How is Jesus the Messiah?

[Indeependent]

Actually, it defies what God is.
God is not at all understandable.
We can only attempt to grasp at what God means by His manifestations.

TN doesn't believe in God so it is natural that he wouldn't believe God could be in flesh.

You yourself say God is not understandable so you would be foolish to say anything good would be beyond his ability.

TN read the verses that supposedly describe why Christians believe Jesus was the messiah.
His reaction to those verses is appropriate.
Either Jesus fulfilled the prophecies (He didn't) or He didn't.

And that was just as fascinating as the other 89 times you told me that.

So far, no one has actually even attempted to make that case.

The OP certainly doesn't make it. It doesn't even try.

According to the NT, man has zero free will.
So how did Jesus fail when man has zero free will?
I'm sorry, my friend, the Church never made sense and never will.

Why do you, a Jew, believe the NT, which is a Christian religious text, say that "according to the NT, man has zero free will?"

Because I don't know any Christian who believes that the NT tells them that they have no free will.

All Jews read the NT at one point or another to see what Christians believe in.
You have to read your NT because you didn’t read the many verses that ridicule education and not being subservient to all mankind.
Anyone who does not believe in the Calvary and perform acts is a child of Satan.
Don’t just read the verses cherry picked by the RCC.

 

[Indeependent]

Hebrew words and grammar haven’t changed.

Biblical Hebrew and modern Hebrew are not identical.

Yes they are.
Hebrew has been extended word wise but the core language and grammer is the same.
I know because I can read contemporary Hebrew.

 

[irosie91]

TN doesn't believe in God so it is natural that he wouldn't believe God could be in flesh.

You yourself say God is not understandable so you would be foolish to say anything good would be beyond his ability.

TN read the verses that supposedly describe why Christians believe Jesus was the messiah.
His reaction to those verses is appropriate.
Either Jesus fulfilled the prophecies (He didn't) or He didn't.

And that was just as fascinating as the other 89 times you told me that.

So far, no one has actually even attempted to make that case.

The OP certainly doesn't make it. It doesn't even try.

According to the NT, man has zero free will.
So how did Jesus fail when man has zero free will?
I'm sorry, my friend, the Church never made sense and never will.

Why do you, a Jew, believe the NT, which is a Christian religious text, say that "according to the NT, man has zero free will?"

Because I don't know any Christian who believes that the NT tells them that they have no free will.

All Jews read the NT at one point or another to see what Christians believe in.
You have to read your NT because you didn’t read the many verses that ridicule education and not being subservient to all mankind.
Anyone who does not believe in the Calvary and perform acts is a child of Satan.
Don’t just read the verses cherry picked by the RCC.

IMHO all jews read the NT because WE ALL GET THEM from friendly old lady Christians.
Those tiny little pocket size things were ALL OVER THE PLACE in my childhood. I do not
remember verses that ridicule education-----but I never understood what the writers had
against "SCRIBES" ........"scribes"???? "evil scribes"??? anyone?

 

[Indeependent]

TN read the verses that supposedly describe why Christians believe Jesus was the messiah.
His reaction to those verses is appropriate.
Either Jesus fulfilled the prophecies (He didn't) or He didn't.

And that was just as fascinating as the other 89 times you told me that.

So far, no one has actually even attempted to make that case.

The OP certainly doesn't make it. It doesn't even try.

According to the NT, man has zero free will.
So how did Jesus fail when man has zero free will?
I'm sorry, my friend, the Church never made sense and never will.

Why do you, a Jew, believe the NT, which is a Christian religious text, say that "according to the NT, man has zero free will?"

Because I don't know any Christian who believes that the NT tells them that they have no free will.

All Jews read the NT at one point or another to see what Christians believe in.
You have to read your NT because you didn’t read the many verses that ridicule education and not being subservient to all mankind.
Anyone who does not believe in the Calvary and perform acts is a child of Satan.
Don’t just read the verses cherry picked by the RCC.

IMHO all jews read the NT because WE ALL GET THEM from friendly old lady Christians.
Those tiny little pocket size things were ALL OVER THE PLACE in my childhood. I do not
remember verses that ridicule education-----but I never understood what the writers had
against "SCRIBES" ........"scribes"???? "evil scribes"??? anyone?

Scribes = Educated = Arrogant.
The last thing Paul wanted around was an educated Jew who could call out his bulkshit.

 

[admonit]

A human born of King Davids bloodline.
He would bring about the messianic age
he would bring about the entire world under one religion
etc

He fulfilled the first...”King David”. A

Could you explain, using human logic, how he fulfilled it?

