How is Jesus the Messiah?

[admonit]

A human born of King Davids bloodline.
He would bring about the messianic age
he would bring about the entire world under one religion
etc

He fulfilled the first...”King David”. A

Could you explain, using human logic, how he fulfilled it?

No.

Then the whole discussion is pointless.

 

[admonit]

The book of Isaiah is WHERE they get the details for their messiah... He didnt fulfill them.

He fulfilled them. The Jews had their own reasons for pretending he didn’t. It was widely (and wrongly) believed the messiah would come to throw out the Romans. But...

But he did nothing, even said nothing against Romans.

The Jews were being dishonest weren’t they?

What? The Jews were being dishonest because Jesus neither did nor said anything against Roman occupation of Judea? Lol.

 

[admonit]

Amazing how much spin there is..
Even if being a demi god counts as being a human(LOL) the prophecy DIDNT get fulfilled.
So, how is he the messiah?

I wouldn't have expected you to see it any other way, TN.

It's not like you can be objective about this.

You are sitting there saying Jews have it wrong. That is WHERE you guys came up with Jesus being the messiah you big fucking hack!

Jews pick the messiah? Who told you that?

Jews?

Lol. Probably. Today they tell me Hillary should be president.

Let me doubt that Hillary has anything to do with Jewish religious scripts.

 

[DOTR]

A human born of King Davids bloodline.
He would bring about the messianic age
he would bring about the entire world under one religion
etc

He fulfilled the first...”King David”. A

Could you explain, using human logic, how he fulfilled it?

No.

Then the whole discussion is pointless.

It may very well be

Actually he got his answer early on. It is when a question becomes an agenda that the pointlessness begins.

 

[TNHarley]

A human born of King Davids bloodline.
He would bring about the messianic age
he would bring about the entire world under one religion
etc

He fulfilled the first...”King David”. As for one religion worldwide...on who’s timeline? Christianity grew from a small persecuted and despised slave religion to what is now the largest religion in the world.
How do you know where that will end?

Lol ok. I guess you never read about the prophecy..

 

[ding]

Why would you believe that?

Have you ever stopped to consider it is your understanding that is flawed?

It’s called actually reading the Prophets and not just parroting what the the Church says.

Reading the prophets doesn't mean the understanding of what the prophets said is correct.

Prophecies are not straightforward.

If you do not believe the prophecies have been fulfilled, then either your understanding of the prophecies is wrong or the prophecy itself is wrong.

How many years has it been?

When was the Book closed?

The issue is mangling the words.

How so?

You want me to teach you Hebrew in one post or two?

No. I was thinking more like a short and concise explanation. I know you are capable.

 

[Indeependent]

It’s called actually reading the Prophets and not just parroting what the the Church says.

Reading the prophets doesn't mean the understanding of what the prophets said is correct.

Prophecies are not straightforward.

If you do not believe the prophecies have been fulfilled, then either your understanding of the prophecies is wrong or the prophecy itself is wrong.

How many years has it been?

When was the Book closed?

The issue is mangling the words.

How so?

You want me to teach you Hebrew in one post or two?

No. I was thinking more like a short and concise explanation. I know you are capable.

The fact is that the KJV is a horrible translation/interpretation, through and through.
It's better to pick up an ArtScroll Genesis and start from there.
Hebrew is a very terse language of less than 600 words; it's impossible to translate but not impossible to interpret possible meanings of a word, phrase or entire verse.
The KJV sucks on every possible level.

 

[ding]

Reading the prophets doesn't mean the understanding of what the prophets said is correct.

Prophecies are not straightforward.

If you do not believe the prophecies have been fulfilled, then either your understanding of the prophecies is wrong or the prophecy itself is wrong.

How many years has it been?

When was the Book closed?

The issue is mangling the words.

How so?

You want me to teach you Hebrew in one post or two?

No. I was thinking more like a short and concise explanation. I know you are capable.

The fact is that the KJV is a horrible translation/interpretation, through and through.
It's better to pick up an ArtScroll Genesis and start from there.
Hebrew is a very terse language of less than 600 words; it's impossible to translate but not impossible to interpret possible meanings of a word, phrase or entire verse.
The KJV sucks on every possible level.

OK, I get that you don't believe there is any translation that you agree with, but I'm not parroting what the Church says or relying on a translation. How do you know your understanding of who or what the next David would be is correct? Has he come? No. Didn't the Jews close their book because God was done speaking to them? Yes. None of this is a translation or dogma.

