Henotheism and Atheism

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one can be thankful without worshiping
Can one be thankful without being obedient, respectful?

Of course.

Why does being thankful have to mean subjugating yourself to another?
It doesn't. That's a different subject. But what are you giving thanks for and who are you giving thanks to and why are you giving them thanks?

I do not have to give thanks to any person or entity to in order to feel thankful for waking up very morning.

I certainly do not have to obey anyone or anything in order to feel thankful as Meriweather implied
Ok, but that didn't answer my questions. I am not asking what you don't do. I am asking what you do do. What are you giving thanks for and who are you giving thanks to and why are you giving them thanks? I am asking you these questions because while you say you can give thanks, practically speaking you can't.
 

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.
How does a person worship?
Is believing in the existence of an unprovable entity a form of worship?
Are abstract values worthy of guarding?
Is guarding the value of abstract qualities a form of worship?

Let's just start a discussion on this.
I'll answer it here too :)

Great question. Meriweather posted her opinion on what worship means in another thread. My opinion is very similar.

The word worship comes from the word worthy as Meriweather so astutely pointed out. And I think she may have touched on worshiping is for us and not for God but I want to expound on that. Setting aside the theology that God is complete, lacking in nothing and in need of nothing - which justifies my belief that worshiping God is for us and not Him - I will approach this from a practical or natural benefit stand point. But first I have to set the stage.

Most people don't realize - or take for granted - the amazing gift we have been given. We have literally won the cosmic lottery. And that applies to each and every human being who has ever lived no matter their experiences in life. We are the pinnacle of creation. We are beings that know and create. The most complex thing that creation has produced. We get to experience existence. Existence is literally made manifest by our minds. The very fabric of what we are made out of was created out of nothing ~14 billion years ago. It's pretty incredible stuff if you stop to think about it.

And how should one show appreciation for being given such a wonderful gift? I say it is the exact same way we show appreciation for all the gifts we are given. We thank the gift giver for the gift and then show them how much we appreciate the gift by using the gift. Thus proving to the gift giver that we were worthy of receiving the gift. And that's where the benefit of worship comes in. We are happiest when we use our talents to create. Creating is supposed to be so much fun that we have to be told to take a day off from creating. I worship God by treating every act I do as a sacred act. It's sublime. No matter what the task is I see this as my way of thanking God for giving me the precious and rare gift of existence. As such I get joy and contentment from everything I do. When obstacles arise, I see it as a challenge instead of a burden. So instead of getting discouraged or pissed off I look at it as an opportunity to discover what God wanted me to learn.

There are two things that happen when one is happy; dopamine is released which gives us that happy feeling and all the learning centers of the brain switch on. That's the benefit of worshiping God.
one can be thankful without worshiping gods.
True and he will reap benefit for doing so. Being thankful is a successful behavior which naturally leads to success.
And being thankful does not require a belief in gods
Right. It requires someone to be thankful to and something to be thankful for.
 

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Why does being thankful have to mean subjugating yourself to another?
We are not talking about subjugation which means being under complete control, or enslaved, by another. Obedience, on the other hand, is about compliance even though one can choose disobedience. (One cannot be 'dis-subjugated'.)
Obeying the will of another is voluntary subjugation.
You mean like when you were a kid and your mom would tell you to go take out the trash and you did it?
 

Blues Man

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.

Says you.

Where in the bible does it say the Abrahamic god created other gods? And why does the Abrahamic god say he is jealous of other gods if he did indeed create them as you say?
I did not say God created other gods. I said there are only two options; you can worship God or you can worship created things. Like sex, drugs, money, greed, power, material possessions, etc. But most just choose to worship themselves.

Die to self. Confront reality. It's the only way to live.
And there is a third choice which is not to worship anything.

Just because you think you need to live in a black and white world doesn't mean that the world is only black and white.
Man is compulsive by nature. It's the rare person who doesn't worship something. Which is why David Foster Wallace had good reason to say we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it because of our compulsive behavior.
Bull

It is your opinion that people have to worship something.

