How Many Gays Must God Create Before We Accept That He Wants Them Around?

[The Irish Ram]

No they didn't. Why would anyone "choose" to be homosexual in a culture that, for the most part, is against their very way of life?

Being against something you don't understand, that's pretty typical bud.

People make stupid and ridiculous choices all the time.

They sure do (duh?) and some people are born differently than others.

Odd that so many are being born in this politically correct, "new normal" era.

 

[bodecea]

What god?

The one who was made flesh, born of a virgin, taught in Judea and Samaria, called Twelve Apostles, organized a Church, Atoned and died for the sins of the world, rising on the Third day.

He sacrificed Himself for you, for rdean, for every gay man and woman, indeed, everyone who has ever and will ever live. The one who loves you even when you spit in His eyes and mock Him.

What's the sacrifice if you can't die? From the sounds of it....hardly a sacrifice, just attention grabbing.

 

[bodecea]

People make stupid and ridiculous choices all the time.

They sure do (duh?) and some people are born differently than others.

Odd that so many are being born in this politically correct, "new normal" era.

No more or less than any other time. We're just not so willing to hide in the closet for your delicate sensibilites anymore.

 

[Avatar4321]

No they didn't. Why would anyone "choose" to be homosexual in a culture that, for the most part, is against their very way of life?

Being against something you don't understand, that's pretty typical bud.

People make stupid and ridiculous choices all the time.

They sure do (duh?) and some people are born differently than others.

Actually, everyone is born differently than others. We are all unique individuals. And we all make different choices in different aspects of your life.

Despite that, your argument "No one would choose it because the consequences are unpleasant" is still unsupported and illogical because people do things that are stupid, crazy, illogical, and unsafe all the time.

Personally, I think the choice vs nature debate is a distraction. Our nature is in a fallen State due to the fall. We do alot of things naturally that are wrong. It's natural to lie, to be violent, to be intolerant. It's natural to hate, to kill, to do all kinds of wrong things. Right and wrong isnt determined by what is natural and what is not. Nor does our natural inclinations override our ability to choose what we do and how we act.

It also fundamentally ignores the entire premise of Christianity which is that because of our fallen nature, we make mistakes and do wrong things. The good news of the Gospel is that Jesus Christ atoned and died for the sins of the world and that through Him we can all put off our natural man and be born again by yielding to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and submitting ourselves to God.

One of my favorite sermons of all times talks about the Born again process. There is a quote I love from it that seems relevant to make my point:

The Lord works from the inside out. The world works from the outside in. The world would take people out of the slums. Christ takes the slums out of people, and then they take themselves out of the slums. The world would mold men by changing their environment. Christ changes men, who then change their environment. The world would shape human behavior, but Christ can change human nature.

“Human nature can be changed, here and now,” said President McKay, and then he quoted the following:

“‘You can change human nature. No man who has felt in him the Spirit of Christ even for half a minute can deny this truth. …

“‘You do change human nature, your own human nature, if you surrender it to Christ. Human nature can be changed here and now. Human nature has been changed in the past. Human nature must be changed on an enormous scale in the future, unless the world is to be drowned in its own blood. And only Christ can change it.

“‘Twelve men did quite a lot to change the world [nineteen hundred] years ago. Twelve simple men.’” (Quoting Beverly Nichols, in Stepping Stones to an Abundant Life, comp. Llewelyn R. McKay, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1971, pp. 23, 127.) Born of God - Ezra Taft Benson

I know the power of the Atonement. It's changed my nature. Ive had addictions that were part of my very nature. Through fasting, prayer and through the grace of God, my addictions were overcome. Not only were they overcome, but I have no desire to engage in them. The Temptation is not even there any more. I tried to beat them many times on my own. It was only when the Lord changed my naturethat these addictions went away. And I will always be grateful for the Lord for that, because I am freer than I was without the Lord.

Miracles happen. My life is a testimony to that.

 

[Avatar4321]

What god?

The one who was made flesh, born of a virgin, taught in Judea and Samaria, called Twelve Apostles, organized a Church, Atoned and died for the sins of the world, rising on the Third day.

He sacrificed Himself for you, for rdean, for every gay man and woman, indeed, everyone who has ever and will ever live. The one who loves you even when you spit in His eyes and mock Him.

