How Obama’s White House Lost Ukraine in a Few Stupid Steps

[JakeStarkey]

Putin was not afraid of Bush and is not afraid of Obama.

We have no business influencing events on his borders.

Let's see if his RW supporters who idolized now want to go to war.

 

[1776]

Dictators like Putin have been around decades while idiots like Obama come and go, so he just bided his time until a dumbfuck like Obama came along openly telling the world that the US was going to be weak on the world stage.

Obama has been destroying the US military and CIA....Putin has been paying attention. Within a week of Obama/Hagel announcing the US Army will be lowered to "pre-WW2" levels, Putin invaded Ukraine.

Scum like Putin understand there are plenty of idiots in the US and when you people put Obama in power, those dictators make their move. Look at WW2....FDR was busy building a socialist utopia while Hitler built up his military right under the nose of the world ignoring his threats until it was too late.

When liberals are put in charge of the lone superpower on this planet, then evil will take advantage of any chance they get. AQ rose to power to pull of 9-11 thanks to Bill Clinton, Iran has become the evil empire they are today thanks to Jimmy Carter, Obama is helping Russia, China, Russia and Islamic terrorists gain more power and confidence to make their move....especially when he blamed the US for the world's problems and promised to reign in the US military.

 

[Nutz]

, we had no treaty with the Ukraine,.

Wrong! It's called 'The Budapest Memorandum' signed by President Clinton in 1994.


Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

1.Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
2.Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
3.Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
4.Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
5.Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
6.Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments

I'm impressed, McPuss, you didn't link to a hate site!

 

[tinydancer]

Interesting...what should the US and EU have done?

Stay out of it. Bottom line if you look at the two offers made to the Ukraine to bolster their economy Russia simply made the better offer by far.

ETA: Canada and Britain should have kept out of this as well. I'm royally pissed that my Conservative government is involved in this bullshit. I've been slagging everyone in a very bipartisan fashion.

I see

Just lay back and allow Putin to do as he wishes

If that is what Republicans want, why don't they just say so?

Oh bite me. Putin didn't do a damn thing. It was a coup d'etat by the Opposition parties. The impeachment was unconstitutional and the government in Kiev is illegal.

I don't know about you. But I personally take issue with my freaking government backing the overthrow of a duly elected government.

Let alone sending this crew of goons in Kiev my tax dollars.

 

[rightwinger]

Stay out of it. Bottom line if you look at the two offers made to the Ukraine to bolster their economy Russia simply made the better offer by far.

ETA: Canada and Britain should have kept out of this as well. I'm royally pissed that my Conservative government is involved in this bullshit. I've been slagging everyone in a very bipartisan fashion.

I see

Just lay back and allow Putin to do as he wishes

If that is what Republicans want, why don't they just say so?

Oh bite me. Putin didn't do a damn thing. It was a coup d'etat by the Opposition parties. The impeachment was unconstitutional and the government in Kiev is illegal.

I don't know about you. But I personally take issue with my freaking government backing the overthrow of a duly elected government.

Let alone sending this crew of goons in Kiev my tax dollars.

I'm just trying to pin you down to one position or the other. You obviously don't support the chosen tactics of Obama and the EU

That leaves you supporting the tactics of Putin

 

[rdean]

If Obama had the Ukraine, then Bush had Georgia.

 

[1776]

Tiny pieces of Georgia compared to Ukraine is a pathetic comparison.

Putin stole pieces of Georgia because we relied on the NDN for Afghanistan, it was blackmail.

The NDN is less needed today as we drawdown in Afghanistan and Ukraine is a bigger chess piece in Europe than Georgia.

There is a reason why the Baltics, Romania and Poland are freaking out right now, dumbfuck.

If Obama had the Ukraine, then Bush had Georgia.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

If the region becomes more infested with Islamic terrorists, then maybe it's our business, otherwise I say let them hash it out themselves, I really don't care.

 

[Nutz]

If the region becomes more infested with Islamic terrorists, then maybe it's our business, otherwise I say let them hash it out themselves, I really don't care.

I hate saying this, but Putin would handle the terrorists better than ANY US politician...no doubt.

 

[Meister]

If the region becomes more infested with Islamic terrorists, then maybe it's our business, otherwise I say let them hash it out themselves, I really don't care.

I hate saying this, but Putin would handle the terrorists better than ANY US politician...no doubt.

Yeah, being politically correct sucks, don't it?

 

[Katzndogz]

I care about Ukraine only insofar as it can be used to make obama look like the dolt he is.

 

[tinydancer]

I see

Just lay back and allow Putin to do as he wishes

If that is what Republicans want, why don't they just say so?

Oh bite me. Putin didn't do a damn thing. It was a coup d'etat by the Opposition parties. The impeachment was unconstitutional and the government in Kiev is illegal.

I don't know about you. But I personally take issue with my freaking government backing the overthrow of a duly elected government.

Let alone sending this crew of goons in Kiev my tax dollars.

I'm just trying to pin you down to one position or the other. You obviously don't support the chosen tactics of Obama and the EU

That leaves you supporting the tactics of Putin

Give me a break that by criticizing our governments for their involvement on any level with backing this coup by the goons and thugs in Kiev means that I support Putin.

