How Does Teacher Tenure and Seniority Help Students?

[JakeStarkey]

A charter school is only as good as its director and the board.

If they are scammers, the problem will become very obvious very quickly.

They can almost always be taken down by following the money, particularly on fraudulent service or employee contracts.

 

[Jackson]

our school gives our teachers the same test as we give their students as the end of every school year. If they don't make an A, they aren't invited back for the next school year. If they don't agree to those terms, they aren't hired to begin with.

This must be a private or charter school. I like this idea!

 

[Disir]

Except they aren't.

 

[saveliberty]

no they haven't , else we wouldn't be having this discussion

Also, while were on the subject, you want to know the REAL reason private schools do better than public schools?

Ok here it is

As a public school, you have to accept EVERY child that lives within your district. Doesn't matter if that kid comes in kicking and screaming and declaring every day that he doesn't want to learn, he has a right to be there. Doesn't matter that they are too handicapped to take advantage of any learning situation, they have a right to be there. Doesn't even matter if they can communicate with the teachers or not, they have a right to be there.

So you invariably have kids who neither they nor their parents give a shit about education and you have kids who's parents are essentially using the schoool as a baby sitter for their handicapped child, and ALL those kids are

A) Sucking up resources that could go towards educating kids who want to learn

and

B) being figured in the GPA averages and test score averages bringing the numbers down lower than they would naturally be without them

Meanwhile of course private schools first of all are expensive and so only families serious about education usually send their kids their and second of all can simply turn away kids who can't meet whatever standards they want to set.

So logically you can see that vouchers would start bringing the less able or willing students into private schools lowering their averages.

My kids went to private school. Because of our economics, the school provided scholarships, which made it affordable. Several of the teachers were not certified. It is one of the top schools in the state. The teachers and administration are not highly compensated. The differences are parental involvement and peer pressure to achieve. Both are possible in the public school setting.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

our school gives our teachers the same test as we give their students as the end of every school year. If they don't make an A, they aren't invited back for the next school year. If they don't agree to those terms, they aren't hired to begin with.

This must be a private or charter school. I like this idea!

no sir, we're a public school. Weak teacher's unions here.

 

[Rikurzhen]

no they haven't , else we wouldn't be having this discussion

The demographics have changed. That's what is driving this discussion. Same too with mainstreaming kids. They're now included in aggregate measures.

Also, while were on the subject, you want to know the REAL reason private schools do better than public schools?

Ok here it is

As a public school, you have to accept EVERY child that lives within your district. Doesn't matter if that kid comes in kicking and screaming and declaring every day that he doesn't want to learn, he has a right to be there. Doesn't matter that they are too handicapped to take advantage of any learning situation, they have a right to be there. Doesn't even matter if they can communicate with the teachers or not, they have a right to be there.

I'd be surprised if anyone here doesn't know this. It's no secret that you're revealing.

So logically you can see that vouchers would start bringing the less able or willing students into private schools lowering their averages.

Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want.

This is the endgame of the revolution that liberals launched. The reduction of the public school system to the school of last resort.

 

[saveliberty]

Except they aren't.

Do you specialize in random comments out of context or is it an experiment for you?

 

[Disir]

Except they aren't.

Do you specialize in random comments out of context or is it an experiment for you?

I specialize.

Charter schools are not almost always taken down.

 

[Jackson]

How Does Teacher Tenure and Seniority Help Students?

The idea is that it protects teachers from meat heads in administration and the community.

The issue is how to weed out incompetent teachers without violating that protection from meat heads.

Sometimes it isn't competency Jake. The teacher just burns out and stops caring.

A burned out teacher who does not care is incompetent, has to be. How to remove the teacher without threatening the good teachers is the problem.

The incompetent teacher should be recommended to a committee of mentors by the principal. They will observe and help the teacher for the year and write reports on the teacher's progress. At the end of the year, the annual report would recommend further mentoring on probation for one year or released from mentoring. The probation could lead to firing.

 

[saveliberty]

How Does Teacher Tenure and Seniority Help Students?

The idea is that it protects teachers from meat heads in administration and the community.

The issue is how to weed out incompetent teachers without violating that protection from meat heads.

Sometimes it isn't competency Jake. The teacher just burns out and stops caring.

A burned out teacher who does not care is incompetent, has to be. How to remove the teacher without threatening the good teachers is the problem.

1. the quality or condition of being incompetent; lack of ability.
Incompetence Define Incompetence at Dictionary.com

They have ability, just no desire.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Incompetence is inability to perform; does not preclude that once could perform to spec.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

no they haven't , else we wouldn't be having this discussion

The demographics have changed. That's what is driving this discussion. Same too with mainstreaming kids. They're now included in aggregate measures.

Also, while were on the subject, you want to know the REAL reason private schools do better than public schools?

Ok here it is

As a public school, you have to accept EVERY child that lives within your district. Doesn't matter if that kid comes in kicking and screaming and declaring every day that he doesn't want to learn, he has a right to be there. Doesn't matter that they are too handicapped to take advantage of any learning situation, they have a right to be there. Doesn't even matter if they can communicate with the teachers or not, they have a right to be there.

I'd be surprised if anyone here doesn't know this. It's no secret that you're revealing.

So logically you can see that vouchers would start bringing the less able or willing students into private schools lowering their averages.

Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want.

This is the endgame of the revolution that liberals launched. The reduction of the public school system to the school of last resort.

If it's not a secret then why are you others pretending that teachers is why public schools do worse than private schools? It's PARENTS 100%

A few years back we had a student in our school, very handicapped. I mean a child who broke your heart but at the same time there was NOTHING the school could teach this child. We knew it, the parents knew it. When they enrolled, we were told what we'd have to have to "educate" this child. It was going to cost $1.5M for ONE school year for this one child. Our entire school only had a budget of $9M at the. time K-12.

