point, your survival will compel you to ignore the disease experts and feed your family.

 

[Coyote]

I don’t think it is a plot.

Why? Because everyone has something to lose here.

Interesting. Both you and CC took me out of context. Again. I am beginning to think this is intentional.

When one purposefully leaves out the positive results (the survival rate of COVID-19) and stresses the negative (how many have it, how many died from it), that within itself is a plot. A ploy. To keep the masses huddled in fear, to do your political bidding. Fear has been an effective governing tool though the ages.

Or perhaps we just misunderstood your point.

Is it?
Another poster made a relevant point with the Vietnam war.
When people talk about the Holocaust, they talk about the number of people who died, not who survived.
When people talk about the 1918 flu epidemic, they talk about the number of people who died, not who survived.
When people talked about H1N1 they talked about the death rate.
When people talked about SARS they talked about the death rate.
When people talked about Zika, they talked about the number of babies born affected, not normal.
When people talk about the war in Afghanistan, they refer to the number killed. Not the number who survived.
When people talk about the flu - they refer to the mortality rate, not the survival rate.
In fact - the only time I hear survival rates mentioned over death rates is when people talk about cancer.

So...I guess...WHY is it a ploy when it comes to Covid but not all these other things?

 

[Coyote]

What isn’t good is how politicized this has become...to the point where we believe pundits and politicians over infectious disease experts.

At some point, your survival will compel you to ignore the disease experts and feed your family.

Yes. But at least will do so having the best possible information and choosing the least riskiest way of doing it.

Would you rather make a choice with good information or bad information?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Now, if this weren't a plot, why do we have elected officials trying to stand in the way, and in some cases jailing those who are attempting to resume their trade? This crisis enhances their power. Power they would soon rather keep than relinquish.

 

[Coyote]

We know the survival rate by the death rate and vice versa.

Do we?

How come it isn't being mentioned more?

Frankly, that is an age old question, not a new one.

 

[TemplarKormac]

When people talk about the Holocaust, they talk about the number of people who died, not who survived.
When people talk about the 1918 flu epidemic, they talk about the number of people who died, not who survived.
When people talked about H1N1 they talked about the death rate.
When people talked about SARS they talked about the death rate.
When people talked about Zika, they talked about the number of babies born affected, not normal.
When people talk about the war in Afghanistan, they refer to the number killed. Not the number who survived.

My point exactly. To instill fear you talk about the most negative aspects of a crisis. Never the positive. Some statistics are left out on purpose to push a narrative.

 

[TemplarKormac]

When people talk about the war in Afghanistan, they refer to the number killed. Not the number who survived.

Then why do we rejoice for those who survive?

 

[Coyote]

Now, if this weren't a plot, why do we have elected officials trying to stand in the way, and in some cases jailing those who are attempting to resume their trade? This crisis enhances their power. Power they would soon rather keep than relinquish.

Because not everything is a "plot".

Elected officials (and that includes both colors) - are also tasked with public safety. That's why traffic laws are enforced. That's why smoking bans in public spaces are enforced. When people break them, then they are subject to whatever the penalties are. The only difference in this case is that it is temporary and more devastating.

I think it is too soon to make the claim that this is a power grab. Wait and see what happens as they reopen. It's in NO ONE's best interest to maintain a strict closure. I think the panic being sowed here is not that of the virus but that of an out of control government.

 

[Coyote]

When people talk about the Holocaust, they talk about the number of people who died, not who survived.
When people talk about the 1918 flu epidemic, they talk about the number of people who died, not who survived.
When people talked about H1N1 they talked about the death rate.
When people talked about SARS they talked about the death rate.
When people talked about Zika, they talked about the number of babies born affected, not normal.
When people talk about the war in Afghanistan, they refer to the number killed. Not the number who survived.

My point exactly. To instill fear you talk about the most negative aspects of a crisis. Never the positive. Some statistics are left out on purpose to push a narrative.

In general - I agree with you on statistics. Everyone has an agenda and they pick and choose how to make statistics support it.