You're just going to confuse him

I dont know about that. If he is open to the Spirit, the Lord can make things very clear. Ive seen God crack tougher shells. I was a natural skeptic before the Lord revealed Himself to me through His Spirit.

 

[Avatar4321]

What's the sacrifice if you can't die? From the sounds of it....hardly a sacrifice, just attention grabbing.

But He did die. He voluntarily laid His life down. And after preaching to the dead for 3 days took it back up, freeing all of the human raise from the chains of death. We all will die, but because of Christ, we will all live again in the Resurrection from the dead.

I dont think you are using the correct definition of sacrifice anyway. The key to the meaning is in the root of the word, which means sacred.

 

[Noomi]

Yes they do and again not a good idea. And yes infertile couples have sex with no children but their bodies function properly for sexual activity. Anal intercourse involves a lot of artificial means to make it happen and a good prayer that no damage is done because after you make a rip in your anal cavity there are more problems than just the embarrassment of being found out. It was bit designed for the purpose of sex and there is a lot of bacteria there and if it is damaged or torn there is a good possibility of wearing a diaper for the Reston your life and massive infection leaking into the rest of your body.

Please produce one person who has had to wear an adult diaper as a result of too much anal sex.
I shall wait here for you.

 

[Noomi]

Gay's are still an abomination to God.

That would true if you could prove God existed.

Illogical.

If God exists, He exists whether or not His existence is "proven" to your satisfaction.

If an opinion is taken on the basis that God exists, you must prove God exists in order to make your opinion valid. If you can't prove God exists, your thread is invalid and therefore useless.

 

[Gadawg73]

I have a hard time following your logic. Old Testament is attributed to Jewish laws of which some are ignored or irrelevant. The New Testament is attributed to the authors themselves and you place Romans in a context to suit your own beliefs, thus dismissing your earlier inaccurate statement that the New Testament does not address homosexuality.

Although the Bible was written by men, the Bible states all scripture is inspired by God.

In answer to the thread question of how many homosexuals must God create the answer would be one. One might as well question how many pedophiles must God create, or how many murderers, or how many thieves. The fact is, that according to the Bible we live in a fallen world and because of this sin abounds. One of those sins, as mentioned in the Bible, is homosexuality.

It is one thing to make argument that since there is freedom of religion, adherring to Biblical principles to not grant homosexual marriage is a breach of this freedom. The counter argument is that such prohibition is for the good of society and is common to multiple religions. However, attempting to shape Christianity to suit one's lifestyle is dishonest.

Go ahead and believe what you want, fine with me.
But my church does not believe that and we are not so arrogant to claim that we are right and you are wrong.
Go ahead and hold the Bible and claim what you want. Have at it.
I believe differently. You are an arrogant son of a ***** to call my beliefs dishonest while demanding respect for yours.

It is sad when one results to name calling and it is an indication that they have run out of ideas. Your belief that homosexuality in not mentioned in the New Testament when it clearly does state homosexuality is wrong is dishonest and I believe is an attempt to shape your belief to your life style. When one does so, one is shaping God to their own image of what they believe God should be, an act of convenience and ultimately arrogant as the creator of the universe does not revolve around your lifestyle.

And why the name calling? Simply because I stated my beliefs which are derived from the clear text of the Bible. It would appear that anyone who states an opinion that differs from your own or that of the church you attend is branded arrogant by you.

I can understand frustration of homosexuals being denied the right to marry. They desire a similar right that heterosexuals have in our society, not the same, but similar. However such an argument should not be a religious one. My concern is when homosexuals argue the Bible does not state what it actually does state and when they brand Christians as intolerant and hateful for simply following what they believe to be the clear instruction of the Bible. It would seem that the homosexual community, which claims victimhood of intolerance, is itself intolerant.

"I believe is an attempt to shape your belief to your life style".
Typical knee jerk Bible thumper response.
I am a 57 year old married straight southern red neck white male.
My life style is beer drinkin, bacco chewin, deer huntin, fishin, whttling, plowing, planting, yard mowing, running 3 corporations, treating ALL of my neighbors with love and raised 3 children.
Your entire post is on the lines of "your lifestyle" bull shit.
My previous references to "arrogant" are proven with your own words.
One day you kooks will wake up and see what fools you are for treating gay folk like 2nd class citizens holding up a book with your selective passages of "See, it says so here."
I follow Jesus. He never said a word about homosexuals.
A true Christian never has to go around with a J on his forehead "Hey, I am a Christian, here I am." People will know it how CHRISTLIKE you are.
Love thy neighbor. Jesus never said otherwise and never distinguished between gay and straight like you do.

