How about that Green Economy?

[Two Thumbs]

I think we should start burning our food for fuel. Oh wait! We're already doing that.

We also turn in into alcholic beverages.

Beer lead to the creation of civilization.

It was also "proof" to Ben Franklin of gods love to humanity.

 

[mdn2000]

And it's already known by economists that 2.2 jobs are being lost for every 1 green job created.

Really, which economist? Provide the source AND the evidence.

How about a Spanish economics professor's findings?

George F. Will - A Quixotic Pursuit: Green Energy Jobs - washingtonpost.com

The Spanish professor is puzzled. Why, Gabriel Calzada wonders, is the U.S. president recommending that America emulate the Spanish model for creating "green jobs" in "alternative energy" even though Spain's unemployment rate is 18.1 percent -- more than double the European Union average -- partly because of spending on such jobs?

Calzada, 36, an economics professor at Universidad Rey Juan Carlos, has produced a report that, if true, is inconvenient for the Obama administration's green agenda, and for some budget assumptions that are dependent upon it.

Calzada says Spain's torrential spending -- no other nation has so aggressively supported production of electricity from renewable sources -- on wind farms and other forms of alternative energy has indeed created jobs. But Calzada's report concludes that they often are temporary and have received $752,000 to $800,000 each in subsidies -- wind industry jobs cost even more, $1.4 million each. And each new job entails the loss of 2.2 other jobs that are either lost or not created in other industries because of the political allocation -- sub-optimum in terms of economic efficiency -- of capital. (European media regularly report "eco-corruption" leaving a "footprint of sleaze" -- gaming the subsidy systems, profiteering from land sales for wind farms, etc.) Calzada says the creation of jobs in alternative energy has subtracted about 110,000 jobs elsewhere in Spain's economy.

This to me is common sense, what employes more people, a Nuclear energy power plant or a Wind Farm. A Nuke plant.

Which can supply energy to industry, a Nuclear Power plant does supply energy to industry a Wind Farm is to weak to supply energy to industry.

One can supply energy to Jobs, the other, Wind cannot supply energy to jobs.

If one notices, Wind is sold to homes, or marketed to homes, its always, "this wind farm can supply 100 homes with energy".

You never here this wind farm supplies industry with energy as well as providing enough electricity to power Portland with its electrical needs.

If your source of energy can not support any industry are you creating jobs or destroying jobs.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Madrid estimates 70 percent of the two million jobs which were lost in Spain since the start of the economic downturn were directly or indirectly related to the construction sector.

Last year the government introduced a hotly contested labour market reform that cut the country's high cost of firing workers and gave companies more flexibility to reduce working hours and staff levels in economic downturns -- changes that he argued would boost job creation.

And it's already known by economists that 2.2 jobs are being lost for every 1 green job created.

I've heard that before, is there a link to something that proves this?

never mind, I just saw Skulls excelent link.

 

[Sallow]

Spain is basically suffering from the same problem the rest of the world is having...a housing bubble that burst. That..and a financial sector which sold them derivatives based on unbelievably complicated algorithms. It's not surprising to watch conservatives gleefully cheer on the destruction they wrought in the financial sector while assigning blame to just about everything except what really happened. Where are Conservatives on Ireland? That was once the "rah-rah" low tax, low regulation European example of Conservative economic fantasies made real? The same exact thing happened to them. And their government had to bail out banks. The only place one could point to as being extremely irresponsible with their economy is Greece. And they took out loans to upgrade their military.

Go fig.

 

[mdn2000]

Spain is basically suffering from the same problem the rest of the world is having...a housing bubble that burst. That..and a financial sector which sold them derivatives based on unbelievably complicated algorithms. It's not surprising to watch conservatives gleefully cheer on the destruction they wrought in the financial sector while assigning blame to just about everything except what really happened. Where are Conservatives on Ireland? That was once the "rah-rah" low tax, low regulation European example of Conservative economic fantasies made real? The same exact thing happened to them. And their government had to bail out banks. The only place one could point to as being extremely irresponsible with their economy is Greece. And they took out loans to upgrade their military.

