Heated disagreement breaks out in Situation Room over hydroxychloroquine, Navarro vs Fauci

[rich stacy]

Published February 1, 2020
China slams Trump's coronavirus travel limits: 'Not a gesture of goodwill'
By Joe McDonald, Sam McNeil | Associated Press
[...]
On Friday, the United States declared a public health emergency and President Donald Trump and an order barring entry to foreign nationals, other than immediate family of American citizens and permanent residents, who visited China within the last 14 days, which scientists say is the virus’s longest incubation period.

I believe those exceptions, allowed 40,000 people in from China.

If just one out of a hundred were infected, that's enough to launch the pandemic within the US.

 

[Rigby5]

I cannot believe the amount of ignorance displayed in this thread.

Hydroxychloroquinine and chloroquinine are not the same thing. Isn't there some sort of reading comprehension assumed?

Medicine is practiced by physicians. Medications are developed by medical scientists and compounded by pharmacists. Opinions of partisan hacks are irrelevant, except that they can cause people to shy away from useful actions. The Governors of Michigan and Nevada have threatened physicians who prescribe hydroxychloroquinine to their patients. Both should be arrested for practicing medicine without a license.

A list of potential side-effects is written by lawyers, not scientists. The likely side effects of plaquenil are few and hardly dangerous. Even the most common side-effects (most common does not mean likely) aren't particularly problematic.

I've already said this, try to read this time: In science, anecdotal evidence is any evidence not derived from a controlled study. In quantity, it is very helpful.

Of course the immune system is what will defeat COVID-19. Yes, hydroxychloroquinine will depress a part of the immune response. The two statements are not mutually exclusive. In those most vulnerable to the infection, the greatest single risk is the cytokine storm triggered by the immune system. It literally stops the lungs from functioning. Plaquenil dampens the cytokine storm while allowing the other parts of the immune system to kill the virus. Were I still practicine medicine I would do an exam of the eyes and listen to the heart beat, and if the patient were still sufficiently ill to need hospitalization, probably prescribe plaquenil.

For a detailed discussion I would recommend my patient talk to a pharmacist. That is because the pharmacist has ready access to more information than most physicians, such as the latest studies and literature.

On balance, I would rather my president tell me there is hope instead of telling me how stupid members of the opposing party are, or we are all doomed. The first (stupid) is self-evident, the second (doom) is wrong.

YES, that is the point.
That you ONLY want hydroxychloroquinine AFTER the infection has reached the point where the immune system of the body is causing more harm than good.
Taking it before that, without a prescription, will cause harm because it will make it more likely to let a COVID-19 infection get started.

But I do not agree one should talk to a pharmacist about this because understanding the timing of when to use hydroxychloroquinine requires personal knowledge of COVID-19, not just hydroxychloroquinine in general.

 

[Rigby5]

I cannot believe the amount of ignorance displayed in this thread.

Hydroxychloroquinine and chloroquinine are not the same thing. Isn't there some sort of reading comprehension assumed?

Medicine is practiced by physicians. Medications are developed by medical scientists and ...

Hydroxychloroquinine and chloroquinine are different delivery forms of the same thing.
They have the same use and effects.
The difference is that Hydroxychloroquinine is not as harsh on the liver and retina.

 

[Rigby5]

A list of potential side-effects is written by lawyers, not scientists.

Madeup nonsense

Hydroxychloroquinine and chloroquinine are not the same thing.

But both are anti viral drugs, and both are undergoing trials to treat covid-19. Didn't know that, did ya? Nope.

The likely side effects of plaquenil are few and hardly dangerous.

False. In the doses that would be used to treat covid-19 patients, they can make people very ill.

Thanks for stopping by to take a crap in the thread.

It is not just that Hydroxychloroquinine can have dangerous side effects, but that if you do not yet have a case of COVID-19, then taking Hydroxychloroquinine will increase your chances of getting infected.

 

[Dr Grump]

Actually, asshole, it came from ME, based on research I've been linked to by many people. I don't even know where these "pressers" are you talk about, but apparerntly YOU FOLLOW THEM CLOSELY! Do tell us what nations have better contained the virus than us adjusted for a population of 340 million?

South Korea. Australia. New Zealand, Switzerland, Germany. Just off the top of my head.

Bullshit, just talk unless you have some documentation to back all of that up.

COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[lennypartiv]

The Chinese lied to Trump and the rest of the world. Trump did nothing wrong.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Trump dithered.
Americans withered...and died.

Stop your bullshit, once again the libtards fought against trumps travel ban, **** face

A travel ban is meaningless when we have the most infected in the world.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

A memo from Peter Navarro said failure to contain a coronavirus outbreak could lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses. It is the most direct warning known to have circulated at a key moment among top administration officials.

Trade Adviser Warned White House in January of Risks of a Pandemic (Published 2020)

A memo from Peter Navarro is the most direct warning known to have circulated at a key moment among top administration officials.

www.nytimes.com

I wonder if Navarro himself leaked the memo. It makes him look pretty damn good while it makes Trump look asleep at the wheel, doing nothing to guard the country against this deadly virus despite warnings.

