How much should we pay in taxes?

[SC Patriot]

I've always wondered, in a country that has produced a $30 trillion debt, why are we led to believe that paying increased taxes is needed to pay it off? The new democrat infrastructure bill is full of such taxes. And why give us a stimulus and then just take it all back in taxes?

View attachment 474844

Are taxes more or less a way to control people more than a way to generate revenue to pay for an unsurmountable debt that will never be paid down?

Or do some think that we need to keep a tax/debt ratio to keep it from all falling apart?

And what is our "fair share" of paying taxes? I hear this constantly from the government. What is fair?

One of my favorite quotes of all time comes from Ben Franklin

"It would be thought a hard government
that should tax its people one tenth part."

It makes me laugh every time I read it.

How much of your fair share did you pay in taxes last year?

How much public infrastructure did you use in comparison to the amount of tax you paid?

Amazon paid zero in taxes last year. The CEO is worth $180 Billion.

How much above zero would you consider a fair share for Amazon to pay?

How much infrastructure do they use in comparison to the amount of taxes they paid last year?

You are aware, I am sure, how a coproation works.
No. You are not aware....so I will explain it to you because people like our President are aware you don't know so they can spin reality to make you angry.

A corporation has revenue.
It also has expenses...COGS as an example
It also has employer payroll tax match...money that is part of the FICA system
It has payroll for employees and officers of the company...of which each person who receives a w-4 pays taxes on.
Now...if not an S-Corp or an LLC....anything left over is used for one of two things.....distributions to ownership (which it taxed as income to those individuals) or kept as a holding for future use.
Now...if that money is NOT used in the future for expansion or whatever, it will do one of two things....
disappear into thin air.....OR....be distributed to ownership and thus be taxed as personal income.

So whereas Mr. Biden made it a bad thing that Amazon didnt pay a penny of tax, he left out the fact that every penny USED was taxed personally on the employees and officers and every penny NOT taxed is still in reserves and will be taxed at a later time if not used for growth and development.

And what the fuck is wrong with keeping reserves for future growth?

You people are so fucking ignorant and Biden and Pelosi know it.

My wife and I laugh at your ignorance and gullibility.

 

[Votto]

I'm a believer in uniformity and have long favored a flat tax and elimination of the capital gains and inheritance taxes by folding both into the income tax.

I'd begin that uniformity with the definition of income which I would classify as any money a person (or couple) receives minus any costs they paid to secure that income. That's it. It wouldn't matter if the money comes from work, capital gain on investment, capital gain on sale of property, the lottery, welfare checks, inheritance, gambling, found money, etc. Expenses would be anything from steel toe shoes, cost of commuting to work, cost of the stock or other property for which there was a gain, dry cleaning, etc. To eliminate much of the headache of tax filing I'd keep a standard deduction to account for basic expenses a person pays that goes with having a job instead of accounting for most of this crap.

That uniformity I like also includes making the corporate tax rate the same as the personal tax rate which would be the same rate for head of households, singles, couples filing jointly, couples filing individually, and couples that anybody is outraged at why the government classifies them as couples.

Naturally the broader we include what is income the simpler the tax code, the less tax avoidance games people need to play, and the lower the fixed tax rate can be set.

The powers that be will never make the changes you suggest.

I think most still think that the economy is a pie that is evenly distributed among people, but in reality, the government will spend a set amount no matter the revenue they take in. It matters little to them if the revenue continues to be trillions of dollars short. In other words, the life of ordinary citizens will not improve with more tax revenue being taken in from the "rich". That is a myth.

From what I can assess, taxation is merely a political tool to control people. For example, if you want tax perks then send your money to the winning political powers. And as we saw with the Obama era, use the IRS to target your political opponents. Sure, the conservatives that the IRS targeted won a court case getting some of their money back, but the damage was done, the election was lost due to the efforts of such targeting.

The powers that be will see to it that most remain poor and will not pay direct income taxes, that way they ensure votes as they doll out continued stimulus payments to the poor in order to obtain the necessary votes. But in the interim, the quality of living will continue to deteriorate along with the failing economy they are destroying in the process. The vast majority will not even notice, like a frog in a frying pan as the heat slowly gets turned up until there is no government left to give them crumbs to survive on.