And what gives Wallace the authority to speak for every person that exists or has ever existed on this planet?

You just happen to agree with his opinion that is all.
The Hindus believe that over multiple lifetimes man pursues pleasure, fame, fortune and power but in the end he discovers that none of those things will satisfy him because he was made for more. It seems that even the Hindus believe there is a God void that must be filled. Eventually.
I don't believe in reincarnation.

You really do like to use broad brushes don't you?
 

Blues Man

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.
How does a person worship?
Is believing in the existence of an unprovable entity a form of worship?
Are abstract values worthy of guarding?
Is guarding the value of abstract qualities a form of worship?

Let's just start a discussion on this.
I'll answer it here too :)

Great question. Meriweather posted her opinion on what worship means in another thread. My opinion is very similar.

The word worship comes from the word worthy as Meriweather so astutely pointed out. And I think she may have touched on worshiping is for us and not for God but I want to expound on that. Setting aside the theology that God is complete, lacking in nothing and in need of nothing - which justifies my belief that worshiping God is for us and not Him - I will approach this from a practical or natural benefit stand point. But first I have to set the stage.

Most people don't realize - or take for granted - the amazing gift we have been given. We have literally won the cosmic lottery. And that applies to each and every human being who has ever lived no matter their experiences in life. We are the pinnacle of creation. We are beings that know and create. The most complex thing that creation has produced. We get to experience existence. Existence is literally made manifest by our minds. The very fabric of what we are made out of was created out of nothing ~14 billion years ago. It's pretty incredible stuff if you stop to think about it.

And how should one show appreciation for being given such a wonderful gift? I say it is the exact same way we show appreciation for all the gifts we are given. We thank the gift giver for the gift and then show them how much we appreciate the gift by using the gift. Thus proving to the gift giver that we were worthy of receiving the gift. And that's where the benefit of worship comes in. We are happiest when we use our talents to create. Creating is supposed to be so much fun that we have to be told to take a day off from creating. I worship God by treating every act I do as a sacred act. It's sublime. No matter what the task is I see this as my way of thanking God for giving me the precious and rare gift of existence. As such I get joy and contentment from everything I do. When obstacles arise, I see it as a challenge instead of a burden. So instead of getting discouraged or pissed off I look at it as an opportunity to discover what God wanted me to learn.

There are two things that happen when one is happy; dopamine is released which gives us that happy feeling and all the learning centers of the brain switch on. That's the benefit of worshiping God.
one can be thankful without worshiping gods.
True and he will reap benefit for doing so. Being thankful is a successful behavior which naturally leads to success.
And being thankful does not require a belief in gods
Right. It requires someone to be thankful to and something to be thankful for.

It doesn't require someone to be thankful to.

I can simply be thankful that I opened my eyes this morning. No one was responsible for me opening my eyes.
 

Blues Man

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Why does being thankful have to mean subjugating yourself to another?
We are not talking about subjugation which means being under complete control, or enslaved, by another. Obedience, on the other hand, is about compliance even though one can choose disobedience. (One cannot be 'dis-subjugated'.)
Obeying the will of another is voluntary subjugation.
You mean like when you were a kid and your mom would tell you to go take out the trash and you did it?

Yes.

but as a child I didn't know that.

The best thing about being an adult is that you don't have to obey other people unless you choose to.
 

ding

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.

Says you.

Where in the bible does it say the Abrahamic god created other gods? And why does the Abrahamic god say he is jealous of other gods if he did indeed create them as you say?
I did not say God created other gods. I said there are only two options; you can worship God or you can worship created things. Like sex, drugs, money, greed, power, material possessions, etc. But most just choose to worship themselves.

Die to self. Confront reality. It's the only way to live.
And there is a third choice which is not to worship anything.

Just because you think you need to live in a black and white world doesn't mean that the world is only black and white.
Man is compulsive by nature. It's the rare person who doesn't worship something. Which is why David Foster Wallace had good reason to say we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it because of our compulsive behavior.
Bull

It is your opinion that people have to worship something.