Can you explain how he didn't? The OP has yet to do so.

Yes, I can. According to the Gospels Jesus had no human father. It means that king David is not his ancestor.

Except that King Davis is his ancestor through his mother Mary.

Next.

Maternal line in this case is irrelevant. According to the biblical view the rights of royal succession are determined through paternal biological descent.

 

[Indeependent]

He fulfilled the first...”King David”. A

Could you explain, using human logic, how he fulfilled it?

Can you explain how he didn't? The OP has yet to do so.

Yes, I can. According to the Gospels Jesus had no human father. It means that king David is not his ancestor.

Except that King Davis is his ancestor through his mother Mary.

Next.

Maternal line in this case is irrelevant. According to the biblical view the rights of royal succession are determined through paternal biological descent.

Verse?

 

[TNHarley]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

 

[irosie91]

Hebrew words and grammar haven’t changed.

Biblical Hebrew and modern Hebrew are not identical.

Yes they are.
Hebrew has been extended word wise but the core language and grammer is the same.
I know because I can read contemporary Hebrew.

that Hebrew has "CHANGED" is a commonly held belief amongst the really ignorant.
"independent" is PROUDLY AND ARROGANTLY more learned in the language than
am I------but even I know-------IT IS THE SAME STUFF------reading the dead sea scroll
samples that made their way to MANHATTAN-------was like stumbling thru Ha'aretz.
People also seem to believe that there are DRASTIC changes in the script----nope.
The one belief that I endorse------YES---THE TALMUD CONTAINS A RECIPE FOR
CHANGING SHIT INTO GOLD!!!!!!.

 

[irosie91]

Could you explain, using human logic, how he fulfilled it?

Can you explain how he didn't? The OP has yet to do so.

Yes, I can. According to the Gospels Jesus had no human father. It means that king David is not his ancestor.

Except that King Davis is his ancestor through his mother Mary.

Next.

Maternal line in this case is irrelevant. According to the biblical view the rights of royal succession are determined through paternal biological descent.

Verse?

I actually did read the NT-------the Lineage linking Jesus to King David is thru his FATHER-----not his
mother. I do not memorize verse numbers.

 

[irosie91]

And that was just as fascinating as the other 89 times you told me that.

So far, no one has actually even attempted to make that case.

The OP certainly doesn't make it. It doesn't even try.

According to the NT, man has zero free will.
So how did Jesus fail when man has zero free will?
I'm sorry, my friend, the Church never made sense and never will.

Why do you, a Jew, believe the NT, which is a Christian religious text, say that "according to the NT, man has zero free will?"

Because I don't know any Christian who believes that the NT tells them that they have no free will.

All Jews read the NT at one point or another to see what Christians believe in.
You have to read your NT because you didn’t read the many verses that ridicule education and not being subservient to all mankind.
Anyone who does not believe in the Calvary and perform acts is a child of Satan.
Don’t just read the verses cherry picked by the RCC.

IMHO all jews read the NT because WE ALL GET THEM from friendly old lady Christians.
Those tiny little pocket size things were ALL OVER THE PLACE in my childhood. I do not
remember verses that ridicule education-----but I never understood what the writers had
against "SCRIBES" ........"scribes"???? "evil scribes"??? anyone?

Scribes = Educated = Arrogant.
The last thing Paul wanted around was an educated Jew who could call out his bulkshit.

that's it? being a sofer was the HEIGHT OF EDUCATION in the eyes of Paul? -------nope....
sorta life of tedium

 

[Indeependent]

Can you explain how he didn't? The OP has yet to do so.

Yes, I can. According to the Gospels Jesus had no human father. It means that king David is not his ancestor.

Except that King Davis is his ancestor through his mother Mary.

Next.

Maternal line in this case is irrelevant. According to the biblical view the rights of royal succession are determined through paternal biological descent.

Verse?

I actually did read the NT-------the Lineage linking Jesus to King David is thru his FATHER-----not his
mother. I do not memorize verse numbers.

The verse request was for adminit.

 

[Indeependent]

According to the NT, man has zero free will.
So how did Jesus fail when man has zero free will?
I'm sorry, my friend, the Church never made sense and never will.

Why do you, a Jew, believe the NT, which is a Christian religious text, say that "according to the NT, man has zero free will?"

Because I don't know any Christian who believes that the NT tells them that they have no free will.