 

[Gadawg73]

Try a little hard.
Romans 1
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

You need to try a little harder.
That is Paul speaking in Romans to the Jews who he is trying to sweet talk.
That was not God speaking in Romans.

Yes, it was God speaking. And he didn't change his mind in an effort to be politically correct.
He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Must be some other spirit convincing men that they should sleep with men.

No It was Paul speaking.
And you need a litle bit of a history lesson of Paul and his journeys.

 

[barry1960]

You need to try a little harder.
That is Paul speaking in Romans to the Jews who he is trying to sweet talk.
That was not God speaking in Romans.

Yes, it was God speaking. And he didn't change his mind in an effort to be politically correct.
He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Must be some other spirit convincing men that they should sleep with men.

No It was Paul speaking.
And you need a litle bit of a history lesson of Paul and his journeys.

But it was also the apostle Paul, under the inspiration of God who wrote "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Therefore Romans 1:26-27, although authored by Paul, is also God-inspired and must be considered the very words of God.

Now you may respond with yet another ad hominem attack as is your manner.

 

[Liability]

That would true if you could prove God existed.

Illogical.

If God exists, He exists whether or not His existence is "proven" to your satisfaction.

If an opinion is taken on the basis that God exists, you must prove God exists in order to make your opinion valid. If you can't prove God exists, your thread is invalid and therefore useless.

Well, you have at least demonstrated your lack of comprehension of basic logic and debate.


Your post is gibberish. What "opinion" is taken?

The premise of the argument set forth in the OP, noomz, was that God creates gays.

What YOU chose to do was to (attempt to) ALTER the premise to craft some modification of the argument itself.

It also is not "my" thread.

And opinions are "valid" whether you agree with them or not. Syllogisms can be invalid. Premises and conclusions can be false. But opinions are not subject to those standards.

Basically, everything in your post is incorrect.

Carry on.

 

[bodecea]

What's the sacrifice if you can't die? From the sounds of it....hardly a sacrifice, just attention grabbing.

But He did die. He voluntarily laid His life down. And after preaching to the dead for 3 days took it back up, freeing all of the human raise from the chains of death. We all will die, but because of Christ, we will all live again in the Resurrection from the dead.

I dont think you are using the correct definition of sacrifice anyway. The key to the meaning is in the root of the word, which means sacred.

No, your god cannot die....it was grandstanding......if it happened at all.

 

[Gadawg73]

Yes, it was God speaking. And he didn't change his mind in an effort to be politically correct.
He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Must be some other spirit convincing men that they should sleep with men.

No It was Paul speaking.
And you need a litle bit of a history lesson of Paul and his journeys.

But it was also the apostle Paul, under the inspiration of God who wrote "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Therefore Romans 1:26-27, although authored by Paul, is also God-inspired and must be considered the very words of God.

Now you may respond with yet another ad hominem attack as is your manner.

Not what my church believes.
I respect your opinion but when you enter into "You are dishonest and your lifestyle this ands that and you are wrong, your views and beliefs are not Christian enough" BS I will attack at will.
I respect all beliefs until OTHERS DO NOT RESPECT my beliefs.
Paul was a man and not God.
How come my words are not "God inspired"?

 

[Avatar4321]

What's the sacrifice if you can't die? From the sounds of it....hardly a sacrifice, just attention grabbing.

But He did die. He voluntarily laid His life down. And after preaching to the dead for 3 days took it back up, freeing all of the human raise from the chains of death. We all will die, but because of Christ, we will all live again in the Resurrection from the dead.

I dont think you are using the correct definition of sacrifice anyway. The key to the meaning is in the root of the word, which means sacred.

No, your god cannot die....it was grandstanding......if it happened at all.

He died the same way we all will. And He returned from the dead the same way we all will, becaue He enabled it.

 

[barry1960]

No It was Paul speaking.
And you need a litle bit of a history lesson of Paul and his journeys.

But it was also the apostle Paul, under the inspiration of God who wrote "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Therefore Romans 1:26-27, although authored by Paul, is also God-inspired and must be considered the very words of God.