Go fig.

excuse me, it was not conservatives, it was politicians, from both sides, although I am not familiar with which Republicans, can you give there names and tell us what they did exactly.

It is true that the gay democrat liberal Barney Franks was responsible, The Gay Democrat Barney Frank was literally getting screwed by a top executive at Fannie Mae (fannie, too funny), receiving campaign contributions at the same time stating that Fannie Mae was solvent.

Your assertion that Spain's crisis was caused by housing has no basis, the US housing market is so large it brings down the entire world, that portion of our economy is that large. I say bullshit, pure bullshit.

The only thing hurting Spain is Spain, a bad policy, of course if you talk to someone from Spain they state the problem was inflation brought on by changing the currency to the Euro. They state the price of housing within Spain doubled. They also state they have extremely high immigration, the highest in Europe, being the cheapest country in Europe.

Housing, the scapegoat of politicians who are corrupt.

 

[mdn2000]

You almost gotta laugh about how close the radical greenies came to overthrowing the American government. Obama thought it was a done deal when he appointed a communist who once led a looting and arson rampage to be on the "green jobs board". The day Obama appointed Van Jones was probably the day the American people finally realized what happened to their Country. Obama was forced to fire Jones and the democrat majority in congress was handed the most stunning defeat in a century. The mainstream media still doesn't get it though and they will support Obama even if they go broke doing it.

Laugh, they did get away with it, Cap and Trade and CO2 restrictions are being implemented across the Country. They by-passed the Senate.

The American people are clueless about what happened and is happening, nothing has changed, Obama is a 100% success. Everything Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Gore, and Clinton wanted, they have. I should ad Bush, Bush has done nothing to help, silence in the face of tyranny is direct support of tyranny.

Bush is supposedly an Oil man, where is the outrage or critisism. I guess Bush does live in a glass house.

Is there a link to this by pass of the Congress??

Also I was reading that T. Boone Pickens had given up on his wind energy. He spent 2 billion of his own money to find out that it just isn't feasable.

This is not the information I planned on posting in response but it was a headline today so it grabbed my attention. I will post more, this is just a start.

Senators vow to strip Obama climate power

Conservative senators vowed Monday to strip President Barack Obama of his power to regulate greenhouse gases, in a move that would cripple US efforts on climate change if successful.
Eleven Republican senators introduced a bill that would stop the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gases, which scientists blame for global warming, without explicit approval by Congress.

Under Obama, the federal agency has steadily increased standards on gas emissions. The Republicans accused Obama of circumventing Congress, where a so-called "cap-and-trade" bill to mandate emission curbs died last year.

 

[Sallow]

Spain is basically suffering from the same problem the rest of the world is having...a housing bubble that burst. That..and a financial sector which sold them derivatives based on unbelievably complicated algorithms. It's not surprising to watch conservatives gleefully cheer on the destruction they wrought in the financial sector while assigning blame to just about everything except what really happened. Where are Conservatives on Ireland? That was once the "rah-rah" low tax, low regulation European example of Conservative economic fantasies made real? The same exact thing happened to them. And their government had to bail out banks. The only place one could point to as being extremely irresponsible with their economy is Greece. And they took out loans to upgrade their military.

Go fig.

excuse me, it was not conservatives, it was politicians, from both sides, although I am not familiar with which Republicans, can you give there names and tell us what they did exactly.

It is true that the gay democrat liberal Barney Franks was responsible, The Gay Democrat Barney Frank was literally getting screwed by a top executive at Fannie Mae (fannie, too funny), receiving campaign contributions at the same time stating that Fannie Mae was solvent.

Your assertion that Spain's crisis was caused by housing has no basis, the US housing market is so large it brings down the entire world, that portion of our economy is that large. I say bullshit, pure bullshit.

The only thing hurting Spain is Spain, a bad policy, of course if you talk to someone from Spain they state the problem was inflation brought on by changing the currency to the Euro. They state the price of housing within Spain doubled. They also state they have extremely high immigration, the highest in Europe, being the cheapest country in Europe.

Housing, the scapegoat of politicians who are corrupt.

Not familiar with Republicans? And then go on to put the blame on "Gay Liberal Democrat Barney Frank"?

