How do you expand the middle class

[Old Rocks]

How do those jobs get created...by government or by entrepreneurs?

Entreprenuers, corporations, small businesses, etc. Not government. Government doesn't create jobs, they buy them with our money.

You mean there were no jobs created in building the Interstate Highway System? NASA created no jobs and no benefits for our nation? No jobs created by the maintenance of our wonderful National Parks?

This meme of the government not creating jobs is the silliest nonsense put out by the "Conservatives". Of course the government creates jobs. When we, through our representatives, decide to achieve a goal, whether a dam backing up a river, or going to the moon, jobs are created, and benefits for this nation span generations.

 

[Erand7899]

How do those jobs get created...by government or by entrepreneurs?

Entreprenuers, corporations, small businesses, etc. Not government. Government doesn't create jobs, they buy them with our money.

You mean there were no jobs created in building the Interstate Highway System? NASA created no jobs and no benefits for our nation? No jobs created by the maintenance of our wonderful National Parks?

This meme of the government not creating jobs is the silliest nonsense put out by the "Conservatives". Of course the government creates jobs. When we, through our representatives, decide to achieve a goal, whether a dam backing up a river, or going to the moon, jobs are created, and benefits for this nation span generations.

Yes, there were jobs created building the Interstate Highway System, Dams, federal buildings, etc., but they were all temporary jobs, and they were a drop in the bucket for jobs needed in the USA. The economic engine of America is the private sector. It is now, it has always been so, and it will always be so.

The best paying jobs in America, excluding sports and the entertainment industry, are provided by large evil corporations. The businesses you left wingers love to hate.

Government can spend Billions, and create a few jobs for a few people. The rest, even the ones paying for those few jobs for others, have to survive and prosper without aid from the government.

 

[Old Rocks]

Entreprenuers, corporations, small businesses, etc. Not government. Government doesn't create jobs, they buy them with our money.

You mean there were no jobs created in building the Interstate Highway System? NASA created no jobs and no benefits for our nation? No jobs created by the maintenance of our wonderful National Parks?

This meme of the government not creating jobs is the silliest nonsense put out by the "Conservatives". Of course the government creates jobs. When we, through our representatives, decide to achieve a goal, whether a dam backing up a river, or going to the moon, jobs are created, and benefits for this nation span generations.

Yes, there were jobs created building the Interstate Highway System, Dams, federal buildings, etc., but they were all temporary jobs, and they were a drop in the bucket for jobs needed in the USA. The economic engine of America is the private sector. It is now, it has always been so, and it will always be so.

The best paying jobs in America, excluding sports and the entertainment industry, are provided by large evil corporations. The businesses you left wingers love to hate.

Government can spend Billions, and create a few jobs for a few people. The rest, even the ones paying for those few jobs for others, have to survive and prosper without aid from the government.

Oh come on. You mean that there are no truckers that use the Interstate System that have not made their living on those roads all their lives? You mean that the present companies that build computers and create software provide no jobs? After all, both got there start as government projects.

As for the rest of us having no aid from the government, where do you live, in Somolia? The food you eat, the water you drink, the air you breathe, all are regulated by the government because private companies proved they would poison you if it made them a profit.

You want no government? Move to another nation.

 

[candycorn]

Growing the middle class;

Stress education; (not college degrees from these on-line colleges but stress education). Stop discounting the importance of getting the education. I think making the GI bill available ot All Americans would go a long way. You get 60 hours (an Associate Degree) eqivalent paid for you up front. Over your earning lifetime, you have some money deducted from your paycheck to pay it back. If you want to use some of the 60 to get a certificate in cosmetology, fine. If you want to use it as a springboard to a 4 year degree, fine. If you want to take auto-body, fine....whatever you want to do you can do; the pay is taken out of your future earnings or via military service.

The Vice President was right when he said what we need are all new industries. The way you uncover those new industries is by stressing education which in turn creates new entrepreneurs. Some asteroids are believed to have tons of precious metals such as platinum. Finding a way to mine these metals is one of these industries.

The payback is with interest of course...I didn't mention that above.

 

[candycorn]

You mean there were no jobs created in building the Interstate Highway System? NASA created no jobs and no benefits for our nation? No jobs created by the maintenance of our wonderful National Parks?

This meme of the government not creating jobs is the silliest nonsense put out by the "Conservatives". Of course the government creates jobs. When we, through our representatives, decide to achieve a goal, whether a dam backing up a river, or going to the moon, jobs are created, and benefits for this nation span generations.

