How the Founders weighed in on the importance to democracy of virtue.

[MisterBeale]

emotionally frail fantasies as arguments.

Like judging folks from the distant past by the tenets of critical theory, rather than a product of the Enlightenment?

Yeah, we agree.

My family is from Jamaica, moron.

Ahhhhh. . . thus the American hating rhetoric. I get it, my condolences.


Yeah, when nations ruled by monarchs and representative nations came into conflict, those ruled by monarchy were doomed to the sands of history.



. . . and imperialism? Regardless of slick propaganda in the west, and the false rhetoric that our politicians in the west have abandoned imperialism, it has never gone out of fashion for those who rule.


Not for the U.S., not for Europe, not for China, and not for Russia. Not for anyone's rulers.

 

[Curried Goats]

Like judging folks from the distant past by the tenets of critical theory, rather than a product of the Enlightenment?

Yeah, we agree.

Are you attempting a rational argument at me? OK. This should be fun.

All judgements are equally subjective. I'm not telling you you're wrong for loving slavers, I'm just explaining to you that the slavers didn't think some people were people by evidence of them arguing that people were born with inalienable rights while holding other people as property. That's just what they did. Im not telling you how to feel about it, I'm just explaining to you that it happened.

As for your standards of judging people, you're free to choose whatever standards you want. Time isn't a factor at all. Rationally speaking.

Ahhhhh. . . thus the American hating rhetoric. I get it, my condolences.

I don't hate America at all but feel free to make a much of your argument about emotion as you feel like.

Yeah, when nations ruled by monarchs and representative nations came into conflict, those ruled by monarchy were doomed to the sands of history.

I don't even know what you think that means. We're allies with some current existing monarchies.

. . . and imperialism? Regardless of slick propaganda in the west, and the false rhetoric that our politicians in the west have abandoned imperialism, it has never gone out of fashion for those who rule.

Who's propaganda? Progressives talk about American imperialism all the time....

Not for the U.S., not for Europe, not for China, and not for Russia. Not for anyone's rulers.

What was even your point again?

 

[MisterBeale]

Freedom in the context I was describing was freedom from the rule of law. I don't know what freedom you're describing. It sounds like a fairytale notion that doesn't actually exist.

 

[Curried Goats]

I don't know what that's supposed to be and my eyes are too old to squint at it.

 

[MisterBeale]

I don't know what that's supposed to be and my eyes are too old to squint at it.

 

[MisterBeale]

Which is of course, is true.


But what are the realistic options?

 

[Curried Goats]

View attachment 1063399

The Constitution is a tool. The key is the be the one wielding it.

 

[sartre play]

George Washington said: “Virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government,”[6] and “Human rights can only be assured among a virtuous people.”[7]

Benjamin Franklin said: “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.” [8]

James Madison stated: “To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical [imaginary] idea.”[9]

Thomas Jefferson wrote, “No government can continue good but under the control of the people; and … their minds are to be informed by education what is right and what wrong; to be encouraged in habits of virtue and to be deterred from those of vice … These are the inculcations necessary to render the people a sure basis for the structure and order of government.”[10]

Samuel Adams said: “Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue.”[11]

Patrick Henry stated that: “A vitiated [impure] state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom.”[12]
Without Virtue There Can Be No Liberty - Mount Liberty College

It doesn't take much imagination to understand how they would view Stormy Daniels' paramour with the mushroom shaped unit. Or a soon to be sentenced felon. Or someone who famously admitted to grabbing women by the vagina whether they liked it or not. E. Jean Carroll didn't like it.

I could continue for some time but you get the gist. The Founders believed the health of our democracy relied on the participation of virtuous people. Not moral degenerates like Cheeto.

NO one should deny that a strong measure of honesty would be better than a MT of self serving lies.

