How to Fix the Phony Budget Crisis

[georgephillip]

Finally, I suspect what you call "charity" I would label "equality."

And we get to the essence of it.

Equality as defined by????

Charity: Giving someone a gift from their own free will. Government by definition cannot do charity for they have nothing of their own except what they take from the governed.

Then you get the fun of WHO decides what is equal. Who deserves what.

See, this is then the failing of all collectivist ideology. Someone other than the individual decides for them what they deserve. Someone else says when you need, how you need, and what you need.

The problem with 'laying down metrics' is that everyone involved in policy is trying to cover up their responsibility in it. That is why a third party needs to set the 'metrics' and expose the responsible parties AND offer unbiased solutions.

The essence of the charity displayed by government (Republican and Democrat) toward the richest 1% of the population over the last thirty years can't be characterized as a gift freely given by the poorest 90% of Americans.

Yet the poorest 90% of Americans earn on average $280 more every year than they did when Reagan was sworn in while the size of the US economy doubled since that time.

Who got the damn money?

"The richest 1 percent’s share of national (income) has doubled – from around 9 percent in 1977 to over 20 percent now.

"The richest one-tenth of 1 percent’s share has tripled.

"The 150,000 households that comprise the top one-tenth of one percent now earn as much as the bottom 120 million put together.

"Given this explosion of income at the top you might think our tax system would demand a larger share from them. But you’d be wrong. You’re not taking account of the power of the super rich. As income and wealth have risen to the top, so has political power.

"As a result, their taxes have plummeted."

How Democrats Can Become...

For the last thirty years the RICH have decided who is equal.

If they aren't stopped DEAD in their tracks, the next three decades won't be fun for 99% of individual Americans.

 

[georgephillip]

Anyone who thinks the budget crisis in the U.S. is phony is likely the kind of idiot who thinks he still has money in his checking account because he has some blank checks.

Just sayin'.

Anyone claiming the budget crisis is real needs to take off her ideological blinders and explain why private tyrannies and other rich individual parasites are sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars plundered from middle class workers over the last thirty years.

Say WHAT?

 

[Big Fitz]

Finally, I suspect what you call "charity" I would label "equality."

And we get to the essence of it.

Equality as defined by????

Charity: Giving someone a gift from their own free will. Government by definition cannot do charity for they have nothing of their own except what they take from the governed.

Then you get the fun of WHO decides what is equal. Who deserves what.

See, this is then the failing of all collectivist ideology. Someone other than the individual decides for them what they deserve. Someone else says when you need, how you need, and what you need.

The problem with 'laying down metrics' is that everyone involved in policy is trying to cover up their responsibility in it. That is why a third party needs to set the 'metrics' and expose the responsible parties AND offer unbiased solutions.

The essence of the charity displayed by government (Republican and Democrat) toward the richest 1% of the population over the last thirty years can't be characterized as a gift freely given by the poorest 90% of Americans.

Yet the poorest 90% of Americans earn on average $280 more every year than they did when Reagan was sworn in while the size of the US economy doubled since that time.

Who got the damn money?

"The richest 1 percent’s share of national (income) has doubled – from around 9 percent in 1977 to over 20 percent now.

"The richest one-tenth of 1 percent’s share has tripled.

"The 150,000 households that comprise the top one-tenth of one percent now earn as much as the bottom 120 million put together.

"Given this explosion of income at the top you might think our tax system would demand a larger share from them. But you’d be wrong. You’re not taking account of the power of the super rich. As income and wealth have risen to the top, so has political power.

"As a result, their taxes have plummeted."

How Democrats Can Become...

For the last thirty years the RICH have decided who is equal.

If they aren't stopped DEAD in their tracks, the next three decades won't be fun for 99% of individual Americans.

Your envy blocks rational thought.

The essence of the charity displayed by government (Republican and Democrat) toward the richest 1% of the population over the last thirty years can't be characterized as a gift freely given by the poorest 90% of Americans.

Uh huh. And they have the highest tax rate, provide 99% of the jobs, and most of the investment capital which helps make the middle class rich just like them.

