Hegseth defends returning Confederate monument to Arlington National Cemetery

[Marener]

Clearly they did. As you can see by the fact that the South has long been reintegrated into the national fabric.

Sure. It’s not like we had 100 years of the South fighting against equal rights for black people. Hell man, are you that obtuse?

The establishment of Jim Crow was a regional thing only enpowered by the Dem party providing political cover. That was not part of the post civil war forgiveness, but a seperate political issue.

It demonstrates the lack of contrition. The south never wanted forgiveness. They never asked for forgiveness. They never admitted they were wrong.

It is one thing for you to be unhappy about history, it is another for you to pretend to be too retarded to tell two seperate things

It’s not separate at all. It’s the same white supremacist movement.

NO, it really doesn't. It clearly is about remembering fallen soldiers and their sacrifice.

The shrine honors them as heroes and says their cause was the just and moral one. That’s reality and you don’t want to talk about it.

The Jim Crow dem machine, had guns and ropes to enforce their will. THey didn't need statues in the park to scare black people.

All the same. The statute is by the people with white supremacists ideals to honor the people who fight for those same supremacist ideals.

Not my call. That was the decision of the people that fought and won the civil war.


I have no moral standing to disagree with them.

Of course you do. You just don’t want to.

 

[martybegan]

**** man, the entire white supremacy structure of the south and a lot of the rest of the country didn’t want to hold to the terms. That’s how you get monuments like this put up in 1912.

Forgiveness should only be given to the contrite. The monument doesn’t ask for forgiveness. It brags about their supremacy.

In your addled useless opinion.

 

[Marener]

In your addled useless opinion.

Did you read the inscriptions on the statue?

 

[martybegan]

In reality the KKK and like minded groups were the original insurgents of the south, fighting federal reconstruction and occupation forces. They finally won back control in all the South around the turn of the Century. That's when they started erecting the Statues and promoting the revisionist history of the Lost Cause.

That KKK died once they got power back. The 2nd KKK didn't arise until the 1920's.

 

[Marener]

That KKK died once they got power back. The 2nd KKK didn't arise until the 1920's.

The 2nd KKK came back around the time this shrine was erected.

Not actually as much of a coincidence as you’d think.

 

[Nostra]

The 2nd KKK came back around the time this shrine was erected.

Not actually as much of a coincidence as you’d think.

Did you have to get a new membership card?

 

[martybegan]

Did you read the inscriptions on the statue?

TO OUR DEAD HEROES
BY
THE UNITED DAUGHTERS
OF THE CONFEDERACY
VICTRIX CAUSA DIIS
PLACUIT SED VICTA CATONI

NOT FOR FAME OR REWARD
NOT FOR PLACE OR FOR RANK
NOT LURED BY AMBITION
OR GOADED BY NECESSITY
BUT IN SIMPLE
OBEDIENCE TO DUTY
AS THEY UNDERSTOOD IT
THESE MEN SUFFERED ALL
SACRIFICED ALL
DARED ALL — AND DIED

I simply don't see the problem.

 

[Nostra]

I simply don't see the problem.

Words scare that cupcake.

 

[martybegan]

The 2nd KKK came back around the time this shrine was erected.

Not actually as much of a coincidence as you’d think.

The 2nd KKK couldn't have "come back around", it was the 2nd KKK, not the 1st KKK.

The 2nd KKK added in Catholics and Immigrants to the mix, it was more WASP backlash than what the original KKK was.

 

[Marener]

I simply don't see the problem.

one, calling them heroes. Why do heroes need forgiveness.

Two, did you read this:
VICTRIX CAUSA DIIS
PLACUIT SED VICTA CATONI

It means something. Do you know what?

 

[Nostra]

one, calling them heroes. Why do heroes need forgiveness.

Two, did you read this:
VICTRIX CAUSA DIIS
PLACUIT SED VICTA CATONI

It means something. Do you know what?

BOO!
















Now go change your Depends, Buttercup.

 

[martybegan]

one, calling them heroes. Why do heroes need forgiveness.

Two, did you read this:
VICTRIX CAUSA DIIS
PLACUIT SED VICTA CATONI

It means something. Do you know what?

yes, I read it. again, this was done by the children and grandchildren of those who fought and died.

and the people that beat them were OK with it.

