Here is a politician I could behind…

[Mikeoxenormous]

Long response, and while you’ll find I disagree with parts, I appreciate the effort and will try to reply in kind.

For this part, I was referring to WV, where we just passed an anti-CRT law, and it was discussed in a regular radio broadcast Our Legislature Today, that covers what the WV legislature is doing. When asked if he knew of any instances where CRT was being taught in WV K12 he was forced to admit there weren’t any he knew of. Fortunately Higher Ed was removed from the final bill but still it is a bad bill.



A couple of issues here…first, with source. I did read the article but was disturbed by a few things. One is that for some of it’s strongest claims it offered no links or links that looped back to it’s own articles. That makes it difficult to evaluate It’s accuracy.

On “accurate history”…how do we define it (and who defines it)? That is good question that unfortunately today is largely being answered by politicians not historians. There is a lot to be said for history being written by the victors and that is apparent in the way our history has long been taught, from the viewpoint and achievements of white, male Americans. Traditionally, the voices, tragedies and contributions of blacks, women, Hispanics and others have been marginalized or omitted. Now that have found some political strength tbey want their stories to be included in history.

Gotta go, out of time, will address more later.

On “accurate history”…how do we define it (and who defines it)?

Well, there is the "facts" of history, and then there are the truths of the progressive party. I prefer facts, because just like with a person with a vagina and XX chromosome, it is a fact of science that is a woman, even i who never graduated from college understands.

 

[Coyote]

no instance of CRT anywhere through K12? please cite that example of who said that statement.

Critical Race Theory Is Being Taught in K-12 Schools, First Lady Biden Supports it

First Lady Jill Biden (D) joined American Federation of Teachers Union President Randi Weingarten for a conference, voicing her support for Critical Race Theory and pushing back against Florida’s opposition.

floridianpress.com

"During the conference, Weingarten argued that “Critical Race Theory is not taught in elementary schools or middle schools or high schools.” Calling detractors “culture warriors,” Weingarten added that they are “bullying teachers and trying to stop us from teaching accurate history.”

how do we define "accurate" history?

later in this article:

"The Broward County School Board has included Critical Race Theory resources on its website, sharing that it is "in the courage of our young people to seek truth and justice in our country and take on our most pressing duties such as reforming our criminal justice system and changing the mindsets of bias, racism, and oppression." The site concludes that "change is never easy, but always necessary.”"

several examples are in here and point to videos. while they don't always call it CRT, the message is there. white people are the core issue in many of the videos and statements found throughout the websites you see linked from this article.

Back again, so I’ll respond to the rest of this. They don’t call it CRT because likely isn’t. What they are doing lumping anything to with equity and diversity and honest discussions of race and racism in history into one convenient bogeyman: CRT. But from reading some of this I am not sure they KNOW what CRT is.

The yahoo article is really an interesting read. What I got from it is that Crt isn’t actually taught in lower grades but should be. They also make a good point about the problems with these laws and it is exactly the problem I have. They are very broad and vague. They don’t define CRT or even mention it. The goal is to stop teachers from teaching “divisive” subjects (ie race and gender).

All these bills are incredibly similar… no surprise, they come from a central organization, not grass roots local activists. Exposing ALEC: How Conservative-Backed State Laws Are All Connected

This line is in pretty much all of this legislation:

“That any individual should feel discomfort,
guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on
account of his or her race or sex.“

Do you see how dangerous that is, how vague and broad? Keep in mind, teachers face loss of licensure, fines, job loss, lawsuites.

From your yahoo article:

The bans put teachers in an awkward position. For example, in Oklahoma, where 100 years ago the Tulsa Race Massacre, in which a violent mob of white people destroyed the Tulsa Black neighborhood of Greenwood and officially killed 37 residents (though some estimates are as high as 300), high school teacher Telannia Norfar's students are eager to learn about major events that touch on race.

"But how do we do that without opening Oklahoma City public schools up to a lawsuit?" she told NPR. While Oklahoma City School Board Paula Lewis explained to the outlet, "What if they say the wrong thing? What if somebody in their class during the critical thinking brings up the word oppression or systemic racism? Are they in danger? Is their job in danger?"

This illustrates the problem faced by teachers. Even worse, some states extend this to Higher Ed where you are SUPPOSED to be challenged.

With laws like these how can teach our history accurately, provoke discussion, and teach critical thinking? The idea is not to tell them what to think…but encourage them TO think..and maybe come up with solutions. But…can’t do that under these laws.

Critical race theory is causing controversy in K-12 classrooms. Here's what parents should know.

Critical race theory is generating controversy in some K-12 schools but experts say misinformation is what's fueling protest.

www.yahoo.com

are you saying all these states are banning something that simply doesn't exist?

I’m saying it isn’t taught (for the most part) in K12 BUT it fires up the base…now they have something other than Antifa and Muslims.