 

[DonGlock26]

George Washington said: “Virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government,”[6] and “Human rights can only be assured among a virtuous people.”[7]

Benjamin Franklin said: “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.” [8]

James Madison stated: “To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical [imaginary] idea.”[9]

Thomas Jefferson wrote, “No government can continue good but under the control of the people; and … their minds are to be informed by education what is right and what wrong; to be encouraged in habits of virtue and to be deterred from those of vice … These are the inculcations necessary to render the people a sure basis for the structure and order of government.”[10]

Samuel Adams said: “Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue.”[11]

Patrick Henry stated that: “A vitiated [impure] state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom.”[12]
Without Virtue There Can Be No Liberty - Mount Liberty College

It doesn't take much imagination to understand how they would view Stormy Daniels' paramour with the mushroom shaped unit. Or a soon to be sentenced felon. Or someone who famously admitted to grabbing women by the vagina whether they liked it or not. E. Jean Carroll didn't like it.

I could continue for some time but you get the gist. The Founders believed the health of our democracy relied on the participation of virtuous people. Not moral degenerates like Cheeto.

"On October 11, 1798, John Adams wrote to the Massachusetts Militia that

Because We have no Government armed with Power capable of contending with human Passions unbridled by morality and Religion. Avarice, Ambition, Revenge or Gallantry, would break the strongest Cords of our Constitution as a Whale goes through a Net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Our Constitution Was Made Only for a Moral and Religious People - onlinecoursesblog.hillsdale.edu

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

onlinecoursesblog.hillsdale.edu

 

[Man With A Plan]

Mostly the frivolous motions with the goal being to delay legal proceedings and the judge shopping.

You mean the motions that MOST defendants file when they go to court? Judge shopping? Are you kidding? How do you think those cases ended up in those locales? The Democrats wanted them in places where they'd have far left DA's...far left judges and predominantly left leaning juries.

 

[Contumacious]

Virtue to the Founders was something quite different than what I might see as virtuous.

Most had slaves. Jefferson slept with his. Washington took their teeth to make his dentures. Franklin gave advice on taking a mistress.

Thomas Jefferson wrote a lot - identify ONE passage wherein he defended the institution of slavery

Throughout his entire life, Thomas Jefferson was publicly a consistent opponent of slavery. Calling it a “moral depravity”1 and a “hideous blot,”2 he believed that slavery presented the greatest threat to the survival of the new American nation.3 Jefferson also thought that slavery was contrary to the laws of nature, which decreed that everyone had a right to personal liberty.4 These views were radical in a world where unfree labor was the norm.

Thomas Jefferson's Attitudes Toward Slavery

How did Jefferson feel about slavery? What did he say about it, and what did he do about it?

www.monticello.org

 

[IDIOCRACY]

George Washington said: “Virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government,”[6] and “Human rights can only be assured among a virtuous people.”[7]

Benjamin Franklin said: “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.” [8]

James Madison stated: “To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical [imaginary] idea.”[9]

Thomas Jefferson wrote, “No government can continue good but under the control of the people; and … their minds are to be informed by education what is right and what wrong; to be encouraged in habits of virtue and to be deterred from those of vice … These are the inculcations necessary to render the people a sure basis for the structure and order of government.”[10]

Samuel Adams said: “Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue.”[11]

Patrick Henry stated that: “A vitiated [impure] state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom.”[12]
Without Virtue There Can Be No Liberty - Mount Liberty College

It doesn't take much imagination to understand how they would view Stormy Daniels' paramour with the mushroom shaped unit. Or a soon to be sentenced felon. Or someone who famously admitted to grabbing women by the vagina whether they liked it or not. E. Jean Carroll didn't like it.

I could continue for some time but you get the gist. The Founders believed the health of our democracy relied on the participation of virtuous people. Not moral degenerates like Cheeto.

Your pretense is what it is, a lie.