And what gives Wallace the authority to speak for every person that exists or has ever existed on this planet?

You just happen to agree with his opinion that is all.
The Hindus believe that over multiple lifetimes man pursues pleasure, fame, fortune and power but in the end he discovers that none of those things will satisfy him because he was made for more. It seems that even the Hindus believe there is a God void that must be filled. Eventually.
I don't believe in reincarnation.

You really do like to use broad brushes don't you?
No one is asking you to believe in reincarnation. I was explaining how the Hindus believed we are hardwired to worship God.
 

Blues Man

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.

Says you.

Where in the bible does it say the Abrahamic god created other gods? And why does the Abrahamic god say he is jealous of other gods if he did indeed create them as you say?
I did not say God created other gods. I said there are only two options; you can worship God or you can worship created things. Like sex, drugs, money, greed, power, material possessions, etc. But most just choose to worship themselves.

Die to self. Confront reality. It's the only way to live.
And there is a third choice which is not to worship anything.

Just because you think you need to live in a black and white world doesn't mean that the world is only black and white.
Man is compulsive by nature. It's the rare person who doesn't worship something. Which is why David Foster Wallace had good reason to say we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it because of our compulsive behavior.
Bull

It is your opinion that people have to worship something.

And what gives Wallace the authority to speak for every person that exists or has ever existed on this planet?

You just happen to agree with his opinion that is all.
The Hindus believe that over multiple lifetimes man pursues pleasure, fame, fortune and power but in the end he discovers that none of those things will satisfy him because he was made for more. It seems that even the Hindus believe there is a God void that must be filled. Eventually.
I don't believe in reincarnation.

You really do like to use broad brushes don't you?
No one is asking you to believe in reincarnation. I was explaining how the Hindus believed we are hardwired to worship God.
I know what Hindus believe so I didn't need you to tell me.

And I don't believe what Hindus believe.

I think you should know that about me by now.
 

ding

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.
How does a person worship?
Is believing in the existence of an unprovable entity a form of worship?
Are abstract values worthy of guarding?
Is guarding the value of abstract qualities a form of worship?

Let's just start a discussion on this.
I'll answer it here too :)

Great question. Meriweather posted her opinion on what worship means in another thread. My opinion is very similar.

The word worship comes from the word worthy as Meriweather so astutely pointed out. And I think she may have touched on worshiping is for us and not for God but I want to expound on that. Setting aside the theology that God is complete, lacking in nothing and in need of nothing - which justifies my belief that worshiping God is for us and not Him - I will approach this from a practical or natural benefit stand point. But first I have to set the stage.

Most people don't realize - or take for granted - the amazing gift we have been given. We have literally won the cosmic lottery. And that applies to each and every human being who has ever lived no matter their experiences in life. We are the pinnacle of creation. We are beings that know and create. The most complex thing that creation has produced. We get to experience existence. Existence is literally made manifest by our minds. The very fabric of what we are made out of was created out of nothing ~14 billion years ago. It's pretty incredible stuff if you stop to think about it.

And how should one show appreciation for being given such a wonderful gift? I say it is the exact same way we show appreciation for all the gifts we are given. We thank the gift giver for the gift and then show them how much we appreciate the gift by using the gift. Thus proving to the gift giver that we were worthy of receiving the gift. And that's where the benefit of worship comes in. We are happiest when we use our talents to create. Creating is supposed to be so much fun that we have to be told to take a day off from creating. I worship God by treating every act I do as a sacred act. It's sublime. No matter what the task is I see this as my way of thanking God for giving me the precious and rare gift of existence. As such I get joy and contentment from everything I do. When obstacles arise, I see it as a challenge instead of a burden. So instead of getting discouraged or pissed off I look at it as an opportunity to discover what God wanted me to learn.

