How Does Teacher Tenure and Seniority Help Students?

[saveliberty]

Come on Disir, did you really read that in the post?

Where are the lines of what a parent should be responsible for with their child? What are reasonable exceptions?

Ya. Look, there is a group of people called Parents as Teachers that promoted a few of those programs.
Health covers sex ed and nutrition and absolutely should be there.

You aren't addressing what is a parent's responsibility. It sounds more like excuses to be honest.

 

[Jackson]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Yes. Class time for Mr. Tooth (2 hours) on how to brush your teeth! Healthy Bear on eating right; Safe Touch, Bad Touch, sex; Fireman Freddie; Police Officer - crossing the street; Puppets - The Arts; Dance - The Ballet (Arts); Opera - Arts ... This takes time away from Reading, Math and Language Arts... But don't forget the Cookie Drives and Christmas shows....

We take the responsibilities from the parents..can't they teach their children to brush their teeth, to cross the street safely, not to allow anyone to touch their private parts? Come on parents...step up to the plate!

Ya, so you just sit there you kindergartner you and face the front and read Beowulf.

Come on.

Kids do more in school than sit and listen. They are actually learning to read, do math and learning to write, that is if they are not sitting there listening to Mr. Tooth for a couple of hours. Maybe Mom can teach Johnny to brush his teeth when she is free. We are kind of busy at school.

Ya, I know. Teaching to the test is awesome. Never let anything stand in the way of that.

You are really a piece of work, aren't you? Yes, reading and math are on the test, so I am teaching TO THE TEST! It happens to be part of the curriculum. So, you might say they are testing if I am teaching what is on the curriculum. But that doesn't roll with your agenda...does it?

I would love to see you try to fill the shoes of a good teacher and flounder in what would be the most difficult job you would have ever had. That is if you would try to be good at it. Would you try to be good at it? I wonder.

 

[saveliberty]

Some of these kids take the food and pocket it so that they have something to eat later. We still have homeless kids in schools.

I strongly disagree with removing those programs.

So providing a home isn't a parental responsibility?

Of course it is. What do you want to do? How many that are responsible for the recent crash are in prison?

Ya, about that responsibility.

Deflection, we are discussing parental responsibilities.

So far we have provide a home.

 

[Jackson]

Some of these kids take the food and pocket it so that they have something to eat later. We still have homeless kids in schools.

I strongly disagree with removing those programs.

So providing a home isn't a parental responsibility?

Of course it is. What do you want to do? How many that are responsible for the recent crash are in prison?

Ya, about that responsibility.

Deflection, we are discussing parental responsibilities.

So far we have provide a home.

Not even that. According to DISIR, the parents provide a house. Let the schools feed, raise, educate and sometimes clothe the kids.

 

[saveliberty]

I think she mentioned that. I would guess she is a great parent and probably does many things to help her child be successful in school and life. Now, if we could just get her to enumerate them here, it would be a good start on parental responsibilities.

 

[Disir]

Come on Disir, did you really read that in the post?

Where are the lines of what a parent should be responsible for with their child? What are reasonable exceptions?

Ya. Look, there is a group of people called Parents as Teachers that promoted a few of those programs.
Health covers sex ed and nutrition and absolutely should be there.

You aren't addressing what is a parent's responsibility. It sounds more like excuses to be honest.

Food, housing, electricity, water and clothing. In theory, parents would be able to teach their children Kleenex but some of those kids have never seen it.

There is what should be and then there is what it is.

So, spending my time saying.......you should doesn't quite address problems such as homelessness. I could play smack a parent all day long. Doesn't accomplish anything. There are programs that piss me off and that is no lie.

 

[Disir]

Some of these kids take the food and pocket it so that they have something to eat later. We still have homeless kids in schools.

I strongly disagree with removing those programs.

So providing a home isn't a parental responsibility?

Of course it is. What do you want to do? How many that are responsible for the recent crash are in prison?

Ya, about that responsibility.

Deflection, we are discussing parental responsibilities.

So far we have provide a home.