That's bullshit. I'm just not going to eat the lies we're being fed over Crimea or the Eastern Ukraine.

Why the hell are we involved in this? America had already invested 5 billion in supporting the opposition factors before the coup. Now you are sending a billion plus.

We're sending millions. And the government is illegal. The overthrow of a duly elected government was a coup.

And the idiots couldn't even follow their own constitution to impeach the President.

This government in Kiev in every way shape and form is illegal. And it pisses me clean off.

 

[rdean]

Tiny pieces of Georgia compared to Ukraine is a pathetic comparison.

Putin stole pieces of Georgia because we relied on the NDN for Afghanistan, it was blackmail.

The NDN is less needed today as we drawdown in Afghanistan and Ukraine is a bigger chess piece in Europe than Georgia.

There is a reason why the Baltics, Romania and Poland are freaking out right now, dumbfuck.

If Obama had the Ukraine, then Bush had Georgia.

Wow, look at all that "spin".

 

[rightwinger]

Oh bite me. Putin didn't do a damn thing. It was a coup d'etat by the Opposition parties. The impeachment was unconstitutional and the government in Kiev is illegal.

I don't know about you. But I personally take issue with my freaking government backing the overthrow of a duly elected government.

Let alone sending this crew of goons in Kiev my tax dollars.

I'm just trying to pin you down to one position or the other. You obviously don't support the chosen tactics of Obama and the EU

That leaves you supporting the tactics of Putin

Give me a break that by criticizing our governments for their involvement on any level with backing this coup by the goons and thugs in Kiev means that I support Putin.

That's bullshit. I'm just not going to eat the lies we're being fed over Crimea or the Eastern Ukraine.

Why the hell are we involved in this? America had already invested 5 billion in supporting the opposition factors before the coup. Now you are sending a billion plus.

We're sending millions. And the government is illegal. The overthrow of a duly elected government was a coup.

And the idiots couldn't even follow their own constitution to impeach the President.

This government in Kiev in every way shape and form is illegal. And it pisses me clean off.

You don't support the efforts of our government and the EU

Where does that leave you? You say "Don't get involved" which is the same as saying "Let Putin do what he wants"

You can't have it both ways

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I'm just trying to pin you down to one position or the other. You obviously don't support the chosen tactics of Obama and the EU

That leaves you supporting the tactics of Putin

Give me a break that by criticizing our governments for their involvement on any level with backing this coup by the goons and thugs in Kiev means that I support Putin.

That's bullshit. I'm just not going to eat the lies we're being fed over Crimea or the Eastern Ukraine.

Why the hell are we involved in this? America had already invested 5 billion in supporting the opposition factors before the coup. Now you are sending a billion plus.

We're sending millions. And the government is illegal. The overthrow of a duly elected government was a coup.

And the idiots couldn't even follow their own constitution to impeach the President.

This government in Kiev in every way shape and form is illegal. And it pisses me clean off.

You don't support the efforts of our government and the EU

Where does that leave you? You say "Don't get involved" which is the same as saying "Let Putin do what he wants"

You can't have it both ways

Let Putin do what he wants.

 

[PoliticalChic]

now post the other editorial on the subject, the con vs. pro...for once be equal in representation of an issue..

"...hardly the president’s first failure..."

 

[BlindBoo]

, we had no treaty with the Ukraine,.

Wrong! It's called 'The Budapest Memorandum' signed by President Clinton in 1994.


Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

1.Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
2.Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
3.Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
4.Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
5.Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
6.Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments

The Ukraine and the USA have no legal military alliance or defense pact of any kind. The Budapest Memorandum carries nothing even close to the language with respect to a real defense treaty.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wasn't last month's Prog Talking Point that Putin called Obama to hand back the Ukraine?

 

[JakeStarkey]

How Obama’s White House Lost Ukraine in a Few Stupid Steps

1. Ukraine was not and is not ours to win or lose

2. Those clown who want an US-Russia ware are idiotic neo-conservatives of the worst sort.

3. US libs and cons for some reason are supporting the overthrow of a democratically elected government (albeit fascist) by fascists.

4. Who wants to get involved in a struggle on the borders of Russia between former communists and now fascists?

 

[tinydancer]

I'm just trying to pin you down to one position or the other. You obviously don't support the chosen tactics of Obama and the EU

That leaves you supporting the tactics of Putin

Give me a break that by criticizing our governments for their involvement on any level with backing this coup by the goons and thugs in Kiev means that I support Putin.

That's bullshit. I'm just not going to eat the lies we're being fed over Crimea or the Eastern Ukraine.

Why the hell are we involved in this? America had already invested 5 billion in supporting the opposition factors before the coup. Now you are sending a billion plus.

We're sending millions. And the government is illegal. The overthrow of a duly elected government was a coup.

And the idiots couldn't even follow their own constitution to impeach the President.

This government in Kiev in every way shape and form is illegal. And it pisses me clean off.

You don't support the efforts of our government and the EU

Where does that leave you? You say "Don't get involved" which is the same as saying "Let Putin do what he wants"

You can't have it both ways

It leaves me not supporting a violent overthrow of a duly elected government in the Ukraine.

It leaves me royally pissed off that our governments are supporting the violent overthrow of a duly elected government.

Nice and simple. We're not talking rocket science here.