K-12

Critical Race Training in primary and secondary education is a growing issue and one that’s significantly more difficult to track.

criticalrace.org

would seem odd to say something doesn't exist when the website itself says it does.

That website…it isn’t a CRT website…here is what it states About itself:

CriticalRace.org is a resource for parents and students concerned about how Critical Race Theory, and implementation of Critical Race Training, impacts education. We have compiled the most comprehensive database to empower parents and students.

Not all of the colleges and universities in this database and map have Critical Race Training. This list allows you to check. For those who do have such Critical Race Training, there are varying degrees of such programming, some mandatory, some not. For many schools, it’s a continuum of programming, such as “Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion” and “implicit bias” training and programming, that does not easily fit into a Yes/No construct. We provide information from which you can assess the developments.

First red flag…why do they call it programming?
Second red flag…Diversity, Equity and Inclusion is not CRT (which has a specific definition)…what they are is lumping all education around these topics as “programming” and CRT.

What is DEI?
Best description I’ve found:

• Diversity is where everyone is invited to the party​

• Inclusion means that everyone gets to contribute to the playlist​

• Equity means that everyone has the opportunity to dance​

Elite Private Schools

criticalrace.org

The private schools below are the Top 50 Elite Private K-12 Schools in the country, as ranked by Niche.com for 2022. As with our higher education database, some have embraced CRT explicitly, while others have a continuum of programming, such as "antiracism", "equity", and "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" that does not easily fit into a Yes/No construct. We provide information from which you can make the most informed decision possible.

do you still wish to maintain it isn't being taught through K12? if so you'll need to take it up with criticalrace.org because they seem to disagree with you.

That seems to be referring to private schools…?

seems funny to me you trivialize transgender as a "few freak issues" of it being pushed then cite some rare examples, such as medical treatment illegal, as standard. you can't go both ways with this. dismiss the extreme of the other "as extreme" while you take your own extremes and say they're commonplace.

I don’t consider them “freak” issues. They are human beings. The problem with the medical treatment issue is it isn’t just a one-off, it is part of a growing trend of legislation. Not a rare example. There are something like 19 states passing or considering legislation banning medical treatment for transgender kids.

Freedom for All Americans: The Campaign to Win LGBTQ Nondiscrimination Nationwide

Freedom for All Americans is the bipartisan campaign to win LGBTQ nondiscrimination protections nationwide, including protections from discrimination in employment, housing, and public spaces.

freedomforallamericans.org

What are your thoughts on this?

as for being shocked at what you read, do you choose to believe only 5 transgenders are in Utah or did you research it?

Fair point. On rereading the article, it referenced transgender athletes in K12m not total number of transgender children, but the point still stands. The law was passed to single out one out of only five out all Utah’s K12 children. Is this good legislation and if so…why?

Utah bans transgender athletes in girls sports despite governor's veto

Lawmakers voted to override GOP Gov. Spencer Cox's veto of legislation banning transgender youth athletes from playing on girls teams. The move comes amid a nationwide culture war over trans issues.

www.npr.org

Also, your source here misses the point. The legislation I mentioned was for transgender KIDS, your source quotes number of transgenders in the state total, no differentiation between adults and children in K12, whom the legislation is directed at. Even then…transgenders in Utah account for only .36% of the population. Why is such a tiny minority getting so much legislative attention against it?

Here's how many transgender people live in your state

Splinter is your home for news and opinions that challenge power in our political and economic system that's becoming more unhinged each and every day.

splinternews.com

seems they say 7200. so do you believe what supports your views or do you challenge your own views and continue to dig when something "Doesn't seem right'?

now, for it being uncommon and not pushed on kids.

Disney/Pixar Casting for Its First Animated Transgender Character

The same studio that brought you much-loved animated features like Toy Story, The Incredibles, Finding Nemo, and Cars, is now casting for its first transgender character.

www1.cbn.com

disney is pushing it hard and many of their themes are pushing it. sorry, while i do agree it's an important topic for kids, this is for the family to determine and discuss. not put these next to mickey mouse and fantasia.

All Disney is doing is normalizing transgender people. are there explicit sex scenes? Is it any different than having male characters and female charecters?

National Education Association Pushes Transgendered Education in Elementary Schools

'Transgender and non-binary youth are part of classrooms all across this country and deserve to see their stories reflected in their schools and communities'

legalinsurrection.com

From the HRC blog:



interesting now however, the blog has been removed. but thousands of parents and allies coming together for this topic isn't a rare occurrence to be dismissed.