Not even that. According to DISIR, the parents provide a house. Let the schools feed, raise, educate and sometimes clothe the kids.

You have nothing on according to Disir. Try again.

 

[Disir]

I think she mentioned that. I would guess she is a great parent and probably does many things to help her child be successful in school and life. Now, if we could just get her to enumerate them here, it would be a good start on parental responsibilities.

Oh, you want me to make comparisons between how I raise my kid to all other parents?

Are you kidding me?

 

[Jackson]

Come on Disir, did you really read that in the post?

Where are the lines of what a parent should be responsible for with their child? What are reasonable exceptions?

Ya. Look, there is a group of people called Parents as Teachers that promoted a few of those programs.
Health covers sex ed and nutrition and absolutely should be there.

You aren't addressing what is a parent's responsibility. It sounds more like excuses to be honest.

Food, housing, electricity, water and clothing. In theory, parents would be able to teach their children Kleenex but some of those kids have never seen it.

There is what should be and then there is what it is.

So, spending my time saying.......you should doesn't quite address problems such as homelessness. I could play smack a parent all day long. Doesn't accomplish anything. There are programs that piss me off and that is no lie.

I can't imagine that there are programs that piss you off. For credibility sake, name a couple and maybe we can find some common ground. right now I see you as a radical liberal.

 

[jasonnfree]

It's pretty simple. It's experience. Teaching is not a McDonalds job or even an assembly line job. Kids are not cheeseburgers.

I'm far more interested in quality and accountability.

And much of their "experience" is a result of being protected by tenure.

.

Depending on the locale, tenure gives you some protection from being fired. It's protection from being let go from some administrator that has it out for you. It doesn't make you "fire" proof. My info comes from a couple friends and family members who are teachers.

 

[saveliberty]

Food, housing, electricity, water and clothing. In theory, parents would be able to teach their children Kleenex but some of those kids have never seen it.

There is what should be and then there is what it is.

So, spending my time saying.......you should doesn't quite address problems such as homelessness. I could play smack a parent all day long. Doesn't accomplish anything. There are programs that piss me off and that is no lie.

Thank you for stating your position in a concise and thoughtful way Disir. We seem to agree on the basic responsibilities of parents. I understand what you mean with, "There is what should be and then there is what it is." My approach to that is government shouldn't just step in and provide. It should educate and support the parent into fulfilling their role by themselves over time. This affords an opportunity to end the problem.

 

[Disir]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Yes. Class time for Mr. Tooth (2 hours) on how to brush your teeth! Healthy Bear on eating right; Safe Touch, Bad Touch, sex; Fireman Freddie; Police Officer - crossing the street; Puppets - The Arts; Dance - The Ballet (Arts); Opera - Arts ... This takes time away from Reading, Math and Language Arts... But don't forget the Cookie Drives and Christmas shows....

We take the responsibilities from the parents..can't they teach their children to brush their teeth, to cross the street safely, not to allow anyone to touch their private parts? Come on parents...step up to the plate!

Ya, so you just sit there you kindergartner you and face the front and read Beowulf.

Come on.

Kids do more in school than sit and listen. They are actually learning to read, do math and learning to write, that is if they are not sitting there listening to Mr. Tooth for a couple of hours. Maybe Mom can teach Johnny to brush his teeth when she is free. We are kind of busy at school.

Ya, I know. Teaching to the test is awesome. Never let anything stand in the way of that.

You are really a piece of work, aren't you? Yes, reading and math are on the test, so I am teaching TO THE TEST! It happens to be part of the curriculum. So, you might say they are testing if I am teaching what is on the curriculum. But that doesn't roll with your agenda...does it?

I would love to see you try to fill the shoes of a good teacher and flounder in what would be the most difficult job you would have ever had. That is if you would try to be good at it. Would you try to be good at it? I wonder.

Yes, I am. You have anything besides insults?

 

[saveliberty]

Love and respect are good things to learn at home and practice in school (and on message boards).

