How Much Credit Should Obama Get For The Recovery?

[Dirty]

I usually don't either blame or credit presidents for the economic situation. Mainly what happens is beyond their control. But this time I think it may be a little different. Obama's taken some steps some other presidents would be afraid to go. He's taken some political risks, in other words, which appear to be paying off. Should he get more than normal credit for the recovery?

Well republicans want to give him all the blame for the failure, so I think he should get all the credit for any success. Sounds fair to me, how about you?

 

[Chris]

Yes, housing "is" a universal human need, Chris but that doesn't mean houses HAVE to bought or sold. Take the last few years for instance. Young people who normally would be graduating from college...getting good jobs and entering the housing market...are instead moving back in with mom & dad because those good jobs are non existent. Or take the people who would normally be selling their houses as they retired and either downsizing or moving to a warmer climate...many of those folks are either not retiring because their 401K's took such a hit or if they have retired they aren't selling their houses because the value has dropped so drastically. Then there is the new climate in financing the purchase of real estate. Gone are the days of the "liar loan"...gone are the days of the "zero down" purchase. A huge portion of the population cannot get financing to buy a house even though prices are way down and mortgages are at historic lows.

You've been quite vague about how it is "you've" managed to make more money than ever before, Chris. What "magic market" is it you're in that has bucked the economic trends that seem to be affecting everywhere else?

Virginia.

We have a lower unemployment rate than the rest of the country.

And you don't know anything about real estate. First time homebuyers and the military can still get 100% money. And anyone who pays their bills can get a mortgage. I have never had any problem getting people mortgage money.

And as far as 401Ks are concerned, the stock market has almost doubled since the stimulus.

Try to get your facts straight.

What's amusing, Chris is that I was going to guess that you had to be in the DC area if you thought real estate wasn't depressed. Gee, I wonder why Virginia's unemployment rate is SO low? Could it possibly be because of all the Public Sector workers clustered around our nation's capital? You just proved "my" point about the Obama Stimulus. The stimulus that hung the Private Sector out to dry while it propped up Public Sector workers. The reason that Virginia's unemployment rate has remained so low is that the Federal Government was ADDING employees while people in the Private Sector everywhere else in the country were getting canned.

Wrong.

I iive in Virginia Beach.

Nice try though.

What else have you got?

 

[Chris]

And as far as 401Ks are concerned, the stock market has almost doubled since the stimulus.

Correction: The stock market has almost doubled in spite of the stimulus.

As if there were any correlation betweent the stimulus and the stock market.

But you know all about economics.

You really are not much on history.....except useless ancient history as it does not pertain to current situations.

You are a fraud.

Glad you finally got something right.

The stock market HAS almost doubled since the stimulus.

 

[KissMy]

Wreckovery = Obama's Depression

 

[Chris]

What's amusing, Chris is that I was going to guess that you had to be in the DC area if you thought real estate wasn't depressed. Gee, I wonder why Virginia's unemployment rate is SO low? Could it possibly be because of all the Public Sector workers clustered around our nation's capital? You just proved "my" point about the Obama Stimulus. The stimulus that hung the Private Sector out to dry while it propped up Public Sector workers. The reason that Virginia's unemployment rate has remained so low is that the Federal Government was ADDING employees while people in the Private Sector everywhere else in the country were getting canned.

That is the nice thing abour regional economics.

You can still get by quite well with your head up your ass.

I now have a better understanding why Chris likes the way things have been going with Obama in charge. He makes money because he's a Realtor in an area that's benefited from Big Government. No wonder he's so resistant to cuts in spending and sound fiscal policy. One wonders if he'd feel so great about the economy if he were a Realtor in Arizona, Florida or Nevada?

You really can't get anything right can you? I don't live in the DC area and the reason I do well is that I work seven days a week.

But this is what conservatives do when they can't win an argument. They resort to personal attacks.

 

[Listening]

Glad you finally got something right.

The stock market HAS almost doubled since the stimulus.

And you could make a better argument that it was due to the state fairs that followed rather than the piss-poor anything-but-a-stimulus that the federal government put forth.

When do you finally get something right ?

 

[Oldstyle]

That is the nice thing abour regional economics.

You can still get by quite well with your head up your ass.

