Heated disagreement breaks out in Situation Room over hydroxychloroquine, Navarro vs Fauci

[Redfish]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

 

[Redfish]

A list of potential side-effects is written by lawyers, not scientists.

Madeup nonsense

Hydroxychloroquinine and chloroquinine are not the same thing.

But both are anti viral drugs, and both are undergoing trials to treat covid-19. Didn't know that, did ya? Nope.

The likely side effects of plaquenil are few and hardly dangerous.

False. In the doses that would be used to treat covid-19 patients, they can make people very ill.

Thanks for stopping by to take a crap in the thread.

It is not just that Hydroxychloroquinine can have dangerous side effects, but that if you do not yet have a case of COVID-19, then taking Hydroxychloroquinine will increase your chances of getting infected.

according to who?

 

[colfax_m]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

 

[Redfish]

I know this much, Navarro has been a hawk on China, well ahead of the game in terms of what threat they pose to the world. The guy I probably most trust in his administration to stay the course on confronting abusers of America.

Fauci, has been getting sunshine shined up his behind by CNN in particular for some time. This article was co-written by that guy in high school who I would expect to rat someone out to the teacher if he heard them curse in gym class, Jim Acosta. I think Fauci seeks the spotlight too often and he is a little too sure of himself for my tastes for this type of situation with many unknowns. I'm glad when Trump calls him out about wanting to shut the country down for 2 years, I think it's an odd, broad position to take considering how some states are far less impacted by this virus than others.

Heated disagreement breaks out in Situation Room over hydroxychloroquine

(CNN)There was a heated disagreement in the Situation Room this weekend over the efficacy of the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine -- but multiple sources say it was mostly one-sided, as President Donald Trump's top trade adviser Peter Navarro feuded with other officials over the drug's unproven effectiveness to treat coronavirus.

The debate is not a new one inside the coronavirus task force -- and medical experts have repeatedly explained to the President that there is a risk in enthusiastically touting hydroxychloroquine in case the drug doesn't ultimately work to combat the virus. But other aides and outside advisers have sided with Trump, including Navarro, who is still not a formal part of the task force but has wedged himself into the meetings.

Axios first reported on the disagreement inside the White House about the drug.

While discussing the latest on hydroxychloroquine this weekend, an exasperated Navarro lashed out at Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the advisers who has urged caution about the drug, a person familiar with the meeting told CNN.

Fauci's been good to have in our corner but OTOH reminds me of that saying "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail". He's too insular. Trump is wise to bring other people in and listen.

Yeah, let's listen to what the economist has to say over the health care professional with over 50 years experience during a pandemic.

Yeah, let's stay in our houses like hermits for two years. Brilliant plan. There will be NO viruses left likely, but also, no economy. And no America.

Great idea. Brilliant.

That's exactly what The VOR asshole would LOVE to see happen if it would destroy President Trump.

You're an idiot. But hey, when it comes to YOUR health, if you want to trust in an economist for your well-being, knock yourself out.

Personally, I'll side with the medical professionals when it comes to my health during this pandemic, and I'll do my best taking precautions to prevent myself from contracting this virus from some stupid fuck like you.

And one more thing assholes --- you and sue --- nobody said anything about staying in their homes without coming out for two years. That's just more of the loads of bullshit you idiots invent.

It truly is amazing how fucking stupid you retards are.

If Fauci a medical professional? He said he would take it if he had the virus.

Sorry, but you aren't making any sense. Learn English and then get back to me.

Of you get corvid will you refuse this drug?

Yes, because it wouldn't be prescribed by a medical professional. You on the other hand would take it because trump and an economist told you to, LOL. Good luck.

Who told you that it wouldn't be prescribed by a medical professional?

Are you telling me doctors are currently prescribing hydroxychloroquine for covid-19?

Of course they are. Who told you that they weren't?

Doctors are prescribing it for covid-19? Link me to that. There haven't even been clinical trials for this drug as a treatment for covid-19.

LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19

Fuck that. If you want to be a lab rat, go right ahead, not me.

This drug has been in use since 1955 in the US. Anybody with this virus right now should take this. Most with common sense would.

Since 1955 as a treatment for malaria.

Then tell me, why aren't all doctors across the country prescribing this covid-19 wonder drug? Let me guess, either none of them have "common sense" or they are all members of the deep state trying to harm trump's reelection.

This is used routinely by rheumatolgists for treating arthritis. It is hardly a risky drug. It is marketed under the name Plaquenil. Read the link below from the Arthritis foundation.

"...the sudden high demand comes from people and clinics that want to use hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 prevention or treatment, although the drug is not approved for either indication, and there is limited evidence to support its use in COVID-19. Researchers are preparing to launch rigorous studies of its safety and effectiveness. Despite that, people and clinicians are putting their hope in hydroxychloroquine (and chloroquine, a closely related drug). "

In other words, they are prescribing it. Some don't want it to be the answer for obvious reasons.

Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) Shortage Causing Concern | Arthritis Foundation

TDS morons won't do anything unless Adolph Schiffler tells them to do it.

You're calling the rest of the world "morons" for refusing to use an untested and dangerous drug, on the advice of a failed economist and a realty TV show host, and which the DOCTORS and INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALISTS on staff are advising against.

That is cult of personality at its finest.

you are totally FOS. The drug has been around for over 50 years and has been tested extensively. It is used on malaria and lupus and works. Calling it an untested and dangerous drug is just plain ignorant.

the real reason the dems and their funders in big pharma are fighting it is because it is available and CHBEAP. so no new patents for the drug companies and no obscene profits, and no massive funding flowing from pharma to the dems.

Wake the fuck up, thats what is really going on here.

It is untested for THIS use. Just like you shouldn't take heart medication for heartburn, you don't take a malaria drug for COVID. It has to be tested to ensure the drug doesn't act negatively with the symptoms or other treatments.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful but "try it, what have you got to lose" is irresponsible and stupid. What you "have to lose" is your life. That'd just be "Survival of the fittest" though and you support that right?

Untested for this use? I've seen articles linked all over this forum that show thousands of people have taken this drug for covid and the drug worked. Lefties are fighting this drug for partisan reasons, but they are on the losing side of this one.

Nobody is "fighting" it. Everyone hopes it will work. It has to be tested first. Trump is being irresponsible as usual in his rush to " open America back up".

Go slow to go fast.

People are dying today as I type this. If this drug can save some of them, they should be allowed to use it if recommended by their doctor.

the side affects are well known, it has been around for over 50 years and has gone generic. And thats the real reason the dems are fighting it, their big pharma funders cannot make billions off of a generic drug.

 

[Redfish]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Then why did Dimms say a travel ban was racist?

Because it was..

But now the Dimms insist Trump didn’t act fast enough with a travel ban.

 

[colfax_m]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

Oh. So it’s a hoax, is that what you’re saying?

Man, when you guys get on a talking point, it’s everywhere in an instant. Y’all really are a cohesive group of thinkers.

 

[Redfish]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

Oh. So it’s a hoax, is that what you’re saying?

Man, when you guys get on a talking point, it’s everywhere in an instant. Y’all really are a cohesive group of thinkers.

neither Trump or anyone else has ever called the virus a hoax STOP LYING ABOUT THIS.

What was and is a hoax is the dems attempts to use the virus as a political weapon, The dems don't give a shit about YOU or any american citizen. All they want is power to ram their socialist bullshit up our collective asses. Wake the fuck up, moron.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I know this much, Navarro has been a hawk on China, well ahead of the game in terms of what threat they pose to the world. The guy I probably most trust in his administration to stay the course on confronting abusers of America.

Fauci, has been getting sunshine shined up his behind by CNN in particular for some time. This article was co-written by that guy in high school who I would expect to rat someone out to the teacher if he heard them curse in gym class, Jim Acosta. I think Fauci seeks the spotlight too often and he is a little too sure of himself for my tastes for this type of situation with many unknowns. I'm glad when Trump calls him out about wanting to shut the country down for 2 years, I think it's an odd, broad position to take considering how some states are far less impacted by this virus than others.

Heated disagreement breaks out in Situation Room over hydroxychloroquine

(CNN)There was a heated disagreement in the Situation Room this weekend over the efficacy of the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine -- but multiple sources say it was mostly one-sided, as President Donald Trump's top trade adviser Peter Navarro feuded with other officials over the drug's unproven effectiveness to treat coronavirus.

The debate is not a new one inside the coronavirus task force -- and medical experts have repeatedly explained to the President that there is a risk in enthusiastically touting hydroxychloroquine in case the drug doesn't ultimately work to combat the virus. But other aides and outside advisers have sided with Trump, including Navarro, who is still not a formal part of the task force but has wedged himself into the meetings.

Axios first reported on the disagreement inside the White House about the drug.

While discussing the latest on hydroxychloroquine this weekend, an exasperated Navarro lashed out at Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the advisers who has urged caution about the drug, a person familiar with the meeting told CNN.

Fauci's been good to have in our corner but OTOH reminds me of that saying "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail". He's too insular. Trump is wise to bring other people in and listen.

Yeah, let's listen to what the economist has to say over the health care professional with over 50 years experience during a pandemic.

Yeah, let's stay in our houses like hermits for two years. Brilliant plan. There will be NO viruses left likely, but also, no economy. And no America.

Great idea. Brilliant.

That's exactly what The VOR asshole would LOVE to see happen if it would destroy President Trump.

You're an idiot. But hey, when it comes to YOUR health, if you want to trust in an economist for your well-being, knock yourself out.