Spain had it's own housing bubble. But it also bought US derivatives. Where exactly were you for the last decade or so?

International Banks were using the US model for filching cash from rubes for sometime now. And it was Republicans that enabled that behavior through de-regulation and starving regulators of cash.

Bernie Madoff didn't happen in a vacuum. He was enabled by the same guy, George W. Bush, the "forgot" he broke the law by selling Harken stocks and not reporting it..and SEC who basically said, "Nothing to see here, folks". And if you think Madoff was the only one, there are some bridge deals in Brooklyn I would like to interest you in..

 

[signelect]

I still can't believe that the man who invented the internet started this mess. Green does not do any good and it doesn't create jobs because it puts more people out of work than it creates, result is a net loss.

We do not have a population induced warming cycle, we have a naturally occurring cycle. A couple of years ago the Himalayas ice cap was melting, Monday they said it was growing. Make up your mind. A free market society is always best. The market will make what people will buy.

 

[boedicca]

I think we should start burning our food for fuel. Oh wait! We're already doing that.

And let's outlaw the light bulbs that are made in the U.S. so we can buy poisonous ones from China!

 

[boedicca]

Madrid estimates 70 percent of the two million jobs which were lost in Spain since the start of the economic downturn were directly or indirectly related to the construction sector.

Last year the government introduced a hotly contested labour market reform that cut the country's high cost of firing workers and gave companies more flexibility to reduce working hours and staff levels in economic downturns -- changes that he argued would boost job creation.

And it's already known by economists that 2.2 jobs are being lost for every 1 green job created.

Really, which economist? Provide the source AND the evidence.

A 2004 study by the Renewable and Appropriate Energy Laboratory (RAEL) at UC Berkeley reported that the renewable energy sector generates more jobs than the fossil fuel-based energy sector per unit of energy delivered (i.e., per average megawatt) across a broad range of scenarios.[1] Contrarily, a report analyzing the impact of an eleven year Green energy project in Spain concluded that the U.S. should expect a loss of at least 2.2 jobs on average for each "green job" created, or about 9 jobs lost for every 4 created, in addition to those jobs that non-subsidized investments with the same resources would have created.[2]


Check the pdf at footnote 2:

Green job - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sallow]

I still can't believe that the man who invented the internet started this mess. Green does not do any good and it doesn't create jobs because it puts more people out of work than it creates, result is a net loss.

We do not have a population induced warming cycle, we have a naturally occurring cycle. A couple of years ago the Himalayas ice cap was melting, Monday they said it was growing. Make up your mind. A free market society is always best. The market will make what people will buy.

What the fuck does Vint Cerf have anything to do with this?

 

[boedicca]

Not familiar with Republicans? And then go on to put the blame on "Gay Liberal Democrat Barney Frank"?

Spain had it's own housing bubble. But it also bought US derivatives. Where exactly were you for the last decade or so?

International Banks were using the US model for filching cash from rubes for sometime now. And it was Republicans that enabled that behavior through de-regulation and starving regulators of cash.

Bernie Madoff didn't happen in a vacuum. He was enabled by the same guy, George W. Bush, the "forgot" he broke the law by selling Harken stocks and not reporting it..and SEC who basically said, "Nothing to see here, folks". And if you think Madoff was the only one, there are some bridge deals in Brooklyn I would like to interest you in..

Please provide a link with empirical data that Spain was invested in U.S. mortgage derivatives to the point at which it damaged its economy, and that it had a subprime crisis with a Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac taxpayer backstop.

 

[editec]

What I do is part of the GREEN economy.

The GREEN economy is not only finding renewable sources of energy, but also finding new ways to produce goods and services that use less energy.


Now its easy to complain about having to prime the pump on green economy, but given that we've priming the pump for every type of energy we have anyway, bitching about what it takes to get huge systems like these going indicates either that you are simply a hot headed partisan idiot or just ignorant about the true nature (and very real public costs associated with) the current energy systems we have in place.

 

[boedicca]

What I do is part of the GREEN economy.

The GREEN economy is not only finding renewable sources of energy, but also finding new ways to produce goods and services that use less energy.


