Health Insurance is the Problem, Not The Answer

The Rabbi

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The availability of insurance makes goods and service appear to be "free", thus adding to inflation in those areas.
Only the government could fail to understand that people spend their own money more wisely than they spend other people's money.
Health Care's Third-Party Spending Trap - Reason.com

Many doctors—myself included— will gladly substantially discount their fees in return for up-front payments from people who pay directly for their health care. Hospitals, ambulatory surgical centers, and urgent care clinics do the same. Why shouldn’t they? They don’t have to pay an army of staff to fill reams of forms and wait weeks to months to collect payment from an insurance company that sometimes is lower than what they get from their direct-pay patients.

Yet most of these same providers have much higher “list prices”—the official prices they list publicly—which are used to negotiate compensation contracts with health insurance companies and other third party payers
More at the source.
 

Freemason9

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The availability of insurance makes goods and service appear to be "free", thus adding to inflation in those areas.
Only the government could fail to understand that people spend their own money more wisely than they spend other people's money.
Health Care's Third-Party Spending Trap - Reason.com

Many doctors—myself included— will gladly substantially discount their fees in return for up-front payments from people who pay directly for their health care. Hospitals, ambulatory surgical centers, and urgent care clinics do the same. Why shouldn’t they? They don’t have to pay an army of staff to fill reams of forms and wait weeks to months to collect payment from an insurance company that sometimes is lower than what they get from their direct-pay patients.

Yet most of these same providers have much higher “list prices”—the official prices they list publicly—which are used to negotiate compensation contracts with health insurance companies and other third party payers
More at the source.
Although I largely agree with the gist of this, you should understand that the "doctor" cited in the article is hardly representative of the health care industry. That whole industry--and doctors in particular--have profited handsomely from the concealed costs of the insurance industry scam, and they are the reason it still exists (and why we still do not have real national healthcare for Americans).

Healthcare industry professionals are the reason for the extraordinary cost of American healthcare.
 

DiamondDave

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Healthcare and health insurance got out of control the first times that the fed started sticking its nose into it (where it never belonged) 40+ years ago... and the more they regulate, subsidize, get involved, provide, etc, the worse it gets
 

francoHFW

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O-care will finally control Big Health's/Insurance's ridiculous costs and scams, and will be added to FOREVER...too bad for them and their Pub cronies, dupes.
 
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ron4342

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The availability of insurance makes goods and service appear to be "free", thus adding to inflation in those areas.
Only the government could fail to understand that people spend their own money more wisely than they spend other people's money.
Health Care's Third-Party Spending Trap - Reason.com

Many doctors—myself included— will gladly substantially discount their fees in return for up-front payments from people who pay directly for their health care. Hospitals, ambulatory surgical centers, and urgent care clinics do the same. Why shouldn’t they? They don’t have to pay an army of staff to fill reams of forms and wait weeks to months to collect payment from an insurance company that sometimes is lower than what they get from their direct-pay patients.

Yet most of these same providers have much higher “list prices”—the official prices they list publicly—which are used to negotiate compensation contracts with health insurance companies and other third party payers
More at the source.
The number one reason for personal bankrupcy is medical bills. Almost 2,000,000 people are forced to file for bankrupcy due to medical bills each year. Explain how getting rid of health insurance will reduce the number of people forced to declare bankrupcy for medical reasons.
 

RDD_1210

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Healthcare and health insurance got out of control the first times that the fed started sticking its nose into it (where it never belonged) 40+ years ago... and the more they regulate, subsidize, get involved, provide, etc, the worse it gets
Yet again your opinion is not based on reality. Try again.
 

RDD_1210

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The availability of insurance makes goods and service appear to be "free", thus adding to inflation in those areas.
Only the government could fail to understand that people spend their own money more wisely than they spend other people's money.
Health Care's Third-Party Spending Trap - Reason.com

Many doctors—myself included— will gladly substantially discount their fees in return for up-front payments from people who pay directly for their health care. Hospitals, ambulatory surgical centers, and urgent care clinics do the same. Why shouldn’t they? They don’t have to pay an army of staff to fill reams of forms and wait weeks to months to collect payment from an insurance company that sometimes is lower than what they get from their direct-pay patients.

Yet most of these same providers have much higher “list prices”—the official prices they list publicly—which are used to negotiate compensation contracts with health insurance companies and other third party payers
More at the source.
Right, health insurance companies offer very little in the healthcare equation except to inflate prices. They need to be removed from the equation completely.