Personally, I'll side with the medical professionals when it comes to my health during this pandemic, and I'll do my best taking precautions to prevent myself from contracting this virus from some stupid fuck like you.

And one more thing assholes --- you and sue --- nobody said anything about staying in their homes without coming out for two years. That's just more of the loads of bullshit you idiots invent.

It truly is amazing how fucking stupid you retards are.

If Fauci a medical professional? He said he would take it if he had the virus.

Sorry, but you aren't making any sense. Learn English and then get back to me.

Of you get corvid will you refuse this drug?

Yes, because it wouldn't be prescribed by a medical professional. You on the other hand would take it because trump and an economist told you to, LOL. Good luck.

Who told you that it wouldn't be prescribed by a medical professional?

Are you telling me doctors are currently prescribing hydroxychloroquine for covid-19?

Of course they are. Who told you that they weren't?

Doctors are prescribing it for covid-19? Link me to that. There haven't even been clinical trials for this drug as a treatment for covid-19.

LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19

Fuck that. If you want to be a lab rat, go right ahead, not me.

This drug has been in use since 1955 in the US. Anybody with this virus right now should take this. Most with common sense would.

Since 1955 as a treatment for malaria.

Then tell me, why aren't all doctors across the country prescribing this covid-19 wonder drug? Let me guess, either none of them have "common sense" or they are all members of the deep state trying to harm trump's reelection.

This is used routinely by rheumatolgists for treating arthritis. It is hardly a risky drug. It is marketed under the name Plaquenil. Read the link below from the Arthritis foundation.

"...the sudden high demand comes from people and clinics that want to use hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 prevention or treatment, although the drug is not approved for either indication, and there is limited evidence to support its use in COVID-19. Researchers are preparing to launch rigorous studies of its safety and effectiveness. Despite that, people and clinicians are putting their hope in hydroxychloroquine (and chloroquine, a closely related drug). "

In other words, they are prescribing it. Some don't want it to be the answer for obvious reasons.

Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) Shortage Causing Concern | Arthritis Foundation

TDS morons won't do anything unless Adolph Schiffler tells them to do it.

You're calling the rest of the world "morons" for refusing to use an untested and dangerous drug, on the advice of a failed economist and a realty TV show host, and which the DOCTORS and INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALISTS on staff are advising against.

That is cult of personality at its finest.

you are totally FOS. The drug has been around for over 50 years and has been tested extensively. It is used on malaria and lupus and works. Calling it an untested and dangerous drug is just plain ignorant.

the real reason the dems and their funders in big pharma are fighting it is because it is available and CHBEAP. so no new patents for the drug companies and no obscene profits, and no massive funding flowing from pharma to the dems.

Wake the fuck up, thats what is really going on here.

It is untested for THIS use. Just like you shouldn't take heart medication for heartburn, you don't take a malaria drug for COVID. It has to be tested to ensure the drug doesn't act negatively with the symptoms or other treatments.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful but "try it, what have you got to lose" is irresponsible and stupid. What you "have to lose" is your life. That'd just be "Survival of the fittest" though and you support that right?

Untested for this use? I've seen articles linked all over this forum that show thousands of people have taken this drug for covid and the drug worked. Lefties are fighting this drug for partisan reasons, but they are on the losing side of this one.

Nobody is "fighting" it. Everyone hopes it will work. It has to be tested first. Trump is being irresponsible as usual in his rush to " open America back up".

Go slow to go fast.

People are dying today as I type this. If this drug can save some of them, they should be allowed to use it if recommended by their doctor.

the side affects are well known, it has been around for over 50 years and has gone generic. And thats the real reason the dems are fighting it, their big pharma funders cannot make billions off of a generic drug.

It's less than that. Let's say this combo drug is found to be very effective for half of the victims. It's something the President promoted. Medical experts conclude our problem severely decrease because of these combination drugs, and then the President gets all the credit.

 

[Redfish]

I know this much, Navarro has been a hawk on China, well ahead of the game in terms of what threat they pose to the world. The guy I probably most trust in his administration to stay the course on confronting abusers of America.

Fauci, has been getting sunshine shined up his behind by CNN in particular for some time. This article was co-written by that guy in high school who I would expect to rat someone out to the teacher if he heard them curse in gym class, Jim Acosta. I think Fauci seeks the spotlight too often and he is a little too sure of himself for my tastes for this type of situation with many unknowns. I'm glad when Trump calls him out about wanting to shut the country down for 2 years, I think it's an odd, broad position to take considering how some states are far less impacted by this virus than others.

Heated disagreement breaks out in Situation Room over hydroxychloroquine

(CNN)There was a heated disagreement in the Situation Room this weekend over the efficacy of the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine -- but multiple sources say it was mostly one-sided, as President Donald Trump's top trade adviser Peter Navarro feuded with other officials over the drug's unproven effectiveness to treat coronavirus.