There is a link in what you quoted that goes here:

Jazz & Friends Readings to Affirm Transgender and Nonbinary Youth

Join us on February 24, 2022 in supporting #transgender & #nonbinary youth with a community or school reading of #IAmJazz, "CALVIN", "Born Ready or "From the Stars in the Sky to the Fish in the Sea. Find out how you can participate!

welcomingschools.org

Affirm Transgender and Non-Binary Youth
After a national anti-LGBTQ hate group bullied a young transgender girl in Mount Horeb, Wisconsin, her community rallied behind her by hosting a community readingof "I Am Jazz" by transgender advocate Jazz Jennings.
Every year, in honor of the Mount Horeb community’s allyship, communities across the country join HRC's Welcoming Schools program for its annual Jazz & Friends National Day of School and Community Readings.
Support transgender and non-binary youth by organizing a reading in your school or in your community at a local library, bookstore, place of worship or community center.

What is bad about this?

Qso, no. i don't believe these are rare occurrences that we can dismiss as fruitcakes mad about nothing.

now, to your question of "is this the most important issue we face"? it would seem so if you look at all the people pushing it. so it must be important to at least THEM and that's fine. but no one single view should overtake all.

people who are different have challenges. now, i also believe we're all "different" in some way. does someone with more challenges according to society come in as more important than my own challenges? not usually. knowing someone else has it worse seldom is known to make a person feel better about their own lot in life.

I don’t it is a question of “being more important”…individually we are all important right? I want to think so!

But, there is no denying that (as in any culture) there are
Some groups far more challenged and far less accepted by society…low hanging fruit…racial minorities, religious minorities, physically disabled…then there are the cognitively disabled, the mentally ill, homosexuals..and high up or at tbe bottom of the social heap, transgenders…America’s untouchables.

You and I might be different (believe me, I was always a freak!) but I doubt any of us faced what a transgender person has had to face.

as for surgery and the like - if that's what someone wants to spend their money on, have at it. if insurance wants to cover it and offer a policy, have at it. but the gov should not be funding this or spending collective resources on needs that according to the article above, represent a small minority of our overall population.

As to the government funding it…it should be treated no differently than any other surgery…right? If rarity of a disease alone dictated resources for treatment, many people with rare diseases would have none.

so you can say as loudly as you wish that these topics simply do not exist, but i've shown they in fact, do. you say CRT isn't being taught cause some random GOP person said it can't be found and this means more than criticalrace.org.

He isn’t some random GOP person. He is the state legislator for my state who proposed tbe legislation And was referencing my state.

Also…I do not think criticalrace.org is what you think it is.

look, we will never fix our issues if we think the other side is always overreacting to our needs. you dismiss the claims of the right by trying to minimize them to non existence. how would you respond if i did the same to your beliefs and needs and said not important?

I think it depends on the claims right? For either side.

In this case, I think CRT and transgenders have political cannon fodder. It is easier to rally around than inflation.

from past history, you'll get mad. rightfully so. we all do.

but it's what we do after that which has us all fucked up. now, how do we fix that?

 

[BackAgain]

Republicans are trapped on the back of the white nationalist tiger, fearful of getting off without being eaten.

Conservatives know that white nationalists, bigots, racists, and neo-fascists vote overwhelmingly Republican – Republicans wouldn’t dare risk alienating that important component of the voting base.

Nonsense. Democrats — by their very actions — reveal that they are racists. The Democrat Parody assumes that they are entitled to the “black” vote. It’s their plantation mentality.

If you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black. It wasn’t a Republican who said that. It was the corrupt old senile doddering racist Alzheimer Victim in Chief who said that. He has a long history of expressing racist things. But black racists like you, Adam_Clayton, excuse it because of the big “D” after President Brandon’s name. Face it Adam_Clayton, you’re an enabler.

 

[Coyote]

im not sure something must be "actively done" to oppose it coming into your system. you seem to be saying that since no one was yet teaching it in their state, there's no need to make it illegal. on the flip side, maybe they caught it early and kept it out vs. having to try and get it out later.

now maybe this link will work better.

https://cyber.harvard.edu/bridge/CriticalTheory/critical4.htm

Critical race theories combine progressive political struggles for racial justice with critiques of the conventional legal and scholarly norms which are themselves viewed as part of the illegitimate hierarchies that need to be changed. Scholars, most of whom are themselves persons of color, challenge the ways that race and racial power are constructed by law and culture. One key focus of critical race theorists is a regime of white supremacy and privilege maintained despite the rule of law and the constitutional guarantee of equal protection of the laws. Agreeing with critical theorists and many feminists that law itself is not a neutral tool but instead part of the problem, critical race scholars identify inadequacies of conventional civil rights litigation. Critical race theorists nonetheless fault critical legal scholars as failing to develop much to attract people of color and for neglecting the transformative potential of rights discourse in social movements, regardless of the internal incoherence or indeterminacy of rights themselves.

coyote, this isn't history, this is a political agenda. it combines as Harvard says, progressive political struggles for what they feel is important to THEM.