Yes, there were jobs created building the Interstate Highway System, Dams, federal buildings, etc., but they were all temporary jobs, and they were a drop in the bucket for jobs needed in the USA. The economic engine of America is the private sector. It is now, it has always been so, and it will always be so.

The best paying jobs in America, excluding sports and the entertainment industry, are provided by large evil corporations. The businesses you left wingers love to hate.

Government can spend Billions, and create a few jobs for a few people. The rest, even the ones paying for those few jobs for others, have to survive and prosper without aid from the government.

Oh come on. You mean that there are no truckers that use the Interstate System that have not made their living on those roads all their lives? You mean that the present companies that build computers and create software provide no jobs? After all, both got there start as government projects.

As for the rest of us having no aid from the government, where do you live, in Somolia? The food you eat, the water you drink, the air you breathe, all are regulated by the government because private companies proved they would poison you if it made them a profit.

You want no government? Move to another nation.

And gee, who do these people think buys vehicles, computers, internet services, pens, pencils, weapons, ships, tanks planes, health insurance, office furniture, airline tickets, meals while traveling....government and government employees.

If you don't think government contracts are lucrative, you didn't study the bums' rush after Iraq fell when we were offering money to any and all who wanted a piece of it.

The entire "Government doesn't create jobs" mantra is classic conservative superstition. These idiots should know better.

 

[Duped]

Build the pipeline.

At this point we are going to suffer more before we can surmount our impediments; any corrective messures will have short term negative consequences before we will be able to appreciate there prudence.

The debt is an albatross - huge government, unfair trade, decadence, illegals, drug war, money printing, etc - we are in a bad way! It seems that there is a campaign to destroy us with the way things are stacked

Lower taxes, simple tax code, would be the best start; incentive!

 

[The Rabbi]

Government doesn't "create" anything. Government destroys. You want to "build the middle class"?

Turn the capitalists loose.

And stop teaching our children that somehow the "government" is the answer.

That's right. No government and no regs either will build a strong economy. Unleash the capitalists!!!Why, BP could have concentrated on more drilling instead of being told to plug the leak in the Gulf of Mexico by the job killing government.

How much money did BP make by having a well blow out?
How much of a role did the gov't play in stopping the leak?
How much did government regs prevent the leak?

I think we've disposed of your argument.

 

[The Rabbi]

How do those jobs get created...by government or by entrepreneurs?

Entreprenuers, corporations, small businesses, etc. Not government. Government doesn't create jobs, they buy them with our money.

You mean there were no jobs created in building the Interstate Highway System? NASA created no jobs and no benefits for our nation? No jobs created by the maintenance of our wonderful National Parks?

This meme of the government not creating jobs is the silliest nonsense put out by the "Conservatives". Of course the government creates jobs. When we, through our representatives, decide to achieve a goal, whether a dam backing up a river, or going to the moon, jobs are created, and benefits for this nation span generations.

Interstate Highway system is over 50 years old.
NASA over 40 years old
Parks system over 100 years old.


What has government created in the last 30 years? How many jobs are created by welfare payments? By disability payments? All of it needs to be paid for by taxes, i.e. taking money from productive people and giving it to non productive people.
When the brain dead left talks about "gov't creating jobs" they have no idea what they're talking about. Gov't doesnt create anything. It takes from some people and gives to others.

 

[zeke]

So repugs are now interested in increasing the middle class.

Again, an easy one.

What is the current income guideline for a family of three who could be said to live in poverty. Something like 19000 dollars.

All the repubs have to do is claim that any person making at least 19000 dollars a year and up is now in the middle class.

Talk about "expanding" the middle. That'll do it.

 

[deltex1]

Government doesn't "create" anything. Government destroys. You want to "build the middle class"?

Turn the capitalists loose.

And stop teaching our children that somehow the "government" is the answer.

That's right. No government and no regs either will build a strong economy. Unleash the capitalists!!!Why, BP could have concentrated on more drilling instead of being told to plug the leak in the Gulf of Mexico by the job killing government.

Government didn't plug the leak..but they sure killed gulf coast jobs.

 

[LeftofLeft]

1. Raise minimum wages to what it would be if indexed to inflation. Then make future min income increases automatic to inflation, in order to take the power away from any greed-based GOP dominated government to undo it or stop it.

2. Limit imports, weaken "free trade" agreements, use anti-dumping laws as an end-around on the trade agreements that sadly do exist. If it's worth selling here, it's worth making here, end of debate.