There are two things that happen when one is happy; dopamine is released which gives us that happy feeling and all the learning centers of the brain switch on. That's the benefit of worshiping God.
one can be thankful without worshiping gods.
True and he will reap benefit for doing so. Being thankful is a successful behavior which naturally leads to success.
And being thankful does not require a belief in gods
Right. It requires someone to be thankful to and something to be thankful for.

It doesn't require someone to be thankful to.

I can simply be thankful that I opened my eyes this morning. No one was responsible for me opening my eyes.
Sure it does. It's called GIVING thanks. Being thankful for receiving a gift. That's the kind that makes us happy. And happiness naturally leads to success.
 

ding

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Why does being thankful have to mean subjugating yourself to another?
We are not talking about subjugation which means being under complete control, or enslaved, by another. Obedience, on the other hand, is about compliance even though one can choose disobedience. (One cannot be 'dis-subjugated'.)
Obeying the will of another is voluntary subjugation.
You mean like when you were a kid and your mom would tell you to go take out the trash and you did it?

Yes.

but as a child I didn't know that.

The best thing about being an adult is that you don't have to obey other people unless you choose to.
You didn't know what? That your mother was subjugating you?
 

ding

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.

Says you.

Where in the bible does it say the Abrahamic god created other gods? And why does the Abrahamic god say he is jealous of other gods if he did indeed create them as you say?
I did not say God created other gods. I said there are only two options; you can worship God or you can worship created things. Like sex, drugs, money, greed, power, material possessions, etc. But most just choose to worship themselves.

Die to self. Confront reality. It's the only way to live.
And there is a third choice which is not to worship anything.

Just because you think you need to live in a black and white world doesn't mean that the world is only black and white.
Man is compulsive by nature. It's the rare person who doesn't worship something. Which is why David Foster Wallace had good reason to say we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it because of our compulsive behavior.
Bull

It is your opinion that people have to worship something.

And what gives Wallace the authority to speak for every person that exists or has ever existed on this planet?

You just happen to agree with his opinion that is all.
The Hindus believe that over multiple lifetimes man pursues pleasure, fame, fortune and power but in the end he discovers that none of those things will satisfy him because he was made for more. It seems that even the Hindus believe there is a God void that must be filled. Eventually.
I don't believe in reincarnation.

You really do like to use broad brushes don't you?
No one is asking you to believe in reincarnation. I was explaining how the Hindus believed we are hardwired to worship God.
I know what Hindus believe so I didn't need you to tell me.

And I don't believe what Hindus believe.

I think you should know that about me by now.
Other than you have a massive chip on your shoulder I don't know much about you.

But I doubt you knew that Hindus believed we are hardwired to worship God.
 
Last edited:

Blues Man

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.
How does a person worship?
Is believing in the existence of an unprovable entity a form of worship?
Are abstract values worthy of guarding?
Is guarding the value of abstract qualities a form of worship?

Let's just start a discussion on this.
I'll answer it here too :)

Great question. Meriweather posted her opinion on what worship means in another thread. My opinion is very similar.

The word worship comes from the word worthy as Meriweather so astutely pointed out. And I think she may have touched on worshiping is for us and not for God but I want to expound on that. Setting aside the theology that God is complete, lacking in nothing and in need of nothing - which justifies my belief that worshiping God is for us and not Him - I will approach this from a practical or natural benefit stand point. But first I have to set the stage.

Most people don't realize - or take for granted - the amazing gift we have been given. We have literally won the cosmic lottery. And that applies to each and every human being who has ever lived no matter their experiences in life. We are the pinnacle of creation. We are beings that know and create. The most complex thing that creation has produced. We get to experience existence. Existence is literally made manifest by our minds. The very fabric of what we are made out of was created out of nothing ~14 billion years ago. It's pretty incredible stuff if you stop to think about it.

