How much do extremely wealthy people owe to the society that gave them the chance to prosper so much?

[Cecilie1200]

youre the only one showing hostility,,

You have got to be kidding me. You don't think she's hostile? She admitted that she's hostile and condescending in one of her earlier posts.

youre the one that started a thread with the intent to steal other peoples property,, shes just standing in defense of it,,, thats not hostile unless youre the one threatening to take what is hers,,

And what kind of self-centered ass would resent me for being hostile to someone trying to take my stuff?

 

[progressive hunter]

youre the only one showing hostility,,

You have got to be kidding me. You don't think she's hostile? She admitted that she's hostile and condescending in one of her earlier posts.

youre the one that started a thread with the intent to steal other peoples property,, shes just standing in defense of it,,, thats not hostile unless youre the one threatening to take what is hers,,

And what kind of self-centered ass would resent me for being hostile to someone trying to take my stuff?

a NAZI???

 

[Cecilie1200]

youre the one that started a thread with the intent to steal other peoples property,, shes just standing in defense of it,,, thats not hostile unless youre the one threatening to take what is hers,,

Ah, gotcha. That's a clever deflection and justification.

I just want to add that telling people they're stupid and that none of their opinions matter is a terrible way to teach. Y'all act like you're here trying to impart some great wisdom while you're flinging insults and trying to belittle me as much as possible. Maybe you should work on your approach if you want to teach me something. Maybe you grownups should be setting the standard for cordiality rather than me.

Actually, I said you were ignorant. It was your opinions I said were stupid.

And teaching you is not my job. It was the job of the overpaid tutors your parents pampered you with, and they failed miserably. Unless you're planning to fork over some cash, it's not my responsibility to fix their mess.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm not in the business of actively judging people. However, I've corresponded with her on this forum for a few years now, she's not as bad as you think.

But I can see both sides.

I'm not saying you don't have nuanced views, but if you're going to step into the ring, expect the kid gloves to come off instantly.

I have no expectations. My feeling aren't hurt. I just think it's hypocritical to call somebody childish while simultaneously calling them and anybody else that disagrees with you stupid. She can act however she wants; it's no skin off my nose. I will respond by saying it like it is, though.

Sure, honey. Your feelings aren't hurt. That's why every other post is whining and crying about how "mean" I am and how I need to improve my behavior to suit you, and now you're tattling to the teacher.

Seriously, your parents did you a great disservice by coddling you with tutors instead of sending you to school to get your ass kicked on the playground a couple of times.

 

[westwall]

based on your comments you are no nationalist,,, my best guess is your a progressive,,,

I am a left wing nationalist. I want us to stop wasting money internationally and I want us to stop letting uneducated poor people into our nation.

So you are a NAZI then.

thats not nazi,, they are national socialist,,,

ANY government that is collectivist, is LEFTWING. Right wing is NO GOVERNMENT. Fascism, socialism, communism, are all the same house, they are just slightly different colors.

nationalist in this country isnt about collectivism,, its about constitutional freedom,,,

Nationalist can be leftwing. In fact extremist nationalists are always leftists. Like I said, the extreme rightwing is anarchy.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I will respond by saying it like it is, though.

That is well within your rights to do so.

And it's well within our rights to do the same, however much he cries about it when we do.

 

[progressive hunter]

based on your comments you are no nationalist,,, my best guess is your a progressive,,,

I am a left wing nationalist. I want us to stop wasting money internationally and I want us to stop letting uneducated poor people into our nation.

So you are a NAZI then.

thats not nazi,, they are national socialist,,,

ANY government that is collectivist, is LEFTWING. Right wing is NO GOVERNMENT. Fascism, socialism, communism, are all the same house, they are just slightly different colors.

nationalist in this country isnt about collectivism,, its about constitutional freedom,,,

Nationalist can be leftwing. In fact extremist nationalists are always leftists. Like I said, the extreme rightwing in anarchy.

yes rightwing is conservative, libertarian to anarchist,,, to bad the conservatives vote for leftwing republicans,,,

I consider myself a rational anarchist,,

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, are you interested in listening to their point of view and seeing anything from their perspective? Or are you merely interested in being the victim? I'm not trying to be antagonistic or anything, but this is one question I asked myself when I was about your age.

Feel free to reject my reasoning. But being objective is one of the stepping stones to gaining the respect of your "elders".

Did you read the whole thread? The poster in question came in guns blazing shooting insults left and right. She never gave anybody the chance to have a good or constructive conversation. From the start she was insulting and condescending. Do you think they're interested in seeing anything from my perspective, or do they assume I'm too stupid and childish to have anything worth saying? Have they even seen some of the other "adults" on this forum?

You are incorrect. My first post on this thread was in response to this from you: "They'll still be the richest Americans if they are taxed more. They live in goofy amounts of excess that's only possible because the U.S kicks ass."

Here's what I answered: "See, that right there is a big part of why people refer to taxes as though they're theft: the idea that because you personally disapprove of how someone else uses the money they have earned justifies you taking it from them to "better use" it for what you want.

Your thread title pretended to start from the premise of "what do they owe for what they get", but it's pretty obvious early on that you're really starting from the premise of "What do we want that we can rationalize taking"."

By that time, the thread was already on page 2, and you had posted, in order:

We can't have a society if nobody owes anything to it.

They'll still be the richest Americans if they are taxed more. They live in goofy amounts of excess that's only possible because the U.S kicks ass.

People call taxes theft though. I also want to know what you think is appropriate as far as tax rates go.

How much more comfortable with it would you be if we were more focused on elevating Americans with that money?

So who pays for the military and the police?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

But you agree that we need some, which means we owe that to the nation, no?