In other words, learn to speak Chinese.

 

[otto105]

I've always wondered, in a country that has produced a $30 trillion debt, why are we led to believe that paying increased taxes is needed to pay it off? The new democrat infrastructure bill is full of such taxes. And why give us a stimulus and then just take it all back in taxes?

View attachment 474844

Are taxes more or less a way to control people more than a way to generate revenue to pay for an unsurmountable debt that will never be paid down?

Or do some think that we need to keep a tax/debt ratio to keep it from all falling apart?

And what is our "fair share" of paying taxes? I hear this constantly from the government. What is fair?

One of my favorite quotes of all time comes from Ben Franklin

"It would be thought a hard government
that should tax its people one tenth part."

It makes me laugh every time I read it.

We sell government bonds for that knuckle dragger.

 

[otto105]

Well a couple of things here.

- The US public owns most of our debt.
- The Fed is a separate entity from the US Treasury (which houses the IRS). The Treasury taxes...the fed has nothing to do with that. So your Pocahontas meme is a very strange thing

Now to get to the meat and potatoes, how much should we pay in taxes:

1 billion or more income: 60%
100 million - 999,999 million: 45%
1 million - 100 million: 40%
300k - 1 million: 35%
100k - 299k: 30%
100k or less: 20%

Here's a kooky thought. Why don't we hold our politicians accountable before we raise taxes.
Naaah....that's crazy talk. They need as much money as possible to take care of us.

View attachment 474856

With their former owners being republic pols dreaming of the good olde days of the Antebellum South.

 

[JWBooth]

We should pay enough taxes to pay our bills. We made them, and we owe them. The rich should pay more.

So by “we” you actually mean “them”. Gotcha.

The voices must be talking to you again cause I didn't say that.

your deflecting from your actions again,,

not all of us voted for the two parties that created the debt,,

Doesn't matter. We are one nation governed by consensus. If you share in the roads, military protection, and all the other advantages of being an American, you share in the cost of those things, even if some of it isn't exactly like you wanted it.

Long as the government steals from me by way of no end of taxes and fees, I am under no obligation not to use the fucking roads. Oh, and piss on the empire’s military.

 

[otto105]

We should pay enough taxes to pay our bills. We made them, and we owe them. The rich should pay more.

So by “we” you actually mean “them”. Gotcha.

The voices must be talking to you again cause I didn't say that.

your deflecting from your actions again,,

not all of us voted for the two parties that created the debt,,

Doesn't matter. We are one nation governed by consensus. If you share in the roads, military protection, and all the other advantages of being an American, you share in the cost of those things, even if some of it isn't exactly like you wanted it.

Long as the government steals from me by way of no end of taxes and fees, I am under no obligation not to use the fucking roads. Oh, and piss on the empire’s military.

No, piss on your fucked up libertarian views.

 

[Dadoalex]

I've always wondered, in a country that has produced a $30 trillion debt, why are we led to believe that paying increased taxes is needed to pay it off? The new democrat infrastructure bill is full of such taxes. And why give us a stimulus and then just take it all back in taxes?

View attachment 474844

Are taxes more or less a way to control people more than a way to generate revenue to pay for an unsurmountable debt that will never be paid down?

Or do some think that we need to keep a tax/debt ratio to keep it from all falling apart?

And what is our "fair share" of paying taxes? I hear this constantly from the government. What is fair?

One of my favorite quotes of all time comes from Ben Franklin

"It would be thought a hard government
that should tax its people one tenth part."

It makes me laugh every time I read it.

Stop complaining about Democrats.
3 of the last 4 Republican presidents absolutely blew up the debt and deficit. The 1 who didn't, Bush-41, actually behaved like a fiscal conservative and you guys tossed him like moldy bread.
Republicans have demonstrated beyond doubt their inability be responsibly or honestly about taxes.

it could be both,,

It is both. Republicans are both too dishonest and too incompetent to be trusted with taxes, the debt, the deficit, or even slipping a buck into the condom machine in their favorite stripper bar.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

With all the loopholes for the rich I know people earning 100x middle class income pay less than the middle class worker.