The debate is not a new one inside the coronavirus task force -- and medical experts have repeatedly explained to the President that there is a risk in enthusiastically touting hydroxychloroquine in case the drug doesn't ultimately work to combat the virus. But other aides and outside advisers have sided with Trump, including Navarro, who is still not a formal part of the task force but has wedged himself into the meetings.

Axios first reported on the disagreement inside the White House about the drug.

While discussing the latest on hydroxychloroquine this weekend, an exasperated Navarro lashed out at Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the advisers who has urged caution about the drug, a person familiar with the meeting told CNN.

Fauci's been good to have in our corner but OTOH reminds me of that saying "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail". He's too insular. Trump is wise to bring other people in and listen.

Yeah, let's listen to what the economist has to say over the health care professional with over 50 years experience during a pandemic.

Yeah, let's stay in our houses like hermits for two years. Brilliant plan. There will be NO viruses left likely, but also, no economy. And no America.

Great idea. Brilliant.

That's exactly what The VOR asshole would LOVE to see happen if it would destroy President Trump.

You're an idiot. But hey, when it comes to YOUR health, if you want to trust in an economist for your well-being, knock yourself out.

Personally, I'll side with the medical professionals when it comes to my health during this pandemic, and I'll do my best taking precautions to prevent myself from contracting this virus from some stupid fuck like you.

And one more thing assholes --- you and sue --- nobody said anything about staying in their homes without coming out for two years. That's just more of the loads of bullshit you idiots invent.

It truly is amazing how fucking stupid you retards are.

If Fauci a medical professional? He said he would take it if he had the virus.

Sorry, but you aren't making any sense. Learn English and then get back to me.

Of you get corvid will you refuse this drug?

Yes, because it wouldn't be prescribed by a medical professional. You on the other hand would take it because trump and an economist told you to, LOL. Good luck.

Who told you that it wouldn't be prescribed by a medical professional?

Are you telling me doctors are currently prescribing hydroxychloroquine for covid-19?

Of course they are. Who told you that they weren't?

Doctors are prescribing it for covid-19? Link me to that. There haven't even been clinical trials for this drug as a treatment for covid-19.

LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19

Fuck that. If you want to be a lab rat, go right ahead, not me.

This drug has been in use since 1955 in the US. Anybody with this virus right now should take this. Most with common sense would.

Since 1955 as a treatment for malaria.

Then tell me, why aren't all doctors across the country prescribing this covid-19 wonder drug? Let me guess, either none of them have "common sense" or they are all members of the deep state trying to harm trump's reelection.

This is used routinely by rheumatolgists for treating arthritis. It is hardly a risky drug. It is marketed under the name Plaquenil. Read the link below from the Arthritis foundation.

"...the sudden high demand comes from people and clinics that want to use hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 prevention or treatment, although the drug is not approved for either indication, and there is limited evidence to support its use in COVID-19. Researchers are preparing to launch rigorous studies of its safety and effectiveness. Despite that, people and clinicians are putting their hope in hydroxychloroquine (and chloroquine, a closely related drug). "

In other words, they are prescribing it. Some don't want it to be the answer for obvious reasons.

Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) Shortage Causing Concern | Arthritis Foundation

TDS morons won't do anything unless Adolph Schiffler tells them to do it.

You're calling the rest of the world "morons" for refusing to use an untested and dangerous drug, on the advice of a failed economist and a realty TV show host, and which the DOCTORS and INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALISTS on staff are advising against.

That is cult of personality at its finest.

you are totally FOS. The drug has been around for over 50 years and has been tested extensively. It is used on malaria and lupus and works. Calling it an untested and dangerous drug is just plain ignorant.

the real reason the dems and their funders in big pharma are fighting it is because it is available and CHBEAP. so no new patents for the drug companies and no obscene profits, and no massive funding flowing from pharma to the dems.

Wake the fuck up, thats what is really going on here.

It is untested for THIS use. Just like you shouldn't take heart medication for heartburn, you don't take a malaria drug for COVID. It has to be tested to ensure the drug doesn't act negatively with the symptoms or other treatments.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful but "try it, what have you got to lose" is irresponsible and stupid. What you "have to lose" is your life. That'd just be "Survival of the fittest" though and you support that right?

Untested for this use? I've seen articles linked all over this forum that show thousands of people have taken this drug for covid and the drug worked. Lefties are fighting this drug for partisan reasons, but they are on the losing side of this one.

Nobody is "fighting" it. Everyone hopes it will work. It has to be tested first. Trump is being irresponsible as usual in his rush to " open America back up".

Go slow to go fast.

People are dying today as I type this. If this drug can save some of them, they should be allowed to use it if recommended by their doctor.

the side affects are well known, it has been around for over 50 years and has gone generic. And thats the real reason the dems are fighting it, their big pharma funders cannot make billions off of a generic drug.

