How Israel Used Its Own Civilians as Human Shields While Assaulting Gaza

[Billo_Really]

As with most Israeli claims, saying Hamas is using human shields, is just another one of their projections onto others.

Within one of Tel Aviv’s most densely populated neighborhoods sits Ha’Kirya, the army’s headquarters, a gigantic complex of monolithic buildings that house the offices where attacks on Gaza are planned. The uniformed officers and soldiers who work inside take lunch in the cafes and shop in the malls surrounding their offices, embedding themselves among the civilian population. A military base is nestled in the middle of the campus of Haifa University while Hebrew and Tel Aviv Universities offer military officers free tuition, encouraging their enrollment and allowing them to carry weapons on campus. It is hard to find a henhouse, flophouse, or fieldhouse anywhere in Israel without some kind of military presence.

In addition to that...

Not only do Israel’s southern communities exist under the threat of rocket and mortar attacks from those they displaced, they are routinely used as shelters and temporary bases by the Israeli army.

Since the Israeli military is so intertwined among those communities, does that make the citizens there legal targets?

 

[Beelzebub]

That's interesting Bill.

So the IDF are using those civilians as an extra layer of protection, so they can complain about risks to civilians if ever Hamas decides to attack?

Luckily, Hamas are more moral than the IDF and would only wait for the IDF to come to clear ground in Gaza, away from Israeli civilians.

Did you know that Hamas are the most moral army in the world?

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Kondor3]

Oh, to be sure, the Israeli Defense Force is woven into the very fabric of Israeli national life, given their Swiss Army -like citizen-soldier military, in which virtually everyone is an active participant, or performs acceptable alternative service.

And, to be sure, if the Israelis had any realistic expectation of being the object of military fire-missions that were capable of hitting the Israelis' war-assets, concentrated or dispersed, and should the Israelis fail to move those war-assets away from civilian areas, then the Israelis would, indeed, be guilty of the war-crime of utilizing their own people as human shields, de facto, if not de jure.

Fortunately for them, the munitions and competency of both Hezbollah and (especially) Hamas are so pathetically inadequate, and their likelihood of actually hitting an Israeli war-asset or anything even in the frigging same neighborhood, are so astronomically low, so as to make the prospect comical.

So, for the present, this is an apples and oranges comparison, in the Real World, beyond the realm of the Hamas propagandist's moral relativism which we see so broadly manifested hereabouts.

Wake us up, when Hamas gets to the point where they can actually and intentionally hit the broad side of a barn, and after Israel refuses to move its war-assets under the pressure of reasonably accurate targeting, and then come back and talk to us about Israel using its own people as Human Shields.

Meanwhile, as to this particular pekkerwood'ed attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill...

Wow... just... wow... talk about 'stretching' for an equivalency...

Just goes to show ya... when the losing side gets its ass kicked good-and-proper, there's nothing left to do, but to make up shit to piss and moan about, while trying to assemble a collection of consolation prizes.

Next slide, please.

 

[Beelzebub]

... the Israeli Defense Force is woven into the very fabric of Israeli national life, given their Swiss Army -like citizen-soldier military, in which virtually everyone is an active participant, or performs acceptable alternative service. ...

That is curious Kondor.
By that reckoning Hamas, when it fires rockets is not at risk of hitting ANY civilians in Israel.
According to you.

 

[Daniyel]

Are you real? Its like saying the CIA Headquarters in Langley use Americans as Human Shields..No wait, the Pentagon.

 

[Kondor3]

... the Israeli Defense Force is woven into the very fabric of Israeli national life, given their Swiss Army -like citizen-soldier military, in which virtually everyone is an active participant, or performs acceptable alternative service. ...

That is curious Kondor. By that reckoning Hamas, when it fires rockets is not at risk of hitting ANY civilians in Israel. According to you.

Or, there is risk.

There is simply a laughable lack of accuracy, which renders the attempted comparison of shielding against intentionally-targeted munitions fire comedic.

The risk being that a rocket is aimed at Village A but ends-up hitting Village B, or an open-field a few K's from town.

 

[Beelzebub]

Are you real? Its like saying the CIA Headquarters in Langley use Americans as Human Shields..No wait, the Pentagon.

Ah.

So you are saying it is not just normal to have civilians around a military structure, but in a modern integrated society, it is almost impossible to NOT have military establishments in close proximity to civilians and civilian infrastructure.

You know, I think you are right.

 

[Beelzebub]

... the Israeli Defense Force is woven into the very fabric of Israeli national life, given their Swiss Army -like citizen-soldier military, in which virtually everyone is an active participant, or performs acceptable alternative service. ...

That is curious Kondor. By that reckoning Hamas, when it fires rockets is not at risk of hitting ANY civilians in Israel. According to you.

Or, there is risk.

There is simply a laughable lack of accuracy, which renders the attempted comparison of shielding against intentionally-targeted munitions fire comedic.

The risk being that a rocket is aimed at Village A but ends-up hitting Village B, or an open-field a few K's from town.

So overall, not a big risk, especially not a big risk to civilians, as there are almost none who are not involved in the Israeli military in some capacity.

 

[Kondor3]

Are you real? Its like saying the CIA Headquarters in Langley use Americans as Human Shields..No wait, the Pentagon.