 

[Indeependent]

The issue is mangling the words.

How so?

You want me to teach you Hebrew in one post or two?

No. I was thinking more like a short and concise explanation. I know you are capable.

The fact is that the KJV is a horrible translation/interpretation, through and through.
It's better to pick up an ArtScroll Genesis and start from there.
Hebrew is a very terse language of less than 600 words; it's impossible to translate but not impossible to interpret possible meanings of a word, phrase or entire verse.
The KJV sucks on every possible level.

OK, I get that you don't believe there is any translation that you agree with, but I'm not parroting what the Church says or relying on a translation. How do you know your understanding of who or what the next David would be is correct? Has he come? No. Didn't the Jews close their book because God was done speaking to them? Yes. None of this is a translation or dogma.

There are only a few million Jews who know Hebrew. Hebrew words and grammar haven’t changed.
The books are not closed, the cannon is closed.
The books have commentaries dating back 2,000 years.
The words that have been mistranslated in the KJV are translated correctly when taken separately and honestly translated by Cheistian scholars who know Hebrew.
It’s quite embarrassing.

 

[DOTR]

Tnharley got an answer to his question...much to his chagrin.

 

[ding]

I am talking about how a lot of Christians view Jesus as the Jewish messiah
Why do they believe that

I don't know, but my theory is that these Christians do not have a very good understanding (or any understanding) of the Jewish faith.

What about the many Jews that believed in jesus in the book of Acts. His Disciples and the Apostles? What about Paul? Paul was one of he greatest Jewish scholars of the Scriptures. Could it be that it isn't about knowledge of Judaism, but about a personal relationship. Paul rounded up Christians and watched them get stoned to death. Then Jesus appeared to Paul, according to his own testimony. What was it that Paul didn't understand about the Jewish faith?

What about the fact that 90% of Jews today have zero knowledge of their religion?

Zero?

C'mon.

Little? Maybe.

Zero.
They define Judaism as not believing in Jesus.

I guess I didn't understand whose religion you meant by your comment that 90% of Jews today have zero knowledge of their religion. I thought you were talking about the Jewish faith.

 

[DOTR]

How so?

You want me to teach you Hebrew in one post or two?

No. I was thinking more like a short and concise explanation. I know you are capable.

The fact is that the KJV is a horrible translation/interpretation, through and through.
It's better to pick up an ArtScroll Genesis and start from there.
Hebrew is a very terse language of less than 600 words; it's impossible to translate but not impossible to interpret possible meanings of a word, phrase or entire verse.
The KJV sucks on every possible level.

OK, I get that you don't believe there is any translation that you agree with, but I'm not parroting what the Church says or relying on a translation. How do you know your understanding of who or what the next David would be is correct? Has he come? No. Didn't the Jews close their book because God was done speaking to them? Yes. None of this is a translation or dogma.

There are only a few million Jews who know Hebrew. Hebrew words and grammar haven’t changed.
The books are not closed, the cannon is closed.
The books have commentaries dating back 2,000 years.
The words that have been mistranslated in the KJV are translated correctly when taken separately and honestly translated by Cheistian scholars who know Hebrew.
It’s quite embarrassing.

97% of Christianity has never seen or read a KJV. Yet the belief is the same. You are a victim of your own parochialism.

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

IIRC, didn't Jesus admit he was no king?

Jesus plainly admitted He was King of the Jews. You really need to read the New Testament.

Tn is better with audio books or lots of pictures....

 

[ding]

How so?

You want me to teach you Hebrew in one post or two?

No. I was thinking more like a short and concise explanation. I know you are capable.

The fact is that the KJV is a horrible translation/interpretation, through and through.
It's better to pick up an ArtScroll Genesis and start from there.
Hebrew is a very terse language of less than 600 words; it's impossible to translate but not impossible to interpret possible meanings of a word, phrase or entire verse.
The KJV sucks on every possible level.

OK, I get that you don't believe there is any translation that you agree with, but I'm not parroting what the Church says or relying on a translation. How do you know your understanding of who or what the next David would be is correct? Has he come? No. Didn't the Jews close their book because God was done speaking to them? Yes. None of this is a translation or dogma.

There are only a few million Jews who know Hebrew. Hebrew words and grammar haven’t changed.
The books are not closed, the cannon is closed.
The books have commentaries dating back 2,000 years.
The words that have been mistranslated in the KJV are translated correctly when taken separately and honestly translated by Cheistian scholars who know Hebrew.
It’s quite embarrassing.