I propose we start addressing Berg as LieBerg

 

[Lastamender]

George Washington said: “Virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government,”[6] and “Human rights can only be assured among a virtuous people.”[7]

Benjamin Franklin said: “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.” [8]

James Madison stated: “To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical [imaginary] idea.”[9]

Thomas Jefferson wrote, “No government can continue good but under the control of the people; and … their minds are to be informed by education what is right and what wrong; to be encouraged in habits of virtue and to be deterred from those of vice … These are the inculcations necessary to render the people a sure basis for the structure and order of government.”[10]

Samuel Adams said: “Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue.”[11]

Patrick Henry stated that: “A vitiated [impure] state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom.”[12]
Without Virtue There Can Be No Liberty - Mount Liberty College

It doesn't take much imagination to understand how they would view Stormy Daniels' paramour with the mushroom shaped unit. Or a soon to be sentenced felon. Or someone who famously admitted to grabbing women by the vagina whether they liked it or not. E. Jean Carroll didn't like it.

I could continue for some time but you get the gist. The Founders believed the health of our democracy relied on the participation of virtuous people. Not moral degenerates like Cheeto.

I see they would ignore Ted Kennedy saving his own ass while letting an innocent woman drown. They would single one man out like you losers have done? I think they would have huge problems with gender study and Planned parenthood. There is no high moral ground in our politics and you idiots keep trying to claim what simply does not exist.

 

[Curried Goats]

Thomas Jefferson wrote a lot - identify ONE passage wherein he defended the institution of slavery

Throughout his entire life, Thomas Jefferson was publicly a consistent opponent of slavery. Calling it a “moral depravity”1 and a “hideous blot,”2 he believed that slavery presented the greatest threat to the survival of the new American nation.3 Jefferson also thought that slavery was contrary to the laws of nature, which decreed that everyone had a right to personal liberty.4 These views were radical in a world where unfree labor was the norm.

Thomas Jefferson's Attitudes Toward Slavery

How did Jefferson feel about slavery? What did he say about it, and what did he do about it?

www.monticello.org

He can't really be described as a consistent opponent of slavery when he owned people as slaves and likely fathered children, through rape with one of his teenage slaves, who he also kept as slaves. Not unless you mean it satirically.

 

[Contumacious]

He can't really be described as a consistent opponent of slavery when he owned people as slaves and likely fathered children, through rape with one of his teenage slaves, who he also kept as slaves. Not unless you mean it satirically.

Respectfully disagree.

Sadly , it would have not been safe to release freed blacks in 1700's Virginia.

"While in Paris, where enslaved people could petition for their freedom, [Sally Hemings} she negotiated with Jefferson to return to enslavement at Monticello in exchange for “extraordinary privileges” for herself and freedom for her unborn children. Decades later, Jefferson freed all of Sally Hemings’s children "

You claim that Ms Sally Hemings was raped is baseless.

 

[Curried Goats]

Respectfully disagree.

Sadly , it would have not been safe to release freed blacks in 1700's Virginia.

"While in Paris, where enslaved people could petition for their freedom, [Sally Hemings} she negotiated with Jefferson to return to enslavement at Monticello in exchange for “extraordinary privileges” for herself and freedom for her unborn children. Decades later, Jefferson freed all of Sally Hemings’s children "

You claim that Ms Sally Hemings was raped is baseless.

She negotiated with him because he still owned members of her family back in Virginia. Your own link describes a relationship of coercion.

 

[Contumacious]

She negotiated with him because he still owned members of her family back in Virginia. Your own link describes a relationship of coercion.

HUH? WTF.

What would have happened if she had refused to sign ? President Jefferson would then KILL THEIR CHILDREN ?!?!?!?!?

Child please

 

[Curried Goats]

HUH? WTF.

What would have happened if she had refused to sign ? President Jefferson would then KILL THEIR CHILDREN ?!?!?!?!?

Child please

1. She negotiated those terms while she was pregnant with their first child.

2. I was talking about her other siblings and relatives back in Virginia who weren't overseas with them.

3. He could of treated them like he treated his other slaves. Hemings family lived a privileged life (for slaves) on Jefferson's plantation.

 

[blackhawk]

You should read about them in more detail while they all did great things in building this nation very few were morally upstanding they engaged in same vile and corrupt behavior then that we see today.

 

[pknopp]

Has actual anarchy ever worked in human history?

Nothing has actually worked.