 

[Disir]

Food, housing, electricity, water and clothing. In theory, parents would be able to teach their children Kleenex but some of those kids have never seen it.

There is what should be and then there is what it is.

So, spending my time saying.......you should doesn't quite address problems such as homelessness. I could play smack a parent all day long. Doesn't accomplish anything. There are programs that piss me off and that is no lie.

Thank you for stating your position in a concise and thoughtful way Disir. We seem to agree on the basic responsibilities of parents. I understand what you mean with, "There is what should be and then there is what it is." My approach to that is government shouldn't just step in and provide. It should educate and support the parent into fulfilling their role by themselves over time. This affords an opportunity to end the problem.

There are parents that are never going to get it together. Ever. Some of them are mentally ill. Some of them have very low IQs and some of them are just crap. They aren't ever going to change. Some of them need a best friend for life and as a society we aren't going to be able to afford that.

I think there is a misconception that you can walk in and just educate the parents and there is frustration from all sides when it does not happen. We are going to walk in and we are going to tell you to clean your house and put up this table and to cook these foods and then we are going to smile and walk out the door. You should feel blessed that we chose you. Here have a pamphlet on the importance of reading to your kid, a good nights sleep etc. We are going to tell you how we think you should live.

I think more progress would be made if people stopped trying to fix the problem that they want to fix and paid attention to what the problems are from the perspective of the individuals with the alleged problems.

 

[Jackson]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Yes. Class time for Mr. Tooth (2 hours) on how to brush your teeth! Healthy Bear on eating right; Safe Touch, Bad Touch, sex; Fireman Freddie; Police Officer - crossing the street; Puppets - The Arts; Dance - The Ballet (Arts); Opera - Arts ... This takes time away from Reading, Math and Language Arts... But don't forget the Cookie Drives and Christmas shows....

We take the responsibilities from the parents..can't they teach their children to brush their teeth, to cross the street safely, not to allow anyone to touch their private parts? Come on parents...step up to the plate!

Ya, so you just sit there you kindergartner you and face the front and read Beowulf.

Come on.

Kids do more in school than sit and listen. They are actually learning to read, do math and learning to write, that is if they are not sitting there listening to Mr. Tooth for a couple of hours. Maybe Mom can teach Johnny to brush his teeth when she is free. We are kind of busy at school.

Ya, I know. Teaching to the test is awesome. Never let anything stand in the way of that.

You are really a piece of work, aren't you? Yes, reading and math are on the test, so I am teaching TO THE TEST! It happens to be part of the curriculum. So, you might say they are testing if I am teaching what is on the curriculum. But that doesn't roll with your agenda...does it?

I would love to see you try to fill the shoes of a good teacher and flounder in what would be the most difficult job you would have ever had. That is if you would try to be good at it. Would you try to be good at it? I wonder.

Yes, I am. You have anything besides insults?

Are you a teacher? In the earlier post, SaveLiberty approached you as you would want to help educate the parents rather than do for them. Is that right? Or are you still a proponent of all of the programs of DOING FOR THE PARENTS?

I used to do Workshops for parents in the inner city. It was how to help the children. I would be in favor of educating the parents but not doing FOR THEM. I do buy clothes for the children, mainly socks, shoes and belts and always school supplies. I always had a "store" in the classroom for the students to buy toys with "merits" earned at school for good work, manners trying hard.

 

[saveliberty]

There are parents that are never going to get it together. Ever. Some of them are mentally ill. Some of them have very low IQs and some of them are just crap. They aren't ever going to change. Some of them need a best friend for life and as a society we aren't going to be able to afford that.

I think there is a misconception that you can walk in and just educate the parents and there is frustration from all sides when it does not happen. We are going to walk in and we are going to tell you to clean your house and put up this table and to cook these foods and then we are going to smile and walk out the door. You should feel blessed that we chose you. Here have a pamphlet on the importance of reading to your kid, a good nights sleep etc. We are going to tell you how we think you should live.

I think more progress would be made if people stopped trying to fix the problem that they want to fix and paid attention to what the problems are from the perspective of the individuals with the alleged problems.