All Jews read the NT at one point or another to see what Christians believe in.
You have to read your NT because you didn’t read the many verses that ridicule education and not being subservient to all mankind.
Anyone who does not believe in the Calvary and perform acts is a child of Satan.
Don’t just read the verses cherry picked by the RCC.

IMHO all jews read the NT because WE ALL GET THEM from friendly old lady Christians.
Those tiny little pocket size things were ALL OVER THE PLACE in my childhood. I do not
remember verses that ridicule education-----but I never understood what the writers had
against "SCRIBES" ........"scribes"???? "evil scribes"??? anyone?

Scribes = Educated = Arrogant.
The last thing Paul wanted around was an educated Jew who could call out his bulkshit.

that's it? being a sofer was the HEIGHT OF EDUCATION in the eyes of Paul? -------nope....
sorta life of tedium

The scholars are called sofrim (counters).
They knew Scripture cold.

 

[irosie91]

Why do you, a Jew, believe the NT, which is a Christian religious text, say that "according to the NT, man has zero free will?"

Because I don't know any Christian who believes that the NT tells them that they have no free will.

All Jews read the NT at one point or another to see what Christians believe in.
You have to read your NT because you didn’t read the many verses that ridicule education and not being subservient to all mankind.
Anyone who does not believe in the Calvary and perform acts is a child of Satan.
Don’t just read the verses cherry picked by the RCC.

IMHO all jews read the NT because WE ALL GET THEM from friendly old lady Christians.
Those tiny little pocket size things were ALL OVER THE PLACE in my childhood. I do not
remember verses that ridicule education-----but I never understood what the writers had
against "SCRIBES" ........"scribes"???? "evil scribes"??? anyone?

Scribes = Educated = Arrogant.
The last thing Paul wanted around was an educated Jew who could call out his bulkshit.

that's it? being a sofer was the HEIGHT OF EDUCATION in the eyes of Paul? -------nope....
sorta life of tedium

The scholars are called sofrim (counters).
They knew Scripture cold.

oh------but lots of people KNEW stuff. without doing sofer work. Hillel was called a sofer?

 

[Indeependent]

All Jews read the NT at one point or another to see what Christians believe in.
You have to read your NT because you didn’t read the many verses that ridicule education and not being subservient to all mankind.
Anyone who does not believe in the Calvary and perform acts is a child of Satan.
Don’t just read the verses cherry picked by the RCC.

IMHO all jews read the NT because WE ALL GET THEM from friendly old lady Christians.
Those tiny little pocket size things were ALL OVER THE PLACE in my childhood. I do not
remember verses that ridicule education-----but I never understood what the writers had
against "SCRIBES" ........"scribes"???? "evil scribes"??? anyone?

Scribes = Educated = Arrogant.
The last thing Paul wanted around was an educated Jew who could call out his bulkshit.

that's it? being a sofer was the HEIGHT OF EDUCATION in the eyes of Paul? -------nope....
sorta life of tedium

The scholars are called sofrim (counters).
They knew Scripture cold.

oh------but lots of people KNEW stuff. without doing sofer work. Hillel was called a sofer?

Yes; Hillel was pivotal to the survival of Judaism.

 

[irosie91]

IMHO all jews read the NT because WE ALL GET THEM from friendly old lady Christians.
Those tiny little pocket size things were ALL OVER THE PLACE in my childhood. I do not
remember verses that ridicule education-----but I never understood what the writers had
against "SCRIBES" ........"scribes"???? "evil scribes"??? anyone?

Scribes = Educated = Arrogant.
The last thing Paul wanted around was an educated Jew who could call out his bulkshit.

that's it? being a sofer was the HEIGHT OF EDUCATION in the eyes of Paul? -------nope....
sorta life of tedium

The scholars are called sofrim (counters).
They knew Scripture cold.

oh------but lots of people KNEW stuff. without doing sofer work. Hillel was called a sofer?

Yes; Hillel was pivotal to the survival of Judaism.

and called a "SOFER" sheeeesh Paul decided that he was evil? So why did Jesus
QUOTE evil sofer Hillel incessantly???? Seems to me that the real Jesus---would have been
horrified at the stuff Paul wrote about him

 

[Indeependent]

Scribes = Educated = Arrogant.
The last thing Paul wanted around was an educated Jew who could call out his bulkshit.

that's it? being a sofer was the HEIGHT OF EDUCATION in the eyes of Paul? -------nope....
sorta life of tedium

The scholars are called sofrim (counters).
They knew Scripture cold.

oh------but lots of people KNEW stuff. without doing sofer work. Hillel was called a sofer?

