How Does Teacher Tenure and Seniority Help Students?

[saveliberty]

Want to free up money for students? Our county has about twelve school districts each has their own superintendent. The districts are relatively small (less than 2,000 students per district). These people are paid about $150,000 per year with benefits. Have one superintendent and consolidate purchasing for all schools under that person.

Go one step further.

Have distance learning courses where one teacher can teach the same course at all 12 schools simultaneously and all you need is a monitor in each class room instead of full fledged teachers.

I had a couple of college classes like that. Always did better with a teacher up front, unless it was math and the teacher had a heavy foreign accent.

 

[Jackson]

Want to free up money for students? Our county has about twelve school districts each has their own superintendent. The districts are relatively small (less than 2,000 students per district). These people are paid about $150,000 per year with benefits. Have one superintendent and consolidate purchasing for all schools under that person.

Go one step further.

Have distance learning courses where one teacher can teach the same course at all 12 schools simultaneously and all you need is a monitor in each class room instead of full fledged teachers.

I really don't like that idea. We need real teachers in the classrooms that can teach, assist and motivate students in each classroom. That's assuming we have good teachers.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Want to free up money for students? Our county has about twelve school districts each has their own superintendent. The districts are relatively small (less than 2,000 students per district). These people are paid about $150,000 per year with benefits. Have one superintendent and consolidate purchasing for all schools under that person.

Go one step further.

Have distance learning courses where one teacher can teach the same course at all 12 schools simultaneously and all you need is a monitor in each class room instead of full fledged teachers.

I really don't like that idea. We need real teachers in the classrooms that can teach, assist and motivate students in each classroom. That's assuming we have good teachers.

We offer about a half dozen distance learning classes at our school. It's vital, we're a small district we can't hire a teacher who speaks Russian for the 1 kid who may want to take it.But we have computers and the internet. Is no problem, we sign him up for a distance learning course.

 

[Jackson]

Want to free up money for students? Our county has about twelve school districts each has their own superintendent. The districts are relatively small (less than 2,000 students per district). These people are paid about $150,000 per year with benefits. Have one superintendent and consolidate purchasing for all schools under that person.

Go one step further.

Have distance learning courses where one teacher can teach the same course at all 12 schools simultaneously and all you need is a monitor in each class room instead of full fledged teachers.

I really don't like that idea. We need real teachers in the classrooms that can teach, assist and motivate students in each classroom. That's assuming we have good teachers.

We offer about a half dozen distance learning classes at our school. It's vital, we're a small district we can't hire a teacher who speaks Russian for the 1 kid who may want to take it.But we have computers and the internet. Is no problem, we sign him up for a distance learning course.

I understand the need, then. You are offering choices you normally couldn't offer.

 

[saveliberty]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

 

[Disir]

Enrollment of Students With Disabilities in Charters
Critics of charter schools have argued that charters enroll students with disabilities less frequently than public schools, particularly when it comes to students with more severe disabilities, who may be more difficult or costly to educate.1, 2, 7 These criticisms are supported by anecdotal research suggesting that some charters had "counseled out" students with disabilities—that is, they had discouraged parents and caregivers of students with more severe special needs from enrolling in their school, suggesting that the school was not prepared to meet those needs.1, 2, 5 Adding to the controversy surrounding charters and students with special needs, comparisons of charters with noncharter public schools often highlight considerable segregation, with low-income students, English language learners, and students with special needs enrolled at lower percentages in charters.2

Students With Disabilities in Charter Schools LD Topics LD OnLine

There hasn't been a lot of over site in this area with vouchers.

 

[Rikurzhen]

no they haven't , else we wouldn't be having this discussion

The demographics have changed. That's what is driving this discussion. Same too with mainstreaming kids. They're now included in aggregate measures.

Also, while were on the subject, you want to know the REAL reason private schools do better than public schools?

Ok here it is

As a public school, you have to accept EVERY child that lives within your district. Doesn't matter if that kid comes in kicking and screaming and declaring every day that he doesn't want to learn, he has a right to be there. Doesn't matter that they are too handicapped to take advantage of any learning situation, they have a right to be there. Doesn't even matter if they can communicate with the teachers or not, they have a right to be there.