It's less than that. Let's say this combo drug is found to be very effective for half of the victims. It's something the President promoted. Medical experts conclude our problem severely decrease because of these combination drugs, and then the President gets all the credit.

It's already problematic for them. A state rep out of Michigan gave credit to the President for saving her life with these medication, and she's a Democrat. She said she would have never known about it if she wasn't so politically involved.

Yes, they want it to fail because if it succeeds it may help Trump in the election. The asshole dems would sacrifice millions of americans if they thought that would put them in power.

 

[colfax_m]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

Oh. So it’s a hoax, is that what you’re saying?

Man, when you guys get on a talking point, it’s everywhere in an instant. Y’all really are a cohesive group of thinkers.

neither Trump or anyone else has ever called the virus a hoax STOP LYING ABOUT THIS.

What was and is a hoax is the dems attempts to use the virus as a political weapon, The dems don't give a shit about YOU or any american citizen. All they want is power to ram their socialist bullshit up our collective asses. Wake the fuck up, moron.

And yet here you are trying to claim the mortality numbers for COVID are false, which is by definition a hoax.

You got this backwards. Trump and a lot of Republicans don’t care about you. They care about money, power and getting re-elected. That’s why they’re so desperate to make you think the virus is no big deal. So that way people go back to work, risking their health, to make them more money. Trump only cares about the virus because it’s a threat to his re-election. He was told again and again how bad this was going to be but kept publicly denying it.

 

[basquebromance]

"Back then, they recall, Navarro’s temper and ego often proved to be his undoing in campaigns where he literally stood alongside Hillary Clinton, railed against then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich as the personification of political evil and positioned himself as a “strong environmentalist and a progressive on social issues such as choice, gay rights, and religious freedom.’’

Larry Remer, a veteran Democratic political consultant who ran two of Navarro’s campaigns, describes his former client as “the biggest asshole I’ve ever known.’’

Navarro dismissed the GOP as aligned to an “every man for himself” approach, at one point arguing that instead, “we ought to progressively tax the rich to help everybody else.”

“It makes you wonder, because some people see life as a Broadway play...and they’re just playing everybody,’’ says Mulholland. “Peter may be that person...People do strange things to advance themselves.”

“Navarro’s profile in California was as a radical liberal,’’ says veteran California GOP strategist Rob Stutzman, former adviser to Schwarzenegger. “1 of the reasons he never caught on or got traction was that he was almost like a Ron Paul-type character on the left."

“We all know Peter Navarro in San Diego,” Nehring said in the deleted tweet. “He ran for office four times as a Democrat, each time moving around the county. He was defeated every time.”

Navarro’s temperament and penchant for over-the-top political comments were his undoing in the often-fractious campaigns, says Remer. "

Navarro left a trail of political wreckage in California

As a candidate, the Trump trade adviser feuding with Fauci was known for his combative ways.

www.politico.com

 

[Redfish]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

Oh. So it’s a hoax, is that what you’re saying?

Man, when you guys get on a talking point, it’s everywhere in an instant. Y’all really are a cohesive group of thinkers.

neither Trump or anyone else has ever called the virus a hoax STOP LYING ABOUT THIS.

What was and is a hoax is the dems attempts to use the virus as a political weapon, The dems don't give a shit about YOU or any american citizen. All they want is power to ram their socialist bullshit up our collective asses. Wake the fuck up, moron.

And yet here you are trying to claim the mortality numbers for COVID are false, which is by definition a hoax.

You got this backwards. Trump and a lot of Republicans don’t care about you. They care about money, power and getting re-elected. That’s why they’re so desperate to make you think the virus is no big deal. So that way people go back to work, risking their health, to make them more money. Trump only cares about the virus because it’s a threat to his re-election. He was told again and again how bad this was going to be but kept publicly denying it.

except that nothing in your post is true. What is true is that if the economy remains shut down much longer the number of deaths from other causes like suicide and depression will skyrocket. But we get it, thats what you libs want so you can blame it on Trump and put senile old creepy Joe in office, then kick him out and replace him with one of your female socialists.

You are much too obvious with all of this.

As to Trump and money, he has more than he and his family will ever need-------------by the way, so does Pelosi. Soooooooooooooooooooo pot meet kettle.

I didn't say the mortality numbers were false, only that we don't know what the real covid count is because of the way the death certs are prepared. Since you claim to work in medicine, you should know that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

Oh. So it’s a hoax, is that what you’re saying?

Man, when you guys get on a talking point, it’s everywhere in an instant. Y’all really are a cohesive group of thinkers.

neither Trump or anyone else has ever called the virus a hoax STOP LYING ABOUT THIS.

What was and is a hoax is the dems attempts to use the virus as a political weapon, The dems don't give a shit about YOU or any american citizen. All they want is power to ram their socialist bullshit up our collective asses. Wake the fuck up, moron.

