How much do extremely wealthy people owe to the society that gave them the chance to prosper so much?

[westwall]

Some might call that "privilege"

That's exactly what it is.

and resent your family for its success and wealth.

Yeah...

Jealousy is a powerful emotion. I wish more people could have a more optimal education. There are some very bright people that just don't have that option.

Very bright people figure out how to get what they need. Education included.

 

[progressive hunter]

But most of what the government does is done badly and ineffectively. Take your example of public schools. I certainly agree that a nation is better off having an educated populace. But public schools are a lot more than simply "not perfect"; they, like all bloated government bureaucracies, are serving every goal and interest EXCEPT the education of the students. The United States spends on average $12,800 per student for education. Our annual education spending is higher than the GDP of many countries. Do we have the best-educated students in the world? Does anyone really think having the best-educated students in the world is the primary goal of public school systems?

How do we make public schools better? I rarely hear anything but vague or ridiculous answers to that question.

There are many ideas presented for making government schools better. Throwing more money at them, however, is not a true solution, because we spend so much for mediocre returns.

the only way schools will ever get better is if the feds get out and the parents get in,,,

anything else is a waste of time and money,,

This is true. The strongest indicator of a successful education system is involved and motivated parents, and that applies to all forms of schooling, whether government, private, or homeschooling.

By "involved and motivated parents," you mean parants that actually do the teaching. Government schools don't actually teach jack shit. All they do is administer tests and record the score.

theres a lot of teaching going on up til 6th grade,, after that there used to be a lot of trades being taught, not sure whats going on now, the parents job is to keep the kids motivated and involved in their lessons and add to them when the kids start to flounder,,

 

[Blues Man]

not sure about you because youre a faceless voice on the internet,, but your views are very evil and need called out when they show their ugly face,,,

Evil is subjective. All any of us can do is use our own sense of right and wrong.

No, evil is not subjective.

since the concept of evil was created by man it is indeed subjective.

That's like saying the concept of gravity was created by man.

no it's completely the opposite

We cannot redefine the force of gravity.

We can redefine good and evil and have done so many times.

let's take killing as an example.

We can say it's wrong to kill but that doesn't hold up all the time does it?

We can kill to save another person or ourselves. If the government puts a gun in your hands and tells you to kill strangers in a foreign country it's not wrong.

If you kill the guy who raped and killed your wife or daughter that's wrong but if the government kills that man it's not wrong.

We can't even agree on whether the death penalty is right or wrong.

 

[Blues Man]

I dont think people should be punished because they are more successful. IE much higher tax burden. They already pay most of the taxes anyway.
They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

Taxes are not punishment.

They can be.

the Obamacare tax was

 

[westwall]

That's like saying the concept of gravity was created by man.

Gravity can be measured and it existed long before we did. It's not some subjective concept like evil.

Ahhhhh, cultural relativism rears its ugly head.

 

[Blues Man]

Not at all. Just because you are unable to identify evil when you see it, that doesn't mean nobody can.

I can identify what I think is evil. That's all you can do too.

Wrong, idiot. Evil can be demonstrated with logic.

you still need to define evil and unless you can point to a universal authority that everyone can agree on to provide that definition you cannot argue that evil is not subjective.

Does physics have a universal authority?

I rest my case.

no it doesn't our so called laws of physics only apply to the 5% of the matter and energy we understand we have no idea if they hold up for the 95% we don't understand

and morals and ethics aren't physics.

Man defines what is good and evil right or wrong whereas a planet will orbit a star the same way no matter what a person says.

 

[bripat9643]

But most of what the government does is done badly and ineffectively. Take your example of public schools. I certainly agree that a nation is better off having an educated populace. But public schools are a lot more than simply "not perfect"; they, like all bloated government bureaucracies, are serving every goal and interest EXCEPT the education of the students. The United States spends on average $12,800 per student for education. Our annual education spending is higher than the GDP of many countries. Do we have the best-educated students in the world? Does anyone really think having the best-educated students in the world is the primary goal of public school systems?

How do we make public schools better? I rarely hear anything but vague or ridiculous answers to that question.

There are many ideas presented for making government schools better. Throwing more money at them, however, is not a true solution, because we spend so much for mediocre returns.

the only way schools will ever get better is if the feds get out and the parents get in,,,

anything else is a waste of time and money,,

This is true. The strongest indicator of a successful education system is involved and motivated parents, and that applies to all forms of schooling, whether government, private, or homeschooling.

By "involved and motivated parents," you mean parants that actually do the teaching. Government schools don't actually teach jack shit. All they do is administer tests and record the score.

theres a lot of teaching going on up til 6th grade,, after that there used to be a lot of trades being taught, not sure whats going on now, the parents job is to keep the kids motivated and involved in their lessons and add to them when the kids start to flounder,,

no, actually there isn't. Like I said, I taught my stepson how to read and write. I taught him math. The government schools don't teach jack. They never taught me anything. Government schools are geared towards the dumbest kids in the class. That means smarter kids are left to daydream while the teacher concentrate on the dumbasses who endup getting degrees in black studies.