I'd be surprised if anyone here doesn't know this. It's no secret that you're revealing.

So logically you can see that vouchers would start bringing the less able or willing students into private schools lowering their averages.

Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want.

This is the endgame of the revolution that liberals launched. The reduction of the public school system to the school of last resort.

You obviously do not know how federal funds work, you accept those vouchers, you accept any students the government tells you to. FACT

I seem to understand how the political process works where you don't. As more parents flee the public system, support for public school financing will decline and pressure to shift that funding to voucher programs will increase. As good students flee the incentive to flee for the good students remaining in the system increases, accelerating the erosion of support for public schools. The end state of this PROCESS is that funding will be tied to each child, not to school districts or individual schools. The only question here is how long will it take for this process to run its course.

 

[saveliberty]

Can't win with LD kids. You try to provide specialized care in an offsite location and you aren't mainstreaming. You mainstream and it burdens the regular school.

 

[Disir]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Enrollment of Students With Disabilities in Charters
Critics of charter schools have argued that charters enroll students with disabilities less frequently than public schools, particularly when it comes to students with more severe disabilities, who may be more difficult or costly to educate.1, 2, 7 These criticisms are supported by anecdotal research suggesting that some charters had "counseled out" students with disabilities—that is, they had discouraged parents and caregivers of students with more severe special needs from enrolling in their school, suggesting that the school was not prepared to meet those needs.1, 2, 5 Adding to the controversy surrounding charters and students with special needs, comparisons of charters with noncharter public schools often highlight considerable segregation, with low-income students, English language learners, and students with special needs enrolled at lower percentages in charters.2

Students With Disabilities in Charter Schools LD Topics LD OnLine

There hasn't been a lot of over site in this area with vouchers.

I actually agree with charter schools on this, I think public schools should be able to tell parents no. One family shouldn't be able to hold a school hostage for 10% of their budget over ONE child. That's preposterous

 

[GHook93]

I'm sorry but WHAT?

I pay Federal Tax, State Tax, City Tax, Sales Tax, Property Tax and a whole lotta other taxes. What happened during the Bush Cataclysm did have a direct effect on me, as many of those taxes I paid weren't used to improve roads, improve transportation, hire more sanitation or public service employees in general. And being that I work in the financial industry? As a direct result of those actions taken by those CEOs..I lost my job.

I spent over a year trying to land another one and had to mine my 401k to survive.

Which by the way? I got heavily taxed for..

Don't tell me that those schmucks didn't directly affect me.

They did.

I am sorry I attacked you about your job. I got laid off in Feb from a place I was at for close to 10 yrs. I found a job a month later, but I remember the fear an anxiety! I am glad you found another job!

 

[Disir]

Enrollment of Students With Disabilities in Charters
Critics of charter schools have argued that charters enroll students with disabilities less frequently than public schools, particularly when it comes to students with more severe disabilities, who may be more difficult or costly to educate.1, 2, 7 These criticisms are supported by anecdotal research suggesting that some charters had "counseled out" students with disabilities—that is, they had discouraged parents and caregivers of students with more severe special needs from enrolling in their school, suggesting that the school was not prepared to meet those needs.1, 2, 5 Adding to the controversy surrounding charters and students with special needs, comparisons of charters with noncharter public schools often highlight considerable segregation, with low-income students, English language learners, and students with special needs enrolled at lower percentages in charters.2

Students With Disabilities in Charter Schools LD Topics LD OnLine

There hasn't been a lot of over site in this area with vouchers.

I actually agree with charter schools on this, I think public schools should be able to tell parents no. One family shouldn't be able to hold a school hostage for 10% of their budget over ONE child. That's preposterous

I agree depending on the disability. But, if these turkeys are going to take the cash then they can educate those with disabilities.

 

[saveliberty]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Prevent is a strong word in this context, aid or make allowances might be better terms.