And how should one show appreciation for being given such a wonderful gift? I say it is the exact same way we show appreciation for all the gifts we are given. We thank the gift giver for the gift and then show them how much we appreciate the gift by using the gift. Thus proving to the gift giver that we were worthy of receiving the gift. And that's where the benefit of worship comes in. We are happiest when we use our talents to create. Creating is supposed to be so much fun that we have to be told to take a day off from creating. I worship God by treating every act I do as a sacred act. It's sublime. No matter what the task is I see this as my way of thanking God for giving me the precious and rare gift of existence. As such I get joy and contentment from everything I do. When obstacles arise, I see it as a challenge instead of a burden. So instead of getting discouraged or pissed off I look at it as an opportunity to discover what God wanted me to learn.

There are two things that happen when one is happy; dopamine is released which gives us that happy feeling and all the learning centers of the brain switch on. That's the benefit of worshiping God.
one can be thankful without worshiping gods.
True and he will reap benefit for doing so. Being thankful is a successful behavior which naturally leads to success.
And being thankful does not require a belief in gods
Right. It requires someone to be thankful to and something to be thankful for.

It doesn't require someone to be thankful to.

I can simply be thankful that I opened my eyes this morning. No one was responsible for me opening my eyes.
Sure it does. It's called GIVING thanks. Being thankful for receiving a gift. That's the kind that makes us happy. And happiness naturally leads to success.

Giving thanks implies that you are responding to another entity. Being thankful can be completely internal and there need not be another entity involved.

I can have a thankful disposition without giving thanks to a specific entity.
 

ding

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.
How does a person worship?
Is believing in the existence of an unprovable entity a form of worship?
Are abstract values worthy of guarding?
Is guarding the value of abstract qualities a form of worship?

Let's just start a discussion on this.
I'll answer it here too :)

Great question. Meriweather posted her opinion on what worship means in another thread. My opinion is very similar.

The word worship comes from the word worthy as Meriweather so astutely pointed out. And I think she may have touched on worshiping is for us and not for God but I want to expound on that. Setting aside the theology that God is complete, lacking in nothing and in need of nothing - which justifies my belief that worshiping God is for us and not Him - I will approach this from a practical or natural benefit stand point. But first I have to set the stage.

Most people don't realize - or take for granted - the amazing gift we have been given. We have literally won the cosmic lottery. And that applies to each and every human being who has ever lived no matter their experiences in life. We are the pinnacle of creation. We are beings that know and create. The most complex thing that creation has produced. We get to experience existence. Existence is literally made manifest by our minds. The very fabric of what we are made out of was created out of nothing ~14 billion years ago. It's pretty incredible stuff if you stop to think about it.

And how should one show appreciation for being given such a wonderful gift? I say it is the exact same way we show appreciation for all the gifts we are given. We thank the gift giver for the gift and then show them how much we appreciate the gift by using the gift. Thus proving to the gift giver that we were worthy of receiving the gift. And that's where the benefit of worship comes in. We are happiest when we use our talents to create. Creating is supposed to be so much fun that we have to be told to take a day off from creating. I worship God by treating every act I do as a sacred act. It's sublime. No matter what the task is I see this as my way of thanking God for giving me the precious and rare gift of existence. As such I get joy and contentment from everything I do. When obstacles arise, I see it as a challenge instead of a burden. So instead of getting discouraged or pissed off I look at it as an opportunity to discover what God wanted me to learn.

There are two things that happen when one is happy; dopamine is released which gives us that happy feeling and all the learning centers of the brain switch on. That's the benefit of worshiping God.
one can be thankful without worshiping gods.
True and he will reap benefit for doing so. Being thankful is a successful behavior which naturally leads to success.
And being thankful does not require a belief in gods
Right. It requires someone to be thankful to and something to be thankful for.

It doesn't require someone to be thankful to.

I can simply be thankful that I opened my eyes this morning. No one was responsible for me opening my eyes.
Sure it does. It's called GIVING thanks. Being thankful for receiving a gift. That's the kind that makes us happy. And happiness naturally leads to success.

Giving thanks implies that you are responding to another entity. Being thankful can be completely internal and there need not be another entity involved.

