Honest discussion about Abortion. Be prepared for FACTS

Just because a bunch of people vote for something doesnt make it moral or right. People voted for slavery. If Nevada voted that it was ok for you to own another human being would you be ok with that?

Well, no, because the 13th Amendment specifically prohibits slavery.

The problem with you Holy Rollers is that you want to make women slaves by forcing them to have babies they don't want.

Now, here's the thing. The 13th Amendment abolished slavery, but the former CSA states just found a new way around it called "Debt Peonage." Here's how that worked. You convict someone (usually black) or a minor offense. Then you sell off his debt for that offense to a private concern. But "gotcha", the private concern could then charge you for room and board and keep in you servitude. This practice did not end until 1942, when the US Congress outlawed it because it was a bad look going into WWII.

In short, slavery really didn't "end" until everyone agreed it should end.

Again not a legal standard of when the fetus gains rights.

Why do you think that will change much of anything.

I give you, the 18th Amendment. A bunch of Holy Rollers decided that if you put Prohibition in the Constitution, everyone would find Jesus and stop drinking. Why, America would be a much better place once we've imposed an unwanted morality on people and....

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Oh, shit. People still wanted booze. People were willing to ignore the law to get Booze. And after a mere 15 years, everyone recognized reality, passed the 21st Amendment to overturn the 18th, and we all tried to pretend it didn't happen.


Now, how does this apply to Abortion. Assuming you guys make it a national law making Globby more of a person than the woman he is inside, you still have the problem that Globby is inside a woman who has the ability to do something about it. Unless you are willing to arrest women and put them on trial for having abortions, they will still try to seek illegal abortions, just like they did before 1973.
 
There is an unwritten and unspoken war against motherhood in our culture today.

This is why the Democrats are literally flooding the airways with Abortion, LGBTQ, Transgender, and Mysogyny topics.

The family-friendly topics are gone. Sure Kamala is offering 6k for children....but the preponderance of her platform is other topics that are not advocating families.

Not ONCE has Kamala talked about her pride in her child. (Who looks like a lunatic)
She never once has talked about how people can raise their own children with assistance from the government. School system education programs or anything else like that. It's a travesty how Covid kids are behind in education from missing class time. But not one word on getting them caught up.

Motherhood and nuclear families are 3rd class citizens at best.
 
Well, no, because the 13th Amendment specifically prohibits slavery.

The problem with you Holy Rollers is that you want to make women slaves by forcing them to have babies they don't want.

Now, here's the thing. The 13th Amendment abolished slavery, but the former CSA states just found a new way around it called "Debt Peonage." Here's how that worked. You convict someone (usually black) or a minor offense. Then you sell off his debt for that offense to a private concern. But "gotcha", the private concern could then charge you for room and board and keep in you servitude. This practice did not end until 1942, when the US Congress outlawed it because it was a bad look going into WWII.

In short, slavery really didn't "end" until everyone agreed it should end.



Why do you think that will change much of anything.

I give you, the 18th Amendment. A bunch of Holy Rollers decided that if you put Prohibition in the Constitution, everyone would find Jesus and stop drinking. Why, America would be a much better place once we've imposed an unwanted morality on people and....

View attachment 1024950

Oh, shit. People still wanted booze. People were willing to ignore the law to get Booze. And after a mere 15 years, everyone recognized reality, passed the 21st Amendment to overturn the 18th, and we all tried to pretend it didn't happen.


Now, how does this apply to Abortion. Assuming you guys make it a national law making Globby more of a person than the woman he is inside, you still have the problem that Globby is inside a woman who has the ability to do something about it. Unless you are willing to arrest women and put them on trial for having abortions, they will still try to seek illegal abortions, just like they did before 1973.
This has nothing to do with religion. I know putting it in that lane makes it easier for you to cast aside and disparage the argument that we are ending a life. Abortion kills a human being. Calling it a fetus doesnt change that. Fetus is just a name for a stage of life, like baby or toddler. The fragility of your argument is obvious in that you have dress up what you are advocating for as well as make about religion or enslaving women. It's not like how humans get pregnant is a mystery. If you're confused about it I'm sure your Mommy and Daddy can explain it to you. Take birth control, make the man wear a condom and pull out before he ejaculates, and don't have sex when you are ovulating. Do those things and it's virtually impossible to get pregnant. Actions have consequences and you don't get to kill another human being because their existence is inconvenient for you.
 