For instance breakfast, eat it at home and maybe even have a parent make it. Take the child to the grocery store and let them see it costs money and how to find healthy choices. Use your WIC, if necessary. This versus send your kid to school with no meal and let the school feed them.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Enrollment of Students With Disabilities in Charters
Critics of charter schools have argued that charters enroll students with disabilities less frequently than public schools, particularly when it comes to students with more severe disabilities, who may be more difficult or costly to educate.1, 2, 7 These criticisms are supported by anecdotal research suggesting that some charters had "counseled out" students with disabilities—that is, they had discouraged parents and caregivers of students with more severe special needs from enrolling in their school, suggesting that the school was not prepared to meet those needs.1, 2, 5 Adding to the controversy surrounding charters and students with special needs, comparisons of charters with noncharter public schools often highlight considerable segregation, with low-income students, English language learners, and students with special needs enrolled at lower percentages in charters.2

Students With Disabilities in Charter Schools LD Topics LD OnLine

There hasn't been a lot of over site in this area with vouchers.

I actually agree with charter schools on this, I think public schools should be able to tell parents no. One family shouldn't be able to hold a school hostage for 10% of their budget over ONE child. That's preposterous

I agree depending on the disability. But, if these turkeys are going to take the cash then they can educate those with disabilities.

Did you read the story I posted earlier. We offered the parents $250K to have their child cared for at home. They already had the facilities required so it was just a matter of hiring a caretaker , buying a specialized vehicle and a few other expenses. They said NO we want our child in school and we were forced by a court order to comply. It cost 5 times as much per year. The child passed after 2 years. That's $2.5M wasted , no ifs and or buts about it.

 

[Jackson]

no they haven't , else we wouldn't be having this discussion

The demographics have changed. That's what is driving this discussion. Same too with mainstreaming kids. They're now included in aggregate measures.

Also, while were on the subject, you want to know the REAL reason private schools do better than public schools?

Ok here it is

As a public school, you have to accept EVERY child that lives within your district. Doesn't matter if that kid comes in kicking and screaming and declaring every day that he doesn't want to learn, he has a right to be there. Doesn't matter that they are too handicapped to take advantage of any learning situation, they have a right to be there. Doesn't even matter if they can communicate with the teachers or not, they have a right to be there.

I'd be surprised if anyone here doesn't know this. It's no secret that you're revealing.

So logically you can see that vouchers would start bringing the less able or willing students into private schools lowering their averages.

Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want.

This is the endgame of the revolution that liberals launched. The reduction of the public school system to the school of last resort.

You obviously do not know how federal funds work, you accept those vouchers, you accept any students the government tells you to. FACT

I seem to understand how the political process works where you don't. As more parents flee the public system, support for public school financing will decline and pressure to shift that funding to voucher programs will increase. As good students flee the incentive to flee for the good students remaining in the system increases, accelerating the erosion of support for public schools. The end state of this PROCESS is that funding will be tied to each child, not to school districts or individual schools. The only question here is how long will it take for this process to run its course.

Undesirable students will want to come to the charter schools and cannot be turned away.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Enrollment of Students With Disabilities in Charters
Critics of charter schools have argued that charters enroll students with disabilities less frequently than public schools, particularly when it comes to students with more severe disabilities, who may be more difficult or costly to educate.1, 2, 7 These criticisms are supported by anecdotal research suggesting that some charters had "counseled out" students with disabilities—that is, they had discouraged parents and caregivers of students with more severe special needs from enrolling in their school, suggesting that the school was not prepared to meet those needs.1, 2, 5 Adding to the controversy surrounding charters and students with special needs, comparisons of charters with noncharter public schools often highlight considerable segregation, with low-income students, English language learners, and students with special needs enrolled at lower percentages in charters.2

Students With Disabilities in Charter Schools LD Topics LD OnLine

There hasn't been a lot of over site in this area with vouchers.

These analysts obviously don't understand the APPEAL of charter schools. The solution here is simple - the analysts send their own kids to public schools, alongside all white liberals, and the presence of their kids will help the disabled kids, the ELL and special needs kids and the minority kids.