Yes; Hillel was pivotal to the survival of Judaism.

and called a "SOFER" sheeeesh Paul decided that he was evil? So why did Jesus
QUOTE evil sofer Hillel incessantly???? Seems to me that the real Jesus---would have been
horrified at the stuff Paul wrote about him

You mean MISQUOTE.
“Quoting” the Jewish Scripture was Paul’s biggest mistake.
Mohammed wisely did not make the same mistake.

 

[irosie91]

that's it? being a sofer was the HEIGHT OF EDUCATION in the eyes of Paul? -------nope....
sorta life of tedium

The scholars are called sofrim (counters).
They knew Scripture cold.

oh------but lots of people KNEW stuff. without doing sofer work. Hillel was called a sofer?

Yes; Hillel was pivotal to the survival of Judaism.

and called a "SOFER" sheeeesh Paul decided that he was evil? So why did Jesus
QUOTE evil sofer Hillel incessantly???? Seems to me that the real Jesus---would have been
horrified at the stuff Paul wrote about him

You mean MISQUOTE.
“Quoting” the Jewish Scripture was Paul’s biggest mistake.
Mohammed wisely did not make the same mistake.

NO NO NO!!! it was Jesus who quoted Hillel------more like Paraphrased. As to muhummad---
the people who wrote the Koran did not misquote. They got the midrashic tale of talking ants
almost right. Remember---muhummad was completely illiterate------or so they say.
As to Paul-----imho-----he was mildly pixilated and tended to screw up things so badly that
I am convinced that he had no idea what the real Jesus actually SAID

 

[Indeependent]

The scholars are called sofrim (counters).
They knew Scripture cold.

oh------but lots of people KNEW stuff. without doing sofer work. Hillel was called a sofer?

Yes; Hillel was pivotal to the survival of Judaism.

and called a "SOFER" sheeeesh Paul decided that he was evil? So why did Jesus
QUOTE evil sofer Hillel incessantly???? Seems to me that the real Jesus---would have been
horrified at the stuff Paul wrote about him

You mean MISQUOTE.
“Quoting” the Jewish Scripture was Paul’s biggest mistake.
Mohammed wisely did not make the same mistake.

NO NO NO!!! it was Jesus who quoted Hillel------more like Paraphrased. As to muhummad---
the people who wrote the Koran did not misquote. They got the midrashic tale of talking ants
almost right. Remember---muhummad was completely illiterate------or so they say.
As to Paul-----imho-----he was mildly pixilated and tended to screw up things so badly that
I am convinced that he had no idea what the real Jesus actually SAID

Hillel was paraphrasing the Torah.
Paul stole everything.

 

[hobelim]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

I enjoyed reading about Jesus doing just that...

I even do it even though I am not a Christian.. Its a hoot! I even tell Christians they have the whole damn story all wrong.


wanna have some more fun?

Lets discuss kosher Law.

 

[irosie91]

oh------but lots of people KNEW stuff. without doing sofer work. Hillel was called a sofer?

Yes; Hillel was pivotal to the survival of Judaism.

and called a "SOFER" sheeeesh Paul decided that he was evil? So why did Jesus
QUOTE evil sofer Hillel incessantly???? Seems to me that the real Jesus---would have been
horrified at the stuff Paul wrote about him

You mean MISQUOTE.
“Quoting” the Jewish Scripture was Paul’s biggest mistake.
Mohammed wisely did not make the same mistake.

NO NO NO!!! it was Jesus who quoted Hillel------more like Paraphrased. As to muhummad---
the people who wrote the Koran did not misquote. They got the midrashic tale of talking ants
almost right. Remember---muhummad was completely illiterate------or so they say.
As to Paul-----imho-----he was mildly pixilated and tended to screw up things so badly that
I am convinced that he had no idea what the real Jesus actually SAID

Hillel was paraphrasing the Torah.
Paul stole everything.

I will try again------ I DO believe that there was a Jesus-----Paul never met him. Luke never
met him. MOST of the writers of the NT never met him (if not all) They seem to have
had some sort of a written record on him------or some legends written. My game after reading
the NT was to try to come up with that which seems likely that a real Jesus might have done
or said.. I kinda believe the story about overturning the tables of the Money changers -----
so Pharisee like. The real Jesus seems to me to be a paraphraser of Hillel. It turns out that
Hillel died in Jerusalem at about the same time that Jesus is said to have been born. My conclusion
is that Jesus was real----a Pharisee who favored Hillel. None of the writers of "curse the Pharisee"
stuff are credible. It's Constantine. Paul got more and more confused as time when on