We offered the parents $250K a year for private care at home. Nope, not good enough. We went to court and were FORCED to "educate" this child. Two years and $3M later, she passed.

$3M that could have been spent improving the education of other children. And this was just ONE child, we had and still have several similar,but not as extreme cases.
We offered the parents $250K to hire a private nurse to watch their kid at home

 

[Jackson]

I certainly appreciate the work teachers do, and I have no problems with giving teachers protections against rash terminations, but I'm not sure how teacher tenure and seniority rules help kids.

They don't help the kids; they help the teachers' unions.

It's not a coincidence that as the unions have gained power and money, that the quality of education has declined.

No, the quality of teaching has not declined.

You are delusional.

Teacher quality most certainly has declined. Women's lib dealt a death blow to teacher quality.

That of course has a lot to do with the district you're in.
We pay the highest school taxes in the state and the schools are excellent as far as public schools go. And you have students who are raised properly so that goes a long way in making a school successful.

All you need to know to make a highly accurate prediction about school quality is this - how good are the students. Student quality is the principal driving factor behind student outcomes. Not spending, not teacher tenure, not teacher training, not computerization. It's all about what the kid does with the material.

Incorrect. What you REALLY need to know is, how good are the parents.

No, it's not the parent who is being assessed, it's the student. A parent could adopt a child and this breaks the genetic linkage between parent and child, leaving only family influence which has miniscule effect.

If the students is intelligent, open to learning, behaves himself, etc then you could teach that student in a log cabin and he'll do well.

In my experience parental influence makes ALL the difference. 75% of children simply are not equipped to motivate themselves to excel in their school work.

And yet throughout all of history children managed to do just fine without hovering parents motivating them.

It is all about expectations, also. My parents never asked about my grades as I can remember, nor was there any incentives. I just knew what was acceptable and what was not.

It's too bad, too. I loafed a lot. My brother was the achiever, student council and the A grades. But I worked in the office at school and peeked at out IQ tests and saw that mine was higher than his! Never told my parents...thought that they would demand I did my homework at home and not on the bus on the way to school. And they would expect a higher grade in Latin.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want." Very true. So make vouchers contingent that a school has to accept them all or accept none.

 

[Rikurzhen]

no they haven't , else we wouldn't be having this discussion

The demographics have changed. That's what is driving this discussion. Same too with mainstreaming kids. They're now included in aggregate measures.

Also, while were on the subject, you want to know the REAL reason private schools do better than public schools?

Ok here it is

As a public school, you have to accept EVERY child that lives within your district. Doesn't matter if that kid comes in kicking and screaming and declaring every day that he doesn't want to learn, he has a right to be there. Doesn't matter that they are too handicapped to take advantage of any learning situation, they have a right to be there. Doesn't even matter if they can communicate with the teachers or not, they have a right to be there.

I'd be surprised if anyone here doesn't know this. It's no secret that you're revealing.

So logically you can see that vouchers would start bringing the less able or willing students into private schools lowering their averages.

Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want.

This is the endgame of the revolution that liberals launched. The reduction of the public school system to the school of last resort.

If it's not a secret then why are you others pretending that teachers is why public schools do worse than private schools? It's PARENTS 100%

I'm not. Private schools came into this topic very late in the post count. No one has been arguing that position or did I miss that?

 

[Rikurzhen]

"Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want." Very true. So make vouchers contingent that a school has to accept them all or accept none.

No way. Here's the better idea. You send your kids to public schools and sacrifice your kids so that other, troubled, kids can benefit from having your kids in school with them. All liberals should do that. Normal people want to protect their kids, not sacrifice them to uphold liberal values.

The whole point of voucher schools is to escape from bad students.

 

[saveliberty]

Want to free up money for students? Our county has about twelve school districts each has their own superintendent. The districts are relatively small (less than 2,000 students per district). These people are paid about $150,000 per year with benefits. Have one superintendent and consolidate purchasing for all schools under that person.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Want to free up money for students? Our county has about twelve school districts each has their own superintendent. The districts are relatively small (less than 2,000 students per district). These people are paid about $150,000 per year with benefits. Have one superintendent and consolidate purchasing for all schools under that person.

Go one step further.

Have distance learning courses where one teacher can teach the same course at all 12 schools simultaneously and all you need is a monitor in each class room instead of full fledged teachers.

 

[Jackson]

our school gives our teachers the same test as we give their students as the end of every school year. If they don't make an A, they aren't invited back for the next school year. If they don't agree to those terms, they aren't hired to begin with.

This must be a private or charter school. I like this idea!

no sir, we're a public school. Weak teacher's unions here.

Amazing! Weak union is right! lol!

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

no they haven't , else we wouldn't be having this discussion

The demographics have changed. That's what is driving this discussion. Same too with mainstreaming kids. They're now included in aggregate measures.

Also, while were on the subject, you want to know the REAL reason private schools do better than public schools?

Ok here it is

As a public school, you have to accept EVERY child that lives within your district. Doesn't matter if that kid comes in kicking and screaming and declaring every day that he doesn't want to learn, he has a right to be there. Doesn't matter that they are too handicapped to take advantage of any learning situation, they have a right to be there. Doesn't even matter if they can communicate with the teachers or not, they have a right to be there.

I'd be surprised if anyone here doesn't know this. It's no secret that you're revealing.

So logically you can see that vouchers would start bringing the less able or willing students into private schools lowering their averages.

Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want.

This is the endgame of the revolution that liberals launched. The reduction of the public school system to the school of last resort.

You obviously do not know how federal funds work, you accept those vouchers, you accept any students the government tells you to. FACT