If the parent is incapable, a foster parent should take over. The incapable parent sterilized. By the way, when you include a family in one of your programs, you ARE saying the way they live is wrong. Then you take over for them with a program.

 

[Jackson]

Food, housing, electricity, water and clothing. In theory, parents would be able to teach their children Kleenex but some of those kids have never seen it.

There is what should be and then there is what it is.

So, spending my time saying.......you should doesn't quite address problems such as homelessness. I could play smack a parent all day long. Doesn't accomplish anything. There are programs that piss me off and that is no lie.

Thank you for stating your position in a concise and thoughtful way Disir. We seem to agree on the basic responsibilities of parents. I understand what you mean with, "There is what should be and then there is what it is." My approach to that is government shouldn't just step in and provide. It should educate and support the parent into fulfilling their role by themselves over time. This affords an opportunity to end the problem.

There are parents that are never going to get it together. Ever. Some of them are mentally ill. Some of them have very low IQs and some of them are just crap. They aren't ever going to change. Some of them need a best friend for life and as a society we aren't going to be able to afford that.

I think there is a misconception that you can walk in and just educate the parents and there is frustration from all sides when it does not happen. We are going to walk in and we are going to tell you to clean your house and put up this table and to cook these foods and then we are going to smile and walk out the door. You should feel blessed that we chose you. Here have a pamphlet on the importance of reading to your kid, a good nights sleep etc. We are going to tell you how we think you should live.

I think more progress would be made if people stopped trying to fix the problem that they want to fix and paid attention to what the problems are from the perspective of the individuals with the alleged problems.

Okay Disir, I agree with much you say, but you are talking about a small percentage that cannot learn to do for themselves. And for them, we are going to go that extra mile. But we are going that extra mile for all of the parents in the inner city. Do you see what I am saying?

So, how do we meet the needs of all of our parents without enabling the basic "users"? We have those parents who are on welfare, getting food stamps, getting free lunch and coming to school with those expensive tennis shoes and $1 for ice cream bars to go with the free lunch. Those are the users.

Yet, at the same time, the come in for conferences and they are concerned about the children and don't know how to help them at home. We work out plans for incentives for motivating and often it works, but it does take time. You have to 'stroke' the parents and let them know you believe in them. Instead of paying these people to come in to "teach" the kids, I want to teach the parents. Hold meetings with raffles to get them to come and teach them parenting skills.

 

[Synthaholic]

How Does Teacher Tenure and Seniority Help Students?

It doesn't. It helps teachers.

The same way Wall Street bonuses helped market stability after the Bush Financial Crash.

Remember the argument? People were rightly upset that the same people who crashed the economy were still getting their huge bonuses, but the argument was if we don't pay them these bonuses they will leave for European, London, Asian exchanges. We would lose good people! Good people who knew what needed to be done to right the ship!

Remember that? Now just transplant that to teachers.

 

[jasonnfree]

Here's an interesting link to schools in orange county california. You can look at schools rating. If it's 10 or close to 10 rating like Edison High in Huntington Beach, you see house prices are very high, parents education mostly college grads. Demographics favorable, not heavily hispanic or non english speakers. Century High in Santa Ana, rated very low. Look at the statistics. Heavily hispanic, low income, etc. My point is according to some, Century High has lousy teachers that need to be fired. Loara high in Anaheim was a top high school in the 80's. Now it's heavily hispanic, many low income and english learners, it's near the bottom of the list. Again, is it the teachers? I don't think so.

California School Ratings school profiles test scores - Orange County

 

[Rikurzhen]

Experts say that the numbers may even be higher than what you’ll see here, because irregular class attendance and changing addresses mean homeless kids are difficult to track. The National Association for the Education of Homeless Children and Youth says that two trends are responsible for these big numbers: a growing shortage of affordable rental housing and a simultaneous increase in severe poverty in the U.S.

Let's quit importing poor people! Let's deport 20 million illegal infiltrators:

From 1990 to 2007, the entire increase in official poverty was among Hispanics.​