Now its easy to complain about having to prime the pump on green economy, but given that we've priming the pump for every type of energy we have anyway, bitching about what it takes to get huge systems like these going indicates either that you are simply a hot headed ignoramous or entirely ignorant about the true nature (and costs) of the current system we have in place.

If the Green Economy were a viable economy, there would not be any need for the government to funnel taxpayer dollars into getting the "huge systems" like these going.

The real huge system getting going is Bigger Government intrusion in our private lives.

 

[Sallow]

Not familiar with Republicans? And then go on to put the blame on "Gay Liberal Democrat Barney Frank"?

Spain had it's own housing bubble. But it also bought US derivatives. Where exactly were you for the last decade or so?

International Banks were using the US model for filching cash from rubes for sometime now. And it was Republicans that enabled that behavior through de-regulation and starving regulators of cash.

Bernie Madoff didn't happen in a vacuum. He was enabled by the same guy, George W. Bush, the "forgot" he broke the law by selling Harken stocks and not reporting it..and SEC who basically said, "Nothing to see here, folks". And if you think Madoff was the only one, there are some bridge deals in Brooklyn I would like to interest you in..

Please provide a link with empirical data that Spain was invested in U.S. mortgage derivatives to the point at which it damaged its economy, and that it had a subprime crisis with a Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac taxpayer backstop.

Oh..playing the link game are we?

There's no need to link crap. If you know how the economy works..then you know how interconnected the world is..

Pointing to "Green Jobs" as the reason for the meltdown is ridiculous. It has absolutely no basis in reality.

We have a 13 Trillion dollar economy. Private business now sits on oceans of cash after "the meltdown". It has to be one of the biggest fleecing of the world on record. And there are people actually piddling away on "Green jobs"??

Outside of stanch conservative lunatics..no one is going to seriously buy that drivel.

 

[boedicca]

Not familiar with Republicans? And then go on to put the blame on "Gay Liberal Democrat Barney Frank"?

Spain had it's own housing bubble. But it also bought US derivatives. Where exactly were you for the last decade or so?

International Banks were using the US model for filching cash from rubes for sometime now. And it was Republicans that enabled that behavior through de-regulation and starving regulators of cash.

Bernie Madoff didn't happen in a vacuum. He was enabled by the same guy, George W. Bush, the "forgot" he broke the law by selling Harken stocks and not reporting it..and SEC who basically said, "Nothing to see here, folks". And if you think Madoff was the only one, there are some bridge deals in Brooklyn I would like to interest you in..

Please provide a link with empirical data that Spain was invested in U.S. mortgage derivatives to the point at which it damaged its economy, and that it had a subprime crisis with a Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac taxpayer backstop.

Oh..playing the link game are we?

There's no need to link crap. If you know how the economy works..then you know how interconnected the world is..

Pointing to "Green Jobs" as the reason for the meltdown is ridiculous. It has absolutely no basis in reality.

We have a 13 Trillion dollar economy. Private business now sits on oceans of cash after "the meltdown". It has to be one of the biggest fleecing of the world on record. And there are people actually piddling away on "Green jobs"??

Outside of stanch conservative lunatics..no one is going to seriously buy that drivel.

I see. You are just projecting your own Hope & Change Fantasy without reliance on any facts.

Typical.

 

[Sallow]

Please provide a link with empirical data that Spain was invested in U.S. mortgage derivatives to the point at which it damaged its economy, and that it had a subprime crisis with a Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac taxpayer backstop.

Oh..playing the link game are we?

There's no need to link crap. If you know how the economy works..then you know how interconnected the world is..

Pointing to "Green Jobs" as the reason for the meltdown is ridiculous. It has absolutely no basis in reality.

We have a 13 Trillion dollar economy. Private business now sits on oceans of cash after "the meltdown". It has to be one of the biggest fleecing of the world on record. And there are people actually piddling away on "Green jobs"??

Outside of stanch conservative lunatics..no one is going to seriously buy that drivel.

I see. You are just projecting your own Hope & Change Fantasy without reliance on any facts.

Typical.

Physician..heal thyself.

No world economy puts all that much into "Green" energy. It's all "proof of concept" now.