But look at what it says…”legal scholars”..it is stating it as a College Law School construct. It isn’t a political agenda, it is a theory used in law school.

not the country. not us all, but them. lets see what else harvard says about this.

Critical race theorists reject the idea that "race" has a natural referent. Instead, it is a product of social processes of power. People do not have a race, writes Kendall Thomas; they are "race-d." Unveiling the legal, social, and cultural operations by which people are assigned and invested with races is one central project of critical race theory. They urge re-cognizing race not as an inherent characteristic of people but instead a product of social practices. Because unconscious as well as intentional practices construct racial status, stereotypes, and practices, legal reforms must address unconscious practices as well as intentional ones.

so race is not real, it's a man made construction to keep non white races down. well, if races are not real but a construct then how can we have "white" people TO keep non white people down? you say something doesn't exist but then divide us up by it.

as you read through what harvard says, you can see this is a political movement, not a history lesson. get it out of schools and let people who wish to take it do so as an elective of their own choosing. if you can show that this is in fact history, not politics, then it's a valid discussion. but everything im reading on the harvard site is screaming POLITICAL.

Keep in mind this is a theory, in higher Ed Law School…like Harvard. It isn’t a political movement, it is nothing more than a theoretical framework to understand why inequities persist. Take it or leave it.

and their actions of hiding/denying/redefining terms is why you see actions of people cutting it off before it can spread.

do you feel it's ok to be proactive in addressing issues, or simply wait until your house is on fire before you buy a fire extinguisher? while you may not agree with that analogy, to me your saying "they couldn't find an example of it anywhere" doesn't mean you can't say "don't do that here".

I think there is a difference in being pro-active and in “creating solutions in search of a problem”. It reminds me of the spate of anti-Muslim legislation in response to the fear of nonexistent “creeping sharia”.

but it is a link and i do provide those to source where i am getting my information from so i don't have you guessing my intent or purpose behind what i am saying. as for looping back to their own articles, welcome to journalism of today. if that is a qualification to throw out references, fine. then please cite your references for the things you point out (like only 4 transgender people in Utah - i showed a site saying 7200. at least i showed where i got the number for reference and research) and if it does any questionable linking, we'll simply throw it out of the discussion because it can't be believed.

I provided my link above

if we do it to one side for XYZ reason, we do it to all. demanding "news" say what we feel is how we got into this mess. or at least a huge contributing factor. im willing to accept things i don't like as factual and true as long as you don't try to hide sources and play shell games.


why? are they in favor of teaching sex education to children? children want to be anything they see and live in their own fairy tale worlds, which can be an amazing thing. so if you show kids transgenders, how many will want to "dress up" simply because they see it? when it is an appropriate age to bring up complex sexual and gender situations to a child? can't we just let them be kids? if they have questions, fine. talk to them and have counselors and staff there for them to discuss this with. but what is the point of forcing the topic on kids?

and why is disney doing it in full force and lying about what is in the florida bill by calling it "don't say gay"? is that a fair summation when it never says that in the bill? are you representing the conservative views or mocking them with this?

again, when you intentionally mischaracterize something, why should i take you seriously when in my mind, you're not taking yourself seriously much less the topic. these statements are to mock and discredit, not understand and deal with a problem someone actually has. if you want people to address your views and "problems" seriously, then you need to do that to their views and problems as well.

our sheer and utter refusal to do that across the board today is why we're at such odds and fight at the drop of a hat, regardless of the topic.

 

[whitehall]

"A republican....BUT. What does that say about the current status of the democrat establishment? Anybody but Biden?

 

[Coyote]

Well, there is the "facts" of history, and then there are the truths of the progressive party. I prefer facts, because just like with a person with a vagina and XX chromosome, it is a fact of science that is a woman, even i who never graduated from college understands.




View attachment 623395

What are the “facts” of history? What facts get omitted?

 

[Coyote]

"A republican....BUT. What does that say about the current status of the democrat establishment? Anybody but Biden?

No. Biden isn’t that bad. I’m just rooting for more centrist candidates on both sides. So..even if the guy I voted for lost, I could still tolerate or even support the winner.

 

[iceberg]

Back again, so I’ll respond to the rest of this. They don’t call it CRT because likely isn’t. What they are doing lumping anything to with equity and diversity and honest discussions of race and racism in history into one convenient bogeyman: CRT. But from reading some of this I am not sure they KNOW what CRT is.

then what is CRT and what are they trying to teach? let me let you explain it this direction instead.

The yahoo article is really an interesting read. What I got from it is that Crt isn’t actually taught in lower grades but should be. They also make a good point about the problems with these laws and it is exactly the problem I have. They are very broad and vague. They don’t define CRT or even mention it. The goal is to stop teachers from teaching “divisive” subjects (ie race and gender).