3. Increase union power. Mandate union membership for all companies with 50 employees or above.

4. Increase income taxes. We need more rates and higher rates, up to 50% of income on anything over 3 million/year. And scrap the needless "capital gains" rate too. The people who "earn" capital gains spend it the same way they spend income, so it should be taxed the same way too. The new government revenue from this positive change should be spent on shoring up social spending programs, especially in poor, black neighborhoods. This will also help bring down the crime rates that white conservatives are supposedly so worried about.

The global market will not permit this to happen. Because we are in a more globally competitive climate, here is what needs to happen IF you want the middle class to expand:

Policies need to be pursued that provides fertile ground for entrepreneurs to build and expand small business. This will drive an already high unemployment rate down. Regarding wages, if there is competition for workers, wages will go up. Unions have a positive role to play here as well without mandates. For example, they could be the focal point for training and ongoing education for skills sets in conjunction with corporate, government and academia. Regarding taxes, you need policies that will result in net increases into the treasury so that you can afford spending. These policies should be incentive based, not mandates or punitive penalties. With incentives, you can attract companies to poor urban and rural areas alike to alleviate economic plight regardless of race.

 

[editec]

How to increase the middle class?

Easy..you know all those trade laws, tax laws, collective bargaining laws, and rulings the SCOTUS made about corporate rights in the last 50 years or so?

REPEAL THEM ALL.

The middle class will come back over time.

It will never come back to the state of affairs of the last 60s (the rest of the world has moved on) but it will be much healthier than it is now.

 

[The Rabbi]

How to increase the middle class?

Easy..you know all those trade laws, tax laws, collective bargaining laws, and rulings the SCOTUS made about corporate rights in the last 50 years or so?

REPEAL THEM ALL.

The middle class will come back over time.

It will never come back to the state of affairs of the last 60s (the rest of the world has moved on) but it will be much healthier than it is now.

The Supreme Court doesn't make laws.
Fail.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Growing the middle class;

Stress education; (not college degrees from these on-line colleges but stress education). Stop discounting the importance of getting the education. I think making the GI bill available ot All Americans would go a long way. You get 60 hours (an Associate Degree) eqivalent paid for you up front. Over your earning lifetime, you have some money deducted from your paycheck to pay it back. If you want to use some of the 60 to get a certificate in cosmetology, fine. If you want to use it as a springboard to a 4 year degree, fine. If you want to take auto-body, fine....whatever you want to do you can do; the pay is taken out of your future earnings or via military service.

The Vice President was right when he said what we need are all new industries. The way you uncover those new industries is by stressing education which in turn creates new entrepreneurs. Some asteroids are believed to have tons of precious metals such as platinum. Finding a way to mine these metals is one of these industries.

actually agree with you about stressing education.....the only way we will create new jobs is through innovation.....and that starts with smart people...

however i do NOT like the idea of the government running the education business for many reasons.....one basic reason is that every time the government sticks its nose into something the costs soar....(look at healthcare).....

Not true in most cases. Private colleges are much more expensive than public schools.

today college kids are paying through the nose and they start their lives deep in debt looking for non-existent jobs...this is not acceptable...student loan debt has actually surpassed credit card debt.....the government is creating another debt bubble...

Not true either--the part about the government creating it.

What you do have is a 1910 model being used in 2013 and, gee whiz, it's not working. A 4 year degree...what is that...a degree that someone decided you can get in 4 years. Right?

What if you did this; you worked part time, took 1/2 as many classes and paid as you go? When you graduate in 8 years you have no debt or smaller debt anyway. Thanks to Obamacare allowing students to stay on their parent's insurance through the age of 26, you needn't start your career at 22.

college costs have been increasing twice the rate of inflation....avg college cost should be only about 20k today instead of 60k....

Three ways to lower the costs of higher education - Ron Hart - The News Herald

That part is true--college costs are rising and the government subsidizing student loans does play a part. If you took away the loans, you'd see costs plummet because colleges wouldn't have any students to teach and thusly no income.

It's sort of the devil's bargain whereby the government drops the cost by removing itself from the equation and meanwhile, American competitiveness suffers, middle class elevation suffers, etc...

Pre-paying for students to go through 60 hours of college is a great idea--it isn't mine unfortunately; what we should do, however, is focus on education and not just certifications and degrees; certainly not within an artificially pre-set time limit.

private colleges cost more because the government isn't subsidizing them like the others....yet they typically offer the students smaller size classes and more participation and higher quality education....private colleges also typically have more money to help qualified students financially....

public schools have become big business with government backing.....the more government subsidizes.....the more colleges spend....and the more it costs....and the burden of paying for it is foisted onto the students in the form of ever-increasing loans...and higher future taxes...

college loans for students should go back into the private market where they are serious business and not handed out like candy to teenagers....scholarships should become the primary government method of helping out.....not easy loans to any pie-in-the-sky 18yo who can legally sign a paper but doesn't have a clue....scholarships would also help to stress the importance of actual study.....too many kids think college is just Party Central......(actually it is 'Party Central' but not in the same way they think it is...another reason to get government out of the business as much as possible...)