I guess you support a single payer model that cuts out profit driven health insurance companies all together.
 

JakeStarkey

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Health Insurance is the Problem, Not The Answer should read "The health insurance industry is the problem, not the answer.
 

Defiant1

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The only way to correct healthcare costs and still maintain a high level of competent care is to ban health insurance.
 

kkline99

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If Washington was in charge of the Sahara desert, within five years there would be a shortage of sand. Our government just can't do much of anything correctly. They would mess up gravity if they could.
 

DiamondDave

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O-care will finally control Big Health's/Insurance's ridiculous costs and scams, and will be added to FOREVER...too bad for them and their Pub cronies, dupes.

Government intervention and meddling is what drove the price up in the first place... when you used to know the prices offered by doctors, paid for your own preventative care, saw actual medical bills all was much better.... instead of just paying a fee to an insurance company who then makes back room agreements with health providers etc, all at the hand of government interference, THIS is when it started going bad.. and you and your ilk want MORE government involvement...

idiots
 
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DiamondDave

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Healthcare and health insurance got out of control the first times that the fed started sticking its nose into it (where it never belonged) 40+ years ago... and the more they regulate, subsidize, get involved, provide, etc, the worse it gets
Yet again your opinion is not based on reality. Try again.
Again... my opinion is based on what transpired and when... federal government involvement in health care, health insurance, education, poverty relief, etc has not led to the improvement of anything.. nor have the problems been eliminated.. they have been INCREASED...
 

boedicca

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The problem with health insurance is that it is catasrophic insurance combined with a service contract for routine care (which gets overused and abused).

And ObamaCare just supersizes the problem.
 

DiamondDave

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The problem with health insurance is that it is catasrophic insurance combined with a service contract for routine care (which gets overused and abused).

And ObamaCare just supersizes the problem.

Indeed.. as stated.. when is the last time any of these dolts actually knew the charges for a complete medical service?? They just rely on old insurance or old government... there is no shopping around.. there is no competition.. and they wonder WHY the cost of things in the medical field have gone up??
 

RDD_1210

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Healthcare and health insurance got out of control the first times that the fed started sticking its nose into it (where it never belonged) 40+ years ago... and the more they regulate, subsidize, get involved, provide, etc, the worse it gets
Yet again your opinion is not based on reality. Try again.
Again... my opinion is based on what transpired and when... federal government involvement in health care, health insurance, education, poverty relief, etc has not led to the improvement of anything.. nor have the problems been eliminated.. they have been INCREASED...
No, no improvement at all. So seniors who have Medicare now are worse off than before when they had to fend for themselves. Solid analysis.

Serious question. Do you ever get tired of spewing bullshit out of your face day after day?
 

DiamondDave

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Yet again your opinion is not based on reality. Try again.
Again... my opinion is based on what transpired and when... federal government involvement in health care, health insurance, education, poverty relief, etc has not led to the improvement of anything.. nor have the problems been eliminated.. they have been INCREASED...
No, no improvement at all. So seniors who have Medicare now are worse off than before when they had to fend for themselves. Solid analysis.

Serious question. Do you ever get tired of spewing bullshit out of your face day after day?
Yes.. in terms of amount paid .vs what is received... they are worse off than if they would have used the same money, joined groups of other seniors to buy into a group insurance plan, shopped around, knew what they were paying, etc... I watch my grandmother shell out hundreds and hundreds and hundreds each and every month to the god awful medicare.. they don't know the actual cost of anything.. they just write checks like some ghetto punk trying to make it rain in a strip club..

They would be MUCH better off if I would be able to put her as a dependent on a plan I could shop for in a system without the restrictions and regulations... being able to pay for preventative care from a doctor and using insurance for emergency and catastrophic care... seeing if the plan negotiated by my HOA is better than the one negotiated by my employer or better than the one negotiated by a group of military vets or better than the one negotiated by the Mickey Mouse club etc etc etc... having law where it NEEDS to be and SHOULD be, requiring full disclosure of charges, ensuring that people cannot be refused as customers if they are willing to pay, allowing free trade of the services across state lines, and bringing about tort reform...