All these bills are incredibly similar… no surprise, they come from a central organization, not grass roots local activists. Exposing ALEC: How Conservative-Backed State Laws Are All Connected

This line is in pretty much all of this legislation:

“That any individual should feel discomfort,
guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on
account of his or her race or sex.“

Do you see how dangerous that is, how vague and broad? Keep in mind, teachers face loss of licensure, fines, job loss, lawsuites.

and what got us to this point? in my mind total and complete lack of compromise and an insane push by both sides to be as extreme as they can. people react anymore and simply refuse to think.

yes, that's very vague. most of what we deal with anymore is vague. it isn't going to get better til both sides stop this bullshit and compromise.

From your yahoo article:

The bans put teachers in an awkward position. For example, in Oklahoma, where 100 years ago the Tulsa Race Massacre, in which a violent mob of white people destroyed the Tulsa Black neighborhood of Greenwood and officially killed 37 residents (though some estimates are as high as 300), high school teacher Telannia Norfar's students are eager to learn about major events that touch on race.

"But how do we do that without opening Oklahoma City public schools up to a lawsuit?" she told NPR. While Oklahoma City School Board Paula Lewis explained to the outlet, "What if they say the wrong thing? What if somebody in their class during the critical thinking brings up the word oppression or systemic racism? Are they in danger? Is their job in danger?"

This illustrates the problem faced by teachers. Even worse, some states extend this to Higher Ed where you are SUPPOSED to be challenged.

With laws like these how can teach our history accurately, provoke discussion, and teach critical thinking? The idea is not to tell them what to think…but encourage them TO think..and maybe come up with solutions. But…can’t do that under these laws.

yet liberals have zero compulsion banning conservatives and their ideology from college campuses and anywhere else where, as you say - we're supposed to be challenged. how is that promoting critical thinking? i don't see the left going after critical thinking, i see them calling all white people racist nazi trump lovers and refusing to give them equal time in the community or social media.

do don't tell me this is to provoke discussion when discussion is the last thing i see the left (or the right many times) is after. i can't put those together based on what i see. say one thing, do it or what you said is meaningless to me. (not you per se, just you in general. i hope you understand that but i wanted to call it out)

I’m saying it isn’t taught (for the most part) in K12 BUT it fires up the base…now they have something other than Antifa and Muslims.

That website…it isn’t a CRT website…here is what it states About itself:

CriticalRace.org is a resource for parents and students concerned about how Critical Race Theory, and implementation of Critical Race Training, impacts education. We have compiled the most comprehensive database to empower parents and students.

Not all of the colleges and universities in this database and map have Critical Race Training. This list allows you to check. For those who do have such Critical Race Training, there are varying degrees of such programming, some mandatory, some not. For many schools, it’s a continuum of programming, such as “Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion” and “implicit bias” training and programming, that does not easily fit into a Yes/No construct. We provide information from which you can assess the developments.

First red flag…why do they call it programming?
Second red flag…Diversity, Equity and Inclusion is not CRT (which has a specific definition)…what they are is lumping all education around these topics as “programming” and CRT.

What is DEI?
Best description I’ve found:

• Diversity is where everyone is invited to the party​

• Inclusion means that everyone gets to contribute to the playlist​

• Equity means that everyone has the opportunity to dance​

That seems to be referring to private schools…?

didn't dig that deep into criticalrage.org - i take "org" to be official when maybe i should not have. good and totally fair point.

I don’t consider them “freak” issues. They are human beings. The problem with the medical treatment issue is it isn’t just a one-off, it is part of a growing trend of legislation. Not a rare example. There are something like 19 states passing or considering legislation banning medical treatment for transgender kids.

Freedom for All Americans: The Campaign to Win LGBTQ Nondiscrimination Nationwide

Freedom for All Americans is the bipartisan campaign to win LGBTQ nondiscrimination protections nationwide, including protections from discrimination in employment, housing, and public spaces.

freedomforallamericans.org

What are your thoughts on this?

Fair point. On rereading the article, it referenced transgender athletes in K12m not total number of transgender children, but the point still stands. The law was passed to single out one out of only five out all Utah’s K12 children. Is this good legislation and if so…why?

Utah bans transgender athletes in girls sports despite governor's veto

Lawmakers voted to override GOP Gov. Spencer Cox's veto of legislation banning transgender youth athletes from playing on girls teams. The move comes amid a nationwide culture war over trans issues.

www.npr.org

Also, your source here misses the point. The legislation I mentioned was for transgender KIDS, your source quotes number of transgenders in the state total, no differentiation between adults and children in K12, whom the legislation is directed at. Even then…transgenders in Utah account for only .36% of the population. Why is such a tiny minority getting so much legislative attention against it?