Apparently no one else in the world got that memo because so far no country on the planet has contained the virus better than us. Hey, I sent out a memo years ago that failure to stop the next Earth impacting asteroid could lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses. Now it is just a matter of waiting for the asteroid to prove me true. Shame on YOU for not being prepared. You were WARNED.

Apparently no one else in the world got that memo because so far no country on the planet has contained the virus better than us.

Contained?
We have the most infected on the planet, dope.

 

[Markle]

And the CDC was offered to help on January 6th...

Hmmm, does anyone follow timelines or are people ignoring the fact the WHO informed the U.S. on December 31st 2019 and on January 6th 2020 CDC was offered to help and that memo was weeks later...

Hmmmmm...yeah, about that.

Published February 1, 2020
China slams Trump's coronavirus travel limits: 'Not a gesture of goodwill'
By Joe McDonald, Sam McNeil | Associated Press
[...]
On Friday, the United States declared a public health emergency and President Donald Trump and an order barring entry to foreign nationals, other than immediate family of American citizens and permanent residents, who visited China within the last 14 days, which scientists say is the virus’s longest incubation period.

'Unfriendly comments'
China criticized the U.S. controls, which it said contradicted the WHO’s appeal to avoid travel bans, and “unfriendly comments” that Beijing was failing to cooperate.

“Just as the WHO recommended against travel restrictions, the U.S. rushed to go in the opposite way. Certainly not a gesture of goodwill,” said foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying.

WHO Secretary-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said in Geneva that despite the emergency declaration, there is “no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade.”
[...]
China slams Trump's coronavirus travel limits: 'Not a gesture of goodwill'
China slams Trump's coronavirus travel limits: 'Not a gesture of goodwill'

That was China and the WHO stupidity and Trump did the correct course of action...

Also let remember those like Bill de Blasio was telling his residents of New York City to stay home if sick but the rest wash your hands, social distance yourself and get a flu shot and go on with your daily routine if healthy while more or less mocking Trump travel ban...

Why Public Health Experts Say Trump's Travel Ban Won't Curb the Spread of COVID-19 in the U.S.

Why Public Health Experts Say Trump's Travel Ban Won't Curb the Spread of COVID-19 in the U.S.

President Donald Trump announced on Wednesday night that travel from Europe to the U.S. will be largely suspended for 30 days starting Friday in an...

time.com

Travel bans can't stop this pandemic

Travel bans can’t stop this pandemic

Now is the time to apply known procedures for controlling contagious disease rather than adopting knee-jerk policies such as a travel ban. Policies that put data to work will ultimately be more eff…

thehill.com

Your sources are a month old.

NO ONE has said that travel bans will STOP the virus. That's not the goal, the goal is to slow the spread of the virus, which it has done.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

And the CDC was offered to help on January 6th...

Hmmm, does anyone follow timelines or are people ignoring the fact the WHO informed the U.S. on December 31st 2019 and on January 6th 2020 CDC was offered to help and that memo was weeks later...

Hmmmmm...yeah, about that.

Published February 1, 2020
China slams Trump's coronavirus travel limits: 'Not a gesture of goodwill'
By Joe McDonald, Sam McNeil | Associated Press
[...]
On Friday, the United States declared a public health emergency and President Donald Trump and an order barring entry to foreign nationals, other than immediate family of American citizens and permanent residents, who visited China within the last 14 days, which scientists say is the virus’s longest incubation period.

'Unfriendly comments'
China criticized the U.S. controls, which it said contradicted the WHO’s appeal to avoid travel bans, and “unfriendly comments” that Beijing was failing to cooperate.

“Just as the WHO recommended against travel restrictions, the U.S. rushed to go in the opposite way. Certainly not a gesture of goodwill,” said foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying.

WHO Secretary-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said in Geneva that despite the emergency declaration, there is “no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade.”
[...]
China slams Trump's coronavirus travel limits: 'Not a gesture of goodwill'
China slams Trump's coronavirus travel limits: 'Not a gesture of goodwill'

That was China and the WHO stupidity and Trump did the correct course of action...

Also let remember those like Bill de Blasio was telling his residents of New York City to stay home if sick but the rest wash your hands, social distance yourself and get a flu shot and go on with your daily routine if healthy while more or less mocking Trump travel ban...

Why Public Health Experts Say Trump's Travel Ban Won't Curb the Spread of COVID-19 in the U.S.

Why Public Health Experts Say Trump's Travel Ban Won't Curb the Spread of COVID-19 in the U.S.

President Donald Trump announced on Wednesday night that travel from Europe to the U.S. will be largely suspended for 30 days starting Friday in an...

time.com

Travel bans can't stop this pandemic

Travel bans can’t stop this pandemic

Now is the time to apply known procedures for controlling contagious disease rather than adopting knee-jerk policies such as a travel ban. Policies that put data to work will ultimately be more eff…

thehill.com

Your sources are a month old.