You sir, are a winger, an idiot, and spew more bullshit than almost anyone (nobody can match a Black_Label or rdummy)
 

NYcarbineer

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The availability of insurance makes goods and service appear to be "free", thus adding to inflation in those areas.
Only the government could fail to understand that people spend their own money more wisely than they spend other people's money.
Health Care's Third-Party Spending Trap - Reason.com

Many doctors—myself included— will gladly substantially discount their fees in return for up-front payments from people who pay directly for their health care. Hospitals, ambulatory surgical centers, and urgent care clinics do the same. Why shouldn’t they? They don’t have to pay an army of staff to fill reams of forms and wait weeks to months to collect payment from an insurance company that sometimes is lower than what they get from their direct-pay patients.

Yet most of these same providers have much higher “list prices”—the official prices they list publicly—which are used to negotiate compensation contracts with health insurance companies and other third party payers
More at the source.
You're blaming the government because so many Americans have health insurance through their employers?
 

RDD_1210

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Again... my opinion is based on what transpired and when... federal government involvement in health care, health insurance, education, poverty relief, etc has not led to the improvement of anything.. nor have the problems been eliminated.. they have been INCREASED...
No, no improvement at all. So seniors who have Medicare now are worse off than before when they had to fend for themselves. Solid analysis.

Serious question. Do you ever get tired of spewing bullshit out of your face day after day?
Yes.. in terms of amount paid .vs what is received... they are worse off than if they would have used the same money, joined groups of other seniors to buy into a group insurance plan, shopped around, knew what they were paying, etc... I watch my grandmother shell out hundreds and hundreds and hundreds each and every month to the god awful medicare.. they don't know the actual cost of anything.. they just write checks like some ghetto punk trying to make it rain in a strip club..

They would be MUCH better off if I would be able to put her as a dependent on a plan I could shop for in a system without the restrictions and regulations... being able to pay for preventative care from a doctor and using insurance for emergency and catastrophic care... seeing if the plan negotiated by my HOA is better than the one negotiated by my employer or better than the one negotiated by a group of military vets or better than the one negotiated by the Mickey Mouse club etc etc etc... having law where it NEEDS to be and SHOULD be, requiring full disclosure of charges, ensuring that people cannot be refused as customers if they are willing to pay, allowing free trade of the services across state lines, and bringing about tort reform...

You sir, are a winger, an idiot, and spew more bullshit than almost anyone (nobody can match a Black_Label or rdummy)
HAHAHAHA, did you really just suggest that seniors should band together and shop for insurance together on the open market? Please tell me that's what you just said.

What profit driven insurance company in their right mind will give seniors insurance at any sort of affordable rate? Seniors are the biggest liability group and thus the most expensive to ensure. Nice idea genius. Holy fuck you literally doubled down on retarded.

Like I asked before. Do you ever get tired of just saying the dumbest shit possible??
 

NYcarbineer

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Again... my opinion is based on what transpired and when... federal government involvement in health care, health insurance, education, poverty relief, etc has not led to the improvement of anything.. nor have the problems been eliminated.. they have been INCREASED...
No, no improvement at all. So seniors who have Medicare now are worse off than before when they had to fend for themselves. Solid analysis.

Serious question. Do you ever get tired of spewing bullshit out of your face day after day?
Yes.. in terms of amount paid .vs what is received... they are worse off than if they would have used the same money, joined groups of other seniors to buy into a group insurance plan, shopped around, knew what they were paying, etc... I watch my grandmother shell out hundreds and hundreds and hundreds each and every month to the god awful medicare.. they don't know the actual cost of anything.. they just write checks like some ghetto punk trying to make it rain in a strip club..

They would be MUCH better off if I would be able to put her as a dependent on a plan I could shop for in a system without the restrictions and regulations... being able to pay for preventative care from a doctor and using insurance for emergency and catastrophic care... seeing if the plan negotiated by my HOA is better than the one negotiated by my employer or better than the one negotiated by a group of military vets or better than the one negotiated by the Mickey Mouse club etc etc etc... having law where it NEEDS to be and SHOULD be, requiring full disclosure of charges, ensuring that people cannot be refused as customers if they are willing to pay, allowing free trade of the services across state lines, and bringing about tort reform...

You sir, are a winger, an idiot, and spew more bullshit than almost anyone (nobody can match a Black_Label or rdummy)
People are prone to neglecting preventative care if they have to pay out of pocket for it.
 

NYcarbineer

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Healthcare and health insurance got out of control the first times that the fed started sticking its nose into it (where it never belonged) 40+ years ago... and the more they regulate, subsidize, get involved, provide, etc, the worse it gets
The best healthcare for the price, or one of the best, is in Japan's healthcare system. How much is the government involved there?
 

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