Yet the poorest 90% of Americans earn on average $280 more every year than they did when Reagan was sworn in while the size of the US economy doubled since that time.

Let's see. Your numbers smell like poo, but eve considering this, the lower 65% of wage earners get back more than the taxes they paid in. Therefore they get a handout, by dint of government force, taken against the will of those who earn it. Including from those who can barely afford the taxation placed upon them by unfair tax rates to pay for those who do not earn.

Just remember, subsidize it, and you will get more (Poor people). the more you tax it, the less you will get (Rich People).

And while you keep that in mind, ask yourself this; How many jobs and businesses are PROVIDED by the poor directly? that's right... none.

The richest 1 percent’s share of national (income) has doubled – from around 9 percent in 1977 to over 20 percent now.

"The richest one-tenth of 1 percent’s share has tripled.

First, I doubt that data highly.
Second, what does it matter to you? Oh that's right, you're envious and therefore if you can't have it, they shouldn't either.

"The 150,000 households that comprise the top one-tenth of one percent now earn as much as the bottom 120 million put together.

So? Are you saying they stole it from the other 120 million? If so, how'd those 120 million EARN it for it to be stolen?

"Given this explosion of income at the top you might think our tax system would demand a larger share from them. But you’d be wrong. You’re not taking account of the power of the super rich. As income and wealth have risen to the top, so has political power.

Flat out irrelevant. This has been the case since time immemorial, and your displeasure at your own personal lack of power changes nothing except to expose your bitterness to those who are more successful than you. here's a solution, quit your bitching and EARN your own fortune if you can.

"As a result, their taxes have plummeted."

That is because capital is mobile and can move out of the range of your greed and envious grasp.

For the last thirty years the RICH have decided who is equal.

If they aren't stopped DEAD in their tracks, the next three decades won't be fun for 99% of individual Americans.

Well seig heil, mein freund! advocating killing the rich now are we? You a gamer? Cause this smacks of a munchkin screaming 'kill them all and take their shit'!

Stop the rich in their tracks? Fine. So you have now divvied up the spoils of the rich to millions of people who haven't the slightest idea of how to multiply that wealth. Of course... billions divided by millions only equals a few hundred dollars to everyone... how far will that go?

How long will you eat now when your corporations have been looted and cannot function because they cannot pay their employees?

Who will employ you when they cannot even pay for materials to make product?

You preach economic nihilism and cannot see that your path is certain destruction that you are blind to.

 

[georgephillip]

You need to get out of the cold before your last functioning cerebral neuron freezes up.

It's the Inequality, Stupid

Over the last 30 years government has ensured the richest 0.01% of Americans take home about $27 million per year.

This has come at the expense of the bottom 90% of US workers whose average income is about $31,000 per year. (2007)

Please note 2007 data does NOT reflect the housing bubble crash, and the bottom 60% of Americans had 65% of their net worth tied up in their homes while the top 1% had just 10%.

Tax bias in favor of debt over equity financing and tax credits for exporting middle class jobs explain why middle class earners no longer share in national income to the same extent they did immediately following WWII.

Stopping the rich DEAD in their tracks isn't a call for violence.

It is a call to FLUSH as many Republicans AND Democrats from the US Congress (and White House) as possible in November 2012.

 

[Big Fitz]

You need to get out of the cold before your last functioning cerebral neuron freezes up.

It's the Inequality, Stupid

Over the last 30 years government has ensured the richest 0.01% of Americans take home about $27 million per year.

This has come at the expense of the bottom 90% of US workers whose average income is about $31,000 per year. (2007)

Please note 2007 data does NOT reflect the housing bubble crash, and the bottom 60% of Americans had 65% of their net worth tied up in their homes while the top 1% had just 10%.

Tax bias in favor of debt over equity financing and tax credits for exporting middle class jobs explain why middle class earners no longer share in national income to the same extent they did immediately following WWII.

Stopping the rich DEAD in their tracks isn't a call for violence.

It is a call to FLUSH as many Republicans AND Democrats from the US Congress (and White House) as possible in November 2012.

