How Fair and Honest are You in Politics?

[dblack]

Really? How is it that you and Mac have escaped this fate?

Get your glasses checked since neither Mac nor I claimed any such thing, I can't speak for Mac but I myself make my best effort to cut through the fog of falsehood and figure out the truth (and no I don't claim 100% success), which is a heck of lot better in my book than falling all over oneself to try to spin, excuse and deflect it away because it's inconvenient to strongly held assumptions.

I do apologize though if such talk makes you uncomfortable, since that is not the intent.

I think a good measure (though not foolproof) is whether or not you have actually changed or altered your positions after presented evidence.

The real mark of the partisan is that they are to close minded to ever actually change a stance they started with. When you are open to new evidence, you are open to change your position on something.

Are we talking about partisans, or ideologues? There's significant difference.

 

[FA_Q2]

Get your glasses checked since neither Mac nor I claimed any such thing, I can't speak for Mac but I myself make my best effort to cut through the fog of falsehood and figure out the truth (and no I don't claim 100% success), which is a heck of lot better in my book than falling all over oneself to try to spin, excuse and deflect it away because it's inconvenient to strongly held assumptions.

I do apologize though if such talk makes you uncomfortable, since that is not the intent.

I think a good measure (though not foolproof) is whether or not you have actually changed or altered your positions after presented evidence.

The real mark of the partisan is that they are to close minded to ever actually change a stance they started with. When you are open to new evidence, you are open to change your position on something.

Are we talking about partisans, or ideologues? There's significant difference.

OP specified partisans.

 

[dblack]

I think a good measure (though not foolproof) is whether or not you have actually changed or altered your positions after presented evidence.

The real mark of the partisan is that they are to close minded to ever actually change a stance they started with. When you are open to new evidence, you are open to change your position on something.

Are we talking about partisans, or ideologues? There's significant difference.

OP specified partisans.

I don't find partisans to be, necessarily, stubborn about their ideals. The mark of the partisan, in my view, is their dedication to party over ideals. They change their positions all the time depending the current political situation (eg the Republican support for insurance mandates unless it's the Dems idea).

 

[FA_Q2]

Are we talking about partisans, or ideologues? There's significant difference.

OP specified partisans.

I don't find partisans to be, necessarily, stubborn about their ideals. The mark of the partisan, in my view, is their dedication to party over ideals. They change their positions all the time depending the current political situation (eg the Republican support for insurance mandates unless it's the Dems idea).

Good point. Perhaps ideologue fits my description better than. I guess I was looking at a ‘now’ snapshot where a partisan will hold whatever decision that the party has blessed no matter the evidence and will never switch positions.

Though, if you ask a partisan, usually they can’t identify actually supporting a previous position. It is just like 1984, we are war with Eurasia because we have always been at war with Eurasia or the chocolate ration is going UP from 50 to 25….

 

[Pete7469]

Really. What kind of person are you really here? Do you spout partisan crap or do ya try to be fair? How hard do you try to be fair, or do you think deep down you need some help on it?

It'd be cool if you'd like to go through my test to see how fair and honest you really are. If you admit you're a partisan or a bit dishonest at times at least you've got some cajones to admit who you are.

If you wanna show how you're honest and fair then post here and also give your view on how to be it.

I'm hyperpartisan, "fairness" is a liberal term for "letting us win", and I never post anything if I do not believe it's true.

You cannot win an arguement posting bullshit, regardless of how many times you regurgitate it.

 

[NightFox]

I think a good measure (though not foolproof) is whether or not you have actually changed or altered your positions after presented evidence.

Most definitely, If I wasn't challenging and modifying my own assumptions at least a couple of times a week I'd suspect something was wrong.

IMHO it all starts by understanding a few things:

(all my opinions based on my own experience, mileage may vary)

1) rank-and-file Democrats are not evil people, they are good people that want the same thing that everybody wants, specifically whats best for our Country and it's people, same goes for rank-and-file Republicans.

2) neither "side" has the best ideas on all issues, there's room for everybody to contribute to the problem solving process.

3) Always assume that any politician and any media outlet is lying until the preponderance of the objective evidence suggests otherwise.