It's laughable that anyone who proports to have some measure of knowledge into the world of finance buys this nonsense.

 

[boedicca]

Oh..playing the link game are we?

There's no need to link crap. If you know how the economy works..then you know how interconnected the world is..

Pointing to "Green Jobs" as the reason for the meltdown is ridiculous. It has absolutely no basis in reality.

We have a 13 Trillion dollar economy. Private business now sits on oceans of cash after "the meltdown". It has to be one of the biggest fleecing of the world on record. And there are people actually piddling away on "Green jobs"??

Outside of stanch conservative lunatics..no one is going to seriously buy that drivel.

I see. You are just projecting your own Hope & Change Fantasy without reliance on any facts.

Typical.

Physician..heal thyself.

No world economy puts all that much into "Green" energy. It's all "proof of concept" now.

It's laughable that anyone who proports to have some measure of knowledge into the world of finance buys this nonsense.

I see that you still can't provide proof to support your claims, hence the deflection.

It's the one thing that's truly transparent about you sad sack lefties.

 

[Two Thumbs]

What I do is part of the GREEN economy.

The GREEN economy is not only finding renewable sources of energy, but also finding new ways to produce goods and services that use less energy.


Now its easy to complain about having to prime the pump on green economy, but given that we've priming the pump for every type of energy we have anyway, bitching about what it takes to get huge systems like these going indicates either that you are simply a hot headed partisan idiot or just ignorant about the true nature (and very real public costs associated with) the current energy systems we have in place.

So as long as you are making money to hell with the people that can't get jobs b/c of that?

Have you read the links where it proves for everyone you hire, 2.2 go w/o a job?

 

[mdn2000]

Spain is basically suffering from the same problem the rest of the world is having...a housing bubble that burst. That..and a financial sector which sold them derivatives based on unbelievably complicated algorithms. It's not surprising to watch conservatives gleefully cheer on the destruction they wrought in the financial sector while assigning blame to just about everything except what really happened. Where are Conservatives on Ireland? That was once the "rah-rah" low tax, low regulation European example of Conservative economic fantasies made real? The same exact thing happened to them. And their government had to bail out banks. The only place one could point to as being extremely irresponsible with their economy is Greece. And they took out loans to upgrade their military.

Go fig.

excuse me, it was not conservatives, it was politicians, from both sides, although I am not familiar with which Republicans, can you give there names and tell us what they did exactly.

It is true that the gay democrat liberal Barney Franks was responsible, The Gay Democrat Barney Frank was literally getting screwed by a top executive at Fannie Mae (fannie, too funny), receiving campaign contributions at the same time stating that Fannie Mae was solvent.

Your assertion that Spain's crisis was caused by housing has no basis, the US housing market is so large it brings down the entire world, that portion of our economy is that large. I say bullshit, pure bullshit.

The only thing hurting Spain is Spain, a bad policy, of course if you talk to someone from Spain they state the problem was inflation brought on by changing the currency to the Euro. They state the price of housing within Spain doubled. They also state they have extremely high immigration, the highest in Europe, being the cheapest country in Europe.

Housing, the scapegoat of politicians who are corrupt.

Not familiar with Republicans? And then go on to put the blame on "Gay Liberal Democrat Barney Frank"?

Spain had it's own housing bubble. But it also bought US derivatives. Where exactly were you for the last decade or so?

International Banks were using the US model for filching cash from rubes for sometime now. And it was Republicans that enabled that behavior through de-regulation and starving regulators of cash.

Bernie Madoff didn't happen in a vacuum. He was enabled by the same guy, George W. Bush, the "forgot" he broke the law by selling Harken stocks and not reporting it..and SEC who basically said, "Nothing to see here, folks". And if you think Madoff was the only one, there are some bridge deals in Brooklyn I would like to interest you in..

I did not blame Barney Frank, the Gay Democrat Senator, I stated a simple fact which is nothing more than fact. As far as me refering to the Senator as Gay, that is how Barney Frank wishes to be identified, we Conservatives did not snoop around in the Senator's bedroom to find information to smear a Gay Democrat Senator, in this case, Barney Frank identifies himself as Gay. That is the nature of of politics, to have an issue to get on top of your opponent.