I'm sorry, Mother Jones is a radical socialist propaganda tool, not a source for anything of value. I will not even dignify it with a click.

Inequality of income means NOTHING. You want more? Earn it. But that goes against your default state which is parasitism. You don't want to work and earn, you want to be given wealth for no merit. If you don't receive it freely, you find ways to steal it. By law if possible, and if not by law, by force.

Tax bias in favor of debt over equity financing and tax credits for exporting middle class jobs explain why middle class earners no longer share in national income to the same extent they did immediately following WWII.

So? End the tax credits. Institute a flat tax and end wealth redistribution by the tax code. More money on all levels will be available for investment and growth of personal wealth to all. Not to mention, that will provide more jobs and helps end the indigent class because there 'laziness subsidy' ends.

Stopping the rich DEAD in their tracks isn't a call for violence.

It is a call to FLUSH as many Republicans AND Democrats from the US Congress (and White House) as possible in November 2012.

In one regard you are dead on right. We need to flush congress of 95% of all senators and congressmen in there, and their staffs and all associated bureaucrats, slash the size of government to a FIFTH (excluding most of the military) of it's current size and end ALL social spending that is not constitutionally enumerated, and not covered on the fantasy of the 'good and plenty' clause, or the distorted 'interstate commerce clause', forcing most of the responsibility back on to individuals AND constitutionally viable state and local governance.

You keep what you earn. If you're too lazy, stupid or immoral to earn, you deserve what you get. And this is coming from someone who would be classified as 'working poor'. At least I have the ethics to say 'if I didn't earn it, and it was not given to me by someone else's free will and desire, I don't deserve it.'

 

[GHook93]

Who could expect anything less than pure socialism from a man who professes to working his entire life (65 years) at minimum wage jobs.

Earth to stupid the wealthy already pay what, 60% of the tax dollars and a dumbass like you is telling the people who pay the taxes to leave the country! Liberalism is a mental disorder!

Can you say Norway?

How about Wealth Tax??

"Times are tough. Someone has to pay. Why not start with those who can most afford it?...

"In Norway, for example, you pay one percent of your net worth in addition to income tax.

"What if we imposed a Norwegian-style wealth tax on the top one percent of U.S. households?

"We’re not talking upper middle class here: the poorest among them is worth a mere $8.3 million.

"This top one percent owns 35 percent of all wealth in the United States.

“'Such a wealth tax…would raise $191.1 billion each year (one percent of $19.1 trillion), a significant attack on the deficit,' Leon Friedman writes in The Nation. 'If we extended the tax to the top 5 percent, we could raise $338.5 billion a year (one percent of 62 percent of $54.6 trillion).'”

Tell the rich to pay up or pack up.

 

[JWBooth]

Can you say Norway?

Not with a straight face.


Norway, now there's an economic powerhouse worthy of emulation...
NOT!

 

[mnbasketball]

Wanna know something?

I wouldn't mind all the rhetoric about the rich paying more in taxes if it was not formed in the manner of "blame the rich". "It is all the rich people's fault. Make them pay their fair share."

Turn it around and present it like this, "Hey you wealthy people, we the poor and middle class of the United States of America need your help. We're going to have to raise your taxes because there just is not enough in our coffers left to fix this problem."

I really hate the whining about how terrible rich people are for actually succeeding in life. Which of us wouldn't like to be in their shoes?

Immie

The problem lies here, once you reach the goal f becoming rich is when it gets sticky. The rules of the game and the playing field is highly slanted for those people to use their wealth to an advantage that 80% of the people don't have a chance of doing. And then they use their money to enhance their positions by paying to get elected the people who are rich for the most part who will do what it takes to make sure they stay rich. Not to mention the millions they use to form political hack org that are held to no restriction on what they say and do.

 

[Immanuel]

Wanna know something?

I wouldn't mind all the rhetoric about the rich paying more in taxes if it was not formed in the manner of "blame the rich". "It is all the rich people's fault. Make them pay their fair share."