And yet here you are trying to claim the mortality numbers for COVID are false, which is by definition a hoax.

You got this backwards. Trump and a lot of Republicans don’t care about you. They care about money, power and getting re-elected. That’s why they’re so desperate to make you think the virus is no big deal. So that way people go back to work, risking their health, to make them more money. Trump only cares about the virus because it’s a threat to his re-election. He was told again and again how bad this was going to be but kept publicly denying it.

Nobody knew how bad this was going to be. That's why over 180 countries are having to deal with it right now. This will have no impact on the next presidential election. Anybody with half a brain cell knows this was out of the Presidents hands.

Yes, the President does want people to go back to work, but not prematurely. He's going to take the recommendations of the experts. He needs to address two things, one of course is this virus, and two is the economy. The longer we keep killing our economy, the harder it will be to get it back on track. Some jobs and companies may never come back.

 

[colfax_m]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

Oh. So it’s a hoax, is that what you’re saying?

Man, when you guys get on a talking point, it’s everywhere in an instant. Y’all really are a cohesive group of thinkers.

neither Trump or anyone else has ever called the virus a hoax STOP LYING ABOUT THIS.

What was and is a hoax is the dems attempts to use the virus as a political weapon, The dems don't give a shit about YOU or any american citizen. All they want is power to ram their socialist bullshit up our collective asses. Wake the fuck up, moron.

And yet here you are trying to claim the mortality numbers for COVID are false, which is by definition a hoax.

You got this backwards. Trump and a lot of Republicans don’t care about you. They care about money, power and getting re-elected. That’s why they’re so desperate to make you think the virus is no big deal. So that way people go back to work, risking their health, to make them more money. Trump only cares about the virus because it’s a threat to his re-election. He was told again and again how bad this was going to be but kept publicly denying it.

except that nothing in your post is true. What is true is that if the economy remains shut down much longer the number of deaths from other causes like suicide and depression will skyrocket. But we get it, thats what you libs want so you can blame it on Trump and put senile old creepy Joe in office, then kick him out and replace him with one of your female socialists.

You are much too obvious with all of this.

As to Trump and money, he has more than he and his family will ever need-------------by the way, so does Pelosi. Soooooooooooooooooooo pot meet kettle.

I didn't say the mortality numbers were false, only that we don't know what the real covid count is because of the way the death certs are prepared. Since you claim to work in medicine, you should know that.

Its entirely true. Trump pretended he had this all under control and he was a great savior until the stock market called his bullshit. At that point it was time to find a scapegoat to blame. There’s been a lot of scapegoats.

The latest one is claiming the COVID deaths aren’t really deaths. You stay up to date with your talking points so you know what’s been disseminated through the group think. They’re trying to claim that people aren’t really dying from COVID, but they just happen to have COVID when they die of something else. When someone has a stable cardiac conditions that are exacerbated by an acute illness, it is the acute illness which causes the death. You think medical professionals can’t tell the difference? We can. It’s not that hard.

Trump cares more about his money than anything else. His entire identity is built around it. But I didn’t say he was the one out for money. He wants to be re-elected. He knows that COVID is a bigger threat to his re-election than anything else. Which is why you see him desperately trying to rewrite history, to downplay, to obfuscate and to do anything but take responsibility for it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump cares more about his money than anything else. His entire identity is built around it. But I didn’t say he was the one out for money. He wants to be re-elected. He knows that COVID is a bigger threat to his re-election than anything else. Which is why you see him desperately trying to rewrite history, to downplay, to obfuscate and to do anything but take responsibility for it.

You bet cha. Trump should take responsibility for a worldwide pandemic. We know DumBama would have.

 

[colfax_m]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

Oh. So it’s a hoax, is that what you’re saying?

Man, when you guys get on a talking point, it’s everywhere in an instant. Y’all really are a cohesive group of thinkers.

neither Trump or anyone else has ever called the virus a hoax STOP LYING ABOUT THIS.

What was and is a hoax is the dems attempts to use the virus as a political weapon, The dems don't give a shit about YOU or any american citizen. All they want is power to ram their socialist bullshit up our collective asses. Wake the fuck up, moron.

And yet here you are trying to claim the mortality numbers for COVID are false, which is by definition a hoax.

You got this backwards. Trump and a lot of Republicans don’t care about you. They care about money, power and getting re-elected. That’s why they’re so desperate to make you think the virus is no big deal. So that way people go back to work, risking their health, to make them more money. Trump only cares about the virus because it’s a threat to his re-election. He was told again and again how bad this was going to be but kept publicly denying it.

Nobody knew how bad this was going to be. That's why over 180 countries are having to deal with it right now. This will have no impact on the next presidential election. Anybody with half a brain cell knows this was out of the Presidents hands.

Yes, the President does want people to go back to work, but not prematurely. He's going to take the recommendations of the experts. He needs to address two things, one of course is this virus, and two is the economy. The longer we keep killing our economy, the harder it will be to get it back on track. Some jobs and companies may never come back.