Now you may respond with yet another ad hominem attack as is your manner.

Not what my church believes.
I respect your opinion but when you enter into "You are dishonest and your lifestyle this ands that and you are wrong, your views and beliefs are not Christian enough" BS I will attack at will.
I respect all beliefs until OTHERS DO NOT RESPECT my beliefs.
Paul was a man and not God.
How come my words are not "God inspired"?

Your words are not considered "God inspired" because they are not recorded in the Bible. All SCRIPTURE is inspired by God.

Your original comment that the new testament does not comment on the issue of homosexuality was inaccurate at best and dishonest at worst.

In my opinion the doctrine of your church does not conform to the instruction of the Bible.

Now I misspoke about your lifestyle. However there are those who allow their belief in God to be shaped by their lifestyle. Those who do are shaping God into their own image.

You seem to be confusing my disagreement with your beliefs as a disrespect of your beliefs. Your personal attacks as a result of my disagreement then become a disrespect of my beliefs since they differ from their own. Of course I believe we are entitled to differing opinions, do you?

Now while we disagree on the interpretation of Bible, I believe we may agree on several items:

1) Christ commands Christians to love others including those in the homosexual community. Loving others does not mean condoning their lifestyle, but it does mean we do not mistreat others.

2) The Christian community seems to focus on homosexuality while there are sins mentioned in the Bible that make Christians less comfortable. Off the top of my head - adultery, fornication, gluttony, and rampant materialism. Perhaps Christians focus on homosexuality because focusing on these other sins mandates lifestyle change that makes them less comfortable.

3) There is a civic argument regarding equal rights regarding homosexual marriage. The United States is a democratic republic and not a theocracy. In fact the bill of rights speaks of the government not establishing a religion. The danger is that if we enforce Christian beliefs because we are the majority, does that allow the mandating of Islamic beliefs in the future should those who practice Islam be in a position of power?

 

[The Irish Ram]

You need to try a little harder.
That is Paul speaking in Romans to the Jews who he is trying to sweet talk.
That was not God speaking in Romans.

Yes, it was God speaking. And he didn't change his mind in an effort to be politically correct.
He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Must be some other spirit convincing men that they should sleep with men.

No It was Paul speaking.
And you need a litle bit of a history lesson of Paul and his journeys.

No lesson needed. Paul spoke for God. And was bold about it. He wasn't prone to sweet talk.

Bodeca, you seem to believe God is limited. That there are things He can't do.
There is a wealth of secular history that proves Christ was indeed dead when He was removed from the cross. and Christ said "if you have seen me you have seen the father".
"the father and I are one." Then He came back to prove it.
Tell me what else you think God can't do. ............

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That would true if you could prove God existed.

Illogical.

If God exists, He exists whether or not His existence is "proven" to your satisfaction.

If an opinion is taken on the basis that God exists, you must prove God exists in order to make your opinion valid. If you can't prove God exists, your thread is invalid and therefore useless.

For the purpose of this thread since the OP thinks God does exist your point is moot.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You need to try a little harder.
That is Paul speaking in Romans to the Jews who he is trying to sweet talk.
That was not God speaking in Romans.

Yes, it was God speaking. And he didn't change his mind in an effort to be politically correct.
He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Must be some other spirit convincing men that they should sleep with men.

No It was Paul speaking.
And you need a litle bit of a history lesson of Paul and his journeys.

So God was speaking in the old testament but not the new testament? Why would God change his mind on the homosexual lifestyle? Or did gays change mans mind on God?

I will have to point out one more time that was not what you said about it being God saying it. You said their is nothing mentioned about gays in the New Testament.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No It was Paul speaking.
And you need a litle bit of a history lesson of Paul and his journeys.

But it was also the apostle Paul, under the inspiration of God who wrote "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Therefore Romans 1:26-27, although authored by Paul, is also God-inspired and must be considered the very words of God.

Now you may respond with yet another ad hominem attack as is your manner.

Not what my church believes.
I respect your opinion but when you enter into "You are dishonest and your lifestyle this ands that and you are wrong, your views and beliefs are not Christian enough" BS I will attack at will.
I respect all beliefs until OTHERS DO NOT RESPECT my beliefs.
Paul was a man and not God.
How come my words are not "God inspired"?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness