How Israel Used Its Own Civilians as Human Shields While Assaulting Gaza

[toastman]

In post 19 I explained in detail what we mean when we say that Hamas used human shields.
Read it and you will see that there is no comparison to the crap you're trying to prove...

I went back and read it. Your "explanations", are just hypotheticals, not proof!

When Hamas launches rockets from a civilian building, Israeli artillery has the technology to launch shells to where the fire came from (which Hamas knows).

I've not seen any rockets being launched from civilian buildings. That's just conjecture on your part. You need to show evidence they have.

You've not seen them? How many of The thousands of rockets launched at Israel have you seen? IDF provides many videos of them launching from civilian areas and you always claim it's not enough proof. But a claim against Israel is made, you eat it right up!

And if what you say is true about the accuracy of their artillery, then why is it, they shelled the al Wafu hospital that was a 100 meters from where the rockets went off?

I guess you missed the articles where reporters said rockets were being launched from just outside the hospital. Also, even the best artillery will have errant shells. Stupid question.

Storing weapons does not make them a legal target. There has to be an imminent threat to military personnel. And a stored weapon is not an imminent threat.

In a war, yes it does. If Israel knows where Hamas weapons are stored, why the **** would they jot destroy them?? All Hamas weapons are a threat to Israel, since Hamas always attacks Israel you deluded retard!

That's conjecture. That's what YOU think, Hamas thinks. It doesn't prove jack shit!

Of course Hamas would never store their weapons or fire their rockets from open areas.

Who the **** in their right mind, would do that?

You don't get out much, do you?

When I say open areas, I mean in buildings or tunnels in open areas where there are no civilians.

That would make Israel's job so easy, and their would be no dead Palestinians to parade in front of news cameras.

Bullshit! Israel deliberately targets innocent civilians.

Really? Show me proof that civilians have been the target of any attack ?

 

[Billo_Really]

You've not seen them? How many of The thousands of rockets launched at Israel have you seen? IDF provides many videos of them launching from civilian areas and you always claim it's not enough proof. But a claim against Israel is made, you eat it right up!

I don't see them launched from the facilities you say they're launched from.

I guess you missed the articles where reporters said rockets were being launched from just outside the hospital. Also, even the best artillery will have errant shells. Stupid question.

That was 100 meters away. The length of a football field.

In a war, yes it does. If Israel knows where Hamas weapons are stored, why the **** would they jot destroy them?? All Hamas weapons are a threat to Israel, since Hamas always attacks Israel you deluded retard!

Hamas only attacks Israel, when it is attacked by Israel.

I already proven this in the other thread.

When I say open areas, I mean in buildings or tunnels in open areas where there are no civilians.

The only open areas like that, are between your ears.

Really? Show me proof that civilians have been the target of any attack ?

Oh, please! That's like saying gravity plays no role in plane crashes.

Mounting Evidence of Deliberate Attacks on Gaza Health Workers by Israeli Army

Hospitals, doctors and ambulance staff, including those trying to evacuate people injured in Israeli attacks, have come under increased fire since 17 July.

You need to shit can this deer in the headlights reaction of yours, because I don't buy it.

War crimes

(1) Willful killing: Israeli forces have killed nearly 2,000 Palestinians (more than 400 children and over 80% civilians).

(2) Willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health: Nearly 10,000 people, 2,500 of them children, have been wounded.

(3) Unlawful and wanton, extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified by military necessity: Tens of thousands of Palestinians have lost their homes. More than 1,300 buildings were destroyed and 752 were severely damaged. Damage to sewer and water infrastructure has affected two-thirds of Gazans. On July 20, Israeli forces virtually flattened the small town of Khuza'a; one man counted 360 shell attacks in one hour.

(4) Willfully depriving a prisoner of war or a civilian the rights of fair and regular trial: Nearly 2,000 Palestinians were arrested by Israeli forces during July 2014, according to the Palestinian Prisoners Center for Studies. Prisoners include 15 members of the Palestinian Legislative Council, about 240 children, dozens of women, journalists, activists, academics and 62 former prisoners previously released in a prisoner exchange. Israeli forces executed many prisoners after arrest, either by directly firing on them, refusing to allow treatment or allowing them to bleed to death. More than 445 prisoners are being held without charge or trial under administrative detention.

(5) Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population, civilian objects, or humanitarian vehicles, installations and personnel: "The civilian population in the Gaza Strip is under direct attack," reads a joint declaration of over 150 international law experts. Israeli forces violated the principle of "distinction," which forbids deliberate attacks on civilians or civilian objects. Israeli forces bombed 142 schools (89 run by the UN), including six UN schools in which civilians were taking refuge. Israeli forces shot and killed fleeing civilians (warnings, which must effectively give civilians time to flee before bombing, do not relieve Israel from its legal obligations not to target civilians). Israeli forces repeatedly bombed Gaza's only power plant and other infrastructure, which are "beyond repair." Israeli forces bombed one-third of Gaza's hospitals, 14 primary healthcare clinics and 29 ambulances. At least five medical staff were killed and tens of others were injured.

Somebody needs to ******* nuke that country, I am sick of this shit!

 

[Billo_Really]

Are you so fuckin stupid that you cannot understand the simple fact that Hamas does not have guidance weapons on their missiles?? They cannot return fire to a command center that has fired on them.
This entire thread has been a total failure. If I were you, I would delete it pronto before kore people see it.
Or leave it so we can be entertained by your stupid posts in here

Just because Hamas doesn't have the technology to fire on that command center, does not negate the fact that the location of the command center satisfies the definition of using human shields according to international law.

 

[docmauser1]

Just because Hamas doesn't have the technology to fire on that command center, does not negate the fact that the location of the command center satisfies the definition of using human shields according to international law.

Drivel.

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Israel has the right to defend itself against an entity that openly initiates attacks against the sovereignty of its nation and the security of its people.

It is unfortunate that so many civilians casualties have been inflicted. HAMAS, if it really is concerned for its people, should stand on the battlefield and engage. As long as they hide among the general population, so long as the general population will suffer in the face of the fear and cowardice of HAMAS, the al-Aqsa Brigades, the al-Qassam Brigades and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (to name a few).

War crimes

(1) Willful killing: Israeli forces have killed nearly 2,000 Palestinians (more than 400 children and over 80% civilians).

(2) Willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health: Nearly 10,000 people, 2,500 of them children, have been wounded.

(3) Unlawful and wanton, extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified by military necessity: Tens of thousands of Palestinians have lost their homes. More than 1,300 buildings were destroyed and 752 were severely damaged. Damage to sewer and water infrastructure has affected two-thirds of Gazans. On July 20, Israeli forces virtually flattened the small town of Khuza'a; one man counted 360 shell attacks in one hour.

(4) Willfully depriving a prisoner of war or a civilian the rights of fair and regular trial: Nearly 2,000 Palestinians were arrested by Israeli forces during July 2014, according to the Palestinian Prisoners Center for Studies. Prisoners include 15 members of the Palestinian Legislative Council, about 240 children, dozens of women, journalists, activists, academics and 62 former prisoners previously released in a prisoner exchange. Israeli forces executed many prisoners after arrest, either by directly firing on them, refusing to allow treatment or allowing them to bleed to death. More than 445 prisoners are being held without charge or trial under administrative detention.

(5) Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population, civilian objects, or humanitarian vehicles, installations and personnel: "The civilian population in the Gaza Strip is under direct attack," reads a joint declaration of over 150 international law experts. Israeli forces violated the principle of "distinction," which forbids deliberate attacks on civilians or civilian objects. Israeli forces bombed 142 schools (89 run by the UN), including six UN schools in which civilians were taking refuge. Israeli forces shot and killed fleeing civilians (warnings, which must effectively give civilians time to flee before bombing, do not relieve Israel from its legal obligations not to target civilians). Israeli forces repeatedly bombed Gaza's only power plant and other infrastructure, which are "beyond repair." Israeli forces bombed one-third of Gaza's hospitals, 14 primary healthcare clinics and 29 ambulances. At least five medical staff were killed and tens of others were injured.

(COMMENT)

HAMAS should execute a Noncombatant Evacuation Plan (NEO Plan) from the Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA). Then:

• (1) Willful killing:
  
  • Dispatch all these bravely prancing fighters that the Palestinian praise so much; like the al-Aqsa Brigades, the al-Qassam Brigades and the Palestinian Islamic Jihadists that parade around so proudly when the Israelis are not about, to seek-out and engage the Israeli Defense Force (IDF). That will eliminated this problem.
• (2) Willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health:
  
  • Dispatch all these bravely prancing fighters that the Palestinian praise so much; like the al-Aqsa Brigades, the al-Qassam Brigades and the Palestinian Islamic Jihadists that parade around so proudly when the Israelis are not about, to seek-out and engage the Israeli Defense Force (IDF). That will eliminated this problem.
• (3) Unlawful and wanton, extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified by military necessity:
  
  • Dispatch all these bravely prancing fighters that the Palestinian praise so much; like the al-Aqsa Brigades, the al-Qassam Brigades and the Palestinian Islamic Jihadists that parade around so proudly when the Israelis are not about, to seek-out and engage the Israeli Defense Force (IDF). That will eliminated this problem.
• (4) Willfully depriving a prisoner of war or a civilian the rights of fair and regular trial:
  
  • Dispatch all these bravely prancing fighters that the Palestinian praise so much; like the al-Aqsa Brigades, the al-Qassam Brigades and the Palestinian Islamic Jihadists that parade around so proudly when the Israelis are not about, to seek-out and engage the Israeli Defense Force (IDF). That will eliminated this problem.
• (5) Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population, civilian objects, or humanitarian vehicles, installations and personnel:
  
  • Dispatch all these bravely prancing fighters that the Palestinian praise so much; like the al-Aqsa Brigades, the al-Qassam Brigades and the Palestinian Islamic Jihadists that parade around so proudly when the Israelis are not about, to seek-out and engage the Israeli Defense Force (IDF). That will eliminated this problem.

AH, all the problems are solved. I am very confident (absolutely sure) that the IDF will even grant a weeks ceasefire for HAMAS, the IRCR and other NGOs to organize a safe route and designate Hospital and safety zones to accommodate the NEO Plan; if the forces of HAMAS will meet them at the FEBA. In this way, the end outcome is the noncombatants are protected, the forces of HAMAS get to demonstrate their heroism, and the conflict will be resolved. End-of-Story...

But don't complain that property is destroyed, noncombatants are killed, and rights are violated just because the forces aligned with HAMAS choose the cowards way out.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel has the right to defend itself against an entity that openly initiates attacks against the sovereignty of its nation and the security of its people.

No it does not!

An occupational force cannot claim self defense.

That's like saying an assassin who enters a house and finds it a little more difficult to kill the homer, tells the police (after slaying said home owner), that he acted in self defense. "Officer, the home owner was obviously trying to kill me, I acted in fear for my life!"

That is a bullshit argument!

Catch the ******* clue, there is...

...the self-evident legal and moral principle that an aggressor cannot rely upon self-defence to justify violence against resistance to its own aggression.

This Israel is just defending itself, is completely out of line.

To quote one Nuremberg judge:

On of the most amazing phenomena of this case which does not lack in startling features is the manner in which the aggressive war conducted by Germany against Russia has been treated by the defense as if it were the other way around. …If it is assumed that some of the resistance units in Russia or members of the population did commit acts which were in themselves unlawful under the rules of war, it would still have to be shown that these acts were not in legitimate defense against wrongs perpetrated upon them by the invader. Under International Law, as in Domestic Law, there can be no reprisal against reprisal.​

Give it up, dude, that dog don't hunt!

 

[Roudy]

Oh so Israel shoots rockets from schools, synagogue, and apartment buildings like Hamas animals do.

Ha ha ha. You're an ignorant moron as usual trying to make false comparisons and promoting total falsehoods, using bullshit websites like "alternet".

Hey did you know the aliens have invaded earth?

You'd probably believe that, since it's obvious you still think ad hominems are valid rebuttals.

BTW, embedding a command center in the middle of a town next to the Gaza border, is using the towns residents as human shields, you ******* hypocrite!

Hey you're the one that likes throwing all minds of conspiracy shit about Israel at the wall to see which one sticks. "Israel spouses it's civilians as human shields" Ho ho ho ho ha ha ha.

But please don't give up, you're very entertaining. What will you claim next, we can't wait.

 

[Roudy]

Oh so Israel shoots rockets from schools, synagogue, and apartment buildings like Hamas animals do.

Ha ha ha. You're an ignorant moron as usual trying to make false comparisons and promoting total falsehoods, using bullshit websites like "alternet".

Hey did you know the aliens have invaded earth?

You'd probably believe that, since it's obvious you still think ad hominems are valid rebuttals.

BTW, embedding a command center in the middle of a town next to the Gaza border, is using the towns residents as human shields, you ******* hypocrite!

Hamas has never targeted a "command center", you ******* moron, all it ever does is point it's rockets at Israeli cities hoping to kill as many civilians as it can. You are living in an alternative universe. Stop spouting Islamist propaganda and wake up, nobody believes your bullshit, idiot.

 

[RoccoR]

[MENTION=2873]Billo_Really[/MENTION], et al,

This is twisting what the actual law really says. It is straight-up Hostile Arab Palestinian Doctrine being spread to assail and challenge the Israeli position.

Israel has the right to defend itself against an entity that openly initiates attacks against the sovereignty of its nation and the security of its people.

No it does not!

An occupational force cannot claim self defense.

That's like saying an assassin who enters a house and finds it a little more difficult to kill the homer, tells the police (after slaying said home owner), that he acted in self defense. "Officer, the home owner was obviously trying to kill me, I acted in fear for my life!"

That is a bullshit argument!

Catch the ******* clue, there is...

...the self-evident legal and moral principle that an aggressor cannot rely upon self-defence to justify violence against resistance to its own aggression.

This Israel is just defending itself, is completely out of line.

To quote one Nuremberg judge:

On of the most amazing phenomena of this case which does not lack in startling features is the manner in which the aggressive war conducted by Germany against Russia has been treated by the defense as if it were the other way around. …If it is assumed that some of the resistance units in Russia or members of the population did commit acts which were in themselves unlawful under the rules of war, it would still have to be shown that these acts were not in legitimate defense against wrongs perpetrated upon them by the invader. Under International Law, as in Domestic Law, there can be no reprisal against reprisal.​

Give it up, dude, that dog don't hunt!

(OBSERVATION)

Article 68

Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.

The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty against a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.

The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.

In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced on a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.​

SOURCE: International Committee of the Red Cross

(COMMENT)

There is no question that Israel has the right to defend itself in any situation where there is an "actual" occupation in progress. In the Gaza Strip, prior to the invasion, the question of "occupation" is arguable, even among the experts. However there is no question that once HAMAS initiated the conflict through indirect fire on the civilian population of Israel, the defense was not only legal, but a duty for the security of the general Israeli population.

The reason for the containment and quarantine of the Palestinians is that have demonstrated a danger to the general stability, safety and security of the region; and to Israel specifically.

The case of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict differs some what from the WWII Europe theaters of occupation in that Israel did not occupy Palestinian controlled territory. It occupied Jordanian and Egyptian controlled territories, with whom now there are peace treaties with and observed. It was only through the Israeli allowance that the Palestinians were able to exercise their right of self-determination and declare independence. However, in the quarter century that followed, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to establish a firm and progressive government and demonstrate effective control.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

This is twisting what the actual law really says. It is straight-up Hostile Arab Palestinian Doctrine being spread to assail and challenge the Israeli position.

The Israeli position is the occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people, otherwise known as colonialism.

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Article 68

The way you talk, Poland had no right to resist Hitler.

General Assembly Resolution A/RES/37/43
3 December 1982

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for
independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from
colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means,
including armed struggle;

Everyone has the right to self-determination and if it takes killing Israeli's to do that, so be it.

Get the **** off land that isn't yours and stop denying the Palestinian's right to freedom.

Because if you don't, Israel will suffer the same fate as Nazi Germany.

There is no question that Israel has the right to defend itself in any situation where there is an "actual" occupation in progress.

If you're the aggressor, then it's not self defense, it's self delusional, in your case.

In the Gaza Strip, prior to the invasion, the question of "occupation" is arguable, even among the experts.

Wrong! It is not arguable among legal experts. No expert on IHL takes your position. No country on the planet, takes your position. You are alone on this point. No one else, agrees with you.

However there is no question that once HAMAS initiated the conflict through indirect fire on the civilian population of Israel, the defense was not only legal, but a duty for the security of the general Israeli population.

Hamas did not initiate the conflict.

They responded to Israeli acts of aggression.

The reason for the containment and quarantine of the Palestinians is that have demonstrated a danger to the general stability, safety and security of the region; and to Israel specifically.

That's bullshit! The reason for the blockade, is because Israel didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election.

The case of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict differs some what from the WWII Europe theaters of occupation in that Israel did not occupy Palestinian controlled territory. It occupied Jordanian and Egyptian controlled territories, with whom now there are peace treaties with and observed. It was only through the Israeli allowance that the Palestinians were able to exercise their right of self-determination and declare independence. However, in the quarter century that followed, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to establish a firm and progressive government and demonstrate effective control.

They can't demonstrate effective control, until Israel relinquishes effective control of the area.

 

[Billo_Really]

Hamas has never targeted a "command center", you ******* moron, all it ever does is point it's rockets at Israeli cities hoping to kill as many civilians as it can. You are living in an alternative universe. Stop spouting Islamist propaganda and wake up, nobody believes your bullshit, idiot.

I quoted the applicable definition of human shields, if you don't like it, tough shit!

 

[Daniyel]

He "quoted" the definition for human shield - congratulation Billo you finally made something for the people of Gaza.
If Hamas wasn't blamed for using human shields nobody would even consider bringing that up, the Kirya for example is like 50 years old now, first time I hear that.
The psychological warfare of Hamas, the most stupid list of casualties starting from you Billo. - Really.

 

[toastman]

Hamas has never targeted a "command center", you ******* moron, all it ever does is point it's rockets at Israeli cities hoping to kill as many civilians as it can. You are living in an alternative universe. Stop spouting Islamist propaganda and wake up, nobody believes your bullshit, idiot.

I quoted the applicable definition of human shields, if you don't like it, tough shit!

Ok, but you didn't even come close to responding to his point.

And the last statement in his post about you is 100% true..

This thread should be a sticky for if anyone needs a good laugh

 

[Billo_Really]

Ok, but you didn't even come close to responding to his point.

His point is moot.

And the last statement in his post about you is 100% true..

This thread should be a sticky for if anyone needs a good laugh

International law is Islamist propaganda?

Man, you really are out there, aren't you?

 

[Billo_Really]

He "quoted" the definition for human shield - congratulation Billo you finally made something for the people of Gaza.
If Hamas wasn't blamed for using human shields nobody would even consider bringing that up, the Kirya for example is like 50 years old now, first time I hear that.
The psychological warfare of Hamas, the most stupid list of casualties starting from you Billo. - Really.

More like if Israel stopped lying about the truth, I wouldn't bring it up.

 

[Indeependent]

He "quoted" the definition for human shield - congratulation Billo you finally made something for the people of Gaza.
If Hamas wasn't blamed for using human shields nobody would even consider bringing that up, the Kirya for example is like 50 years old now, first time I hear that.
The psychological warfare of Hamas, the most stupid list of casualties starting from you Billo. - Really.

More like if Israel stopped lying about the truth, I wouldn't bring it up.

Maybe your truth is bullshit.
Actually, your truth IS bullshit.

 

[Billo_Really]

Maybe your truth is bullshit.
Actually, your truth IS bullshit.

My truth is the result of logical deductive reasoning, not Israeli ass-kissing.

 

[Indeependent]

Maybe your truth is bullshit.
Actually, your truth IS bullshit.

My truth is the result of logical deductive reasoning, not Israeli ass-kissing.

Yes, Palestinian web-sites are well known for their objectivity.
As an aside, does it bother you that Jordan told a bunch of Syrian Palestinians to **** off and die in Syria?
I bet you blame THAT on Israel.

 

[Daniyel]

He "quoted" the definition for human shield - congratulation Billo you finally made something for the people of Gaza.
If Hamas wasn't blamed for using human shields nobody would even consider bringing that up, the Kirya for example is like 50 years old now, first time I hear that.
The psychological warfare of Hamas, the most stupid list of casualties starting from you Billo. - Really.

More like if Israel stopped lying about the truth, I wouldn't bring it up.

Your version of truth based on the Palestinian Syndrome of selective memory.
You choose one side advocating terrorism out loud and you blame it all on Israel, I could understand your position like most "anti-Zionists" pro-pals if you wouldn't support Hamas-but you do...another stupid casualty.

 

[Billo_Really]

Your version of truth based on the Palestinian Syndrome of selective memory.

You don't care what my truth is based on, so drawing conclusions from something you know nothing about, is pretty damn stupid!

My truth, is completely void of "perception management".

You choose one side advocating terrorism out loud and you blame it all on Israel, I could understand your position like most "anti-Zionists" pro-pals if you wouldn't support Hamas-but you do...another stupid casualty.

There's another one of your lies. I haven't chosen either side. And why would I? I have no dog in this hunt. So there's no reason for me to waste my time.

You just accuse me of supporting them as a knee-jerk response to Israeli criticism. You fuckers do this constantly! You attack anyone who criticizes Israel. And the reason you do that, is because you're so morally bankrupt, you don't have the balls to deal with the atrocities your country is committing.

But you will have your Eisenhower moment. Guaranteed.