All Disney is doing is normalizing transgender people. are there explicit sex scenes? Is it any different than having male characters and female charecters?

ok, so let me get this straight from your last few sentences - transgenders only represent .36% of the population. if that is the case, why should there be an effort to "normalize" when by the numbers alone, they account for so few? i am NOT trying to diminish them, but you can't say one side is paying too much attention to so few numbers and then the other side is not paying way too much attention to *the very same numbers*.

and why is it disneys or ANYONES job to "normalize" anything? today some higher ups at disney said 50% of the characters moving forward need to be LGBTQ - and whatever else is added on anymore. 50% for 1/3 of a %? is that not more overkill?

and why should ANY physically male athlete be allowed to compete with a female and call it fair? do you actually think it's fair to the girls to compete with these "formerly male" athletes? you fight for the rights of a few at the expense of the rights of the many and i simply find that odd.

if transgenders wanna compete - become their own category and have at it.

There is a link in what you quoted that goes here:

Jazz & Friends Readings to Affirm Transgender and Nonbinary Youth

Join us on February 24, 2022 in supporting #transgender & #nonbinary youth with a community or school reading of #IAmJazz, "CALVIN", "Born Ready or "From the Stars in the Sky to the Fish in the Sea. Find out how you can participate!

welcomingschools.org

Affirm Transgender and Non-Binary Youth
After a national anti-LGBTQ hate group bullied a young transgender girl in Mount Horeb, Wisconsin, her community rallied behind her by hosting a community reading of "I Am Jazz" by transgender advocate Jazz Jennings.
Every year, in honor of the Mount Horeb community’s allyship, communities across the country join HRC's Welcoming Schools program for its annual Jazz & Friends National Day of School and Community Readings.
Support transgender and non-binary youth by organizing a reading in your school or in your community at a local library, bookstore, place of worship or community center.

What is bad about this?

whoever said there was anything bad about it? if they wish to gather in public or otherwise, they have that right as all do. people can support those efforts and i hope they do. but both sides have their vile asswhipes and we see them in display here daily. what i don't understand is we then choose to feel these people represent all of the other side because it's far more simply to stereotype and hate. both sides are horrible at this.

but it's human nature. you can't get mad at the other side for doing it then excuse your own for the same. kinda what we're all doing these days.

I don’t it is a question of “being more important”…individually we are all important right? I want to think so!

But, there is no denying that (as in any culture) there are
Some groups far more challenged and far less accepted by society…low hanging fruit…racial minorities, religious minorities, physically disabled…then there are the cognitively disabled, the mentally ill, homosexuals..and high up or at tbe bottom of the social heap, transgenders…America’s untouchables.

You and I might be different (believe me, I was always a freak!) but I doubt any of us faced what a transgender person has had to face.

and they have never faced what i have had to face. these points really don't do much for me as we can apply it to many groups and people and it simply won't change how we conduct our own lives until we *are* involved personally.

As to the government funding it…it should be treated no differently than any other surgery…right? If rarity of a disease alone dictated resources for treatment, many people with rare diseases would have none.

so transgender is a disease? no i don't think that's what you mean but you seem to be after the sympathy of a disease and apply it to what i and others feel is a choice. if you want to cut body parts off, have at it. don't expect others to pay for it however. my opinion, that's all.

He isn’t some random GOP person. He is the state legislator for my state who proposed tbe legislation And was referencing my state.

Also…I do not think criticalrace.org is what you think it is.

I think it depends on the claims right? For either side.

In this case, I think CRT and transgenders have political cannon fodder. It is easier to rally around than inflation.

well in all fairness at the time he was because you did not say who he was. again, i come back to do you wait for something to be an issue or do you deal with it proactively? you may disagree it's an "issue" but they feel it is. total lack of respect for how others feel is why we're in this position - so back up just a little and think -

if they are concerned and don't share your views, do they still have the same rights as you to do speak their own and fight for them as well? if no - we have a serious issue in my mind.

if yes, where do we go from here?

 

[iceberg]

But look at what it says…”legal scholars”..it is stating it as a College Law School construct. It isn’t a political agenda, it is a theory used in law school.

Keep in mind this is a theory, in higher Ed Law School…like Harvard. It isn’t a political movement, it is nothing more than a theoretical framework to understand why inequities persist. Take it or leave it.

I think there is a difference in being pro-active and in “creating solutions in search of a problem”. It reminds me of the spate of anti-Muslim legislation in response to the fear of nonexistent “creeping sharia”.

I provided my link above

if we're back to criticalrace.org - i give you that it isn't what i thought was and given that, the terminology can be seen as one sided.

CRT to me *is* a political movement. it's painfully obvious many people are not comfortable with it as home schooling is through the roof these days. do you continue to push people away from you because you refuse to give their views as much credit as your own or do you sit down and say, "here is how i feel, how can we address this"?

one will keep the fighting going. the other is the first step of a long evolutionary journey.

btw - thank you. this has been some of the best discussion i've had since being on here.