I now have a better understanding why Chris likes the way things have been going with Obama in charge. He makes money because he's a Realtor in an area that's benefited from Big Government. No wonder he's so resistant to cuts in spending and sound fiscal policy. One wonders if he'd feel so great about the economy if he were a Realtor in Arizona, Florida or Nevada?

You really can't get anything right can you? I don't live in the DC area and the reason I do well is that I work seven days a week.

But this is what conservatives do when they can't win an argument. They resort to personal attacks.

Just curious, Chris...since you're a Realtor from the Virginia Beach area, I assume you've got no problem with the massive cuts to defense spending that your fellow progressives are calling for since that's what props up the economy in your area? What have you got...a dozen bases in your backyard? So what's going to happen to your little "dream economy" if the military cuts your fellow liberals are calling for ever go through? Realtors who do business in college towns, towns with military bases and government centers have been protected in large part from the hit everyone else took. Last time I was in that area they had military bases EVERYWHERE. So if they start closing down or downsizing those bases how do you think that's going to affect real estate prices in Virginia? If that ever were to happen then Norfolk/Virginia Beach is going to get a dose of the reality that everyone else has been dealing with for the past three years. Let's see how much money you'll be making then.

 

[Listening]

Just curious, Chris...since you're a Realtor from the Virginia Beach area, I assume you've got no problem with the massive cuts to defense spending that your fellow progressives are calling for since that's what props up the economy in your area? What have you got...a dozen bases in your backyard? So what's going to happen to your little "dream economy" if the military cuts your fellow liberals are calling for ever go through? Realtors who do business in college towns, towns with military bases and government centers have been protected in large part from the hit everyone else took. Last time I was in that area they had military bases EVERYWHERE. So if they start closing down or downsizing those bases how do you think that's going to affect real estate prices in Virginia? If that ever were to happen then Norfolk/Virginia Beach is going to get a dose of the reality that everyone else has been dealing with for the past three years. Let's see how much money you'll be making then.

And that is the point, isn't it. The government does create false economies all the time.

What you point out is true but real estate agents can only take advantage of the hands they are played. If times are good, they do well.

If the government pulls out....it is a royal flush. That is why base closing are such a painful and political mess.

In some ways you can't avoid it.

But.....

What about things like GM where the bankruptcy and failure should have been allowed to happen ? When there are base closings, the government often seeks to lessen the pain.

In this case, the propped up a poor deal and painted it a different color all to keep union votes. Now GM workers are getting into line (new workers are making much less than they would have under the old system....) but that would have happened anyway. The economies of the area would adjust and life would go on.

But when the government stands to decide who lives and dies....well that is when all the liberal diasiy chains form up in D.C.

But Chris knows ecoomics !!!

 

[Jarhead]

That is the nice thing abour regional economics.

You can still get by quite well with your head up your ass.

I now have a better understanding why Chris likes the way things have been going with Obama in charge. He makes money because he's a Realtor in an area that's benefited from Big Government. No wonder he's so resistant to cuts in spending and sound fiscal policy. One wonders if he'd feel so great about the economy if he were a Realtor in Arizona, Florida or Nevada?

You really can't get anything right can you? I don't live in the DC area and the reason I do well is that I work seven days a week.

But this is what conservatives do when they can't win an argument. They resort to personal attacks.

I dont see that as an attack Chris.
It is a prsumption based on the facts you offered him.
Truth is, the VB area is largely supported by government...
Without military bases, you may have a much more depressed area....
Now...dont go into "we have our beaches"...

Been to Asbury Park in NJ lately?

 

[Oldstyle]

Just curious, Chris...since you're a Realtor from the Virginia Beach area, I assume you've got no problem with the massive cuts to defense spending that your fellow progressives are calling for since that's what props up the economy in your area? What have you got...a dozen bases in your backyard? So what's going to happen to your little "dream economy" if the military cuts your fellow liberals are calling for ever go through? Realtors who do business in college towns, towns with military bases and government centers have been protected in large part from the hit everyone else took. Last time I was in that area they had military bases EVERYWHERE. So if they start closing down or downsizing those bases how do you think that's going to affect real estate prices in Virginia? If that ever were to happen then Norfolk/Virginia Beach is going to get a dose of the reality that everyone else has been dealing with for the past three years. Let's see how much money you'll be making then.