Ah.

So you are saying it is not just normal to have civilians around a military structure, but in a modern integrated society, it is almost impossible to NOT have military establishments in close proximity to civilians and civilian infrastructure.

You know, I think you are right.

Ahhhhhhh, yes, the ever-popular moral equivalency, attempted in connection with an apples-and-oranges comparison.

It's not going to do you any good. Nobody's buying the equivalency. Nobody with an ounce or more of brains to think for themselves, anyway.

Somebody else can drag you characters up-and-down the metaphorical basketball court with this one... I've said what I cam here to say, and will be content to let those points stand or fall upon their own merits.

Time to blow this popsicle stand...

 

[SAYIT]

Just goes to show ya... when the losing side gets its ass kicked good-and-proper, there's nothing left to do, but to make up shit to piss and moan about, while trying to assemble a collection of consolation prizes.

Next slide, please.[/SIZE]

And that's the bottom line for this thread. Our usual suspects and their Hamas Handlers have a serious case of butthurt and based on what I heard from Hamas today, there will soon be much more headed their way. Mix in the PR disaster this week has been for them and ... well ... you get a butthurt thread like this.

 

[Beelzebub]

Amazing.

Not one word of refuting what we say, just comical repetition that you don't agree.
Does this pass for debate in the US?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

That is curious Kondor. By that reckoning Hamas, when it fires rockets is not at risk of hitting ANY civilians in Israel. According to you.

Or, there is risk.

There is simply a laughable lack of accuracy, which renders the attempted comparison of shielding against intentionally-targeted munitions fire comedic.

The risk being that a rocket is aimed at Village A but ends-up hitting Village B, or an open-field a few K's from town.

So overall, not a big risk, especially not a big risk to civilians, as there are almost none who are not involved in the Israeli military in some capacity.

After Israeli citizens finish their 2 or 3 years of service and go on to University or get jobs, they're not considered military people any longer--hence, they are civilians.

 

[teddyearp]

[MENTION=48863]Beelzebub[/MENTION]: Here's your refute.

Hmm, OK. Max Blumenthal. I am sure he is an unbiased source, correct? Not from what I find. In fact I believe he is trying to build his career to be very one sided.

Max Blumenthal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And let's see, how many military installations are there around Long Beach, CA (a VERY heavily populated area)? Several. There's the Long Beach Naval Station and the Naval Weapons Station in Seal Beach, just to name two. The members of the military at these installations do much of the same things outside of the bases as the Israeli military has been reported to do in said article. So with this mentality, the US could be considered to use it's civilians as human shields as well.

Ok, that was the milk.

Here's the meat. Hamas uses residential houses in Gaza as part of their military 'base'. Yes. One part of the house is for living, the other for rocket firing, tunnels, planning.

NEXT?

 

[Beelzebub]

Reservists?

 

[SAYIT]

Amazing.

Not one word of refuting what we say, just comical repetition that you don't agree.
Does this pass for debate in the US?

What did you say, Princess?

 

[SAYIT]

... the Israeli Defense Force is woven into the very fabric of Israeli national life, given their Swiss Army -like citizen-soldier military, in which virtually everyone is an active participant, or performs acceptable alternative service. ...

That is curious Kondor.
By that reckoning Hamas, when it fires rockets is not at risk of hitting ANY civilians in Israel.
According to you.

Israel doesn't fire unguided rockets into Gaza from positions in Israel as Hamas does to Israel. The IDF rolls in real close and

 

[Daniyel]

Israel doesn't launch missiles or carry military operation/assaults within civilians in the Kiraya, which serve for high commanders and the cabinet meeting.
The Hamas launch missiles and carry military operations/assaults within civilians in GAZA.

 

[toastman]

This is easily in the top 3 for most pathetic attempts at demonizing Israel.
It's not surprise that Billo s the genius who posted this drivel, and it's certainly not surprising that Beezle was quick to slurp it up.

When Hamas launches rockets from a civilian building, Israeli artillery has the technology to launch shells to where the fire came from (which Hamas knows).
When Hamas stores their weapons in civilian buildings, UN buildings, Israeli warplanes combined with intelligence can hit those targets. In both cases, civilians will get hit.
Since Hamas is very familiar with how Israel retaliates, they are using the civilians in the above examples as human shields.

Of course Hamas would never store their weapons or fire their rockets from open areas. That would make Israel's job so easy, and their would be no dead Palestinians to parade in front of news cameras.

 

[Humanity]

... the Israeli Defense Force is woven into the very fabric of Israeli national life, given their Swiss Army -like citizen-soldier military, in which virtually everyone is an active participant, or performs acceptable alternative service. ...

That is curious Kondor. By that reckoning Hamas, when it fires rockets is not at risk of hitting ANY civilians in Israel. According to you.

Or, there is risk.

There is simply a laughable lack of accuracy, which renders the attempted comparison of shielding against intentionally-targeted munitions fire comedic.

The risk being that a rocket is aimed at Village A but ends-up hitting Village B, or an open-field a few K's from town.

So what's the excuse for those ever so accurate bombing runs into Gaza hitting schools and hospitals?

IDF Has the capability to take out targets very accurately yet still manages to kills a great many civilians...

Please don't come back with Hamas Human Shield...