 

[Erand7899]

You mean there were no jobs created in building the Interstate Highway System? NASA created no jobs and no benefits for our nation? No jobs created by the maintenance of our wonderful National Parks?

This meme of the government not creating jobs is the silliest nonsense put out by the "Conservatives". Of course the government creates jobs. When we, through our representatives, decide to achieve a goal, whether a dam backing up a river, or going to the moon, jobs are created, and benefits for this nation span generations.

Yes, there were jobs created building the Interstate Highway System, Dams, federal buildings, etc., but they were all temporary jobs, and they were a drop in the bucket for jobs needed in the USA. The economic engine of America is the private sector. It is now, it has always been so, and it will always be so.

The best paying jobs in America, excluding sports and the entertainment industry, are provided by large evil corporations. The businesses you left wingers love to hate.

Government can spend Billions, and create a few jobs for a few people. The rest, even the ones paying for those few jobs for others, have to survive and prosper without aid from the government.

Oh come on. You mean that there are no truckers that use the Interstate System that have not made their living on those roads all their lives? You mean that the present companies that build computers and create software provide no jobs? After all, both got there start as government projects.

As for the rest of us having no aid from the government, where do you live, in Somolia? The food you eat, the water you drink, the air you breathe, all are regulated by the government because private companies proved they would poison you if it made them a profit.

You want no government? Move to another nation.

Those truckers were using the roads before the interstate system was ever dreamed of, and would be using the roads if the federal interstate system did not exist. The USA became the arsenal of democracy that fed and equiped the allied armies, and managed to do it without an interstate highway system. Imagine that!

Americans were drinking water, breathing air, and eating food, before any government regulations existed. How in the hell did they manage that without the paternal hand of government patting their little heads?

However, like any good little liberal stooge, you changed the subject from government providing jobs, to another false premise on the absolute need of government in every aspect of our lives. The concept of the ever shifting debate protects liberals from having to confront the obvious contradictions in their dumbass beliefs.

 

[candycorn]

actually agree with you about stressing education.....the only way we will create new jobs is through innovation.....and that starts with smart people...

however i do NOT like the idea of the government running the education business for many reasons.....one basic reason is that every time the government sticks its nose into something the costs soar....(look at healthcare).....

Not true in most cases. Private colleges are much more expensive than public schools.


Not true either--the part about the government creating it.

What you do have is a 1910 model being used in 2013 and, gee whiz, it's not working. A 4 year degree...what is that...a degree that someone decided you can get in 4 years. Right?

What if you did this; you worked part time, took 1/2 as many classes and paid as you go? When you graduate in 8 years you have no debt or smaller debt anyway. Thanks to Obamacare allowing students to stay on their parent's insurance through the age of 26, you needn't start your career at 22.

college costs have been increasing twice the rate of inflation....avg college cost should be only about 20k today instead of 60k....

Three ways to lower the costs of higher education - Ron Hart - The News Herald

That part is true--college costs are rising and the government subsidizing student loans does play a part. If you took away the loans, you'd see costs plummet because colleges wouldn't have any students to teach and thusly no income.

It's sort of the devil's bargain whereby the government drops the cost by removing itself from the equation and meanwhile, American competitiveness suffers, middle class elevation suffers, etc...

Pre-paying for students to go through 60 hours of college is a great idea--it isn't mine unfortunately; what we should do, however, is focus on education and not just certifications and degrees; certainly not within an artificially pre-set time limit.

private colleges cost more because the government isn't subsidizing them like the others....yet they typically offer the students smaller size classes and more participation and higher quality education....private colleges also typically have more money to help qualified students financially....

The difference between the average is nominal. But, without question, the best colleges are the private colleges.

If you see Harvard on the diploma it means much more than Florida State. However if you see Brigham Young, few think it means much more than Florida State.

public schools have become big business with government backing.....the more government subsidizes.....the more colleges spend....and the more it costs....and the burden of paying for it is foisted onto the students in the form of ever-increasing loans...and higher future taxes...