And that is the point, isn't it. The government does create false economies all the time.

What you point out is true but real estate agents can only take advantage of the hands they are played. If times are good, they do well.

If the government pulls out....it is a royal flush. That is why base closing are such a painful and political mess.

In some ways you can't avoid it.

But.....

What about things like GM where the bankruptcy and failure should have been allowed to happen ? When there are base closings, the government often seeks to lessen the pain.

In this case, the propped up a poor deal and painted it a different color all to keep union votes. Now GM workers are getting into line (new workers are making much less than they would have under the old system....) but that would have happened anyway. The economies of the area would adjust and life would go on.

But when the government stands to decide who lives and dies....well that is when all the liberal diasiy chains form up in D.C.

But Chris knows ecoomics !!!

I'm just amused that a dyed in the wool liberal like Chris is able to make money BECAUSE of the dozen or so military bases and dozens of defense contractors that are based where he lives yet progressives on this board are constantly calling for deep cuts to defense spending...something that would absolutely cripple an area like Hampton Roads. I wonder what 'ole Chris is for when he's lying in bed at night dreaming of big closings and fat commission checks. I also wonder what Chris' response would be if "income equality" was brought to real estate and commissions were divided evenly amongst his office's brokers despite who sold a house or who booked a listing. Funny how it's usually unfair if someone else is getting more money...yet deserved if you are.

 

[Chris]

Just curious, Chris...since you're a Realtor from the Virginia Beach area, I assume you've got no problem with the massive cuts to defense spending that your fellow progressives are calling for since that's what props up the economy in your area? What have you got...a dozen bases in your backyard? So what's going to happen to your little "dream economy" if the military cuts your fellow liberals are calling for ever go through? Realtors who do business in college towns, towns with military bases and government centers have been protected in large part from the hit everyone else took. Last time I was in that area they had military bases EVERYWHERE. So if they start closing down or downsizing those bases how do you think that's going to affect real estate prices in Virginia? If that ever were to happen then Norfolk/Virginia Beach is going to get a dose of the reality that everyone else has been dealing with for the past three years. Let's see how much money you'll be making then.

And that is the point, isn't it. The government does create false economies all the time.

What you point out is true but real estate agents can only take advantage of the hands they are played. If times are good, they do well.

If the government pulls out....it is a royal flush. That is why base closing are such a painful and political mess.

In some ways you can't avoid it.

But.....

What about things like GM where the bankruptcy and failure should have been allowed to happen ? When there are base closings, the government often seeks to lessen the pain.

In this case, the propped up a poor deal and painted it a different color all to keep union votes. Now GM workers are getting into line (new workers are making much less than they would have under the old system....) but that would have happened anyway. The economies of the area would adjust and life would go on.

But when the government stands to decide who lives and dies....well that is when all the liberal diasiy chains form up in D.C.

But Chris knows ecoomics !!!

I'm just amused that a dyed in the wool liberal like Chris is able to make money BECAUSE of the dozen or so military bases and dozens of defense contractors that are based where he lives yet progressives on this board are constantly calling for deep cuts to defense spending...something that would absolutely cripple an area like Hampton Roads. I wonder what 'ole Chris is for when he's lying in bed at night dreaming of big closings and fat commission checks. I also wonder what Chris' response would be if "income equality" was brought to real estate and commissions were divided evenly amongst his office's brokers despite who sold a house or who booked a listing. Funny how it's usually unfair if someone else is getting more money...yet deserved if you are.

You couldn't win the argument about Obama, so you attack me.

How lame.

And hard working realtors always make money. Why? Because housing is a universal human need.

You really don't know much about economics, do you?

 

[Chris]

I now have a better understanding why Chris likes the way things have been going with Obama in charge. He makes money because he's a Realtor in an area that's benefited from Big Government. No wonder he's so resistant to cuts in spending and sound fiscal policy. One wonders if he'd feel so great about the economy if he were a Realtor in Arizona, Florida or Nevada?

You really can't get anything right can you? I don't live in the DC area and the reason I do well is that I work seven days a week.

But this is what conservatives do when they can't win an argument. They resort to personal attacks.

I dont see that as an attack Chris.
It is a prsumption based on the facts you offered him.
Truth is, the VB area is largely supported by government...
Without military bases, you may have a much more depressed area....
Now...dont go into "we have our beaches"...