Turn it around and present it like this, "Hey you wealthy people, we the poor and middle class of the United States of America need your help. We're going to have to raise your taxes because there just is not enough in our coffers left to fix this problem."

I really hate the whining about how terrible rich people are for actually succeeding in life. Which of us wouldn't like to be in their shoes?

Immie

The problem lies here, once you reach the goal f becoming rich is when it gets sticky. The rules of the game and the playing field is highly slanted for those people to use their wealth to an advantage that 80% of the people don't have a chance of doing. And then they use their money to enhance their positions by paying to get elected the people who are rich for the most part who will do what it takes to make sure they stay rich. Not to mention the millions they use to form political hack org that are held to no restriction on what they say and do.

Be satisfied with what you have and you don't have to worry about what the Jones' have. Why the hell should I worry about Bill Gates getting richer and richer as long as I am happy with who I am?

Like I said, I don't care if the tax rates go up for the rich for a reasonable purpose, but my Lord, all the doggone whiners that cry about "the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer" make me want to puke. Early last year, I went from a job paying over $60k a year to unemployment and there is nothing on the horizon for me at the moment not to mention the engine blew on my only car last night. Things have been really tough over the last year. I really don't give a shit that Warren Buffet has so much cash that the only thing he can come up to do with it all is wipe his ass. I'm not asking Warren or Bill for anything, unless they are hiring.

Why the hell should I care if Mr. Buffet can bend the President's ear and grease Senator Boehner's palm. As long as they are not directly hurting me, I really don't see the big deal. I have my own problems to deal with and I sure as hell do not expect sympathy from the rich. I'll deal with my life, let them deal with their own.

Immie

 

[mnbasketball]

If you don't think the rich are benefiting from your demise your stupid. The jobs going over seas and the robots doing mens jobs have left you without work. Have you seen anything that cost less from this happening? Hell NO.

The truth is the top wage earners of corp's have gone from from being 40 times the average workers wage and now is around 100 times the average for all of them, and now is As high as 550 times for those at the top.

The truth is they own the system and it is stacked to keep the rich richer and the main way they can do it is you lose your job and someone else works harder or they ship it to some third world country.

Sooner or later some of you got to wise up and notice that your neighbor isn't your enemy, it's those who want to own this country and are getting a lot of help from guys like you. Some day you might figure it out, they aren't going to provide you with a job unless it benefits them. 200 million people benefiting 1 million and you think they need to be left alone to go after the rest of what America has.

 

[signelect]

This blame it on the evil rich is getting old. I don't have a lot of money because I chose not to save like I should but it is not the fault of Bill Gates or even George Soros. It is my fault. I drive an older car because that is what I can afford. I have owned two companies in my life, one was lost because I was young and stupid, the other because the banks got in trouble in the late 80's and the feds made them call my note, which I paid but then could fund operations. This is life. I think the issue is still that our congressmen and women are for sale or more to the point have already be bought and paid for. Notice that the new laws don't apply to them. You know what we call people who do bad things for money. Prostitutes

 

[LordBrownTrout]

It already hurts to watch our government waste our tax dollars. Government should do without....not the people.

 

[mnbasketball]

you are 100% right siglett, but the real thing is you could try as hard as you wanted, be a saver beyond your dreams as your kids and family do with less, but it's not going to get you to where you can make a living, a very good living off of what your able to save.
It takes the ability to get into the group of positions that can get you there, and most people can't just walk into one of them. The best way to succeed is to go to the best named colleges that get you into the game. Next is to have connections, it don't hurt.

But the game has been tilted to those who can make it to benefit from the laws and rues that are passed which serves their benefit. The average guy works to have a life and that is fine. He's happy with a decent job and enough to pay his bills, feed his family and prepare for his his kids to maybe get a decent education and maybe save a little for retirement. Yet he is the first one to get the ax, the first one that called on to take cuts and most likely never get it back.

I don't care how the rich do either, but they should be under the same kind of a system as the rest of us. A tax deduction should be one that benefits everyone, not just a select group. The tax code is made to help rich people make more money, and the average Joe to survive if hes lucky.

and saying it's just a choice is BS, or everyone would be doing it. The system is rigged to those who have a lot to get more.