 

[Pete7469]

The moderates are the one’s able to cross the aisle and work with tbe other side to pass things. They seem to be a dying breed though.

But something just occurred to me and I should look it up. There was a veterans group funding veteran candidates for either party and one of their planks was a willingness to work with the other side and pass legislation. Don’t know how successful they have been.

Who are "the moderates" and what to they stand for? Can you explain to me who could "moderate" a conflict between a rapist and a woman jogger? How about a mugger and a tourist? A 3rd world warlord and a captive about to be sold as chattel? A massive collectivist agenda and an individual who refuses to accept the idea that there are more than two genders, his property doesn't belong to him, that he has no rights to own weapons, speak freely even if it offends nearly everyone else and that no one should be able to make him wear a mask or an arm band with a Star of David on it?

Who is the "moderate" in US politics that can "bridge the gap between "people" who prattle on about "common sense" gun control and people who retort "control your own fucking children first".

There is a RIGHT Vs. WRONG issue at stake in every argument and there can not be a grey area unless you're willing to cut a baby in half.

I notice with liberals they're happy to throw the whole baby in dumpsters or chop them up and sell them as parts and hors d'oeuvres to the most sociopathic and elitist lunatics since Caligula though.

You don't "moderate" between RIGHT Vs. WRONG. It's either WRONG to murder, steal, lie or cause harm to the innocent or it's not. When leftists create "grey" areas there the natural law of God begins to unravel and that is the ultimate natural conflict between lucifer and our Creator. The natural Laws of God and what is RIGHT has been in conflict with the agenda of EVIL, represented by lucifer.

Following the 10 simple commandments of humanity's earliest history would have saved mankind thousands of years of suffering. Everything beyond that is inane bullshit.

 

[MisterBeale]

No way in hell would I vote in another spook and deep stater. Especially on the recommendation of Deep State propaganda mag, "The Atlantic."

. . . I don't think it is any accident that a quick scan of independent media comes up empty on this guy. Much like a lot of other actors and spooks that the establishment has run.

This guy won't give a fuck about Americans, only the globalist agenda.

 

[Oddball]

Who are "the moderates" and what to they stand for? Can you explain to me who could "moderate" a conflict between a rapist and a woman jogger? How about a mugger and a tourist? A 3rd world warlord and a captive about to be sold as chattel? A massive collectivist agenda and an individual who refuses to accept the idea that there are more than two genders, his property doesn't belong to him, that he has no rights to own weapons, speak freely even if it offends nearly everyone else and that no one should be able to make him wear a mask or an arm band with a Star of David on it?

Who is the "moderate" in US politics that can "bridge the gap between "people" who prattle on about "common sense" gun control and people who retort "control your own fucking children first".

There is a RIGHT Vs. WRONG issue at stake in every argument and there can not be a grey area unless you're willing to cut a baby in half.

I notice with liberals they're happy to throw the whole baby in dumpsters or chop them up and sell them as parts and hors d'oeuvres to the most sociopathic and elitist lunatics since Caligula though.

You don't "moderate" between RIGHT Vs. WRONG. It's either WRONG to murder, steal, lie or cause harm to the innocent or it's not. When leftists create "grey" areas there the natural law of God begins to unravel and that is the ultimate natural conflict between lucifer and our Creator. The natural Laws of God and what is RIGHT has been in conflict with the agenda of EVIL, represented by lucifer.

Following the 10 simple commandments of humanity's earliest history would have saved mankind thousands of years of suffering. Everything beyond that is inane bullshit.

"Moderate" is the refuge of intellectual and moral cowards.

 

[MisterBeale]

Another RINO hack liberals 'like' until they don't. No thanks.

This guy is a globalist.

The real folks, people that actually will vote in the general, not cross over scabs, will have a hard enough time duking it out over Trump and Desantis, b/c Trump has made some real bone headed errors working for, and with the globalists.

Why did he not can Fauci's ass when he had the chance? Why is he so cozy with Klaus Schwab and the WEF? Why is he all for the Build Back Better bullshit? That epic amount of global wealth transfer from the poor and middle classes to the billionaires, completely went against what Trump supposedly campaigned on. . . building back small businesses and small farms, and making America great, which were put out of business at record rates.

. . . and why, in all the name of that is holy, if he knew that there was going to be significant electoral shenanigans, (which he claimed repeatedly before the election,) did he not get out significant federal resources to monitor the vote, on those vote harvesting and private foundations and foreign entities paying off localities? And investigate those machines, that Diebold/Dominion deal before the election?

If you fail that epically? meh. . .

I think there is an opening, if Desantis wants it. He has so far done everything right. A lot of folks don't want the future they see coming.