 

[Anomalism]

Very bright people figure out how to get what they need. Education included.

People also do better when they don't have to do everything themselves and/or the hard way. You make it sound like ideal situations have no impact on the end product. That's ridiculous. Saying "Smart people will figure it out." kind of misses the point entirely.

 

[progressive hunter]

But most of what the government does is done badly and ineffectively. Take your example of public schools. I certainly agree that a nation is better off having an educated populace. But public schools are a lot more than simply "not perfect"; they, like all bloated government bureaucracies, are serving every goal and interest EXCEPT the education of the students. The United States spends on average $12,800 per student for education. Our annual education spending is higher than the GDP of many countries. Do we have the best-educated students in the world? Does anyone really think having the best-educated students in the world is the primary goal of public school systems?

How do we make public schools better? I rarely hear anything but vague or ridiculous answers to that question.

There are many ideas presented for making government schools better. Throwing more money at them, however, is not a true solution, because we spend so much for mediocre returns.

the only way schools will ever get better is if the feds get out and the parents get in,,,

anything else is a waste of time and money,,

This is true. The strongest indicator of a successful education system is involved and motivated parents, and that applies to all forms of schooling, whether government, private, or homeschooling.

By "involved and motivated parents," you mean parants that actually do the teaching. Government schools don't actually teach jack shit. All they do is administer tests and record the score.

theres a lot of teaching going on up til 6th grade,, after that there used to be a lot of trades being taught, not sure whats going on now, the parents job is to keep the kids motivated and involved in their lessons and add to them when the kids start to flounder,,

no, actually there isn't. Like I said, I taught my stepson how to read and write. I taught him math. The government schools don't teach jack. They never taught me anything. Government schools are geared towards the dumbest kids in the class. That means smarter kids are left to daydream while the teacher concentrate on the dumbasses who endup getting degrees in black studies.

youre using a pretty broad brush there,, fact is youre an exception and not a rule,,,if what you said is even true,,

 

[Anomalism]

Ahhhhh, cultural relativism rears its ugly head.

Is evil subjective?

 

[bripat9643]

Not at all. Just because you are unable to identify evil when you see it, that doesn't mean nobody can.

I can identify what I think is evil. That's all you can do too.

Wrong, idiot. Evil can be demonstrated with logic.

you still need to define evil and unless you can point to a universal authority that everyone can agree on to provide that definition you cannot argue that evil is not subjective.

Does physics have a universal authority?

I rest my case.

no it doesn't our so called laws of physics only apply to the 5% of the matter and energy we understand we have no idea if they hold up for the 95% we don't understand

Non sequitur. The fact that we don't know all the laws of physics only demonstrates that ethics are basic principles of reality. We don't know all the laws of physics so why should we know all the laws of ethics?

and morals and ethics aren't physics.

Neither are chemistry and biology.

Man defines what is good and evil right or wrong whereas a planet will orbit a star the same way no matter what a person says.

Man defines what is wrong or right only in the same sense that he "defines" the law of gravity.

If you believe ethics and morality are arbitrary, just try building a society where murder and theft are defined as "good."

 

[progressive hunter]

Very bright people figure out how to get what they need. Education included.

People also do better when they don't have to do everything themselves and/or the hard way. You make it sound like ideal situations have no impact on the end product. That's ridiculous. Saying "Smart people will figure it out." kind of missed the point entirely.

people always do better when they have to do it themselves, and if they have to do it the hard way they end up being the best amoung us,,, unless they are a dunce that will never get anywhere in life no matter the help they get,,,

 

[bripat9643]

But most of what the government does is done badly and ineffectively. Take your example of public schools. I certainly agree that a nation is better off having an educated populace. But public schools are a lot more than simply "not perfect"; they, like all bloated government bureaucracies, are serving every goal and interest EXCEPT the education of the students. The United States spends on average $12,800 per student for education. Our annual education spending is higher than the GDP of many countries. Do we have the best-educated students in the world? Does anyone really think having the best-educated students in the world is the primary goal of public school systems?

How do we make public schools better? I rarely hear anything but vague or ridiculous answers to that question.

There are many ideas presented for making government schools better. Throwing more money at them, however, is not a true solution, because we spend so much for mediocre returns.

the only way schools will ever get better is if the feds get out and the parents get in,,,

anything else is a waste of time and money,,

This is true. The strongest indicator of a successful education system is involved and motivated parents, and that applies to all forms of schooling, whether government, private, or homeschooling.

By "involved and motivated parents," you mean parants that actually do the teaching. Government schools don't actually teach jack shit. All they do is administer tests and record the score.

theres a lot of teaching going on up til 6th grade,, after that there used to be a lot of trades being taught, not sure whats going on now, the parents job is to keep the kids motivated and involved in their lessons and add to them when the kids start to flounder,,

no, actually there isn't. Like I said, I taught my stepson how to read and write. I taught him math. The government schools don't teach jack. They never taught me anything. Government schools are geared towards the dumbest kids in the class. That means smarter kids are left to daydream while the teacher concentrate on the dumbasses who endup getting degrees in black studies.

youre using a pretty broad brush there,, fact is youre an exception and not a rule,,,if what you said is even true,,

It's a rule for about 2/3ds of the class. The rest are hopeless.