But if you are making that claim about Covid, then you would need to apply it to all those other examples I gave in order to be consistent or show how Covid is being treated uniquely different than those other examples.

It might be that is just the way people tend to think.

 

[TemplarKormac]

In fact - the only time I hear survival rates mentioned over death rates is when people talk about cancer.

Because cancer is a far more fatal disease than COVID-19 will ever be. You will always have a better chance (by orders of magnitude) of surviving the virus than you will late-stage cancer. But why don't we hear that? There are those who would have us be more interested in the chaos this virus brings rather than the implements being used to restore order.

 

[Coyote]

When people talk about the war in Afghanistan, they refer to the number killed. Not the number who survived.

Then why do we rejoice for those who survive?

That's a bit of a non-sequitur. What does rejoicing in those who survive have to do with the fact that when we report on the war, we typically refer to the number killed, not the number who survived.

We rejoice for all sorts of survivors. Like those who survived rape. But when we talk about numbers - we refer to the number of rapes.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Elected officials (and that includes both colors) - are also tasked with public safety.

Of course. But how long can you sacrifice your prosperity to maintain safety? At some point, one will begin to outweigh the other in priority.

If I cannot go out and do my job because of these draconian measures being enforced, I cannot feed myself, I cannot house myself, I cannot pay for the things that are essential to my sustenance. When my wellbeing is affected by a lack of basic needs, that within itself becomes an issue of safety. At that point, I couldn't care less about what those elected officials have to say.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What does rejoicing in those who survive have to do with the fact that when we report on the war, we typically refer to the number killed, not the number who survived.

Because we are more focused on the detriments and not the benefits.

 

[Coyote]

In fact - the only time I hear survival rates mentioned over death rates is when people talk about cancer.

Because cancer is a far more fatal disease than COVID-19 will ever be. You will always have a better chance (by orders of magnitude) of surviving the virus than you will late-stage cancer. But why don't we hear that? There are those who would have us be more interested in the chaos this virus brings rather than the implements being used to restore order.

You're already adjusting the goalposts.

But why don't we hear about survival rates for Covid? Same reason we don't for the Holocaust, Vietnam War, Afghan War, MERS, SARS, Flu, Malaria....

I don't know why - but because this cover a wide spectrum of things, my guess it is the way people tend to think.

 

[Coyote]

Elected officials (and that includes both colors) - are also tasked with public safety.

Of course. But how long can you sacrifice your prosperity to maintain safety? At some point, one will begin to outweigh the other in priority.

If I cannot go out and do my job because of these draconian measures being enforced, I cannot feed myself, I cannot house myself, I cannot pay for the things that are essential to my sustenance. When my wellbeing is affected by a lack of basic needs, that within itself becomes an issue of safety.

Agree. And that is the line every elected representative must consider in their decision making as well as every individual business. It's not a sign of some subversive plot or ploy. No one WANTS to remain closed but no one WANTS to have a lot of citizens get sick and/or die either (in a more cynical view - no politician wants to be associated with either economic collapse or a huge virus outbreak).

 

[Coyote]

What does rejoicing in those who survive have to do with the fact that when we report on the war, we typically refer to the number killed, not the number who survived.

Because we are more focused on the detriments and not the benefits.

Human nature.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You're already adjusting the goalposts.

You're splitting hairs.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What does rejoicing in those who survive have to do with the fact that when we report on the war, we typically refer to the number killed, not the number who survived.

Because we are more focused on the detriments and not the benefits.

Human nature.

We are intelligent enough as a species to overcome our nature.

 

[Coyote]

What does rejoicing in those who survive have to do with the fact that when we report on the war, we typically refer to the number killed, not the number who survived.

Because we are more focused on the detriments and not the benefits.

Human nature.

We are intelligent enough as a species to overcome our nature.

Debatable (sez the cynical me)

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Fine...leftist stay home and collect their free money.
But I dont want to hear any bitching when they find they've been replaced with people who want to work and the free money has run its course.