This analysis reads like the parable about the crabs in the bucket where one crab is trying to climb out to escape his fate and the other crabs can't stand that he's escaping while they're not so they pull the escaping crab back into the bucket.

Liberals so wanted to create a multicultural society, they so didn't like the "white bread" culture of the sixties when public schools were dominant, most of high quality, and private schools were a fringe phenomenon. Well, you got what you wanted, liberals. Now people are fleeing what you created. You put your own kids into the maw if you believe so strongly in the vision of society that you created.

 

[saveliberty]

Just want to take a moment and thank everyone for a civil discussion about an important issue.

Wonder what will happen when people find out we did this?

 

[Disir]

Enrollment of Students With Disabilities in Charters
Critics of charter schools have argued that charters enroll students with disabilities less frequently than public schools, particularly when it comes to students with more severe disabilities, who may be more difficult or costly to educate.1, 2, 7 These criticisms are supported by anecdotal research suggesting that some charters had "counseled out" students with disabilities—that is, they had discouraged parents and caregivers of students with more severe special needs from enrolling in their school, suggesting that the school was not prepared to meet those needs.1, 2, 5 Adding to the controversy surrounding charters and students with special needs, comparisons of charters with noncharter public schools often highlight considerable segregation, with low-income students, English language learners, and students with special needs enrolled at lower percentages in charters.2

Students With Disabilities in Charter Schools LD Topics LD OnLine

There hasn't been a lot of over site in this area with vouchers.

These analysts obviously don't understand the APPEAL of charter schools. The solution here is simple - the analysts send their own kids to public schools, alongside all white liberals, and the presence of their kids will help the disabled kids, the ELL and special needs kids and the minority kids.

This analysis reads like the parable about the crabs in the bucket where one crab is trying to climb out to escape his fate and the other crabs can't stand that he's escaping while they're not so they pull the escaping crab back into the bucket.

Liberals so wanted to create a multicultural society, they so didn't like the "white bread" culture of the sixties when public schools were dominant, most of high quality, and private schools were a fringe phenomenon. Well, you got what you wanted, liberals. Now people are fleeing what you created. You put your own kids into the maw if you believe so strongly in the vision of society that you created.

Inclusion is not a liberal thang. It's a too cheap to pay for special needs teachers thang. Secondly, my kid is in public education. That's all uber conservative. Like blaming the teachers and unions for an attempt to steal the public education cash thang. Although, the Democrats and the Republicans are really good at playing well in this arena. Thanks for playing.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

no they haven't , else we wouldn't be having this discussion

The demographics have changed. That's what is driving this discussion. Same too with mainstreaming kids. They're now included in aggregate measures.

Also, while were on the subject, you want to know the REAL reason private schools do better than public schools?

Ok here it is

As a public school, you have to accept EVERY child that lives within your district. Doesn't matter if that kid comes in kicking and screaming and declaring every day that he doesn't want to learn, he has a right to be there. Doesn't matter that they are too handicapped to take advantage of any learning situation, they have a right to be there. Doesn't even matter if they can communicate with the teachers or not, they have a right to be there.

I'd be surprised if anyone here doesn't know this. It's no secret that you're revealing.

So logically you can see that vouchers would start bringing the less able or willing students into private schools lowering their averages.

Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want.

This is the endgame of the revolution that liberals launched. The reduction of the public school system to the school of last resort.

You obviously do not know how federal funds work, you accept those vouchers, you accept any students the government tells you to. FACT

I seem to understand how the political process works where you don't. As more parents flee the public system, support for public school financing will decline and pressure to shift that funding to voucher programs will increase. As good students flee the incentive to flee for the good students remaining in the system increases, accelerating the erosion of support for public schools. The end state of this PROCESS is that funding will be tied to each child, not to school districts or individual schools. The only question here is how long will it take for this process to run its course.

you are insane if you think only good students will be taking these vouchers and going to private schools.


And once again, vouchers are WELFARE

 

[saveliberty]

Not sure what inclusion is in all schools. Here it means being part of school activities like pep assemblies, lunch, sports (if reasonable) and other socialization opportunities.