Show me.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes I agree that thanks to Trumpy Bear tax cuts (86% to top 1%) should totally stand for the Trump Criminal Enterprise!
Also support one of the guys he hates the most paying NOTHING.

Amazon will pay $0 in federal taxes this year â and it's partially thanks to Trump

Amazon is one of the world's biggest companies, with $232 billion in 2018 revenue. But the company will not pay one cent in federal taxes this year thanks to friendly corporate tax rates and a mix of tax credits and deductions.

www.cnbc.com

If they reinvest all their profits, how much should they pay in taxes?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

With all the loopholes for the rich I know people earning 100x middle class income pay less than the middle class worker.

Agreed.
For example, the wealthy can pay themselves in stock options, which then only pays the capital gains rate.

the wealthy can pay themselves in stock options, which then only pays the capital gains rate.

The year they "pay themselves in stock options", they owe taxes on the value of the option.

 

[my2¢]

The powers that be will never make the changes you suggest.

I rate that as one of those, "truer words have never been written" sort of replies. The present system allowing lawmakers to designate tax winners and losers gives them control that they'll never give up.

 

[otto105]

I've always wondered, in a country that has produced a $30 trillion debt, why are we led to believe that paying increased taxes is needed to pay it off? The new democrat infrastructure bill is full of such taxes. And why give us a stimulus and then just take it all back in taxes?

View attachment 474844

Are taxes more or less a way to control people more than a way to generate revenue to pay for an unsurmountable debt that will never be paid down?

Or do some think that we need to keep a tax/debt ratio to keep it from all falling apart?

And what is our "fair share" of paying taxes? I hear this constantly from the government. What is fair?

One of my favorite quotes of all time comes from Ben Franklin

"It would be thought a hard government
that should tax its people one tenth part."

It makes me laugh every time I read it.

Stop complaining about Democrats.
3 of the last 4 Republican presidents absolutely blew up the debt and deficit. The 1 who didn't, Bush-41, actually behaved like a fiscal conservative and you guys tossed him like moldy bread.
Republicans have demonstrated beyond doubt their inability be responsibly or honestly about taxes.

it could be both,,

It is both. Republicans are both too dishonest and too incompetent to be trusted with taxes, the debt, the deficit, or even slipping a buck into the condom machine in their favorite stripper bar.

Yeah, we should let....

Since.....made America the nation that it is.

 

[krichton]

Where was the outrage when trump ran up the deficit by 2 trillion with tax cuts for jeff bezos and all his rich friends? LOL

 

[Dadoalex]

I've always wondered, in a country that has produced a $30 trillion debt, why are we led to believe that paying increased taxes is needed to pay it off? The new democrat infrastructure bill is full of such taxes. And why give us a stimulus and then just take it all back in taxes?

View attachment 474844

Are taxes more or less a way to control people more than a way to generate revenue to pay for an unsurmountable debt that will never be paid down?

Or do some think that we need to keep a tax/debt ratio to keep it from all falling apart?

And what is our "fair share" of paying taxes? I hear this constantly from the government. What is fair?

One of my favorite quotes of all time comes from Ben Franklin

"It would be thought a hard government
that should tax its people one tenth part."

It makes me laugh every time I read it.

Stop complaining about Democrats.
3 of the last 4 Republican presidents absolutely blew up the debt and deficit. The 1 who didn't, Bush-41, actually behaved like a fiscal conservative and you guys tossed him like moldy bread.
Republicans have demonstrated beyond doubt their inability be responsibly or honestly about taxes.

it could be both,,

It is both. Republicans are both too dishonest and too incompetent to be trusted with taxes, the debt, the deficit, or even slipping a buck into the condom machine in their favorite stripper bar.

Yeah, we should let....

Since.....made America the nation that it is.

Sorry. Your post is nonsensical.
Not a response to the post to which you responded and insufficient context beyond that.

 

[TNHarley]

If we had a constitutional federal govt, we would only have a small sales tax, or something similar. All this big govt shit wouldn't exist.

That hasn't been true since the Rebs fired on Fort Sumter...

Yeah, lincoln really showed us the constitution didnt matter one bit. We were no better than the oppressors we left.