OK, I appreciate that. But my point is that since the prophecy was not fulfilled according to Jewish beliefs, It is possible that it was but it wasn't what it was expected.

The discussion about Christ with the OP would be an echo chamber for a Jew, but he must not forget that the OP doesn't believe anything about the Jew's faith either.

 

[ding]

Can someone explain this to me?
As far as i can tell, he didnt meet the requirements. Obviously lol..
So how?

What are the requirements?

A human born of King Davids bloodline.
He would bring about the messianic age
he would bring about the entire world under one religion
etc

Why would you believe that?

Have you ever stopped to consider it is your understanding that is flawed?

ummm no

You should.

 

[ding]

the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.

• Jesus regarded by Christians as the Messiah of the Hebrew prophecies and the savior of humankind.

Just because the Jews rejected him doesn't mean he's NOT the savior.
The Jews had a "vision" of the messiah that was incorrect. Therefore, they rejected him.
Furthermore, Isaiah prophesied the messiah as being exactly what Jesus was. Still, Jews ignore that. Even thought Isaiah is part of the Old Testament.

The book of Isaiah is WHERE they get the details for their messiah... He didnt fulfill them.

If you didn't get the idea that Jesus didn't fulfill the prophecy's from an atheist website, were did you get this belief from?

Which prophecies did he not fulfill?

 

[ding]

I am talking about how a lot of Christians view Jesus as the Jewish messiah
Why do they believe that

I don't know, but my theory is that these Christians do not have a very good understanding (or any understanding) of the Jewish faith.

What about the many Jews that believed in jesus in the book of Acts. His Disciples and the Apostles? What about Paul? Paul was one of he greatest Jewish scholars of the Scriptures. Could it be that it isn't about knowledge of Judaism, but about a personal relationship. Paul rounded up Christians and watched them get stoned to death. Then Jesus appeared to Paul, according to his own testimony. What was it that Paul didn't understand about the Jewish faith?

What about the fact that 90% of Jews today have zero knowledge of their religion?

Fact?

Link?

I’m a Jew and know way more Jews than you.
90% of Jews went to public school and have zero knowledge.

Of what?

 

[Indeependent]

I don't know, but my theory is that these Christians do not have a very good understanding (or any understanding) of the Jewish faith.

What about the many Jews that believed in jesus in the book of Acts. His Disciples and the Apostles? What about Paul? Paul was one of he greatest Jewish scholars of the Scriptures. Could it be that it isn't about knowledge of Judaism, but about a personal relationship. Paul rounded up Christians and watched them get stoned to death. Then Jesus appeared to Paul, according to his own testimony. What was it that Paul didn't understand about the Jewish faith?

What about the fact that 90% of Jews today have zero knowledge of their religion?

Zero?

C'mon.

Little? Maybe.

Zero.
They define Judaism as not believing in Jesus.

I guess I didn't understand whose religion you meant by your comment that 90% of Jews today have zero knowledge of their religion. I thought you were talking about the Jewish faith.

90% of Jews are assimilated but even the assimilated in Israel speak Hebrew.

 

[Indeependent]

the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.

• Jesus regarded by Christians as the Messiah of the Hebrew prophecies and the savior of humankind.

Just because the Jews rejected him doesn't mean he's NOT the savior.
The Jews had a "vision" of the messiah that was incorrect. Therefore, they rejected him.
Furthermore, Isaiah prophesied the messiah as being exactly what Jesus was. Still, Jews ignore that. Even thought Isaiah is part of the Old Testament.

The book of Isaiah is WHERE they get the details for their messiah... He didnt fulfill them.

If you didn't get the idea that Jesus didn't fulfill the prophecy's from an atheist website, were did you get this belief from?

Which prophecies did he not fulfill?

What prophecies did he fulfill?

 

[ding]

Amazing how much spin there is..
Even if being a demi god counts as being a human(LOL) the prophecy DIDNT get fulfilled.
So, how is he the messiah?

I wouldn't have expected you to see it any other way, TN.

It's not like you can be objective about this.

TN is being remarkably objective.

I would say he is being remarkably respectful.

Objective...TN is reading the actual words, not seeing what he wants to see.

We must have different standards of what objective means. Objective means to look at both sides without bias. Have you ever heard TN say anything positive about Christianity? I haven't. It's ax grinding against the dominant religion. Nothing new there. Been going on for centuries. Especially by socialists. I'm not saying TN or you are one of them, but you sure do make it easy for them.