 

[BlindBoo]

That KKK died once they got power back. The 2nd KKK didn't arise until the 1920's.

They didn't die, they became the state and local government officials after they won.

 

[Marener]

yes, I read it. again, this was done by the children and grandchildren of those who fought and died.

and the people that beat them were OK with it.

Do you know what that phrase means?

 

[Correll]

Sure. It’s not like we had 100 years of the South fighting against equal rights for black people. Hell man, are you that obtuse?

Irrelevant to the way the south was reintegrated into national life and the national culture.

Lord knows that northern dems had no problem working with southern dems, in their political alliance, across regional boundries.

So, good for them, buidling bridges.

It demonstrates the lack of contrition. The south never wanted forgiveness. They never asked for forgiveness. They never admitted they were wrong.

There is nothing about wanting to oppress blacks that implies that you want to be a seperate nation from America.

Your words are clearly false. It seems you aren't really even trying to make real arguments, you are just spamming negs.

It’s not separate at all. It’s the same white supremacist movement.

That's you seeing everything though a modern lens. Clearly the nation as a whole, especially the vets who fought and won the war against the Confederacy, didn't share your view.

So.... yeah.

The shrine honors them as heroes and says their cause was the just and moral one. That’s reality and you don’t want to talk about it.

Americans traditional don't require our defeated foes to crawl on their bellies in submission.

Your commie desire to make everything a "struggle session" so you can enforce politcial conformity with the Party Line,

is a you problem, not an America problem.

All the same. The statute is by the people with white supremacists ideals to honor the people who fight for those same supremacist ideals.

The way you can ignore generations of time, massive differences in policy and political goals, and just focus on race,

is you being a fool.

Of course you do. You just don’t want to.

Nope. The people that paid teh price for the defeat of the Confederacy, were clearly fine with this outcome.

To come back on it now and to try to renege on that forgiveness, is... morally indefensible.

 

[Zincwarrior]

The inscription on the statute implies that the confederacy had the proper moral cause in the war.

Which is to enslave people.

It’s a memorial to white supremacy.

Can visitors stop and take a dump on it?

 

[martybegan]

They didn't die, became the state and local government officials after they won.

they didn't need it then.

Blame Booth for why reconstruction failed.

 

[Correll]

That KKK died once they got power back. The 2nd KKK didn't arise until the 1920's.

Libs just say stupid shit. When you point out that they are wrong, they don't understand.

THe shit they said, allowed them to spam a neg at taht time.

Proving them wrong, will just force them to spam a different neg and tehn work around to the debunked neg, later.

 

[martybegan]

Do you know what that phrase means?

The "lost "cause"

Yep. They key part is, they lost.

 

[Marener]

Irrelevant to the way the south was reintegrated into national life and the national culture.

Lord knows that northern dems had no problem working with southern dems, in their political alliance, across regional boundries.

So, good for them, buidling bridges.

Very relevant, you just don’t want to admit it.

There is nothing about wanting to oppress blacks that implies that you want to be a seperate nation from America.

Your words are clearly false. It seems you aren't really even trying to make real arguments, you are just spamming negs.

Suppressing blacks was the goal. They’d do it as part of America if they could.

That's you seeing everything though a modern lens. Clearly the nation as a whole, especially the vets who fought and won the war against the Confederacy, didn't share your view.

So.... yeah.

I have the benefit of retrospect, and can tell this statue isn’t about reconciliation but about keeping alive the sentiment that caused the civil war.

Americans traditional don't require our defeated foes to crawl on their bellies in submission.

Your commie desire to make everything a "struggle session" so you can enforce politcial conformity with the Party Line,

is a you problem, not an America problem.

We aren’t asking for submission. We are asking that the south recognize their error, which they clearly don’t. How can there be reconciliation if the fundamental issue isn’t resolved?

The way you can ignore generations of time, massive differences in policy and political goals, and just focus on race,

is you being a fool.

Pretending it isn’t about race is ignorant.

Nope. The people that paid teh price for the defeat of the Confederacy, were clearly fine with this outcome.

To come back on it now and to try to renege on that forgiveness, is... morally indefensible.

The statute isn’t about forgiveness. Not one iota.

This statute doesn’t admit they were wrong. It boasts they were right. They just happened to lose anyway.