 

[Immanuel]

If you don't think the rich are benefiting from your demise your stupid. The jobs going over seas and the robots doing mens jobs have left you without work. Have you seen anything that cost less from this happening? Hell NO.

The truth is the top wage earners of corp's have gone from from being 40 times the average workers wage and now is around 100 times the average for all of them, and now is As high as 550 times for those at the top.

The truth is they own the system and it is stacked to keep the rich richer and the main way they can do it is you lose your job and someone else works harder or they ship it to some third world country.

Sooner or later some of you got to wise up and notice that your neighbor isn't your enemy, it's those who want to own this country and are getting a lot of help from guys like you. Some day you might figure it out, they aren't going to provide you with a job unless it benefits them. 200 million people benefiting 1 million and you think they need to be left alone to go after the rest of what America has.

My demise? Wow!!

My troubles are my own fault and no one else is to blame. No one, period!!

Decisions I made in the past like choosing to get married and raise children and forgo working to get my CPA have put me in the place I am today. Nothing the rich did caused my problems.

The excuses you are trying to give me are nothing more than the lack of personal responsibility.

Immie

 

[konkon]

In stead of punishing people who actually earn money how about punishing those that actively work to destroy the US Dollars' value?

Let's start with the Federal Reserve.

ok, next on the list, George Soros

How long is this list? How about all those speculators?

 

[mnbasketball]

The system is broke, because there isn't enough to go around that people are willing to let leave their control. Not enough chances, not enough money, and a tilted playing field where most are running up hill while the rich are allowed to drive downhill all the way to the bank.

They don't need special rules and special help. They didn't get 85% of everything because the poor were taking advantage of them, or do you really want to argue the basis facts.

Face the fact guys your being used because you must love it, we are being used because we have no power, the rich have it all. There will be a revolt comming when there isn't nothing left for the rich to strive for, and thats only 15% away. Then the attack will go from 15% against 85% to 4% against 96 % for control of all the wealth.

Please explain to anybody how a small group that owns 85% of everything is getting screwed.

 

[georgephillip]

I think you're asking for a rational explanation of greed.

The rich use greed as a virtue.

It seems more logical to view greed as a parasitic disease that self-destructs when it destroys its host.

If it's true the richest 1% of Americans have increased their share of national wealth by nearly two percentage points during the last two years while millions of Americans have lost their jobs and houses, one relatively simple solution to galloping inequality would require voters to FLUSH as many Republicans AND Democrats from DC as possible in November 2012.

Wall Street is a two-headed snake.
Cut them both off at the polls in 2012.

FLUSH the DC Toilet and fire the second shot 'heard round the world.

 

[georgephillip]

You need to get out of the cold before your last functioning cerebral neuron freezes up.

It's the Inequality, Stupid

Over the last 30 years government has ensured the richest 0.01% of Americans take home about $27 million per year.

This has come at the expense of the bottom 90% of US workers whose average income is about $31,000 per year. (2007)

Please note 2007 data does NOT reflect the housing bubble crash, and the bottom 60% of Americans had 65% of their net worth tied up in their homes while the top 1% had just 10%.

Tax bias in favor of debt over equity financing and tax credits for exporting middle class jobs explain why middle class earners no longer share in national income to the same extent they did immediately following WWII.

Stopping the rich DEAD in their tracks isn't a call for violence.

It is a call to FLUSH as many Republicans AND Democrats from the US Congress (and White House) as possible in November 2012.

I'm sorry, Mother Jones is a radical socialist propaganda tool, not a source for anything of value. I will not even dignify it with a click.

Inequality of income means NOTHING. You want more? Earn it. But that goes against your default state which is parasitism. You don't want to work and earn, you want to be given wealth for no merit. If you don't receive it freely, you find ways to steal it. By law if possible, and if not by law, by force.

Tax bias in favor of debt over equity financing and tax credits for exporting middle class jobs explain why middle class earners no longer share in national income to the same extent they did immediately following WWII.