I can have a thankful disposition without giving thanks to a specific entity.
So what? What does it do for you?
 

Blues Man

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Why does being thankful have to mean subjugating yourself to another?
We are not talking about subjugation which means being under complete control, or enslaved, by another. Obedience, on the other hand, is about compliance even though one can choose disobedience. (One cannot be 'dis-subjugated'.)
Obeying the will of another is voluntary subjugation.
You mean like when you were a kid and your mom would tell you to go take out the trash and you did it?

Yes.

but as a child I didn't know that.

The best thing about being an adult is that you don't have to obey other people unless you choose to.
You didn't know what? That your mother was subjugating you?
Exactly.

My mother was an addict and an addict by definition is a selfish person.

She wanted me to give in to all her demands because she was a selfish person. When i was too young to realize this I obeyed her. When I did realize it I didn't obey.

Anyone who demands obedience desires to subjugate.

But only you can decide if you want to voluntarily subjugate yourself to the demands of another.,

For example.
If you ask a person why he wants you to do anything and he says "Because I said so." and you then do it for no other reason then you have just voluntarily subjugated yourself.
 

Blues Man

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.
How does a person worship?
Is believing in the existence of an unprovable entity a form of worship?
Are abstract values worthy of guarding?
Is guarding the value of abstract qualities a form of worship?

Let's just start a discussion on this.
I'll answer it here too :)

Great question. Meriweather posted her opinion on what worship means in another thread. My opinion is very similar.

The word worship comes from the word worthy as Meriweather so astutely pointed out. And I think she may have touched on worshiping is for us and not for God but I want to expound on that. Setting aside the theology that God is complete, lacking in nothing and in need of nothing - which justifies my belief that worshiping God is for us and not Him - I will approach this from a practical or natural benefit stand point. But first I have to set the stage.

Most people don't realize - or take for granted - the amazing gift we have been given. We have literally won the cosmic lottery. And that applies to each and every human being who has ever lived no matter their experiences in life. We are the pinnacle of creation. We are beings that know and create. The most complex thing that creation has produced. We get to experience existence. Existence is literally made manifest by our minds. The very fabric of what we are made out of was created out of nothing ~14 billion years ago. It's pretty incredible stuff if you stop to think about it.

And how should one show appreciation for being given such a wonderful gift? I say it is the exact same way we show appreciation for all the gifts we are given. We thank the gift giver for the gift and then show them how much we appreciate the gift by using the gift. Thus proving to the gift giver that we were worthy of receiving the gift. And that's where the benefit of worship comes in. We are happiest when we use our talents to create. Creating is supposed to be so much fun that we have to be told to take a day off from creating. I worship God by treating every act I do as a sacred act. It's sublime. No matter what the task is I see this as my way of thanking God for giving me the precious and rare gift of existence. As such I get joy and contentment from everything I do. When obstacles arise, I see it as a challenge instead of a burden. So instead of getting discouraged or pissed off I look at it as an opportunity to discover what God wanted me to learn.

There are two things that happen when one is happy; dopamine is released which gives us that happy feeling and all the learning centers of the brain switch on. That's the benefit of worshiping God.
one can be thankful without worshiping gods.
True and he will reap benefit for doing so. Being thankful is a successful behavior which naturally leads to success.
And being thankful does not require a belief in gods
Right. It requires someone to be thankful to and something to be thankful for.

It doesn't require someone to be thankful to.

I can simply be thankful that I opened my eyes this morning. No one was responsible for me opening my eyes.
Sure it does. It's called GIVING thanks. Being thankful for receiving a gift. That's the kind that makes us happy. And happiness naturally leads to success.

Giving thanks implies that you are responding to another entity. Being thankful can be completely internal and there need not be another entity involved.

I can have a thankful disposition without giving thanks to a specific entity.
So what? What does it do for you?
It makes me more receptive to others because I expect nothing from them.
 