4) Politicians don't have your best interests at heart, they have their own best interests at heart regardless of the letter behind their name.

5) You do yourself and your country FAR more service by being critical of your own party than you do by being critical of the opposition party.

6) Feeding your confirmation bias only makes it stronger, starving it will eventually kill it off.

7) The truth is often in the last place you look and often speaks with the softest voice but it should be the only thing you're interested in finding.

8) Become "politically unreliable" that way neither party can take your vote for granted.

 

[KevinWestern]

Really. What kind of person are you really here? Do you spout partisan crap or do ya try to be fair? How hard do you try to be fair, or do you think deep down you need some help on it?

It'd be cool if you'd like to go through my test to see how fair and honest you really are. If you admit you're a partisan or a bit dishonest at times at least you've got some cajones to admit who you are.

If you wanna show how you're honest and fair then post here and also give your view on how to be it.

I feel like I'm usually a fair and honest person.

I think the key to being honest here is willing to admit you are wrong when someone truly does change your mind about something. I feel like a good portion of folks here are somewhat incapable of having their minds changed, and are open to (pretty much) only listening to themselves. Makes for a rather pointless conversation.

.

 

[PredFan]

Depends. I respond in kind.

 

[Mac1958]

I think a good measure (though not foolproof) is whether or not you have actually changed or altered your positions after presented evidence.

Most definitely, If I wasn't challenging and modifying my own assumptions at least a couple of times a week I'd suspect something was wrong.

IMHO it all starts by understanding a few things:

(all my opinions based on my own experience, mileage may vary)

1) rank-and-file Democrats are not evil people, they are good people that want the same thing that everybody wants, specifically whats best for our Country and it's people, same goes for rank-and-file Republicans.

2) neither "side" has the best ideas on all issues, there's room for everybody to contribute to the problem solving process.

3) Always assume that any politician and any media outlet is lying until the preponderance of the objective evidence suggests otherwise.

4) Politicians don't have your best interests at heart, they have their own best interests at heart regardless of the letter behind their name.

5) You do yourself and your country FAR more service by being critical of your own party than you do by being critical of the opposition party.

6) Feeding your confirmation bias only makes it stronger, starving it will eventually kill it off.

7) The truth is often in the last place you look and often speaks with the softest voice but it should be the only thing you're interested in finding.

8) Become "politically unreliable" that way neither party can take your vote for granted.

Wow.

Bravo.

This stuff really isn't all that difficult to grasp by a reasonable, open, curious mind.

.

 

[g5000]

Really. What kind of person are you really here? Do you spout partisan crap or do ya try to be fair? How hard do you try to be fair, or do you think deep down you need some help on it?

It'd be cool if you'd like to go through my test to see how fair and honest you really are. If you admit you're a partisan or a bit dishonest at times at least you've got some cajones to admit who you are.

If you wanna show how you're honest and fair then post here and also give your view on how to be it.

For me, truth and logic are the first priority. If someone tells a lie, or uses logical fallacies to support an argument, I will unpack it even if the attack was against someone I can't stand (Obama).

That always comes first, second, and third.

I believe every philosophy must be built on solid ground. Anyone who constructs their belief system on a foundation of illusions, false premises, lies, and hate is a corrupting influence that will ultimately bring down the entire structure if enough such people infect it.

The ideological battle is won by superior ideas. If I hear a superior idea, I will take it on board no matter the source.

Unfortunately, we don't hear any superior ideas from any quarter these days.

 

[hjmick]

You tell me...

Some people have called me a "right winger" and some have called me a "leftie."

 

[NightFox]

You tell me...

Some people have called me a "right winger" and some have called me a "leftie."

Just an indication that both sides of your brain are functioning normally.

 

[Pete7469]

Are we talking about partisans, or ideologues? There's significant difference.

OP specified partisans.

I don't find partisans to be, necessarily, stubborn about their ideals. The mark of the partisan, in my view, is their dedication to party over ideals. They change their positions all the time depending the current political situation (eg the Republican support for insurance mandates unless it's the Dems idea).