Again, this is why it's so important to find creative ways to pay for the enterprise for the middle class;

*Expanding the "4 year degree" to a easier to swallow 6-8 year model for example
*The idea that mimics Social Security where you pay through out your work career for the reward at the end is turned on it's head as to where you get the money up front and then pay for it through out your work career with the option to pay it off directly,


I happen to think that the state supported schools should be barred from having athletics or at the very least that coaches and coaching staffs and facilities have standardized contracts just like where the Dean of the Music department has a slot for their contract versus the music professors, etc...

college loans for students should go back into the private market where they are serious business and not handed out like candy to teenagers....scholarships should become the primary government method of helping out.....

Are you talking about grants from the Government? I agree with the stipulation that the recepient go to State schools.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Again, this is why it's so important to find creative ways to pay for the enterprise for the middle class;

*Expanding the "4 year degree" to a easier to swallow 6-8 year model for example
*The idea that mimics Social Security where you pay through out your work career for the reward at the end is turned on it's head as to where you get the money up front and then pay for it through out your work career with the option to pay it off directly,

i'm not really following you here....it sounds like you want people to wind up as financial slaves to the government for their education....(which is essentially happening already)

 

[The Rabbi]

Not true in most cases. Private colleges are much more expensive than public schools.


Not true either--the part about the government creating it.

What you do have is a 1910 model being used in 2013 and, gee whiz, it's not working. A 4 year degree...what is that...a degree that someone decided you can get in 4 years. Right?

What if you did this; you worked part time, took 1/2 as many classes and paid as you go? When you graduate in 8 years you have no debt or smaller debt anyway. Thanks to Obamacare allowing students to stay on their parent's insurance through the age of 26, you needn't start your career at 22.



That part is true--college costs are rising and the government subsidizing student loans does play a part. If you took away the loans, you'd see costs plummet because colleges wouldn't have any students to teach and thusly no income.

It's sort of the devil's bargain whereby the government drops the cost by removing itself from the equation and meanwhile, American competitiveness suffers, middle class elevation suffers, etc...

Pre-paying for students to go through 60 hours of college is a great idea--it isn't mine unfortunately; what we should do, however, is focus on education and not just certifications and degrees; certainly not within an artificially pre-set time limit.

private colleges cost more because the government isn't subsidizing them like the others....yet they typically offer the students smaller size classes and more participation and higher quality education....private colleges also typically have more money to help qualified students financially....

The difference between the average is nominal. But, without question, the best colleges are the private colleges.

If you see Harvard on the diploma it means much more than Florida State. However if you see Brigham Young, few think it means much more than Florida State.

public schools have become big business with government backing.....the more government subsidizes.....the more colleges spend....and the more it costs....and the burden of paying for it is foisted onto the students in the form of ever-increasing loans...and higher future taxes...

Again, this is why it's so important to find creative ways to pay for the enterprise for the middle class;

*Expanding the "4 year degree" to a easier to swallow 6-8 year model for example
*The idea that mimics Social Security where you pay through out your work career for the reward at the end is turned on it's head as to where you get the money up front and then pay for it through out your work career with the option to pay it off directly,


I happen to think that the state supported schools should be barred from having athletics or at the very least that coaches and coaching staffs and facilities have standardized contracts just like where the Dean of the Music department has a slot for their contract versus the music professors, etc...

college loans for students should go back into the private market where they are serious business and not handed out like candy to teenagers....scholarships should become the primary government method of helping out.....

Are you talking about grants from the Government? I agree with the stipulation that the recepient go to State schools.

People get out after 4 or 5 years of college and they are not employable. Why would expanding that time to 8 years of drinking beer and chasing girls make it any better?
Schools make lots of money off college football (and other sports). Why would you want to prevent that?

The issue is that colleges have sold a bill of goods, that a degree is the ticket to a good job. Maybe when I was in school in the early 1980s that was still true. It sure isnt anymore. Kids come out with degrees in "Gay gender studies" and other fluff. They have learned nothing worthwhile and spent a bunch of money doing it.
That is not to say every college grad is like that. The pre meds, pre laws, and engineering students have learned actual skills necessary for their careers. The others, not so much.

 

[francoHFW]

A lot of college cost rises under BOOSH, less gov't aid to public schools, changes to law to make Pub crony online scam U's that preyed on Vets!! 1/2 of bad loans! Great job lol

 

[Stephanie]

Ask Obama, he is working on that...

First you drive the remaining middle class into the poorhouse, that way everyone is EQUALLY poor...then you crow how you transformed this country to be more FAIR...and label all of us now poor, the middle class

sounds like a plan stan