A challenge for the "Tax the rich more" crowd.

[Nostra]

These days we do not have a balanced budget, and until we do that there is no point in raising taxes cuz all that does is allow Congress to spend more money. And that requires less spending, no ifs, ands, or buts. You can tax the rich more and more but that will not affect the national debt until the federal gov't stops spending more than they take in. Too many morons think we can just print or create more money; newsflash, that has never worked. It could be a small part of the solution if managed well. But I see no signs of that happening anytime soon.

Right now the annual deficits approach $2 trillion each year. Anybody who believes we can raise taxes that much on the rich or anybody else for that matter, is stark raving nuts. Some people believe the US is heading into a recession or at best an economic slowdown similar to the Obama years. We're gonna have to face the debt problem sooner or later, and that problem grows larger with every passing day.

Our debt has never been a revenue problem. It has always been a spending problem.

 

[candycorn]

Dividend income is suppose to be reported with your overall income and taxes the same already

No it isn’t. Dividend income is taxed at a lesser rate than regular income.

 

[struth]

No it isn’t. Dividend income is taxed at a lesser rate than regular income.

No it’s not you idiot

You are confusing it with long term cap gains

 

[candycorn]

No it’s not you idiot

You are confusing it with long term cap gains

 

[kyzr]

Sure you did, right here:

Explained in posts #211 and #215

"Total wealth as of 2022 was $199T per the CBO, 6% was the lower half, the rest is simple math."

The upper 50% had $187T in 2022
The lower 50% had $ 12T in 2022, so who should pay more taxes to cover the $39T borrowed to send the stock markets higher. Think hard.

 

[struth]

View attachment 1228744

Holy shit

Capital Gains vs. Dividend Income: What's the Difference?

Both capital gains and dividend payments are incomes that must be declared. Selling something for a profit leads to capital gains. A payment made by a corporation to stockholders is a dividend.

www.investopedia.com

 

[Zincwarrior]

I would settle for tax the rich a little bit.

 

[kyzr]

Our debt has never been a revenue problem. It has always been a spending problem.

Our debt is a revenue problem when the interest on that $39T debt is $1.2T a year and exceeds defense spending. Not to mention the $billions in subsidies given as "corporate welfare" to boost stock portfolios.
We need to cut spending and raise revenue to start paying down the debt.

 

[Nostra]

Our debt is a revenue problem when the interest on that $39T debt is $1.2T a year and exceeds defense spending. Not to mention the $billions in subsidies given as "corporate welfare" to boost stock portfolios.
We need to cut spending and raise revenue to start paying down the debt.

Nope. If you can't run the govt with over $5 trillion, resign and go home.

There is plenty of money to do the very few things the Constitution authorizes the govt to do.

 

[ThisIsMe]

How do you expect to reduce or in the least, stop adding to the national debt? The tooth fairy will contribute?

Lower spending.

Wealth taxes won’t do it. The government will just find new uses for the new revenue.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Nope. Your OP says this:
"They never say what is "rich", and how much of the total tax bill the evil "rich" need to pay for their utopia."

So who should pay down the $39T National Debt? How about the people who have $200T in wealth?
A "Penny Solution" would work, a 1% tax on financial wealth, with a Balanced Budget Law to end future Federal borrowing, automatic budget cuts across the board if any deficit happens?

Otherwise we need to send Welfare and Medicaid to the states, which would have people dying in the streets.

But the rich don’t have 200 trillion in wealth. You are talking about corporations, not individuals.

Also, that 200T number is a global number, not just a US number, right?

 

[kyzr]

But the rich don’t have 200 trillion in wealth. You are talking about corporations, not individuals.

Also, that $200T number is a global number, not just a US number, right?

Actually you should google the "total value of US financial assets." ($269T)

Trends in the Distribution of Family Wealth, 1989 to 2022

CBO examines changes in family wealth from 1989 to 2022 using a measure of wealth that includes projected Social Security benefits. Over that period, family wealth was unevenly distributed, and wealth inequality increased.

www.cbo.gov

 

[Concerned American]

Taking NYC as an example, they have a $12 billion deficit, so pretty much EVERYONE with $5 in their pockets is rich.

LOL, and they couldn't buy a penny gum ball with that $5 in NYC.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Actually you should google the "total value of US financial assets." ($269T)

Trends in the Distribution of Family Wealth, 1989 to 2022

CBO examines changes in family wealth from 1989 to 2022 using a measure of wealth that includes projected Social Security benefits. Over that period, family wealth was unevenly distributed, and wealth inequality increased.

www.cbo.gov

View attachment 1228978

Ok, so youre talking about corporations, not individual wealth. So, corporations should have to pay a wealth tax?

 

[kyzr]

Ok, so you're talking about corporations, not individual wealth. So, corporations should have to pay a wealth tax?

Its complicated, but both corporations and individuals. Corporations own 70% individuals own 30%.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Its complicated, but both corporations and individuals. Corporations own 70% individuals own 30%.

View attachment 1229175

wealth tax simply wouldn’t work. Other countries have tried it and abandoned it.

You’d need spending cuts before a wealth tax would ever work.

The wealth tax would eventually filter down to ordinary people. Our current income tax USED to be a wealth tax, now everyone pays it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

wealth tax simply wouldn’t work.

If for no other reason it would require an amendment to the constitution.

 

[kyzr]

wealth tax simply wouldn’t work. Other countries have tried it and abandoned it.
You’d need spending cuts before a wealth tax would ever work.
The wealth tax would eventually filter down to ordinary people. Our current income tax USED to be a wealth tax, now everyone pays it.

OK. There are other ways to fix it,
1. Bring back the "Death Tax", excluding family farms and small businesses
2. Add a new 2% transaction tax on all financial transactions. (Kills the computer trade scams, buys/sells in fractions of seconds)
3. Implement the DOGE recommendations, saves $213b
4. Eliminate all tax deductions
5. End cash subsidies, (corporate welfare), buy stock and keep in Sovereign Fund to benefit taxpayers
6. Remove the capital gains tax break for stock sales
7. The "break glass" option is to put on a 3% Federal Sales Tax.

So no "wealth tax", but there are alternative options to balance the budget and start paying down the debt.

 

[Jarlaxle]

True for "Capital Gains". If you made money on a stock, that money is new "unearned (investment) income".

A "Wealth Tax" is not what I'm suggesting.
We need to start paying down the $39T Debt.
I'm open to suggestions.

I like these to start:
Financial transaction Tax (2% on all financial transactions, gains ~$150b a year)
Remove Capital Gains Tax loop-hole ( gains ~$100b/yr)
Fix SS & Medicare
Change the top IRS income tax rate from 37% to 40%. (gains $400b a year)

So these revenue "enhancers" would gain about $650b a year to start paying down the $39T debt.

Cut spending. Fire up the chainsaws and start slashing.

 

[kyzr]

Cut spending. Fire up the chainsaws and start slashing.

Easy to say, tough to do. So where do you want to cut?