Nobody is having an abortion past week 20 without a damned good medical reason.
Ok so we are good with a law that would ban an abortion post 20 weeks that had specific conditions written in for those medical exceptions. Good to know.

Edit: I forgot. And that date would be tied to medical advancements that moved when a baby is viable outside the womb closer to conception.
 
Nobody is having an abortion past week 20 without a damned good medical reason.

If medical advancements were made so that all humans were viable outside the womb at the moment of conception you would be good with banning abortion then correct?
 
" Obsessive Red Herring Distractions Of Abortion Anti-Choice Freak Farmer Fanatics "

* Beckoning For Whimsical Justification Rather Than Ceding Trust Of Decisions To Individual Citizens *

So viability is the standard then? You support no abortions post 20ish weeks and that standard will move ever closer to conception as medical advancements are made?
The issue of abortion is not this , " when does life begin ? " , rather the issue of abortion is this , " when does a state interest begin ? " .

The answer to the question of " when does a state interest begin ? " is that a state interest begins with a citizen , which requires a live birth according to us constitution , where roe v wade substituted natural viability in lieu of a live birth requirement given an ability of a fetus to survive an imminent live birth .

A standard of natural viability for " without cause " abortion is rhetorical , in that women are seeking " with cause " abortion at those stages of development , that is based on developmental anomalies , which the abortion anti-choice malevolently chooses to ignore .

Thus , the medical advancements argument is rhetorical as well in that abortion anti-choice deviously and maliciously seeks to disregard " with cause " abortion by myopically restricting its focus to " without cause " abortion arguments .
 
" Control Freaks With Anthropocentric Psychotic Obsession About Hue Mammon Apes "

* Blubbers About Every Missed Fortunate Hue Mammon Sole On The Planet - NOT *

If medical advancements were made so that all humans were viable outside the womb at the moment of conception you would be good with banning abortion then correct?
While 90% of developmental anomalies are diagnosed through ultrasound which typically occurs between 13 and 20 weeks of development , assuming it is available , amniocentesis is not safely available until 15 weeks with a 1 in 100 chance of miscarriage or at 20 weeks with a 1 in 200 chance of miscarriage , while chorionic villus tests are available as early as 10 weeks for those with high risks .

 
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" Attempting To Push The Envelope Of Dictation For Implementing Not Your Decision "

* Preferred Proactive Responses Undermined By Financial Greed *

Ok so we are good with a law that would ban an abortion post 20 weeks that had specific conditions written in for those medical exceptions. Good to know.
The abortion policies in europe make a distinction between without cause abortion and with cause abortion , but those socialism systems also include free prenatal health care .

* Cannot Mandate Financial Indemnity Or Forsake Pursuit Of Happiness *
Edit: I forgot. And that date would be tied to medical advancements that moved when a baby is viable outside the womb closer to conception.
A " medical advancements " argument does not consider the incumbent financial costs incurred , that most often includes indemnity to life long disabilities , and those cannot be mandated and the decision remains with the individual .
 
" An Individual Citizen Decision And Not That Of The Federal Or State Goober Mints "

* When Psychopaths Control The Highest Levels Of Tyranny Against The Individual Citizen *

Now, how does this apply to Abortion. Assuming you guys make it a national law making Globby more of a person than the woman he is inside, you still have the problem that Globby is inside a woman who has the ability to do something about it. Unless you are willing to arrest women and put them on trial for having abortions, they will still try to seek illegal abortions, just like they did before 1973.
There is a ruse going on that the fee press is hiding , mostly out of pure ignorance and congenital stupidity of the abortion choice leadership , and because the abortion anti-choice leaders do not intend to fess up by including it in their platform and informing their drones for the fee press to report on it .

The ruse is that the abortion anti-choice , those who are pandering state rites on the issue of abortion , perceive federal law to be distinct from state law and their objectives are to implement restrictions at the federal level that apply to federal employees and to such things as sending mifepristone through federal mail .
 
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Planned parenthood loves doing abortions.
As usual, no attempt at honest discussion from any of the pro-lifers. The thread title is a lie.

I've never met an extremist pro-lifer who didn't lie about everything. They literally think that God blesses their lies, and that lying for the cause is a good thing.

However, God would never tell them to lie like that. They're serving the other guy.

Needless to say, if their position wasn't moral dogcrap, they wouldn't need to lie about everything. But it is, so they do.
 
This has nothing to do with religion. I know putting it in that lane makes it easier for you to cast aside and disparage the argument that we are ending a life. Abortion kills a human being. Calling it a fetus doesnt change that. Fetus is just a name for a stage of life, like baby or toddler.