 

[Kondor3]

...Yeah, lincoln really showed us the constitution didnt matter one bit. We were no better than the oppressors we left.

Nahhhhh... Lincoln showed you that traitors never prosper...

 

[TNHarley]

...Yeah, lincoln really showed us the constitution didnt matter one bit. We were no better than the oppressors we left.

Nahhhhh... Lincoln showed you that traitors never prosper...

Maybe to a revisionist.
Then again, lincoln was a traitor. And JWB gave him what he deserved.
Good point

 

[Blues Man]

I'm a believer in uniformity and have long favored a flat tax and elimination of the capital gains and inheritance taxes by folding both into the income tax.

I'd begin that uniformity with the definition of income which I would classify as any money a person (or couple) receives minus any costs they paid to secure that income. That's it. It wouldn't matter if the money comes from work, capital gain on investment, capital gain on sale of property, the lottery, welfare checks, inheritance, gambling, found money, etc. Expenses would be anything from steel toe shoes, cost of commuting to work, cost of the stock or other property for which there was a gain, dry cleaning, etc. To eliminate much of the headache of tax filing I'd keep a standard deduction to account for basic expenses a person pays that goes with having a job instead of accounting for most of this crap.

That uniformity I like also includes making the corporate tax rate the same as the personal tax rate which would be the same rate for head of households, singles, couples filing jointly, couples filing individually, and couples that anybody is outraged at why the government classifies them as couples.

Naturally the broader we include what is income the simpler the tax code, the less tax avoidance games people need to play, and the lower the fixed tax rate can be set.

I could argue that the cost of the food I eat and the home I sleep in are expenses incurred so I can work.,

We should just have a flat tax with no deductions or exemptions from the first dollar earned.

I think 10% is a reasonable amount to pay in taxes.

 

[Blues Man]

I'm a believer in uniformity and have long favored a flat tax and elimination of the capital gains and inheritance taxes by folding both into the income tax.

I'd begin that uniformity with the definition of income which I would classify as any money a person (or couple) receives minus any costs they paid to secure that income. That's it. It wouldn't matter if the money comes from work, capital gain on investment, capital gain on sale of property, the lottery, welfare checks, inheritance, gambling, found money, etc. Expenses would be anything from steel toe shoes, cost of commuting to work, cost of the stock or other property for which there was a gain, dry cleaning, etc. To eliminate much of the headache of tax filing I'd keep a standard deduction to account for basic expenses a person pays that goes with having a job instead of accounting for most of this crap.

That uniformity I like also includes making the corporate tax rate the same as the personal tax rate which would be the same rate for head of households, singles, couples filing jointly, couples filing individually, and couples that anybody is outraged at why the government classifies them as couples.

Naturally the broader we include what is income the simpler the tax code, the less tax avoidance games people need to play, and the lower the fixed tax rate can be set.

I agree a flat tax has its appeal.
The problem comes in deciding what is profit to be taxed?
Somethings have a 100% mark up, like art, and something have only a 10% mark up, like milk in a grocery store.
So you can't tax gross, but only profits.
And then the problem is poor people actually have very little profit once you consider rent, food, gas, etc., as part of the costs of doing business.
But a way to deal with that is to just have a large flat personal exemption, like $15,000 for the household and another $5,000 per person exemption?
That way a family of 3 (2 parents and a child), would not pay any tax on the first $30,000.
And then anything after that could be taxed at a high flat rate, like 25%.
So then a millionaire would be getting only the same exemptions, and be paying 25% on almost everything, without writes off for mansion mortgages, depreciation, etc.

Or just tax all income at a lower rate.

I never understood the logic behind exempting X amount then taxing the rest at a higher rate. Just average out the higher rate across all income.

So if a person makes 1000 dollars and the first 250 is not taxed and the remaining 750 is taxed at 20% 150 is paid in taxes.

Why not just tax from the first dollar at 15%?

 

[Blues Man]

For the type of government we have today I would say 23% total for local, state, and federal. If we were to have only a necessary government I would say 6% total for local, state, and federal.

Whatever the case it should be clearly defined and never changed.

Too high.