And yet memos in early January were circulating talking about how bad it was going to be. And when Dems were starting to talk about how bad it could get, they were ridiculed by this administration as alarmist, panicking and contributing to a hoax for not accepting Trump’s assurance that it was “totally under control”.

 

[colfax_m]

Trump cares more about his money than anything else. His entire identity is built around it. But I didn’t say he was the one out for money. He wants to be re-elected. He knows that COVID is a bigger threat to his re-election than anything else. Which is why you see him desperately trying to rewrite history, to downplay, to obfuscate and to do anything but take responsibility for it.

You bet cha. Trump should take responsibility for a worldwide pandemic. We know DumBama would have.

Too late. Trump by his own words demonstrated who should be held accountable:

The Rank Hypocrisy of Trump’s Ebola Tweets

Five years ago, the doctor Kent Brantly was evacuated back to the U.S. after being infected with Ebola—against the wishes of the man who is now president.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

Oh. So it’s a hoax, is that what you’re saying?

Man, when you guys get on a talking point, it’s everywhere in an instant. Y’all really are a cohesive group of thinkers.

neither Trump or anyone else has ever called the virus a hoax STOP LYING ABOUT THIS.

What was and is a hoax is the dems attempts to use the virus as a political weapon, The dems don't give a shit about YOU or any american citizen. All they want is power to ram their socialist bullshit up our collective asses. Wake the fuck up, moron.

And yet here you are trying to claim the mortality numbers for COVID are false, which is by definition a hoax.

You got this backwards. Trump and a lot of Republicans don’t care about you. They care about money, power and getting re-elected. That’s why they’re so desperate to make you think the virus is no big deal. So that way people go back to work, risking their health, to make them more money. Trump only cares about the virus because it’s a threat to his re-election. He was told again and again how bad this was going to be but kept publicly denying it.

Nobody knew how bad this was going to be. That's why over 180 countries are having to deal with it right now. This will have no impact on the next presidential election. Anybody with half a brain cell knows this was out of the Presidents hands.

Yes, the President does want people to go back to work, but not prematurely. He's going to take the recommendations of the experts. He needs to address two things, one of course is this virus, and two is the economy. The longer we keep killing our economy, the harder it will be to get it back on track. Some jobs and companies may never come back.

And yet memos in early January were circulating talking about how bad it was going to be. And when Dems were starting to talk about how bad it could get, they were ridiculed by this administration as alarmist, panicking and contributing to a hoax for not accepting Trump’s assurance that it was “totally under control”.

Nobody thought it was a big deal. The President, the Democrats in Congress, the WHO, the Governors, nobody. Nobody could have seen anything like this coming. It was like 911.

The President is now withholding funds from the WHO for their part in misleading the world. China still isn't being honest with us, and they are going to start all over again by opening up Wuhan and the wet markets that go along with it.

 

[byhisello99]

Side effects from hydroxychloroquine are really very minimal. It’s used as first line in Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis specifically because it’s so benign.

The people listing what is on the packet insert really don’t know what they’re talking about.

Several years ago my throat began to swell up. It got a little difficult to breathe and swallow. About 2:00 am I went to the emergency room, and they took me right away. They started an IV on me. When the doctor came in, he told me the swelling in my throat was serious, and caused by my high blood pressure medication. I told the doctor I have been taking that medication for a couple of years. He told me that is irrelevant.

They cleaned me out, he instructed me never to take the medication again, and consult my doctor for a replacement.

A few weeks later, I looked into the drug. Other people experienced what I did. Some have died from being suffocated to death. They still sell that drug on the market today.

Angioedema is not extremely uncommon with that drug and probably way over reported. Deaths from it are extremely uncommon. The thing Is there is a significant mortality benefit from using that drug so benefits outweigh risks.

In terms of hydroxychloroqine, the benefits are uncertain. Let’s say it prevents every single death from COVID. Since mortality is only 1%, you have to treat 100 patients just to save one life. In terms of medicine, that’s called number needed to treat, and 100 is up there, although not extremely high. The benefit is probably pretty low. The risks are also low.

In the grand scheme of things, big picture stuff, this is really just not very relevant. If it works, or doesn’t work, this is really not that important.

From what I understand, the symptoms of this thing can be torturous. So even if somebody could survive without it, the drug itself might make people much more comfortable until they are over it. If so, that in itself would be worth using it.

Again, I'd rather endure some discomfort than permanent kidney damage or blindness. I endured 28 hours of labour with no pain meds (they reduced the effectiveness of the contractions), I can do torturous. I have experience.

Good for you, but some people can't. Furthermore it makes no sense to allow people to suffer like that if they don't have to because of politics, which this is really all about.