So? End the tax credits. Institute a flat tax and end wealth redistribution by the tax code. More money on all levels will be available for investment and growth of personal wealth to all. Not to mention, that will provide more jobs and helps end the indigent class because there 'laziness subsidy' ends.

Stopping the rich DEAD in their tracks isn't a call for violence.

It is a call to FLUSH as many Republicans AND Democrats from the US Congress (and White House) as possible in November 2012.

In one regard you are dead on right. We need to flush congress of 95% of all senators and congressmen in there, and their staffs and all associated bureaucrats, slash the size of government to a FIFTH (excluding most of the military) of it's current size and end ALL social spending that is not constitutionally enumerated, and not covered on the fantasy of the 'good and plenty' clause, or the distorted 'interstate commerce clause', forcing most of the responsibility back on to individuals AND constitutionally viable state and local governance.

You keep what you earn. If you're too lazy, stupid or immoral to earn, you deserve what you get. And this is coming from someone who would be classified as 'working poor'. At least I have the ethics to say 'if I didn't earn it, and it was not given to me by someone else's free will and desire, I don't deserve it.'

Inequality of income means EVERYTHING when it results from government picking the winners and losers. This is exactly what all governments have done for thousands of years. Socialize the cost (usually through war and private bond markets) and privatize the profits for the richest 10% of society.

Your call for a new tax code sounds reasonable to me, but all elected Republicans AND Democrats depend on the richest 1% of voters to fund their campaigns.

This part is a zero sum game.

Any gains made by the majority will come at the expense of the rich.

Are Democrats OR Republicans likely to assist the majority or those who fund their next election campaigns?

Finally, we seem to agree our federal government is badly bloated; however, I'm wondering why you exempt the Pentagon from cost cuts when it's likely the most bloated and corrupt institution in DC?

 

[Big Fitz]

Inequality of income means EVERYTHING when it results from government picking the winners and losers.

Which is the purpose of communism, collectivism, fascism and every other type of socialist thought. Government chooses. Thank you for debunking your entire premise in one shot.

This is exactly what all governments have done for thousands of years. Socialize the cost (usually through war and private bond markets) and privatize the profits for the richest 10% of society.

Didn't happen in this nation till after the 1930's when the government so distorted the Interstate Commerce Clause that it controlled every aspect of trade.

Your call for a new tax code sounds reasonable to me, but all elected Republicans AND Democrats depend on the richest 1% of voters to fund their campaigns.

Thank SCOTUS in the 1960's when they determined that money = free speech and cannot be kept out of politics completely. Your issue about campaign finance is well noted though. I'd rather have either all funds must be declared, but you can spend all you want, or you can contribute to a fund divided up equally to each candidate and ban all fund raising.

This part is a zero sum game.

False premise, the economy is not a zero sum game. It grows and multiplies with time, labor, modernization and resources.

Any gains made by the majority will come at the expense of the rich.

Highly assumptive with no proof.

Are Democrats OR Republicans likely to assist the majority or those who fund their next election campaigns?

As those who lost in 2010 regardless of how much they spent. Meg Whitman and Carly Fiorina who refused Tea Party help but spent hundreds of millions lost, remember.

Finally, we seem to agree our federal government is badly bloated; however, I'm wondering why you exempt the Pentagon from cost cuts when it's likely the most bloated and corrupt institution in DC?

Because there are few places to cut save overseas bases. In which I fully agree. I'd like an exit strategy from Germany, Japan, Okinawa, Korea and dozens of other bases world wide. Let those guys defend themselves. I am not a Neo-Wilsonian wishing to export and franchise the American way of life world wide like Bush 2 did. We need to end being the world's policeman AND Uncle Sugar doling out trillions of dollars in aid for those who hate us. Let the chips fall where they may overseas and deal with the consequences as they arise.

 

[editec]

Txation is a ZERO sum game IF

1. The government doesn't decrease spending to give tax breaks to one class, while not giving it to another.

How could they possible be otherwise?