Been to Asbury Park in NJ lately?

So government spending is good for the economy?

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Listening]

You really can't get anything right can you? I don't live in the DC area and the reason I do well is that I work seven days a week.

But this is what conservatives do when they can't win an argument. They resort to personal attacks.

I dont see that as an attack Chris.
It is a prsumption based on the facts you offered him.
Truth is, the VB area is largely supported by government...
Without military bases, you may have a much more depressed area....
Now...dont go into "we have our beaches"...

Been to Asbury Park in NJ lately?

So government spending is good for the economy?

Thanks for proving my point.

Your posts are not looking any smarter.

That wasn't his point and he is not supporting yours.

Ask all those people in places where bases close....how much they appreciated being tied to government spending. When it goes away...they are stuck.

Oh...that proves government spending is good.

Fantastic....why not lobby to have all our income taxed 100%...and the government can spend it. If some is good....more is better.

Kinda like heroine.

You are a fraud.

 

[Chris]

I dont see that as an attack Chris.
It is a prsumption based on the facts you offered him.
Truth is, the VB area is largely supported by government...
Without military bases, you may have a much more depressed area....
Now...dont go into "we have our beaches"...

Been to Asbury Park in NJ lately?

So government spending is good for the economy?

Thanks for proving my point.

Your posts are not looking any smarter.

That wasn't his point and he is not supporting yours.

Ask all those people in places where bases close....how much they appreciated being tied to government spending. When it goes away...they are stuck.

Oh...that proves government spending is good.

Fantastic....why not lobby to have all our income taxed 100%...and the government can spend it. If some is good....more is better.

Kinda like heroine.

You are a fraud.

First you argue that government can't stimulate the economy.

Then you argue that government spending is good for an economy.

You can't have it both ways.

Thanks for making it easy.

 

[elvis]

So government spending is good for the economy?

Thanks for proving my point.

Your posts are not looking any smarter.

That wasn't his point and he is not supporting yours.

Ask all those people in places where bases close....how much they appreciated being tied to government spending. When it goes away...they are stuck.

Oh...that proves government spending is good.

Fantastic....why not lobby to have all our income taxed 100%...and the government can spend it. If some is good....more is better.

Kinda like heroine.

You are a fraud.

First you argue that government can't stimulate the economy.

Then you argue that government spending is good for an economy.

You can't have it both ways.

Thanks for making it easy.

How long did it take for rdean to make you easy?

 

[Listening]

So government spending is good for the economy?

Thanks for proving my point.

Your posts are not looking any smarter.

That wasn't his point and he is not supporting yours.

Ask all those people in places where bases close....how much they appreciated being tied to government spending. When it goes away...they are stuck.

Oh...that proves government spending is good.

Fantastic....why not lobby to have all our income taxed 100%...and the government can spend it. If some is good....more is better.

Kinda like heroine.

You are a fraud.

First you argue that government can't stimulate the economy.

Then you argue that government spending is good for an economy.

You can't have it both ways.

Thanks for making it easy.

I understand you live in your own little world.

But the rest of us have this nasty habit of expecting citations when someone makes a claim like you have.

It shouldn't be that hard...but you rarely seem to do it. Fortunately, I don't have 15 year old posts (like the articles you cited on the refinery argument) that you can appeal to.

Are you reading an Alan Colmes book are you ?

He has a nasty habit of making stuff up that only he could believe and then presenting it as fact.....

Let's see what you're talking about.

 

[Chris]

Your posts are not looking any smarter.

That wasn't his point and he is not supporting yours.

Ask all those people in places where bases close....how much they appreciated being tied to government spending. When it goes away...they are stuck.

Oh...that proves government spending is good.

Fantastic....why not lobby to have all our income taxed 100%...and the government can spend it. If some is good....more is better.

Kinda like heroine.

You are a fraud.

First you argue that government can't stimulate the economy.

Then you argue that government spending is good for an economy.

You can't have it both ways.

Thanks for making it easy.

I understand you live in your own little world.

But the rest of us have this nasty habit of expecting citations when someone makes a claim like you have.

It shouldn't be that hard...but you rarely seem to do it. Fortunately, I don't have 15 year old posts (like the articles you cited on the refinery argument) that you can appeal to.