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Why does being thankful have to mean subjugating yourself to another?
We are not talking about subjugation which means being under complete control, or enslaved, by another. Obedience, on the other hand, is about compliance even though one can choose disobedience. (One cannot be 'dis-subjugated'.)
Obeying the will of another is voluntary subjugation.
You mean like when you were a kid and your mom would tell you to go take out the trash and you did it?

Yes.

but as a child I didn't know that.

The best thing about being an adult is that you don't have to obey other people unless you choose to.
You didn't know what? That your mother was subjugating you?
Exactly.

My mother was an addict and an addict by definition is a selfish person.

She wanted me to give in to all her demands because she was a selfish person. When i was too young to realize this I obeyed her. When I did realize it I didn't obey.

Anyone who demands obedience desires to subjugate.

But only you can decide if you want to voluntarily subjugate yourself to the demands of another.,

For example.
If you ask a person why he wants you to do anything and he says "Because I said so." and you then do it for no other reason then you have just voluntarily subjugated yourself.
Good thing you don't have any lasting issues from that. :rolleyes:
 

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Even the Abrahamic god seems to think there are other gods since he stated in the 10 Commandments that there will be no other gods before him and that he is jealous of other gods
You have two choices; you can worship the creator or you can worship the created. Those are the only two gods.
How does a person worship?
Is believing in the existence of an unprovable entity a form of worship?
Are abstract values worthy of guarding?
Is guarding the value of abstract qualities a form of worship?

Let's just start a discussion on this.
I'll answer it here too :)

Great question. Meriweather posted her opinion on what worship means in another thread. My opinion is very similar.

The word worship comes from the word worthy as Meriweather so astutely pointed out. And I think she may have touched on worshiping is for us and not for God but I want to expound on that. Setting aside the theology that God is complete, lacking in nothing and in need of nothing - which justifies my belief that worshiping God is for us and not Him - I will approach this from a practical or natural benefit stand point. But first I have to set the stage.

Most people don't realize - or take for granted - the amazing gift we have been given. We have literally won the cosmic lottery. And that applies to each and every human being who has ever lived no matter their experiences in life. We are the pinnacle of creation. We are beings that know and create. The most complex thing that creation has produced. We get to experience existence. Existence is literally made manifest by our minds. The very fabric of what we are made out of was created out of nothing ~14 billion years ago. It's pretty incredible stuff if you stop to think about it.

And how should one show appreciation for being given such a wonderful gift? I say it is the exact same way we show appreciation for all the gifts we are given. We thank the gift giver for the gift and then show them how much we appreciate the gift by using the gift. Thus proving to the gift giver that we were worthy of receiving the gift. And that's where the benefit of worship comes in. We are happiest when we use our talents to create. Creating is supposed to be so much fun that we have to be told to take a day off from creating. I worship God by treating every act I do as a sacred act. It's sublime. No matter what the task is I see this as my way of thanking God for giving me the precious and rare gift of existence. As such I get joy and contentment from everything I do. When obstacles arise, I see it as a challenge instead of a burden. So instead of getting discouraged or pissed off I look at it as an opportunity to discover what God wanted me to learn.

There are two things that happen when one is happy; dopamine is released which gives us that happy feeling and all the learning centers of the brain switch on. That's the benefit of worshiping God.
one can be thankful without worshiping gods.
True and he will reap benefit for doing so. Being thankful is a successful behavior which naturally leads to success.
And being thankful does not require a belief in gods
Right. It requires someone to be thankful to and something to be thankful for.

It doesn't require someone to be thankful to.

I can simply be thankful that I opened my eyes this morning. No one was responsible for me opening my eyes.
Sure it does. It's called GIVING thanks. Being thankful for receiving a gift. That's the kind that makes us happy. And happiness naturally leads to success.

Giving thanks implies that you are responding to another entity. Being thankful can be completely internal and there need not be another entity involved.

I can have a thankful disposition without giving thanks to a specific entity.
So what? What does it do for you?
It makes me more receptive to others because I expect nothing from them.
How does it do that? Walk me through that please.
 

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