I guess by that definition I'm just an extreme anti-leftist.

I don't agree with republicrats on every issue, or with libertarians or conservatives.

I vehemently disagree with liberals on almost every issue though and the few things I agree with them on, I have different motivations for promoting it.

Take abortion for instance. I'm basically pro-choice.

It's not because I think it's ok for such a monstrously barbaric procedure to be done because being pregnant isn't "convienent" for someone not smart enough to use birth control, or callous enough to put themselves ahead of a baby's life.

It's because more often that not moral people wouldn't consider such a procedure. Immoral libtard obozo voters generally get abortions. I want less moonbats in the world, more than I want abortion restricted.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I think a good measure (though not foolproof) is whether or not you have actually changed or altered your positions after presented evidence.

Most definitely, If I wasn't challenging and modifying my own assumptions at least a couple of times a week I'd suspect something was wrong.

IMHO it all starts by understanding a few things:

(all my opinions based on my own experience, mileage may vary)

1) rank-and-file Democrats are not evil people, they are good people that want the same thing that everybody wants, specifically whats best for our Country and it's people, same goes for rank-and-file Republicans.

agreed

2) neither "side" has the best ideas on all issues, there's room for everybody to contribute to the problem solving process.

agreed

3) Always assume that any politician and any media outlet is lying until the preponderance of the objective evidence suggests otherwise.

Not quite. One may assume that the politician is spinning the truth and that the media may stretch it. But to assume that they are lying is a bit overdone. Not saying this is common, but I have a good bullshit detector.

We are better served by just understanding what motivates the speaker and judging the comments with that in mind.

4) Politicians don't have your best interests at heart, they have their own best interests at heart regardless of the letter behind their name.

Not always. There are public servants who are absolutely working for the public good. And I would say that many young politicians enter with the best intentions.

5) You do yourself and your country FAR more service by being critical of your own party than you do by being critical of the opposition party.

Or.....how about not having a party?
6) Feeding your confirmation bias only makes it stronger, starving it will eventually kill it off.

agreed
7) The truth is often in the last place you look and often speaks with the softest voice but it should be the only thing you're interested in finding.

Not sure about that. I find the truth quickly in most cases. When I don't know the truth of a matter, I don't open my trap about it.
8) Become "politically unreliable" that way neither party can take your vote for granted.

That last one sounds nice.

 

[rightwinger]

You tell me...

Some people have called me a "right winger" and some have called me a "leftie."

Some people call me a Space Cowboy
Some call me the Gangster of Love

 

[hjmick]

You tell me...

Some people have called me a "right winger" and some have called me a "leftie."

Some people call me a Space Cowboy
Some call me the Gangster of Love

Is that you Maurice?

 

[Solaris]

Some people like to think they're honest when they really aren't. It's so easy for people to make dumb arguments and say it's honest because they actually believe it. Thinking your stance is honest just because you believe it is doesn't mean it is. How about you use logic and reason before posting, please? People don't qualify their comments because they don't think there's any need to be fair in politics. Saying all this or all that is THIS is both dishonest and unfair.

And all this partisan butt-drippings are never gonna stop. It's too hard to not do stupid things. Like making partisan platitudes or using partisan quips or namecalling. People are so biased and maybe it's just part of human nature. Few people care to think before they post, by using logic, being fair, and not being a dick.

PEOPLE JUST DON'T THINK!!! Imagine what you could do if you used more of your brain and less of your base nature.
Be honest kind and logical, but don't be a dick and also keep your mouth shut so you don't say stupid or rude things. If USMB was a game where people who do these dumb things get shocked, it might be true that a lot would die and most others would suffer elctrical damage.

Why are people this way???

 

[birddog]

I am too honest for my own good sometimes. I call myself an "ultra-conservative with libertarian tendencies." I am libertarian on foreign policy, weed, and homosexual unions. I don't like the word "gay" because it means happy to me, and was created to soften the abnormality of homosexuality.

I vote Republican because I have a brain, and do not believe third parties are viable. I believe that is fair. I try to see all perspectives unlike the rabid liberals who will never consider any perspective but their own.