Are you reading an Alan Colmes book are you ?

He has a nasty habit of making stuff up that only he could believe and then presenting it as fact.....

Let's see what you're talking about.

Nothing but personal insults.

You have nothing.

You are done.

 

[Oldstyle]

First you argue that government can't stimulate the economy.

Then you argue that government spending is good for an economy.

You can't have it both ways.

Thanks for making it easy.

I understand you live in your own little world.

But the rest of us have this nasty habit of expecting citations when someone makes a claim like you have.

It shouldn't be that hard...but you rarely seem to do it. Fortunately, I don't have 15 year old posts (like the articles you cited on the refinery argument) that you can appeal to.

Are you reading an Alan Colmes book are you ?

He has a nasty habit of making stuff up that only he could believe and then presenting it as fact.....

Let's see what you're talking about.

Nothing but personal insults.

You have nothing.

You are done.

Here's the problem with government spending, Chris...in order to spend it, the government must first TAKE IT from someone else. That money that props up all those military bases in "your" area? Before the government can spend that money in the Hampton Roads it first has to seize it from someone in the Private Sector. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul. The government spending that helps "your" economy invariably hurts the economy of someone else.

 

[Chris]

I understand you live in your own little world.

But the rest of us have this nasty habit of expecting citations when someone makes a claim like you have.

It shouldn't be that hard...but you rarely seem to do it. Fortunately, I don't have 15 year old posts (like the articles you cited on the refinery argument) that you can appeal to.

Are you reading an Alan Colmes book are you ?

He has a nasty habit of making stuff up that only he could believe and then presenting it as fact.....

Let's see what you're talking about.

Nothing but personal insults.

You have nothing.

You are done.

Here's the problem with government spending, Chris...in order to spend it, the government must first TAKE IT from someone else. That money that props up all those military bases in "your" area? Before the government can spend that money in the Hampton Roads it first has to seize it from someone in the Private Sector. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul. The government spending that helps "your" economy invariably hurts the economy of someone else.

So you want to cut military spending.

I'm all for that.

Bill Clinton raised taxes on the rich and cut military spending and balanced the federal budget. What a concept!

And then Bush cut taxes for the rich and started two useless wars which doubled the National Debt.

So lets repeal the Bush tax cuts and cut the military budget.

 

[Oldstyle]

And that is the point, isn't it. The government does create false economies all the time.

What you point out is true but real estate agents can only take advantage of the hands they are played. If times are good, they do well.

If the government pulls out....it is a royal flush. That is why base closing are such a painful and political mess.

In some ways you can't avoid it.

But.....

What about things like GM where the bankruptcy and failure should have been allowed to happen ? When there are base closings, the government often seeks to lessen the pain.

In this case, the propped up a poor deal and painted it a different color all to keep union votes. Now GM workers are getting into line (new workers are making much less than they would have under the old system....) but that would have happened anyway. The economies of the area would adjust and life would go on.

But when the government stands to decide who lives and dies....well that is when all the liberal diasiy chains form up in D.C.

But Chris knows ecoomics !!!

I'm just amused that a dyed in the wool liberal like Chris is able to make money BECAUSE of the dozen or so military bases and dozens of defense contractors that are based where he lives yet progressives on this board are constantly calling for deep cuts to defense spending...something that would absolutely cripple an area like Hampton Roads. I wonder what 'ole Chris is for when he's lying in bed at night dreaming of big closings and fat commission checks. I also wonder what Chris' response would be if "income equality" was brought to real estate and commissions were divided evenly amongst his office's brokers despite who sold a house or who booked a listing. Funny how it's usually unfair if someone else is getting more money...yet deserved if you are.

You couldn't win the argument about Obama, so you attack me.

How lame.

And hard working realtors always make money. Why? Because housing is a universal human need.

You really don't know much about economics, do you?

Pointing out that you have a vested interest in big government spending, Chris...isn't an "attack" on you. It's simply an observation. Housing may be a universal need but that doesn't mean that the housing market is always hot. When you've got people unable to get credit...people having full time jobs reduced to part time hours...banks stung by a glut of foreclosures...college graduates unable to find work in their chosen field...the housing market doesn't boom it busts.