So you tell me. Is my post "guns blazing, shooting insults left and right"? Is two pages of posts before I said anything not "giving anyone a chance to have a constructive conversation"? Do you think I had enough of an opportunity to see exactly what your perspective was from your posts I just listed?

Is it at all possible that you're just butthurt that I didn't agree with you and applaud your perspicacity? Can you have a constructive conversation without a dissenting opinion?

Are you really going to suggest that you haven't been unnecessarily hostile?

Unnecessarily? Nope.

 

[Cecilie1200]

youre the only one showing hostility,,

You have got to be kidding me. You don't think she's hostile? She admitted that she's hostile and condescending in one of her earlier posts.

youre the one that started a thread with the intent to steal other peoples property,, shes just standing in defense of it,,, thats not hostile unless youre the one threatening to take what is hers,,

And what kind of self-centered ass would resent me for being hostile to someone trying to take my stuff?

a NAZI???

Well, certainly a leftist.

 

[hadit]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

You won’t get many if any serious answers.
I feel they should pay at least the same percentage of income as the bulk of Americans pay. Unfortunately though our current system makes it cheaper for them to pay experts to avoid taxes altogether in some cases. See Trump.

See every multi-millionaire and billionaire and stop pretending it's something unique to TRUMP!. Why do you think Warren Buffet complains about the income tax being too low? He does it because most of his income is in capital gains, not regular income and he knows if it gets raised it won't effect him very much.

See every multi-millionaire and billionaire and stop pretending it's something unique to TRUMP!. Why do you think Warren Buffet complains about the income tax being too low? He does it because most of his income is in capital gains, not regular income and he knows if it gets raised it won't effect him very much.

Derp....
I used Trump because we know for a fact what he’s paid recently. As long as a tax expert and loopholes are cheaper they will always pay a lower percentage.

And as long as it's legal to do so, they will continue to pay a lower percentage. Just don't believe a rich democrat when he tries to tell you he wants to pay more taxes. He doesn't, because if he did, he wouldn't have a tax firm doing his return for him.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I will respond by saying it like it is, though.

That is well within your rights to do so.

And it's well within our rights to do the same, however much he cries about it when we do.

Agreed. Always for equal opportunity!

 

[Cecilie1200]

my point is if youre going to ignore people that have experienced real life and still push things you only think and have never experienced any further discussion is useless,,

You being older than me isn't enough to change my mind. It doesn't automatically make your views right or superior. You're using our age difference as a serious crutch for your arguments. I didn't ignore you; you just weren't able to convince me.

That whooshing noise is the point going over your head again. Probably because you keep ducking it.

He didn't say, "Older". He said, "Experienced real life". YOU are making it about age difference. WE are making it about experience difference.

 

[Cecilie1200]

its not about the age its about the experience,,, and at you age you havent experienced having to provide for yourself let alone others,,,

My extremely conservative math and economics tutor hasn't managed to turn me into a conservative yet. When we disagree he never acts condescending or uses my age to shut down my views. You're going to have to step up your game if you expect to accomplish what he hasn't managed to yet.

Of course he doesn't. You're paying him to be nice to you. You aren't paying us jack shit, so we have no vested interest in kissing your ass.

And you are seriously flattering yourself that anyone here is interested in "turning you into" anything at all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I agree he is indeed an outlier. Amazingly enough, it is those outliers who have, in general, had the greatest impact on the world. I think he did what he did in spite of what others did.

I think he might have accomplished even more with a better start, and if not it's certainly the case for most people, no?

I don't think so. Take a look through history. Pretty much every major advancement in science has come from those who weren't willing to bow to the collective.

Collective thinking has slowed progress in every meaningful way regardless of if it is science, or cultural, or religious, etc.

Take a look at your thinking, a small group determines where other people's earnings go.

That is ancient. That goes back to the dawn of civilization. Slavery by just another name.

Okay, now THAT is insightful and profound.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes. I've said a number of times previously in this forum. I'm no fan of democracy, if you haven't already guessed.

I do get frustrated with how slow and useless democracy can be. I'm not sure I'm ready to bring back kings, though.

It's worse than slow and useless. You can always depend on the majority to make the wrong decision and oppress the minority.

 

[Cecilie1200]

based on your comments you are no nationalist,,, my best guess is your a progressive,,,

I am a left wing nationalist. I want us to stop wasting money internationally and I want us to stop letting uneducated poor people into our nation.

Well, you're not wrong there.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's what one does when someone is propounding on egregiously wrong philosophies that will cause harm: one picks them apart. Only great fools give them respect and let them stand to be "nice".

It's not at all funny. I find it sad that you keep presenting your perception like it matters and forcing me to remind you that I don't care. Makes me think you're not very bright.

You're just boring me now.

I keep telling you that you're welcome to tuck tail and scamper off. No need to try to save face, because no one will believe it, anyway.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What the hell do gay people and other skin colors have to do with anything?

From what I understand the Nazis weren't too thrilled about gay people or other ethnicities.

They weren't too thrilled with much of anyone except the people who obediently fell into line behind them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's not all about you. Would you like to talk about nationalist movements whose founders had no interest in genocide or war, which ended up that way anyway?

Conservatives on this forum love to slam the like button when I start talking about my nationalist views.

Wow, it's like people are individuals, instead of interchangeable drones with a label stuck on their foreheads.

 

[Anomalism]

Of course he doesn't. You're paying him to be nice to you. You aren't paying us jack shit, so we have no vested interest in kissing your ass.

And you are seriously flattering yourself that anyone here is interested in "turning you into" anything at all.

He gets paid to challenge me. He is extremely critical of my views. He's just critical in an intellectual way. I was intentionally exposed to conservative perspective.