NO ONE has said that travel bans will STOP the virus. That's not the goal, the goal is to slow the spread of the virus, which it has done.

Slow the spread?
Our number of infected is more than double that of the next highest nation and we started later than them. Get real.

 

[MarcATL]

That sounded way better in your head, didn't it?

I bet it did...

 

[Markle]

Contained?
We have to most infected on the planet, dope.

Is that the most deaths? NO. Is your claim based on the number of infected per 100,000 population? Nothing else means anything, does it?

Are you so gullible as to believe the figures given out by China? Really? How cute!

Wuhan Residents Dismiss Official Coronavirus Death Toll: ‘The Incinerators Have Been Working Around the Clock’
By TOBIAS HOONHOUT

Wuhan residents are increasingly skeptical of the Chinese Communist Party’s reported coronavirus death count of approximately 2,500 deaths in the city to date, with most people believing the actual number is at least 40,000.

“Maybe the authorities are gradually releasing the real figures, intentionally or unintentionally, so that people will gradually come to accept the reality,” a Wuhan resident, who gave only his surname Mao, told Radio Free Asia.

[...]

The city began lifting its lockdown on Saturday after two months of mandatory shutdown, with a complete lift of restrictions set for April 8. Funeral homes in Wuhan have been handing out the cremated remains to families every day, but rumors began circulating after one funeral home received two shipments of 5,000 urns over the course of two days, according to photos reported by Chinese media outlet Caixin, which were later censored.

Reports of the funeral’s crematoriums working nonstop also raised questions.

“It can’t be right … because the incinerators have been working round the clock, so how can so few people have died?” a man surnamed Zhang told RFA.

Wuhan residents said the government was paying families 3,000 yuan for “funeral allowances” in exchange for silence.

Wuhan Residents Dismiss Official Coronavirus Death Toll: ‘The Incinerators Have Been Working Around the Clock’ | National Review

Wuhan residents are increasingly skeptical of the official coronavirus death count of 2,500, with most people believing the actual number is at least 40,000.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Markle]

Slow the spread?
Our number of infected is more than double that of the next highest nation and we started later than them. Get real.

As I said, the only figures that matter are the Deaths/1M pop, which I have provided for you along with the link so you will not continue to be so ignorant of the subject.

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per 1M Population | RealClearPolitics

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per Population | RealClearPolitics

www.realclearpolitics.com

Do you actually believe the figures coming out of China, Iran, and others? How quaint!

 

[lennypartiv]

Contained?
We have the most infected on the planet, dope.

We've contained it where it counts. Very few cases in Montana, Wyoming, Nebraska, and the Dakotas.

 

[AntonToo]

A memo from Peter Navarro said failure to contain a coronavirus outbreak could lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses. It is the most direct warning known to have circulated at a key moment among top administration officials.

Trade Adviser Warned White House in January of Risks of a Pandemic (Published 2020)

A memo from Peter Navarro is the most direct warning known to have circulated at a key moment among top administration officials.

www.nytimes.com

[/URL]
I wonder if Navarro himself leaked the memo. It makes him look pretty damn good while it makes Trump look asleep at the wheel, doing nothing to guard the country against this deadly virus despite warnings.

Yep....Trump is doing nothing.......just like Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Barack H. Obama....umm....ummm...ummmmm

Thats true, in Trump's White House the buck stops with Obama.

 

[mudwhistle]

A memo from Peter Navarro said failure to contain a coronavirus outbreak could lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses. It is the most direct warning known to have circulated at a key moment among top administration officials.

Trade Adviser Warned White House in January of Risks of a Pandemic (Published 2020)

A memo from Peter Navarro is the most direct warning known to have circulated at a key moment among top administration officials.

www.nytimes.com

[/URL]
I wonder if Navarro himself leaked the memo. It makes him look pretty damn good while it makes Trump look asleep at the wheel, doing nothing to guard the country against this deadly virus despite warnings.

Yep....Trump is doing nothing.......just like Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Barack H. Obama....umm....ummm...ummmmm

Thats true, in Trump's White House the buck stops with Obama.

And in the Obama White House.....the buck always stopped with somebody else.....never with Obama.
The prick didn't answer questions at a press conference for his first year in office.
Never mind the fact that the press was kissing his ass and still does today.

 

[lennypartiv]

The revelation of Navarro's memo is just the latest documented proof Trump was warned repeatedly about the effect the virus could have................but did virtually nothing until it was too late.

What did Joe and Bernie do? What did Pocahontas do?

 

[JoeB131]

Then why did Dimms say a travel ban was racist?

Because it was..

 

[Norman]

Trump played the situation better than pretty much entire rest of the world. It would have helped if democrats weren't screaming "RACIST", as he planned to close down the borders.

 

[basquebromance]

“China has become the world's prime breeding ground for new and exotic strains of influenza and other viruses, including both the deadly SARS virus and avian flu.“ - Peter Navarro in His Book The Coming China Wars (2006)