Healthcare in the US is a privilege

[dblack]

Do you mean to say that the men of 1798 were socialists?

No. I mean that government is always looking to expand its scope and claim more power. It's the nature of the institution.

What exactly is socialism in your book? How do you define it?

Most generally, it's the attempt to transfer economic power from the people to the government.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Yeah. They should stop doing that.

Of course health care is a privilege.

It shouldn't be.

Every service that someone else provides you is a privilege. Doctors and nurses aren't your personal slaves.

They are to the for-profit private equity scumbags.

They serve you at their discretion, usually for money. You can hide that behind a bunch of bullshit politics, but that is ALWAYS the case.

Pay or die.

 

[PeterPilot]

No. I mean that government is always looking to expand its scope and claim more power. It's the nature of the institution.

Most generally, it's the attempt to transfer economic power from the people to the government.

I understand your first claim, but disagree with your definition of socialism.

 

[dblack]

It shouldn't be.

How can it not be? Who must provide you with this health care? How much are you owed??

 

[dblack]

I understand your first claim, but disagree with your definition of socialism.

Ok. I'm also good with the standard dictionary definition. But I'm not really interested in equivocating on terms. It's the principles that matter.

 

[Mac-7]

No. I mean that government is always looking to expand its scope and claim more power. It's the nature of the institution.

Most generally, it's the attempt to transfer economic power from the people to the government.

The marxist definition of Socialism is from each according to ability, to each according to need

And it requires public ownership of the means of production

 

[PeterPilot]

How can it not be? Who must provide you with this health care? How much are you owed??

Enjoying the conversation here. How do you interpret the facts regarding the Constitutional establishment of the Post Office including roads to accommodate it?

Considering that the Post Office incorporation serves all the people in communicating with others, and that while the government by law must provide that service even as the users pay money in the form of stamps and fees, I see it as a type of socialism, service and benefits for all of society. Similar to the way our fire departments work. Everybody throws in some money, the government runs it, and everybody receives a benefit.

 

[PeterPilot]

The marxist definition of Socialism is from each according to ability, to each according to need

And it requires public ownership of the means of production

My 1984 Webster defines socialism: "A social system in which the producers possess political power and the means of producing and distributing goods."

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

How can it not be? Who must provide you with this health care?

Doctors and nurses.

How much are you owed??

Yeah, those doctors and nurses really need to be checking peoples wallets.
Just to see if they're "Worthy" of saving.

 

[dblack]

Enjoying the conversation here. How do you interpret the facts regarding the Constitutional establishment of the Post Office including roads to accommodate it?

I'm not sure what you mean. The Constitution specifically called out postal service as a government responsibility. "The roads to accommodate it" is a new one. A slippery slope if I've ever heard one: what else is required to accommodate it? Meals for the drivers? Their families and friends, etc? Housing?

Considering that the Post Office incorporation serves all the people in communicating with others, and that while the government by law must provide that service even as the users pay money in the form of stamps and fees, I see it as a type of socialism, service and benefits for all of society.

Ok. If your point is that we've already got some socialism, I totally agree. The question is whether we want more, and where it would lead us.

 

[dblack]

Doctors and nurses.

Ahh... the aforementioned "scumbags".

And if they refuse?

 

[Mac-7]

My 1984 Webster defines socialism: "A social system in which the producers possess political power and the means of producing and distributing goods."

Thats not what Websters says now

Definition of SOCIALISM

any of various egalitarian economic and political theories or movements advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods; a system of society or of group living in which there is no private property… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

It says socialism involves state ownership

 

[PeterPilot]

I'm not sure what you mean. The Constitution specifically called out postal service as a government responsibility. "The roads to accommodate it" is a new one. A slippery slope if I've ever heard one: what is required to accommodate it? Meals for the drivers? Their families and friends, etc? Housing?

Ok. If your point is that we've already got some socialism, I totally agree. The question is whether we want more, and where it would lead us.

Article I Section 8: Congress shall have the power.....To establish Post offices and Post roads.

 

[dblack]

Article I Section 8: Congress shall have the power.....To establish Post offices and Post roads.

Yep. That's what I was referring to: "The Constitution specifically called out postal service as a government responsibility."

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

I'm not sure what you mean. The Constitution specifically called out postal service as a government responsibility. "The roads to accommodate it" is a new one.

No it isn't.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 7.

A slippery slope if I've ever heard one: what is required to accommodate it? Meals for the drivers? Their families and friends, etc? Housing?

Ok. If your point is that we've already got some socialism, I totally agree. The question is whether we want more, and where it would lead us.

Prosperity.

 

[PeterPilot]

Thats not what Websters says now

Definition of SOCIALISM

any of various egalitarian economic and political theories or movements advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods; a system of society or of group living in which there is no private property… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

It says socialism involves state ownership

Somewhat different, but some similar or identical pieces. Funny how words and concepts evolve, eh? Funny how books written by men can change meanings, for better or for worse. Imagine a book that says one race of people is superior to all others.

 

[dblack]

Funny how words and concepts evolve, eh?

Not really. Especially when the "evolution" of these terms is Orwellian wordsmithing.

 

[PeterPilot]

Not really. Especially when the "evolution" of these terms is Orwellian wordsmithing.

Yes, that's the point--wordsmithing. Semantics. Propaganda. Manipulating the perceptions of the readers. Advancing an agenda OTHER THAN truth.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Ahh... the aforementioned "scumbags".

WOW.

" for-profit private equity scumbags".
Doctors and nurses are invested in private equity?

And if they refuse?

Not all, are like Trump.

 

[Ringo]

Under capitalism, the purpose of any occupation is profit. Including medicine. Profit is the most important thing, and therefore, under capitalism, the absence of sick people is unprofitable. More sick people equals more profit.

Under socialism, the goal isn't profit. The goal is to improve human living conditions economically and spiritually. Illness hinders this. And since medicine isn't private, the socialist state organizes a system in which, starting from birth, people receive medical services in all possible forms, from vaccinations to sanatoriums for the sick. Socialism doesn't benefit from illness, unlike capitalism.

I always laugh at conservatives' complaints that social medicine will destroy the US economy. But that's only because a capitalist medical system is impossible without massive theft. The same goes for weapons production. Want decent medicine and no wars? Fight for socialism.