I just used Bing to search for Barney Frank Fannie Mae, the first result not a video, hence the third result down identifies Barney Frank as Gay. Am I too ignore politics or when the Democrats identify themselves as Gay for political reasons and us, as the oppositon take note of what Democrats say, is that simply a tactic of Democrats, call yourself Gay across every form of media and if anyone takes note and repeats what your PAYING TO BE HEARD, the Democrat tactic is to point out the Conservative is somehow a bigot, a homophobe, a racist, that I am denying your civil rights.

This is the result on Bing to my search Barney Frank Fannie Mae.

Barney Frank - Conservapedia

Congressman Barney Frank is a multi-term liberal Democrat Representative from Massachusetts, representing districts in Boston. He is one of the few openly homosexual members of Congress and he only revealed his homosexual proclivities several years after he had been elected to the position. Frank is the Chairman of the Financial Services Committee.

Excuse me, I was just interupted, a man speaking Portugese and seeming Gay, I kid you not just walked by my gate that seperates me from them, he said something, I replied, in poor Portugese, "eu nao say" (I don't know, say I spelt wrong, I used my bastardized phonetic spelling). I am in Rio De Janiero, so I gave a response to a question where the answer was yes or no, he was asking for money for food, this man did seem gay, and I am sure he took a second look and stopped because I am a attactive middle aged conservative far right wing heterosexual (a gay mans dream according to a book by Boy George I happened to only read as I browsed a few pages in Borders book store, honest). So the Gay guy asked if I spoke French, I had to have him repeat the question twice, when I do not know what someone will say it makes it hard to hear as english is my language and I am poor at Portugese. So on telling the flaming beggar in Brazil that I speak English his eyes opened up and all most twinkled, he then asked me for money for food, making a motion with his hand by his mouth, I really hoped meant he was asking for money. So I came inside, got two Real (not Dollars, Real) and gave it to the flaming gay beggar of Rio.

I could say that was a sign from God, pretty scary as I address a Gay Senator a flaming Gay Homeless person asks for food and me as the Conservative from the USA that gave Brazil Vargas (who shot himself in the skull after he failed) find myself feeding the legacy of non-interference by the USA.

Sallow, the USA is the best country in the World for the World. We do more good in one single day than all other countries put together in all of history.

We feed the world, give the world jobs, we export or technology and our lives. We have found refugee in one place, the USA, and we now stand accused of creating the Tyrants who forced us to flee.

I see the Liberals as standing on the side of Tyranny, I see it no other way.

The USA wrecked the poor world, that is pure bullshit, did we destroy Mexico's economy or is it that those who choose to speak Spanish put themselves at a distinct disadvantage. Canada is good example, they do not speak French, they speak English, hence they have the advantage of learning in English and trading in English with the richest nation in the world.

Sallow, the USA has problems and is not perfect, I got side tracked addressing Barney Frank, the financial crisis has as much to do with Energy as does Housing, more so with Energy the further you move away from the USA as in Foreign markets.

Sallow, you do not find it just a bit odd that the USA's housing market is the biggest industry in the world, Sallow you believe every nation invested in housing in the USA to such a degree it was 90% of their investments. We are talking about what percentage of bad home loans, do you think a 100% of our housing market collapsed or do you believe it was 10%, if its 10% that is at best 10,000,000 homes with bad loans and at that the money is not lost, what is the lost 50%, more in some markets, less in others.

50% of the value of 10,000,000 homes is enough to destroy the economy across the world.

Pure bullshit.

Barney Frank, the Gay Senator that was the Chairman of the Financial Services Committee, the Politician that never lost an election, that is important, Barney Frank remained in power, Presidents came and went, Barney Frank the Democrat Senator remained in the position where it was Barney Franks responsibility to regulate the financial sectors that failed.

Sallow if you call that placing blame I think you have no understanding what the Financial Services Committee is and how it is Senators that rule, regulate, and oversee the markets from Committee.

Are we thus in agreement, that Demcrat Gay Senator Barney Frank is directly responsible for the current economic crisis.