No, a fetus specifically describes a non-viable entity that has no right to life. And I'd be a lot more impressed with your supposed concern for "children" if you weren't constantly trying to snatch food out of the mouths of them to give tax breaks to billionaires. Or tried to do something to keep the next school shooter from going on his rampage.

The fragility of your argument is obvious in that you have dress up what you are advocating for as well as make about religion or enslaving women.

That's exactly what it's about. You guys don't give a shit about children. You never have. This is about controlling people to please your imaginary sky friend.

. It's not like how humans get pregnant is a mystery. If you're confused about it I'm sure your Mommy and Daddy can explain it to you. Take birth control, make the man wear a condom and pull out before he ejaculates, and don't have sex when you are ovulating.

Birth control fails.
Condoms burst.
You usually have some pre-ejaculate that gets to the egg.
The Rhythm Method? Guy, I grew up in a Catholic Neighborhood where everyone had 5-8 kids. Clearly none of us had any rhythm.

Do those things and it's virtually impossible to get pregnant. Actions have consequences and you don't get to kill another human being because their existence is inconvenient for you.

Sure you do. Because no jury will convict you for doing it; heck, the only reason why you got Gosnell in prison was because he accidentally killed one of his grown-up patients. The question I asked during the Gosnell trial about the murder of these 100, seven, four, three fetuses* was why weren't any of the mothers charged. Gosnell wasn't going around the neighborhood snatching them off the streets, they all walked down to his Clinic.

(* the original indictment was for 100 murdered fetuses, but they kept cutting it down as they couldn't prove most of them were even viable. Then they made Gosnell a sweetheart sentencing deal to keep him from appealing.)

Ok so we are good with a law that would ban an abortion post 20 weeks that had specific conditions written in for those medical exceptions. Good to know.

Nope. Simply put, I don't want the government making medical decisions. Nor the Church. Nor an insurance company. A patient and her doctor, these are the only people who would EVER be involved in the decision.

If medical advancements were made so that all humans were viable outside the womb at the moment of conception you would be good with banning abortion then correct?
Only if they require them to be put in an unwilling Holy Roller, and they are responsible for that fetus for the rest of their lives.

The day we start growing people in labs will be the day being human becomes meaningless.
 
No, a fetus specifically describes a non-viable entity that has no right to life. And I'd be a lot more impressed with your supposed concern for "children" if you weren't constantly trying to snatch food out of the mouths of them to give tax breaks to billionaires. Or tried to do something to keep the next school shooter from going on his rampage.
You were a fetus. Your family was fetus. But nobody asks the abortionist to remove this fetus. They show up to kill it realizing it is human. Humans have no right to life as you see it for some wild reason. As you saw Ashli Babbitt as not having a right to her life because some jerk lifted her into a busted window. Amazing how you think.
 
When I was twelve years old, I was in a church hall after Mass and saw a photograph of a dead baby, ripped apart limb from limb and bloody from an abortion.

No one ever had to tell me it was wrong.
 
If 70 percent of women in thr nation took the steps not to have kids would thst satisfy those who are still unhappy with roe being overturned?
 
Planned parenthood loves doing abortions. They have "cute names" for the child, the place they incinerate them and watch the video for the truth from a former planned parenthood worker who is very experienced.
Would you save the child were it yours?

Planned Butcherhood probably sells the Stem Cells for Profit.
 
You were a fetus. Your family was fetus. But nobody asks the abortionist to remove this fetus. They show up to kill it realizing it is human. Humans have no right to life as you see it for some wild reason. As you saw Ashli Babbitt as not having a right to her life because some jerk lifted her into a busted window. Amazing how you think.

Ashli was a 160th Trimester abortion... Snicker.

If Ashli didn't want to die, she shouldn't have attacked an armed police officer. Or tried to overthrow the government.

Accidently you claim?

No, I didn't claim anything of the sort. Gosnell because the Doctor of Last Resort for these women because PA had one of the goofiest pre-Dobbs laws in the country.

Women went to him for late abortions because legitimate abortion clinics wouldn't touch them.

Unfortunately, he was grossly incompetent, and one of his adult patients died. And they had more than enough evidence on him for other crimes, they didn't need to pretend he had killed actual people when he performed abortions on willing women.

My point, which you avoided in your word cloud from Wiki (which violates USMB rules) is that if he was truly guilty of murder in killing those fetuses, so were the women who had the abortions. So why weren't they charged?
 

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