No Ray. This is not all about politics. This is about science. What Trump is doing is giving false hope. It's selling snake oil to frightened and desperate people. It would not suprise me one bit if the company which manufactures this drug is owned by friends of Donald Trump.

I have read every report I could find on this drug and I read nothing, that leads me to believe this drug is any kind of cure for this virus. As an asthmatic, I'll look at everything out there, and I've taken drugs, knowing that it has probably done real damage, but on the other hand, I'd be dead without it. There is nothing that I've seen that would give me any real hope on this one.

This is no different than Trump telling you that one day the virus will disappear, like magic. He desperately wants a magic pill to make it all go away, and that's not going to happen.

It's not about politics? Were you laughing or drinking when you wrote that????

Yes, it is about politics. That's why everybody on the right here is for the use of it and everybody on the left against it. Like I said, if Trump was against allowing the use of it for COVID, and Piglosi was for it, everybody here on the left would be singing the praises of hydroxychloroquine. Why? Because if it does work well, she'd be getting the credit for it, and Trump would look like the fool.

It's like the border wall. The left says they're against it because it won't work, when in reality, they are afraid it will work. It's the same thing with the treatment that the President supports.

The real partisan divide is over whether it actually works or not. The right is claiming it’s proven and effective. Trump is calling it the biggest game changer in the history of medicine.

The argument between Navarro and Fauci was that Fauci is saying don’t claim it works before we know it. What Fauci doesn’t understand is that Trump’s supporters won’t care either way. They’ve decided it works and no evidence is going to change that. Fauci doesn’t live in that world. He doesn’t understand how it works.

In some controlled tests it has worked. It should be available and the decision to use or not should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.

This argument is not about the drug, its about politics and money.

If it works it makes Trump look good, if it works there is not big payday for big pharma because its generic and cheap.

It is available, well, actually it’s in short supply so it needs to be rationed for severe cases. There is no controlled data that demonstrates effectiveness. The quality of the data is extremely poor at this time.

No one with any medical knowledge would say it’s proven to work. The political piece is Trump supporters wanting a “win” and will adhere to anything to be able to claim such.

nothing in your post is true. It is available in large quantities, there have been controlled verified studies proving that it works. Doctors are using it and it is saving lives.

its not about a political win, you asshole. its about saving lives and beating the virus.

I’m going from first hand knowledge. Are you?

what exactly is your first hand knowledge?

I work in hospital systems. Do you have first hand knowledge?

I have full access to everything that has been available by all media outlets, domestic and foreign.

Have you seen the drug used? you claim first hand knowledge regarding the drug, what is it?

The media is awful at reporting medical and scientific information. They aren’t trained for it. Furthermore, some media is highly motivated to parrot what Trump is saying. If Trump wants you to believe the drug works, they’re damn well going to toe the line.

My hospital system and state are experiencing shortages of Plaquenil. Our experience has been quite mixed. It is not a miracle.

There are reports of it curing people who were dying. the state rep from Michigan, and Dr Segal's 96 your old father, to name just two.

but the decision to use it should be made by you and your doctor, not the media or some clown crew of politicians.

All Trump has ever said is that he is hopeful that it can save lives, what do you find objectionable about that?

The “reports” you’ve cited are useless. There’s no way to tell if the cited individuals improved because they got the medication of if they would have improved because that’s what happens to most people regardless.

He’s made a lot of claims going well beyond saying he hopes it’ll help.

Nope, thats all he has ever said. But lets turn your question around, how many people died WITH covid and how many died due to covid? there is absolutely no way to know. If the dead person tested positive for covid that is listed as the cause of death, whereas the real reason may very well have been cancer, diabetes, heart attack, lung disease, or something else

its sick that the media and the dems are trying to use this medical issue as a campaign issue at the expense of thousands of american lives.

Oh. So it’s a hoax, is that what you’re saying?

Man, when you guys get on a talking point, it’s everywhere in an instant. Y’all really are a cohesive group of thinkers.

No one has tried to call this a hoax. Please try to respond to what was written instead of to what you think the person you want the writer to be meant to write. It's a whole lot easier the first way.

The drug short-circuits an immune response known as a cytokine storm. This fills the lungs with dead virus and other crap that require a ventilator to survive. It also short-circuits a specific type of inflammation that stiffens otherwise elastic tissue, such as the walls of the lungs, so they can expand and contract. Death rate will be low; we can lower ICU admissions with hydroxychloroquine. That's the real benefit.

The much touted "dangers" include two that should get attention: retinopathy and interruption of heart rhythm. Retinopathy occurs in a negligible percent of people on long-term use, way below one percent. It is so slow that standard of care for rheumatologists, who prescribe the drug every day, tell patients to see an ophthalmologist in six months. The heart rhythm interruption is less than two .percent of long-term users, according to cardiologists. Every cardiologist I know has concluded that the benefits far outweigh the gains. The information on risks and percentages is public and in the files of the FDA.