. . . and if Deep State spooks try to shoe horn this guy into the nomination? Shit will probably get ugly.

 

[PinktheFloyd88]

…and he is a Republican.

Nah

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

What are the “facts” of history? What facts get omitted?

How about

It was Democrats who wanted to keep slaves before the Civil War.
It was Democrats who went to war to keep slaves.
It was Democrats who wanted to terrorize ex slaves after the war, not only killing blacks but white Republicans.
It was Democrats in 1900s that segregated bathrooms and water fountains.
It was Democrats who turn water hoses and dogs on blacks who wanted to go to school.
It was Democrats who lied about the great "SWITCH", while Joe Biden was tutored by the Klan Leader Robert Byrd.
It was Democrats who rounded up black people and put them into a one square mile housing complex called the Projects.
It was the Democrats who destroyed the nuclear family by paying black women to have babies with out a husband.
It is the Democrats who are out there destroying inner cities by burning minority businesses and murdering black people.

Nothing has changed with Demoncrats, they just lie about everything, because if they ever realized their "truth" about themselves, they would go out and kill themselves, because they are that evil.

 

[Aldo Raine]

One that stands out is immigration.

Another is in what he says here:

“I wanted to show solidarity with Black America. I wanted to explain it was okay to be simultaneously outraged by a Black man being murdered in police custody, thankful that law enforcement puts themselves in harm’s way to enable our First Amendment rights, and pissed off that criminals are treading on American values by looting and killing police officers,”


That you CAN support all of that, it doesn’t HAVE to be just one against tbe other.

Agreed, very much meaning there in very few words.
MAGA

 

[Coyote]

Who are "the moderates" and what to they stand for? Can you explain to me who could "moderate" a conflict between a rapist and a woman jogger? How about a mugger and a tourist? A 3rd world warlord and a captive about to be sold as chattel? A massive collectivist agenda and an individual who refuses to accept the idea that there are more than two genders, his property doesn't belong to him, that he has no rights to own weapons, speak freely even if it offends nearly everyone else and that no one should be able to make him wear a mask or an arm band with a Star of David on it?

That’s kind of a big basket of apples and oranges. Not every decision or action is a moral imperative or answerable in a simple right/wrong dichotamy and maybe that view is what is wrong with politics today.

In the example of a jogger attacked by a jogger, there is no moderate position, obviously, but what is the right/wrong in a debate on updating our immigration laws? (Using that as example, not to debate immigration). You have all these components:
The need for high skill workers and new talent.
The need for low skill workers.
Physical border security vs. non physical
Per the above, the rights of private land owners, environmental issues, costs vs effectiveness
Huge delays in getting their hearings, decisions, deportations
Dreamers
Drugs coming in
The length of time legal immigration takes

There is probably more but that is just off the top of my head. A moderate position would look at all those components and think “ how can I get the most bang for my buck”, what can I give on in order to get enough of what I want or the most important thing I want and come away with something. A position like you describe is all or nothing. Most of time, nothing, unless your team holds enough political power to force it. That is why we are in constant gridlock.

Have to go, will answer tbe rest when I can get back on line.

Who is the "moderate" in US politics that can "bridge the gap between "people" who prattle on about "common sense" gun control and people who retort "control your own fucking children first".


There is a RIGHT Vs. WRONG issue at stake in every argument and there can not be a grey area unless you're willing to cut a baby in half.

I notice with liberals they're happy to throw the whole baby in dumpsters or chop them up and sell them as parts and hors d'oeuvres to the most sociopathic and elitist lunatics since Caligula though.

You don't "moderate" between RIGHT Vs. WRONG. It's either WRONG to murder, steal, lie or cause harm to the innocent or it's not. When leftists create "grey" areas there the natural law of God begins to unravel and that is the ultimate natural conflict between lucifer and our Creator. The natural Laws of God and what is RIGHT has been in conflict with the agenda of EVIL, represented by lucifer.

Following the 10 simple commandments of humanity's earliest history would have saved mankind thousands of years of suffering. Everything beyond that is inane bullshit.

 

[cnm]

You progs had a chance with progressive John McCain

Can there be anything funnier?

 

[cnm]

Oh, man, this character is calling us all these names just like the leftists do??????? Well, that really stinks. I think Hurd will find that Republicans don't like being called names by a RINO anymore than we like being called Deplorables by Hillary Clinton.

No, he's telling you to not be those things. Looks like he's too late.

 

[cnm]

I looked him up. He's black, apparently, or black-Mexican. He IS Republican, however, at least on paper. I'm probably not going to like him. How about somebody who ISN'T black? Could we do that for a change?

Lol

(The third chapter of Hurd’s book, written as an open letter to the Republican Party, is titled “Don’t Be an Asshole, Racist, Misogynist, or Homophobe.”)