 

[progressive hunter]

Ahhhhh, cultural relativism rears its ugly head.

Is evil subjective?

no its not,, it can only be accepted due to personal desire and greed,,

 

[Anomalism]

Non sequitur. The fact that we don't know all the laws of physics only demonstrates that ethics are basic principles of reality. We don't know all the laws of physics so why should we know all the laws of ethics?

Physics can be measured. Subjective concepts cannot.

 

[progressive hunter]

But most of what the government does is done badly and ineffectively. Take your example of public schools. I certainly agree that a nation is better off having an educated populace. But public schools are a lot more than simply "not perfect"; they, like all bloated government bureaucracies, are serving every goal and interest EXCEPT the education of the students. The United States spends on average $12,800 per student for education. Our annual education spending is higher than the GDP of many countries. Do we have the best-educated students in the world? Does anyone really think having the best-educated students in the world is the primary goal of public school systems?

How do we make public schools better? I rarely hear anything but vague or ridiculous answers to that question.

There are many ideas presented for making government schools better. Throwing more money at them, however, is not a true solution, because we spend so much for mediocre returns.

the only way schools will ever get better is if the feds get out and the parents get in,,,

anything else is a waste of time and money,,

This is true. The strongest indicator of a successful education system is involved and motivated parents, and that applies to all forms of schooling, whether government, private, or homeschooling.

By "involved and motivated parents," you mean parants that actually do the teaching. Government schools don't actually teach jack shit. All they do is administer tests and record the score.

theres a lot of teaching going on up til 6th grade,, after that there used to be a lot of trades being taught, not sure whats going on now, the parents job is to keep the kids motivated and involved in their lessons and add to them when the kids start to flounder,,

no, actually there isn't. Like I said, I taught my stepson how to read and write. I taught him math. The government schools don't teach jack. They never taught me anything. Government schools are geared towards the dumbest kids in the class. That means smarter kids are left to daydream while the teacher concentrate on the dumbasses who endup getting degrees in black studies.

youre using a pretty broad brush there,, fact is youre an exception and not a rule,,,if what you said is even true,,

It's a rule for about 2/3ds of the class. The rest are hopeless.

better you dont speak of things you cant possibly know about,,

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

You won’t get many if any serious answers.
I feel they should pay at least the same percentage of income as the bulk of Americans pay. Unfortunately though our current system makes it cheaper for them to pay experts to avoid taxes altogether in some cases. See Trump.

 

[progressive hunter]

Non sequitur. The fact that we don't know all the laws of physics only demonstrates that ethics are basic principles of reality. We don't know all the laws of physics so why should we know all the laws of ethics?

Physics can be measured. Subjective concepts cannot.

evil can be measured,,

 

[Anomalism]

no its not,, it can only be accepted due to personal desire and greed,,

Uh...right.

 

[bripat9643]

But most of what the government does is done badly and ineffectively. Take your example of public schools. I certainly agree that a nation is better off having an educated populace. But public schools are a lot more than simply "not perfect"; they, like all bloated government bureaucracies, are serving every goal and interest EXCEPT the education of the students. The United States spends on average $12,800 per student for education. Our annual education spending is higher than the GDP of many countries. Do we have the best-educated students in the world? Does anyone really think having the best-educated students in the world is the primary goal of public school systems?

How do we make public schools better? I rarely hear anything but vague or ridiculous answers to that question.

There are many ideas presented for making government schools better. Throwing more money at them, however, is not a true solution, because we spend so much for mediocre returns.

the only way schools will ever get better is if the feds get out and the parents get in,,,

anything else is a waste of time and money,,

This is true. The strongest indicator of a successful education system is involved and motivated parents, and that applies to all forms of schooling, whether government, private, or homeschooling.

By "involved and motivated parents," you mean parants that actually do the teaching. Government schools don't actually teach jack shit. All they do is administer tests and record the score.

theres a lot of teaching going on up til 6th grade,, after that there used to be a lot of trades being taught, not sure whats going on now, the parents job is to keep the kids motivated and involved in their lessons and add to them when the kids start to flounder,,

no, actually there isn't. Like I said, I taught my stepson how to read and write. I taught him math. The government schools don't teach jack. They never taught me anything. Government schools are geared towards the dumbest kids in the class. That means smarter kids are left to daydream while the teacher concentrate on the dumbasses who endup getting degrees in black studies.

youre using a pretty broad brush there,, fact is youre an exception and not a rule,,,if what you said is even true,,

It's a rule for about 2/3ds of the class. The rest are hopeless.

better you dont speak of things you cant possibly know about,,

You must be a public school teacher.